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✏️ Editing: vajiraco_wp_o5ebg.sql

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Now, it’s undergone a transformation in content focus and design with the introduction of Learning Pathways and a reimagined look.\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe class=\"youtube-player\" width=\"600\" height=\"338\" src=\"https://www.youtube.com/embed/D7K4GqTQAEE?version=3&#038;rel=1&#038;showsearch=0&#038;showinfo=1&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;fs=1&#038;hl=en-US&#038;autohide=2&#038;wmode=transparent\" allowfullscreen=\"true\" style=\"border:0;\" sandbox=\"allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-popups allow-presentation allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox\"></iframe>\n</div></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The WordPress.org redesign continues </h3>\n\n\n\nLearn WordPress is the latest section of WordPress.org to receive a design refresh, following other sections like the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/showcase/\">Showcase</a> and <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/\">Developer Resources</a>. 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It features a new navigation menu, eye-catching thumbnails, and search filters so you can explore and discover content quickly. The clearer and more structured layout helps you easily recognize the resources you need (courses, lessons, Online Workshops) based on your learning preferences. &nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Introducing Learning Pathways</h3>\n\n\n\nThis redesign also highlights a new approach to Learn WordPress content, emphasizing what learners engage with the most. The introduction of Learning Pathways lets you grow your WordPress skills progressively. You can start with beginner essentials and then work your way through more advanced concepts at your own speed. This method lets you build a solid understanding as you move through each course. 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This next phase of Learn WordPress is an exciting move toward bringing more people into WordPress, whether new users just getting started or established developers looking to add more skills to their toolbox.\n\n\n\nIf you want to propose a change or report an issue, please do so in the <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/Learn\">Learn GitHub repository</a>. If you love WordPress and want to contribute to making Learn WordPress an even greater resource, join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RW657Q\">#training</a> Slack channel. Want to make an immediate impact? 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href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\' class=\'mention\'>@joedolson</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen/\' class=\'mention\'>@joen</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/jominney/\' class=\'mention\'>@jominney</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/keithnoseworthy/\' class=\'mention\'>@keithnoseworthy</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/kel-dc/\' class=\'mention\'>@kel-dc</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/lada7042/\' class=\'mention\'>@lada7042</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurahartwigdesign/\' class=\'mention\'>@laurahartwigdesign</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\' class=\'mention\'>@laurlittle</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/markoserb/\' class=\'mention\'>@markoserb</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/mustakim5/\' class=\'mention\'>@mustakim5</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/nazmul111/\' class=\'mention\'>@nazmul111</a> <a 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href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/sakibsnaz/\' class=\'mention\'>@sakibsnaz</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/sfougnier/\' class=\'mention\'>@sfougnier</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/shsajalchowdhury/\' class=\'mention\'>@shsajalchowdhury</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/sierratr/\' class=\'mention\'>@sierratr</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/sumitsingh/\' class=\'mention\'>@sumitsingh</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/teuila_mau/\' class=\'mention\'>@teuila_mau</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/webtechpooja/\' class=\'mention\'>@webtechpooja</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/west7/\' class=\'mention\'>@west7</a> <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoonini/\' class=\'mention\'>@zoonini</a>\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17545\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"WordPress 6.6.1 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-1-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 23 Jul 2024 15:53:25 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17567\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:337:\"WordPress 6.6.1 is now available! This minor release features 7 bug fixes in Core and 9 bug fixes for the Block Editor. You can review a summary of the maintenance updates in this release by reading the Release Candidate announcement. WordPress 6.6.1 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be version 6.7 planned [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10:\"Tonya Mork\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5779:\"\nWordPress 6.6.1 is now available!\n\n\n\nThis minor release features <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;id=!61692&amp;milestone=6.6.1&amp;group=status&amp;col=id&amp;col=summary&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;col=component&amp;col=version&amp;col=keywords&amp;order=priority\">7 bug fixes in Core</a> and <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/61692#comment:4 \">9 bug fixes for the Block Editor</a>. You can review a summary of the maintenance updates in this release by reading the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/18/wordpress-6-6-1-rc1-is-now-available/\">Release Candidate announcement</a>.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6.1 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">version 6.7</a> planned for November 2024.\n\n\n\nIf you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.\n\n\n\nYou can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6.1.zip\">download WordPress 6.6.1 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”.\n\n\n\nFor more information on this release, please <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-6-1\">visit the HelpHub site</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\nThis release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella</a>.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6.1 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"//profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin&quot;\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw\">Aaron Robertshaw</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amitraj2203\">Amit Raj</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\">Akira Tachibana</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia\">Andrea Fercia</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong\">Andrew Serong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu\">annezazu</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ambrosiawt\">Art Smith</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgardner\">Brian Gardner</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena\">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbirdsong\">cbirdsong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/butterflymedia\">Ciprian</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarktbt\">Clark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01\">Courtney Robertson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp\">Daniel Richards</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell\">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32\">Dion Hulse</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix\">Ella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annubis\">Eric-Oliver Mächler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr\">Jarda Snajdr</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson\">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen\">Joen A.</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell\">Jon Surrell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurelfulford/\">laurelfulford</a><a>, </a><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mciampini\">Marco Ciampini</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot\">Mario Santos</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead\">Mark Howells-Mead</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27%20\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neotrope\">neotrope</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron\">Paul Biron</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly\">ramonopoly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/raquelandefeld\">Raquel</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad\">Riad Benguella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor\">Rich Tabor</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noisysocks\">Robert Anderson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/SergeyBiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code/\">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sourav08\">Sourav Pahwa</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt\">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sunil25393\">SunilPrajapati</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/up1512001\">up1512001</a>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\nTo get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C07BTF54N68\">#6-7-release-leads</a> channels. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17567\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"WP Briefing: Episode 84: A WordPress 6.6 Sneak Peek\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-84-a-wordpress-6-6-sneak-peek/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 22 Jul 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17539\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:256:\"Join WordPress Executive Director, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she offers an exclusive preview of the upcoming WordPress 6.6 release, accompanied by special guest Meher Bala, the release\'s coordinator. Don’t miss this opportunity for an insider’s look!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/WPB084.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27063:\"\nJoin WordPress Executive Director, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she offers an exclusive preview of the recently released WordPress 6.6, accompanied by special guest Meher Bala, the release&#8217;s coordinator. Don’t miss this opportunity for an insider’s look!\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\nHost:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a> Guest:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a> Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamatdayone/\">Adam Daly</a> Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a> Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 Download</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress &#8211; Core</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">WordPress Core Slack</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Small List of Big Things\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/07/04/first-time-attendees/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">First-Time Attendees: A Key Metric of Success for WordPress Events</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/04/25/monthly-online-docs-team-contributor-day-starts-april-2023/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Docs team holds an online Contributor Day</a>&nbsp;every fourth Tuesday.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reminder:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/online-workshops/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Online workshops</a>&nbsp;are live sessions where you can learn alongside other WordPress enthusiasts.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/media-corps/2024/07/03/recap-of-the-media-corps-briefing-on-wordpress-6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Recap of the Media Corps Briefing on WordPress 6.6</a>&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[00:00:00]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of some of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project and the community around it, as well as get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:40]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Last week, we released WordPress 6.6, and I had a chance to chat with a long-time contributor and member of the Release Squad about it.&nbsp;Today, I have with me Meher, and she was, well I guess I will let her tell us what she did with the release, but at the time of this recording, yesterday we had the WordPress 6.6 release, codenamed &#8216;Dorsey,&#8217; and so Meher, welcome to the WordPress Briefing.\n\n\n\n[00:01:05] Meher: Hi, thank you for inviting me. It&#8217;s nice to be here.\n\n\n\n[00:01:09]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do in the WordPress project, how long you&#8217;ve been contributing, and then the role that you played in our big, big mid-year release?\n\n\n\n[00:01:19] Meher: So my name is Meher. I&#8217;m a front-end developer. I&#8217;m also a CEO of KDC. I&#8217;m also a codable expert in WordPress. I started with contributing into the marketing field. Then, slowly, for 5.6, I got to be on the release squad, learned about training, about how the release goes, process happens. From that time onwards, I&#8217;ve been part of marketing or, basically, I&#8217;ve been part of the marketing team for all the releases. For 6.6, I picked to do the Release Coordinator, something different, something new, wanting to know what goes into it.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:02:03] Josepha: That is a big leap from like hanging out in marketing to going to be the Release Coordinator. Before we get into the release itself, just what made you think to yourself, I would like to do that? I would like to stand up and wrangle all of these contributors across the world. Make sure we get a release out?\n\n\n\n[00:02:20] Meher: I wanted to try something new. Like even in WordCamp, each role is different. So, even in the release, I wanted to try each different things. And like 5.6, I was in documentation. Then, I was in marketing. So then I got used to marketing, so I stick with my, no, I stuck with marketing. \n\n\n\n[00:02:39] Josepha: Yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:02:40] Meher: So this time, I want to try something different, and I want to see, you know, how easy was it to be a Release Coordinator because it&#8217;s a Release Coordinator, see, you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a like a big thing coordinating so many people so many different teams going on, working together, and so yeah, it was fun.\n\n\n\n[00:02:58] Josepha: Great. I&#8217;m glad that you found it fun. I always worry when people make big shifts. I&#8217;m like, did we put enough documentation to make it clear? Are they going to find it easy to get started or not? And I think you did a really great job with it. So congratulations, since that happened just yesterday, less than 24 hours ago.\n\n\n\n[00:03:16] Meher: Yes, less than 24 hours.\n\n\n\n[00:03:21] Josepha: Yeah, yeah. So, from your position as the Release Coordinator, what are the biggest, like, one or two features that you really were excited to see get in this release?\n\n\n\n[00:03:32] Meher: Oh, one of the biggest features was the style override patterns.\n\n\n\n[00:03:37] Josepha: Oh, yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:03:38] Meher: Which I found very useful because a lot of people are using patterns. So, you know, patterns override; if you wanna change something on a specific page, it&#8217;s really useful then just to, you know, recreate a second pattern and then to match up and all. And second, which I liked as a user, was the publish box on the post becoming very clear, very, you know, cluster-free, very minimalistic, and just so comfortable that a normal user will actually understand what is there instead of going to each dropdown and figuring out what needs to be done. So, for me, I think as a developer and user, these two are the fun features, which I like, which 6.5 had, so. There are many other features as well. These are the two great features.\n\n\n\n[00:04:28] Josepha: Yeah. I mean, I don&#8217;t think that anyone can argue about the importance of making things a little easier to see, a little easier to use. It&#8217;s been a little bit since WordPress was like fall into it easy to use. I feel like we have been the easiest of the robust CMS systems for like a long time. I know I said CMS systems. That&#8217;s like saying pin number. I know that the S in CMS is systems, but anyway, that notwithstanding, we&#8217;ve been the easiest of the complex solutions for a long time, and I think it&#8217;s always great when we, when we take a moment to be like, what could we make a bit easier to just like, no instructions required you get in there and you can tell like, what any individual thing will do without necessarily, like you said, having to go into drop downs and reading a bunch of stuff a little guesswork is okay. And also, it&#8217;s clear that none of it is dangerous. And so I think that&#8217;s, I think that&#8217;s a a good change myself. So, I agree with your assessment.\n\n\n\n[00:05:27] Josepha: So the style override patterns, that&#8217;s part of the suite of design tools that we&#8217;re pulling together, right?&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:05:33] Meher: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:05:34] Josepha: in your experience, you said you&#8217;re the CEO of your company, like in your experience, does that feel like something that&#8217;s super useful for agencies or particularly useful for freelancers, or should it generally be useful for everyone?\n\n\n\n[00:05:47] Meher: It will be useful from a small business point to a freelancer as well because we always try, like, in each page, we always, you know, there is some bits repeated, you know, so, patterns makes it easier, and syndicate pattern makes it more easier so that you can just duplicate and have one place to change. And, like, you have ten pages, you have one pattern across ten pages. The 11th page, you want the same pattern, but little change in that. It&#8217;s easier. It&#8217;s good because you can just change on that page, one particular thing and still go in the parent and change other things to reflect in that. So it will be very helpful for freelancers, small agencies. I do see big agencies take advantage of it. So overall, it should help everyone.\n\n\n\n[00:06:35] Josepha: Good. Good. I, for one, isn&#8217;t it great when we can get a feature out that mostly is going to help everyone. But I have been especially interested in the features that we&#8217;re trying to get out that help that kind of like small to medium agency area. I feel like we have a lot of folks in the WordPress community who do exactly what you&#8217;re talking about. You&#8217;re getting something together. You have a mostly what you need across your site. You have one style that&#8217;s out there, but there&#8217;s this one area that you want to have a little bit more personality or a little less personality, depending on what your client is looking for, like this one is applying for jobs, and it needs to be a little less exciting or whatever it is.\n\n\n\n[00:07:13] Josepha: I think that&#8217;s great that we have that option. So you don&#8217;t have to try to, I don&#8217;t know, hack your way through that. I know that we&#8217;re not a super get-in-there-and hack-on-it sort of group anymore these days, but I love that we still have that feeling of we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re going to make this a safe hacking space for you. Just get in there and make it work. So that&#8217;s excellent. Excellent. So for you, then, personally, cause you wear a lot of hats, you&#8217;ve your front-end developer; you&#8217;re running your company, you&#8217;re working, you&#8217;re a codable expert. You&#8217;ve got all these things. So from your perspective, what is the thing that got into this release that was a surprising, like a diamond in the rough for you, like a surprising good feature when you just thought it was like an important feature at some point? Was there one that seemed like it was a good idea but became a great idea by the time it was out?\n\n\n\n[00:08:00] Meher: Oh, I would say style variations because I did not expect the final style variation to be what it is. A theme developer can create the theme, can add styles, can add fonts, can give different design elements to the theme as a normal user when they when someone wants to just pull up a website, but they&#8217;re not good in design, or they don&#8217;t know which font to use. They choose which font, but then it doesn&#8217;t work. So if the theme provides an easy option just to shift the different styles they&#8217;re using and combining with the fonts. It is a much bigger opportunity for everyone because a normal user can just, they have a black and white site. I want to shift to a colorful site. Just go and see what the theme art has given you and shift it. So I think that I was surprised and I like the outcome. I&#8217;m sure my blogger friends also will like it because then they don&#8217;t have to depend on a designer to you know, give them color schemes and stuff.\n\n\n\n[00:09:01] Josepha: Yes. Yeah. So unrelated. It&#8217;s only, it&#8217;s kind of related. I shouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s unrelated. It&#8217;s all about WordPress. And now it&#8217;s about color palettes. So, I have a new design on my blog. And unfortunately I am the sort of person that does need a designer to tell me what I meant by the thing I thought. And so, like, I had this idea of the sort of color palette that I wanted and was searching for color palettes inside themes, which I was not succeeding at. And eventually I had a designer who was happy to help you figure this out and get something out there. And they got me something that&#8217;s absolutely perfect. It&#8217;s got an excellent color palette and they redid some images for me. So it looks nice and hip and feels kind of modern. I think it&#8217;s great. But the one thing that I consistently felt confident to mess with while I was in there, because I think they did some custom work in there too, is all of the stuff that&#8217;s included in style variations. Like, I&#8217;m not touching colors because I can&#8217;t put colors together to save my life. But I was pleasantly surprised also by that particular feature. It gives you a feeling of I can change the face of this through the fonts or whatever it is. And I think that&#8217;s a nice, a nice thing.\n\n\n\n[00:10:06] Meher: And it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a perfect combination. Color and font. Because a lot of people don&#8217;t know today&#8217;s time which font is good. Or which font is needed for an industry.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:10:16] Josepha: Exactly. Fortunately, I&#8217;m a site manager of one. And so I just had to ask myself if I liked the font and moved on from there. So, oh. So, like I said, as we&#8217;re recording this, we are less than 24 hours past the release. How was your experience with this release? Was it enjoyable? Did it like expand your horizons? Were there surprises in how a release is run?\n\n\n\n[00:10:43] Meher: There was no surprises because I&#8217;ve already been a part of a release. So I.\n\n\n\n[00:10:47] Josepha: That&#8217;s&nbsp;fair.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:10:49] Meher: You know, it&#8217;s depends on what happens on the day.&nbsp;But yes, behind the scenes, following up, just checking in to make sure, are we on time, do we need more time, or what needs, you know, how much more time is required. It was fairly good, I was only clearly concerned about on the day of the release, because there&#8217;s a lot of things to cover.\n\n\n\n[00:11:09] Josepha: Yes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:11:10] Meher: Usually, the party of the beta and the RCs finish in less than hour or so. But the final has a lot more detailed steps and many people to ping, to get, you know, them on the day of the release.\n\n\n\n[00:11:24] Josepha: Yeah, for folks who have never watched a release happen. So, I think a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast, they find it in the dashboard, they don&#8217;t necessarily contribute to WordPress. But, like, if you&#8217;ve never watched a WordPress release, we have these release parties for every beta that goes out, every release candidate that goes out, and then the general release. And I always find them so fascinating because, we have hundreds of contributors over the course of an individual release. And then we have probably 50, 60 people who show up at, for some of you all, in the middle of the night and are just being directed, like their attention is just being directed here and there.\n\n\n\n[00:12:06] Josepha: And I love watching it because I, I&#8217;m always in the release channel. I&#8217;m in the core channel. All of these are in Slack. And then I&#8217;m also in the admin channel where you have to do the flipping of switches and packaging things. And it&#8217;s really interesting to see, almost like a scan of a brain where things are lighting up for various things. Like, you do the pre-testing in the release channel, and then you do the general testing in the core channel. And then we&#8217;ve got like a person who&#8217;s flipping switches in the back, in the admin area to make sure that it all gets together. And it&#8217;s just really interesting to see how it all works. And yeah, it&#8217;s a really fun thing.\n\n\n\nDear listener, if you have never, if you&#8217;ve never done this, you have another opportunity. And I think the next release is early in November or something. And even if you&#8217;re there as like a spectator, not necessarily ready to take part in the release, sometimes it&#8217;s kind of nice to see how much effort and how many people are showing up to work on any individual release.\n\n\n\n[00:13:01]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;This was your first time to lead the release parties, though, right?\n\n\n\n[00:13:06] Meher: Yes. My first time releasing a release party. Also, to the spectators who have never been a part of release, you can just come and say hi. Like, yesterday, on the day of the release, there was one participant who joined for the first time, and she did contribute.&nbsp;And she was amazed by how smooth it went through. And for me, the best part of any release is seeing the green tick when people start testing. So, you know, everything is smooth sailing.\n\n\n\n[00:13:34] Josepha: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:13:34] Meher: And we&#8217;ll reach the destination.\n\n\n\n[00:13:36] Josepha: Yes. It&#8217;s, it is a real testament to how well and how closely all of these folks can work together, which if you stop and think about the fact that everybody&#8217;s like all over the world, it&#8217;s all across the globe that this is happening. It is why WordPress works, right? All of these people, all of you coming together to do this on behalf of this software. How cool that you had somebody who joined for the first time and then they were able to contribute immediately.\n\n\n\n[00:14:02] Meher: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:14:03] Josepha: I love that.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:14:04] Meher: Also, there are a lot of folks who&#8217;ve done it. So they&#8217;re always ready to help out. You know, if you&#8217;re stuck somewhere, as a first-time release lead, there were certain questions I had. There are a lot of people to guide you to the right direction or to say, this needs to go here, or you need to tell the audience this. A lot of support you get from the squad itself, plus the people who are not on the squad and who&#8217;ve done this.\n\n\n\n[00:14:29] Josepha: Absolutely. I remember the first release that I led I was the coordinator of it and I believe it was 5.0. I believe it was the one that we put Gutenberg in core with, and it was the most terrifying thing I&#8217;d ever done. Not because I hadn&#8217;t been watching these releases happening for years, but because it&#8217;s different participating and watching and then being the person who is like you said, like making sure that things are still going on time that you understand when you need to say, like, there&#8217;s no way that this works for users right now. We have to take it out and all those things. And then, yeah, the day of, the first time that you have to run one of those global meetings, be like, &#8216;everyone, we don&#8217;t have time for this. Move on&#8217;. That&#8217;s always a really hard first time. Well, cool. That&#8217;s so exciting. So I have a last question for you, and that is, you&#8217;ve kind of let us into it, for first-time contributors to a release, especially anyone who&#8217;s thinking about joining the release squad for the first time, do you have any advice, anything that you wish you had been told when you were coming into this?\n\n\n\n[00:15:32] Meher: Come with an open mind and come with a thought that there are people to help you. Ask in any channel. There will be someone or the other who will answer you immediately or a little later, depending on the time zone, and will guide you to the right person or right documentation where you can read up because there is a lot of documentation, good documentation on releases, how it handles and what team is needed, what they are supposed to do. So, you, you have a friendly bunch of people. Just ask.\n\n\n\n[00:16:03] Josepha: Excellent. I love it. I love that advice. That was really good advice. Don&#8217;t be scared. Everybody has answers, and they want to give them to you. I agree. That is a real strong truth for the WordPress project. Last thoughts: anything you want to share with the WordPress community with our community of listeners here?\n\n\n\n[00:16:20] Meher: Looking forward for new people joining the next release and seeing 6.7 new features, which I&#8217;m excited about, collaborative phase three coming into picture and excited about it.\n\n\n\n[00:16:32] Josepha: Yeah. So you can come join us, make.WordPress.org/core, or you can join us in the Slack instance. You can go to chat.WordPress.org and get signed up for that. We coordinate all of this in the core channel, and we hope to see every new contributor that&#8217;s been on the fence. We hope you show up. There&#8217;s a new meeting every two weeks just for y&#8217;all. Meher, this has been an excellent conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today.\n\n\n\n[00:16:56] Meher: Thank you for having me. It was fun.\n\n\n\n[00:16:58] (Music interlude)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:17:05] Josepha: Hopefully, you&#8217;ve had a chance to download the release and try it out on your own sites. As always, if you run into any bugs, let us know so that we can get them in the next point release.\n\n\n\nAnd that brings us now to our small list of big things. I have a moderate-sized small list. The first one is that WordPress is a reminder, actually. It&#8217;s a lot of reminders this week if I get right down to it, but this first one is a reminder that one of our big-picture goals for 2024 was getting new users into our event series. Our goal, of course, is to warmly welcome more first-time attendees and new users, and future WordPressers at all of our events, and that&#8217;s something that you can help get done. So, for all of our event organizers, or if you have not organized an event yet and would like to, just so that you can meet the fellow WordPressers in your area or, get to grow your own network a little bit. We&#8217;ve got a few best practices that can help you to make sure that you have a good experience for first time attendees. For one, you should always consider some thoughtful event design. Craft your events with some first-time attendees in mind. You have to consider their needs and interests and potential barriers to participation. Second, it helps to have some targeted messaging. Ensure that you have promotional materials that highlight the benefits of attending, but also what new knowledge, skills, or professional connections folks will gain when they come. It&#8217;s also good to share success stories of past first-time attendees. And then just kind of a final note for that on outreach strategies. You should experiment with a range of marketing channels to reach professional new attendees. You can partner with local schools, professional organizations, and online communities who can help to spread the word.\n\n\n\n[00:18:52] Josepha: The second thing on our small list of big things is a reminder that the Docs Team holds an online Contributor Day every fourth Tuesday. They&#8217;ve been doing this for about a year now. And I think that it&#8217;s one of the most engaging and fun new contributor experiences we have, which I realize might sound odd for documentation, but it&#8217;s a great team. It&#8217;s got a great number of team reps in it. And they&#8217;re looking for you. They&#8217;re looking out for you to come and join for your first time on a Contributor Day. The next one is actually tomorrow, July 23rd. I&#8217;ll have a link for that in the show notes.\n\n\n\n[00:19:29] Josepha: And the third thing on our list is a reminder about online workshops. These are live sessions where you can learn alongside other WordPress enthusiasts, and they&#8217;re, you know, safe spaces where you can come as you are, develop new ideas, explore issues that you&#8217;re having, ask questions, network over shared interests, exchange theories, collaborate, and honestly, thrive on a bit of problem-solving together. New workshops are happening all the time. You can check out the schedule to join in on a live session and even watch some of the previous sessions to see if it&#8217;s for you.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:20:03] Josepha: And the final thing on our list is that there is a recap up of the first Media Corps Briefing that was held on June 27th, and it provided media partners with an overview of the Source of Truth and updates that were planned for WordPress 6.6, that was released last week. Obviously, we just talked to Meher about it. But that particular session featured guest Anne McCarthy, who explained and demoed some of the upcoming features and answered a bunch of questions from the participants. The briefing was recorded and published on the WordPress YouTube channel. Apart from the recording, you can also find a summary, the full transcript, and other relevant links from the link in the show notes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:20:42]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard today, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I am your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing. And I&#8217;m taking a little break from the podcast in August, and so I will see you again, my friends, in September.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:21:15] (Music outro)&nbsp;\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17539\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey”\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/dorsey/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 16 Jul 2024 16:51:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:4:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"General\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17517\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:272:\"Say hello to the latest WordPress! WordPress 6.6 \"Dorsey\" is here to deliver on the promise of a better web with style, finesse, and a suite of enhanced tools to create beautifully coherent design elements and the confidence of automatic rollbacks for your plugin updates.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt Mullenweg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64097:\"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=1024%2C683&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17529\" srcset=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=1024%2C683&amp;ssl=1 1024w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=300%2C200&amp;ssl=1 300w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=768%2C512&amp;ssl=1 768w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=1536%2C1024&amp;ssl=1 1536w, https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=2048%2C1365&amp;ssl=1 2048w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1000px) 100vw, 1000px\" data-recalc-dims=\"1\" /></figure>\n\n\n\nSay hello to WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey,” named after the legendary American Big Band leader, Tommy Dorsey. Renowned for his smooth-toned trombone and compositions, Dorsey’s music captivated audiences with its emotional depth and vibrant energy.\n\n\n\nLet your heart swing, sing, and sway to the deep brass notes of&nbsp;<a href=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DZ06evO2TT3Ge?si=d9872e46371c4ed7\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Dorsey’s Big Band sound</a>&nbsp;as you explore the new features and enhancements of WordPress 6.6.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Hello, 6.6!</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 delivers on the promise of a better web by bringing style, finesse, and a suite of creative possibilities to your site-building experience. This version helps you do more with ease, putting enhanced tools at your fingertips and giving you unprecedented power behind the scenes. You will find more ways to create beautiful, coherent design elements across your site, a new layout for quick page previews in the Site Editor, and the safety of automatic rollbacks for failed plugin auto-updates—among many other highlights.\n\n\n\nIn addition to the new features, “Dorsey” continues to deliver the performance and accessibility gains you can expect from every WordPress release. Explore what WordPress 6.6 has to offer and get ready to let its features take your sites to new heights.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6.zip\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Download WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey”</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s inside</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Add more design options to block themes</h3>\n\n\n\nCreate color or font sets to multiply design combinations across one theme. These sets offer more contained design possibilities, allowing visual variety within the site’s broader styling guidelines.\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXc7Mg7QzTwFiR7NDQLj6p5m4eddq6MtscZYzTh5QeGqB2sLP3T_t2Io2cqA5QuSixyze9ZVWqsDF9ZD7VscWn0TWA6lCG0OgZ4o5Ar_8MgQta8B3vu3VzJQHYREY9NxUb9J8e3BFESmcnbRwg7g6GuFfguU?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simplify your workflow with a new layout for pages in the Site Editor</h3>\n\n\n\nSee all of your pages and a preview of any selected page with the new side-by-side layout in the Site Editor.\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfdAh-2XaS_6bdw8YcDZMRpkT0O6oWezPzZT3FzKjoWcxhM4ofivJli8eDRs1pO60wJ7F6YjQblSDop_O8MXQKwRlb_-g8CsFPPVb7hY3vEgIBPLb3tDyrvZZhSZL6Zp-ntXQdB2-ixFVoWaY-Empv3hZQ-?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Auto-update your plugins with peace of mind</h3>\n\n\n\nEnjoy the convenience of plugin auto-updates with the safety of rollbacks if anything goes wrong—offering your site a new level of security, enhanced functionality as it becomes available, and almost no time or bandwidth from you to make it happen.\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXc3cOWzosH9yiEDJrkmndXXX4QShj-vVMJJslAlgxCT74ugbYJuRPszdUi2rrCt8fnmZm1fTdJ3DTkKxYh5ImN4b6lvyBI3bsf5nvzWSBtexeldhPGyjYZM4Me1eUzfq9bAzlzlwxVqI5Hf_i9y1NGvKEdc?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Customize content in synced patterns</h3>\n\n\n\nMake content changes in each instance of a synced pattern while maintaining a consistent style across them. Set these overrides for Heading, Paragraph, Button, and Image blocks when placed in a synced pattern.\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXdH_at4lSW3-Slznfn7HTOEp11xKp889JaLIj-JY5zATJbqZhNPM5MIVZzhn7J2gGhqRbkIzjGMhkFzfQFXfLpxoXu2MXDcPMCXaACaucFHph4dMrd8jHCqFckpk0HtJhEI_cWHTRDR0343_Ut06sgNgaOw?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Performance</h3>\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 features important updates like removing redundant WP_Theme_JSON calls, disabling autoload for large options, and eliminating unnecessary polyfill dependencies. Other highlights include lazy-loading post embeds, a new <code>data-wp-on-async</code> directive, and templates in the editor that load approximately 35% faster overall.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Accessibility</h3>\n\n\n\nThis release includes 58 accessibility fixes and enhancements. These focus on foundational aspects of the WordPress experience, particularly the data views component powering the new site editing experience and areas like the Inserter, which provide a key way of interacting with blocks and patterns.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">And much more</h3>\n\n\n\nVisit the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">feature showcase</a> for a full overview of all the new features and enhancements in WordPress 6.6.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">Check out what&#8217;s new</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Learn more about WordPress 6.6</h2>\n\n\n\nExplore <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a> for quick how-to videos, <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/social-learning/\">online workshops</a>, and other free resources to level up your WordPress knowledge and skills.\n\n\n\nThe <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a> contains detailed technical information and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes-6-6/\">developer notes</a> to help you build with WordPress and get the most out of this release. Don’t forget to subscribe to the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">Developer Blog</a> for updates, tutorials, and other helpful WordPress content for developers.\n\n\n\nFor information about installation, file changes, fixes, and other updates, read the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/wordpress-version/version-6-6/\">6.6 release notes</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The 6.6 release squad</h2>\n\n\n\nEvery release comes to you from a dedicated team of enthusiastic contributors who help keep things on track and moving smoothly. The team that has led 6.6 is a cross-functional group of contributors who are always ready to champion ideas, remove blockers, and resolve issues.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Release Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Release Coordinator: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Tech Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jb Audras</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Tech Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella van Durpe</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vcanales/\">Vicente Canales</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\">Damon Cook</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Documentation Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\">JuanMa Garrido</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdy68/\">Jenny Dupuy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josepmoran/\">Josep Morán</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Marketing &amp; Communications Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Test Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Design Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Performance Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\">Adam Silverstein</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you, contributors</h2>\n\n\n\nThe mission of WordPress is to <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/\">democratize publishing</a> and embody the <a href=\"https://opensource.org/osd-annotated\">freedoms that come with open source</a>. A global and diverse community of people collaborating to strengthen the software supports this effort.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 reflects the tireless efforts and passion of more than 630 contributors in at least 51 countries. This release also welcomed over 150 first-time contributors!\n\n\n\nTheir collaboration delivered more than 1,900 enhancements and fixes, ensuring a stable release for all—a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress open source community.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benniledl/\">!Benni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/1naveengiri/\">1naveengiri</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw/\">Aaron Robertshaw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aatanasov/\">aatanasov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abditsori/\">abditsori</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpalani/\">Abdulrahman Alani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webcommsat/\">Abha Thakor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abhi3315/\">abhi3315</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abhijitrakas/\">Abhijit Rakas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abitofmind/\">abitofmind</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kawauso/\">Adam Harley (Kawauso)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\">Adam Silverstein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamhorne/\">adamhorne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adeltahri/\">Adel Tahri</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adrianduffell/\">adrianduffell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aduth/\">aduth</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aezazshekh/\">Aezaz Shekh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaion07/\">Ahmed Kabir Chaion</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajfleming/\">ajfleming</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajitbohra/\">Ajit Bohra</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajithrn/\">Ajith R N</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akashdhawade/\">Akash Dhawade</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks/\">Aki Hamano</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\">Akira Tachibana</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akmelias/\">akmelias</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alanfuller/\">Alan Fuller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aljullu/\">Albert Juh&#233; Lluveras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alesflex/\">alesflex</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/acicovic/\">Alex Cicovic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xknown/\">Alex Concha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cawa-93/\">Alex Kozack</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajlende/\">Alex Lende</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexstine/\">Alex Stine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexandrebuffet/\">Alexandre Buffet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexminza/\">alexminza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/firewatch/\">allilevine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrfoxtalbot/\">Alvaro G&#243;mez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amanias1977/\">amanias1977</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alh0319/\">Amber Hinds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amirthepiper/\">Amir Abbas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amisiewicz/\">amisiewicz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amitraj2203/\">Amit Raj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anamarijapapic/\">Anamarija Papić</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anlino/\">Anders Nor&#233;n</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andr3ribeiro/\">Andre Ribeiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia/\">Andrea Fercia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/awetz583/\">Andrea Roenning</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andraganescu/\">Andrei Draganescu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/euthelup/\">Andrei Lupu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewhayward/\">Andrew Hayward</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/l1nuxjedi/\">Andrew Hutchings</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nacin/\">Andrew Nacin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/\">Andrew Ozz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong/\">Andrew Serong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oandregal/\">André Maneiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen/\">Andy Fragen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aneeshd16/\">Aneesh Devasthale</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelaromana/\">Angela R.L</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anilvaza/\">Anil Vaza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankit-k-gupta/\">Ankit K Gupta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankitmaru/\">Ankit Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antpb/\">Anthony Burchell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ant1busted/\">Antoine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antonvlasenko/\">Anton Vlasenko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aristath/\">Ari Stathopoulos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perezcarreno/\">Armando J.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ambrosiawt/\">Art Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artemiosans/\">Artemio Morales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arthur791004/\">Arthur Chu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artpi/\">Artur Piszek</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dextorlobo/\">Arun Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ideag/\">Arunas Liuiza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/asheshmagar/\">Ashesh Magar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imasikur22/\">Asiqur Rahman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mohonchandra/\">Asish Chandra Mohon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aslamdoctor/\">Aslam Doctor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alisongodar/\">asmittle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aurooba/\">Aurooba Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ayeshrajans/\">Ayesh Karunaratne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beryldlg/\">B&#233;ryl de La Grandi&#232;re</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/balub/\">Balu B</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bangank36/\">bangank36</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bartkalisz/\">Bart Kalisz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beafialho/\">Beatriz Fialho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beaulebens/\">Beau Lebens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/scruffian/\">Ben Dwyer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benlk/\">Ben Keith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/britner/\">Ben Ritner - Kadence WP</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamingosset/\">Benjamin Gosset</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjaminpick/\">Benjamin Pick</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\">Benjamin Zekavica</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjpw/\">benjpw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter/\">bernhard-reiter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bph/\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bissy/\">bissy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oldrup/\">Bjarne Oldrup</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blackbam/\">Blackbam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blockify/\">Blockify</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blogography/\">blogography</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bnewboldbsky/\">bnewboldbsky</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bnjunge/\">bnjunge</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjorsch/\">Brad Jorsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgoewert/\">Brennan Goewert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironprogrammer/\">Brian Alexander</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bacoords/\">Brian Coords</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgardner/\">Brian Gardner</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgosnell/\">Brian Gosnell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/masteradhoc/\">Brian Haas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bridgetwillard/\">Bridget Willard</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bridgetwes/\">bridgetwes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/brookemk/\">Brooke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/freibergergarcia/\">Bruno Freiberger Garcia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/btpub/\">Bruno Tritsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/burnuser/\">burnuser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/icaleb/\">Caleb Burks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stringpiggy/\">Candy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbravobernal/\">Carlos Bravo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/carlosgprim/\">Carlos G. P.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena/\">Carolina Nymark</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbirdsong/\">cbirdsong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shireling/\">Chad Chadbourne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/caercam/\">Charlie Merland</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\">Chloe Bringmann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chouby/\">Chouby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jazzs3quence/\">Chris Reynolds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chrisdotdotdot/\">chrisdotdotdot</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/apermo/\">Christoph Daum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/christopherplus/\">Christopher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/butterflymedia/\">Ciprian</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarktbt/\">Clark</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev/\">Colin Stewart</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colind/\">ColinD</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colle/\">colle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/comecaramelos/\">comecaramelos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cotobago/\">Constantine Vasilyev</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cookiesfordevo/\">CookiesForDevo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coreymckrill/\">Corey McKrill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01/\">Courtney Robertson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/craigfrancis/\">Craig Francis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/crazytonyli/\">crazytonyli</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cwhitmore/\">Cullen Whitmore</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/curdin/\">Curdin Krummenacher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cyrus11/\">cyrus11</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daledupreez/\">Dale du Preez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\">Damon Cook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful tones/\">Damon Cook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansoschin/\">Dan Soschin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansully/\">Dan Sullivan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daniguardiola/\">Dani Guardiola</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp/\">Daniel Richards</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz/\">darerodz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nerrad/\">Darren Ethier (nerrad)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darshitrajyaguru97/\">Darshit Rajyaguru</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dav4/\">dav4</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davecpage/\">Dave Page</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diggeddy/\">David</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidakennedy/\">David A. Kennedy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\">David Baumwald</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbinda/\">David Biňovec</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidabowman/\">David Bowman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dpcalhoun/\">David Calhoun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dlh/\">David Herrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dkjensen/\">David Jensen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justlevine/\">David Levine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daviedr/\">David Rozando</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave/\">David Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davideferre/\">davideferre</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rxnlabs/\">De\'Yont&#233; W.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsas/\">Dean Sas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deeppatel8950/\">Deep Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deepakvijayan/\">Deepak Vijayan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dingo_d/\">Denis Žoljom</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell/\">Dennis Snell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/derekblank/\">Derek Blank</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsmart/\">Derek Smart</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/designsimply/\">designsimply</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dernin/\">Devin Curtis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dharm1025/\">Dharmesh Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhrumilk/\">Dhrumil Kumbhani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruval04/\">Dhruval Shah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruvang21/\">dhruvang21</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruvkb/\">dhruvkb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diedeexterkate/\">DiedeExterkate</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diegosomar/\">diegosomar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dilipbheda/\">Dilip Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32/\">Dion Hulse</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itsjustdj/\">DJ</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/djzone/\">DjZoNe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmpinder/\">dmpinder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ocean90/\">Dominik Schilling</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drewapicture/\">Drew Jaynes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drrxbracho/\">drrxbracho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/elrae/\">Earle Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talksina/\">Elena Brescacin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella van Durpe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarkeemily/\">Emily Clarke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manooweb/\">Emmanuel Hesry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enej/\">Enej Bajgorić</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/garridinsi/\">Eneko Garrido</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enodekciw/\">enodekciw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lopo/\">Enrico Battocchi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enricosorcinelli/\">Enrico Sorcinelli</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annubis/\">Eric-Oliver M&#228;chler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kebbet/\">Erik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/erikiva/\">erikiva</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/estelaris/\">Estela Rueda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/evanltd/\">evanltd</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gaambo/\">Fabian Todt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisal03/\">Faisal Alvi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fanly/\">Fanly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamfarhan09/\">Farhan Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flixos90/\">Felix Arntz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/firoz2456/\">Firoz Sabaliya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flabernardez/\">Flavia Bern&#225;rdez Rodr&#237;guez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mista-flo/\">Florian TIAR</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/f-j-kaiser/\">Franz Josef Kaiser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fushar/\">fushar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lunule/\">Gabor Lippert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gajendrasingh/\">Gajendra Singh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/galbaras/\">Gal Baras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gwallace87/\">Gale Wallace</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/voldemortensen/\">Garth Mortensen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/garyj/\">Gary Jones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka/\">George Mamadashvili</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/georgestephanis/\">George Stephanis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/geriux/\">Gerardo Pacheco</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gierand/\">gierand</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/glendaviesnz/\">Glen Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blepoxp/\">Glenn Ansley</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin/\">Grant M. Kinney</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo/\">Greg Ziółkowski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wido/\">Guido Scialfa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\">H&#233;ctor Prieto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hakre/\">hakre</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hanneslsm/\">hanneslsm</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hage/\">Hans-Gerd Gerhards</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/haritpanchal/\">Harit Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harshgajipara/\">Harsh Gajipara</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hazdiego/\">Haz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/heinperu/\">heinvv</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/helgatheviking/\">HelgaTheViking</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hinnerk/\">Hinnerk Altenburg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hbhalodia/\">Hit Bhalodia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hitendra-chopda/\">Hitendra Chopda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/humanify/\">humanify</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huubl/\">huubl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huzaifaalmesbah/\">Huzaifa Al Mesbah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamthomasbishop/\">iamthomasbishop</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ianbelanger/\">Ian Belanger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ignatiusjeroe/\">ignatiusjeroe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imranhasanraaz/\">Imran</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/inwerpsel/\">inwerpsel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ipstenu/\">Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison/\">Isabel Brison</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itpathsolutions/\">IT Path Solutions</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ivanottinger/\">ivanottinger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/weijland/\">Jaap Weijland</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpstevens/\">Jack Stevens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jaclync/\">jaclync</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/smithjw1/\">Jacob Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jameskoster/\">James Koster</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jwgoedert/\">James Wesley Goedert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xhemals/\">Jamie Speller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/janboddez/\">Jan Boddez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jtolleouw/\">Jansen Tolle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/janthiel/\">janthiel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr/\">Jarda Snajdr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/szopserwis/\">Jarek Mazurczak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jarekmorawski/\">jarekmorawski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpolakovic/\">Jaroslav \"Dero\" Polakovic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jason_the_adams/\">Jason Adams</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbking/\">Jason Crist</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnjohnston/\">Jason Johnston</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madtownlems/\">Jason LeMahieu (MadtownLems)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiercasares/\">Javier Casares</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jayanthparthsarathy/\">jayanthparthsarathy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jbinda/\">jbinda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdekhtiar/\">jdekhtiar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jean-Baptiste Audras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krokodok/\">Jeff Chi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jffng/\">Jeff Ong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\">Jeffrey Paul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffr0/\">Jeffro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeflopodev/\">jeflopo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdy68/\">Jenny Dupuy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeremyfelt/\">Jeremy Felt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeherve/\">Jeremy Herve</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpry/\">Jeremy Pry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeryj/\">Jerry Jones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amieiro/\">Jes&#250;s Amieiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/onmauitime/\">Jess</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luminuu/\">Jessica Lyschik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jhned/\">jhned</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jigar-bhanushali/\">Jigar Bhanushali</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jigar9998/\">Jigar Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jipmoors/\">Jip Moors</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jivedig/\">JiveDig</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\">Joe Dolson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\">Joe McGill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen/\">Joen Asmussen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/timse201/\">Johannes J&#252;lg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion/\">John Blackbourn</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnillo/\">John Espiritu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnny5/\">John Godley</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bitmachina/\">John Hooks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnjamesjacoby/\">John James Jacoby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell/\">Jon Surrell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jon092/\">jon092</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jaruzek/\">Jonathan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psykro/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/n2erjo00/\">Joni Erkkil&#228;</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/spacedmonkey/\">Jonny Harris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jordesign/\">jordesign</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgefilipecosta/\">Jorge Costa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josevarghese/\">Jose Varghese</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josepmoran/\">Josep Morán</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josephscott/\">Joseph Scott</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/verygoode/\">Joshua Goode</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jossnaz/\">Jossnaz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanfra/\">Juan Aldasoro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\">JuanMa Garrido</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jules/\">jules</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juliemoynat/\">Julie Moynat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jrf/\">Juliette Reinders Folmer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juliobox/\">Julio Potier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/greenshady/\">Justin Tadlock</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justnorris/\">justnorris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jyolsna/\">Jyolsna J E</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kadamwhite/\">K. Adam White</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kafleg/\">KafleG</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevin940726/\">Kai Hao</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kajalgohel/\">Kajal Gohel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kamran8176/\">kamran8176</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kapilpaul/\">Kapil Paul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karlijnbk/\">Karlijn Bok</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karolmanijak/\">Karol Manijak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thekt12/\">Karthik Thayyil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoonini/\">Kathryn Presner</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/keithdevon/\">keithdevon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kellenmace/\">Kellen Mace</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle/\">Kelly Choyce-Dwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/keoshi/\">keoshi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevinwhoffman/\">Kevin Hoffman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/khokansardar/\">Khokan Sardar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/killua99/\">killua99</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kirasong/\">Kira Schroder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kitchin/\">kitchin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ixkaito/\">Kite</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kjellr/\">Kjell Reigstad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kkmuffme/\">kkmuffme</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kmvan/\">kmvan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/knutsp/\">Knut Sparhell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kovshenin/\">Konstantin Kovshenin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/koodii/\">koodii</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kristastevens/\">kristastevens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kristenfisher427/\">kristenfisher427</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupajnanda/\">Krupa Nanda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupalpanchal/\">Krupal Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kushang78/\">Kushang Tailor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kyleak/\">kyleak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mlaetitia/\">Lae</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lanresmith/\">Lanre Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lgersman/\">Lars Gersmann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/newyorkerlaura/\">Laura Byrne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurelfulford/\">laurelfulford</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oncecoupled/\">Lauren</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\">Lauren Stein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wplmillet/\">Laurent MILLET</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peexy/\">Laurent Naudier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leemon/\">leemon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/0mirka00/\">Lena Morita</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leonidasmilossis/\">Leonidas Milosis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lgladdy/\">Liam Gladdy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rudlinkon/\">Linkon Miyan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/liviopv/\">liviopv</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/louiswol94/\">Louis Wolmarans</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thelovekesh/\">Lovekesh Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luan-ramos/\">Luan Ramos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luboslives/\">luboslives</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/crixu/\">Lucas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gigitux/\">Luigi Teschio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lardsax/\">Luis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lmartins/\">Luis Martins</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/interdevel/\">Luis Molina (interdevel)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz/\">luisherranz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lyonmuller/\">Lyon M&#252;ller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pagelab/\">M&#225;rcio Duarte</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/selectedselections/\">Maddie - a11n</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madfcat/\">madfcat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madhudollu/\">Madhu Dollu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/onemaggie/\">Maggie Cabrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mai21/\">Mai</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/makdiahussain/\">Makdia Hussain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manfcarlo/\">manfcarlo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manojmaharrshi/\">Manoj Maharrshi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mdxfr/\">Marc</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marc4/\">Marc Armengou</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fullofcaffeine/\">Marcelo de Moraes Serpa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iworks/\">Marcin Pietrzak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mciampini/\">Marco Ciampini</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pereirinha/\">Marco Pereirinha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marherumr/\">marherumr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaton666/\">Marie Comet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tyxla/\">Marin Atanasov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot/\">Mario Santos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clorith/\">Marius L. J.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead/\">Mark Howells-Mead</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markjaquith/\">Mark Jaquith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markjszymanski/\">Mark Szymanski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mapk/\">Mark Uraine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mhkuu/\">Martijn van der Klis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mat-lipe/\">Mat Lipe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imath/\">Mathieu Viet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmaattiiaass/\">Matias Benedetto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb/\">Matias Ventura</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webdevmattcrom/\">Matt Cromwell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mattmm/\">Matt Medeiros</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mattormeeple/\">Matt Sherman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matteoenna/\">Matteo Enna</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maurodf/\">maurodf</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hmbashar/\">Md Abul Bashar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devsahadat/\">Md Sahadat Husain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tofajjal02/\">Md Tofajjal Hossen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mdnesarmridha/\">MD.NESAR MRIDHA</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/immeet94/\">Meet Makadia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meetmehta1205/\">Meet Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/megane9988/\">megane9988</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hrkhal/\">Michael James Ilett</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/czapla/\">Michal Czaplinski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mcsf/\">Miguel Fonseca</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miguelsansegundo/\">miguelsansegundo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/misulicus/\">Mihai Joldis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miikkamakela/\">Miikka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/simison/\">Mikael Korpela</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikehend/\">Mike Henderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmcalister/\">Mike McAlister</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikeybinns/\">Mikey Binns</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/multidots1896/\">Minal Diwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/illuminea/\">Miriam Schwab</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presents111/\">miya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mkismy/\">mkismy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mobarak/\">Mobarak Ali</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mohitdadhich10/\">Mohit Dadhich</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/monzuralam/\">Monzur Alam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jucaduca/\">Morais Junior</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrwweb/\">mrwweb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devmuhib/\">Muhibul Haque</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mujuonly/\">mujuonly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27/\">Mukesh Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faguni22/\">Mumtahina Faguni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/musannifzahir/\">Musannif Zahir</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amustaque97/\">Mustaque Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/myhro/\">myhro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mykolashlyakhtun/\">mykolashlyakhtun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nsinelnikov/\">Mykyta Synelnikov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/assassinateur/\">Nadir Seghir</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/naeemhaque/\">Naeem Haque</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/namithjawahar/\">Namith Jawahar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin/\">Narendra Sishodiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nareshbheda/\">Naresh Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nateinaction/\">Nate Gay</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nazmul111/\">Nazmul Hosen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nboot8/\">nboot8</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nendeb/\">nendeb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neotrope/\">neotrope</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego/\">Nick Diego</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicmare/\">nicmare</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nico23/\">Nico</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niktat/\">Nicolas Tatarchenko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicolefurlan/\">Nicole Furlan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgnicolepaschen/\">Nicole Paschen Caylor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicomollet/\">nicomollet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nidhidhandhukiya/\">nidhidhandhukiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nielslange/\">Niels Lange</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nihar007/\">Nihar Ranjan Das</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ntsekouras/\">Nik Tsekouras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rabmalin/\">Nilambar Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nilovelez/\">Nilo Velez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niravsherasiya7707/\">Nirav Sherasiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithi22/\">Nithin John</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithins53/\">Nithin SreeRaj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nkeller15/\">nkeller15</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noruzzaman/\">Noruzzaman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nosilver4u/\">nosilver4u</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/obliviousharmony/\">obliviousharmony</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ohia/\">Ohia ᚛ᚈᚐᚂᚐᚋᚆ᚜</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/okat/\">okat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dargus/\">Old account</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/domainsupport/\">Oliver Campion</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webgarten/\">Oliver Schmid</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/olliejones/\">OllieJones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alshakero/\">Omar Alshaker</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/omerkurd/\">omerkurd</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paaljoachim/\">Paal Joachim Romdahl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pablohoneyhoney/\">Pablo Honey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pacicio/\">Pacicio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pls78/\">Paolo L. Scala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/papijo/\">papijo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy/\">Pascal Birchler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/patricia70/\">Patricia BT</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lumiblog/\">Patrick Lumumba</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbearne/\">Paul Bearne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron/\">Paul Biron</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pauldewouters/\">Paul de Wouters</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulkevan/\">Paul Kevan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulwilde/\">Paul Wilde</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulopmt1/\">Paulo Trentin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pavanpatil1/\">Pavan Patil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pavelevap/\">pavelevap</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pedromendonca/\">Pedro Mendon&#231;a</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peiche/\">peiche</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pers/\">Per S&#248;derlind</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perryrylance/\">perryrylance</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/provenself/\">Peter Rubin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc/\">Peter Wilson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/petitphp/\">petitphp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/petralian/\">petralian</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mr2p/\">Phi Phan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nekojonez/\">Pieterjan Deneys</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wppinar/\">Pinar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pitamdey/\">Pitam Dey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pkuliga/\">pkuliga</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pooja1210/\">Pooja N Muchandikar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pooja9712/\">pooja9712</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/povilasstaskus/\">Povilas Sta&#353;kus</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ppolo99/\">ppolo99</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/praful2111/\">Praful Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pranitdugad/\">Pranit Dugad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/prasadkarmalkar/\">Prasad Karmalkar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pmbaldha/\">Prashant Baldha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pratiklondhe/\">Pratik Londhe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/freewebmentor/\">Prem Tiwari</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presskopp/\">Presskopp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presstoke/\">presstoke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/printsachen1/\">printsachen1</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priyanshii5/\">Priyanshii Vijayvargiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/prottoysarkar/\">Prottoy Sarkar Argho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/quietnoise/\">QuietNoise</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rachelbaker/\">Rachel Baker</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rafaelgalani/\">Rafael Galani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rafaucau/\">Rafał Całka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lamarajan/\">Rajan Lama</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rajinsharwar/\">Rajin Sharwar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rahmohn/\">Ramon Ahnert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcorrales/\">Ramon Corrales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly/\">Ramon James</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/raquelandefeld/\">Raquel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ravipatel/\">Ravikumar Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ravinderk/\">Ravinder Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rejaulalomkhan/\">Rejaul Alom Khan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/defries/\">Remkus de Vries</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tabrisrp/\">Remy Perona</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/renishsurani/\">renishsurani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/retrofox/\">retrofox</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad/\">Riad Benguella</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rdcoll/\">Rich Collier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rockfire/\">Richard Korthuis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richardevs/\">richardevs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcreators/\">Rishi Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noisysocks/\">Robert Anderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/robertghetau/\">Robert Ghetau</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/littlerchicken/\">Robin Cornett</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rodionov201/\">rodionov201</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kreppar/\">Rodrigo Arias</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rodrigosprimo/\">Rodrigo Primo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rogermedia/\">Roger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rolfsiebers/\">Rolf Siebers</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/roytanck/\">Roy Tanck</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rmccue/\">Ryan McCue</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryancurban/\">Ryan Urban</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/welcher/\">Ryan Welcher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sebastienserre/\">S&#233;bastien SERRE</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergiomdgomes/\">S&#233;rgio Gomes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/soean/\">S&#246;ren W&#252;nsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/s0what/\">s0what</a> · <a 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href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shaunandrews/\">shaunandrews</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sheulyshila/\">sheulyshila</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shital-patel/\">Shital Marakana</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shivapoudel/\">Shiva Poudel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shivashankerbhatta/\">Shiva Shanker Bhatta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/showravhasan/\">Showrav Hasan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shreyash3087/\">Shreyash Srivastava</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shub07/\">Shubham Kumar Bansal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shuvomohajan/\">Shuvo Mohajan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nomnom99/\">Siddharth Thevaril</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/siliconforks/\">siliconforks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/simo_m/\">Simone Maranzana</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/siobhyb/\">Siobhan</a> · 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href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yankiara/\">yankiara</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/collet/\">Yann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yguyon/\">Yannis Guyon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fierevere/\">Yui</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yukinobu/\">Yukinobu Asakawa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yuvrajsinh2211/\">Yuvrajsinh Sisodiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zackkrida/\">Zack Krida</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zackkatz/\">zackkatz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zafarkamal/\">Zafar Kamal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zeelthakkar/\">zeelthakkar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zenaulislam/\">Zenaul Islam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zieladam/\">zieladam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zkarj/\">zkarj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zunaid321/\">Zunaid Amin</a>\n\n\n\nMore than <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/stats/\">60 locales have translated 90 percent</a> or more of WordPress 6.6 into their language. Community translators are working hard to ensure more translations are on their way. Thank you to everyone who helps make WordPress available in 200 languages.\n\n\n\nLast but not least, thanks to the volunteers who contribute to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/\">support forums</a> by answering questions from WordPress users worldwide.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved</h2>\n\n\n\nParticipation in WordPress goes far beyond coding, and learning more and getting involved is easy. Discover the teams that come together to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/\">Make WordPress</a> and use <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/contribute/\">this interactive tool</a> to help you decide which is right for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">6.6 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\nSix-point-six is here. Make it all gorgeous; keep it On brand, and relax.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17517\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"WordPress 6.6 Release Candidate 3\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-release-candidate-3/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 09 Jul 2024 17:39:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:5:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:4;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17497\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:345:\"WordPress 6.6 RC3 is ready for download and testing! This version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC3 on a test server or a local environment. Reaching this phase of the release cycle is a [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"marybaum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9781:\"\nWordPress 6.6 RC3 is ready for download and testing!\n\n\n\nThis version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC3 on a test server or a local environment.\n\n\n\nReaching this phase of the release cycle is a worthy achievement. While release candidates are considered ready for release, your testing is still vital to make sure everything in WordPress 6.6 is the best it can be.\n\n\n\nYou can test WordPress 6.6 RC3 in four ways:\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6-RC3.zip\">RC3 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.6-RC3</code></td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22beta%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20[%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20]%20%7D\">6.6 RC3 WordPress Playground instance</a> (available within 35 minutes after the release is ready) to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup.</td></tr></tbody></table><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Please test WordPress 6.6 RC3 in one or more of these four ways.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\nThe target for the WordPress 6.6 release is next Tuesday, July 16, 2024. Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">6.6 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-6/\">6.6-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in WordPress 6.6 RC3?</h2>\n\n\n\nThanks to your testing (and many other contributors‘ up to now) this release includes eight bug fixes for the Editor and <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">18 tickets for WordPress Core</a>.\n\n\n\nGet a recap of WordPress 6.6’s highlighted features in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-beta-1/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">Beta 1 announcement</a>. For more technical information related to issues addressed since RC 2, you can browse the following links:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.6?since=2024-07-02&amp;until=2024-07-09\">GitHub commits for 6.6</a> since July 2</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">Closed Trac </a><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=07%2F02%2F2024..07%2F09%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">tickets</a> since July 2</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWant to look deeper into the details and technical notes for this release? You might want to make your first stop <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">The WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a>. Then, check out this list:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/roster-of-design-tools-per-block-wordpress-6-6-edition/\">Roster of design tools per block (WordPress 6.6 edition)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes+6-6/\">All 6.6-related developer notes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">You can contribute. Here&#8217;s how</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress is the world’s most popular open source web platform, thanks to a passionate community of people who collaborate on its development in a wide variety of ways. You can help—whether or not you have any technical expertise.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved in testing</h3>\n\n\n\nTesting for issues is critical to keeping WordPress speedy, stable, and secure. It’s also a vital way for anyone to contribute. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17392\">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.6. If you&#8217;re new to testing, follow <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">this general testing guide</a> for more details on getting set up.\n\n\n\nIf you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can also report it on <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a>. Before you do either, you may want to check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.\n\n\n\nCurious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Please update your WordPress product</h3>\n\n\n\nIf you build themes, plugins, blocks, or patterns, your efforts play an integral role in adding new functionality to WordPress and helping bring new people and ideas to the most vibrant (and massive!) open source community in the world.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThanks for continuing to test your products with the WordPress 6.6 betas and release candidates. With RC3, you’ll want to make sure everything is working smoothly, and if it&#8217;s a plugin, update the “Tested up to” version in its <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/how-your-readme-txt-works/\">readme file</a> to 6.6.\n\n\n\nIf you find compatibility issues, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forum</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Help translate WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\nDo you speak a language other than English? <bdo lang=\"es\" dir=\"ltr\">¿Español?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"fr\" dir=\"ltr\">Français?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"ru\" dir=\"ltr\">Русский</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"ja\" dir=\"ltr\">日本</bdo>語? <bdo lang=\"hin\" dir=\"ltr\">हिन्दी</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"bn\" dir=\"ltr\">বাংলা</bdo>? You can <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev/\">help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The RC3 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\nOne week to go. Then: Open the paintbox! Try the tools! Play a new jazz tune.\n\n\n\nProps to <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\' class=\'mention\'>@meher</a> and <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\' class=\'mention\'>@audrasjb</a>. for peer review.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17497\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"WP Briefing: Episode 83: Learning Pathways\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-83-learning-pathways/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 08 Jul 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17489\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:421:\"Discover how Learning Pathways can guide you through your WordPress journey with clarity and purpose. In the latest episode of WordPress Briefing, host Josepha Haden Chomphosy welcomes special guest Wes Theron to discuss the newly introduced Learning Pathways. These curated lesson sets are tailored to various experience levels, roles, and use cases, ensuring a personalized learning experience for every WordPress user.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/WPB083.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35130:\"\nDiscover how Learning Pathways can guide you through your WordPress journey with clarity and purpose. In the latest episode of WordPress Briefing, host Josepha Haden Chomphosy welcomes special guest Wes Theron to discuss the newly introduced Learning Pathways. These curated lesson sets are tailored to various experience levels, roles, and use cases, ensuring a personalized learning experience for every WordPress user. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\nHost:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a> Guest: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/west7/\">Wes Theron</a> Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a> Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a> Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn.WordPress.org</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\">Beginner WordPress User</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">WordPress Playground</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETacCXdCCxwdAo-_xciwlQJ\">Learn WordPress YouTube Playlist</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Small List of Big Things\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-5-5/\">WordPress 6.5.5 is now available!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/06/15/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-q4-2024-call-for-interest/\">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Q4 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordPress 6.6 Official Release</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYdkXAx7qw\">What’s new for theme developers in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meetings/\">Upcoming WordPress Meetings</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[00:00:00]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go.\n\n\n\n[00:00:28] (Intro music)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:39] Josepha: As a steward of the WordPress community, one of the big overarching questions that I grapple with is how to make sure people who have just found out about us know how to get around. Obviously, there&#8217;s the contributor path, which is important to me because I am especially concerned with the longevity of our little open source community, but there&#8217;s also a path for folks who are learning how to use the software.\n\n\n\n[00:01:03] Josepha: And so, joining me today to talk through a project called Learning Pathways is Wes Theron. Wes, welcome to the WordPress Briefing.\n\n\n\n[00:01:11] Wes: Good day. Thank you very much for having me. It&#8217;s a pleasure.\n\n\n\n[00:01:13] Josepha: Before we get into this project that we&#8217;re talking about, do you want to just tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do with the WordPress project?\n\n\n\n[00:01:22] Wes: Yeah. So, as you know, my name is Wes Theron. I&#8217;m based in New Zealand, and I&#8217;m an instructional designer. And, I am part of the Training Team. So, most of my life revolves around creating learning content for learn.WordPress.org.\n\n\n\n[00:01:38] Josepha: Oh, that&#8217;s quite a life. Teaching people how to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:01:42] Wes: Yeah, I teach WordPress. We run online workshops. I create video tutorials, courses, and now, of course, this great project we&#8217;re working on, Learning Pathways.\n\n\n\n[00:01:52] Josepha: Yeah. So, I&#8217;ve talked about Learning Pathways a few times here on the podcast, but for folks who have not heard me talk about it or who just need a more in-depth understanding, why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about this project as it stands today?&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:02:06] Wes: Yeah, so when Learn started out, I think the main goal was to just get learning content on the site. But, in May of last year, we shared an individual learning survey with folks, and we were hoping to basically find out what are the needs of the learners? What are learners after? And from that individual learner survey, we actually learned a few things. We learned that tutorials, courses, and online workshops were the most used content types. We also saw that web-based learning is the most popular learning method. And then there was a clear need for a structured way of consuming learning material. And that&#8217;s basically where the Learning Pathways project was born; to create Learning Pathways that basically target various types of learners, but also various skill levels. So July of last year, we started with outlines, creating outlines for these learner pathways.\n\n\n\n[00:03:10] Wes: And then, in October of last year, we actually started creating content. So, the first learner pathways we started working on was the User Learning Pathway and the Developer Learning Pathway. And what that entails is of course, creating a Learning Pathway for beginner users, intermediate users, and then advanced users.\n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s how we kind of broke it up. And last week, the Beginner Developer Pathway was actually published, so that&#8217;s very exciting. And a few weeks before that, the Beginner WordPress User Pathway. And yeah, of course, we&#8217;ve got many other pathways in the pipeline that we want to work on. For example, a Designer Learning Pathway and even a Contributor Learning Pathway.\n\n\n\n[00:03:57] Josepha: Yeah, when we&#8217;re talking about pathways, what we mean is, like, we are figuring out what you probably need to know when you first arrive and then helping you to identify what you build on based on what your goals might be.\n\n\n\n[00:04:11] Josepha: Like, obviously, the beginner user, the goal is basically just like, learn how to get WordPress doing stuff at all. Like that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s an easy goal to understand. But when you all were doing the work to figure out what needed to be in the pathway for a beginner developer, and as you&#8217;re looking towards doing the work around intermediate and advanced topics, like how are you all able to determine what most likely you need in those various steps in the learning process?\n\n\n\n[00:04:42] Wes: So, of course, a lot of research went into that. When we created the outlines for these Learning Pathways. We shared it with the community. We asked for feedback. And yeah, a lot of research was done to make sure we cover all the all the bases. \n\n\n\n[00:04:59] Josepha: I know that there were a couple of different proposals about how to, like do skills assessments, maybe? There was something where like we were talking with companies that employ WordPress folks in the ecosystem, and then we were talking to WordPressers who were currently trying to make sure that their skills were advanced enough to get those jobs. And we were trying to figure out like the distance between those and where we actually have some concerns around like the language choices that they need, like basic developer language choices and jargon that goes in there and stuff like that.\n\n\n\n[00:05:34] Josepha: So this, if I recall correctly, the research for this has been going on for like maybe two or three years, right?\n\n\n\n[00:05:42] Wes: Yeah, definitely. And we&#8217;ve reached out to many stakeholders within the WordPress community. And as you say, even agencies, and businesses, you know, trying to find out what do they want people to know when they employ them. And yeah, then of course, speaking to the community, speaking, speaking to folks at WordCamps reaching out to folks an online workshops.\n\n\n\n[00:06:04] Wes: So, yeah, it&#8217;s definitely been an ongoing process and also seeing what resources are lacking and what needs to be there.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:06:12] Josepha: Yeah, so, the very first, the very first iteration of any training that the WordPress project was offering on, I think it was on learn.WordPress.org, but I don&#8217;t actually know for sure, was a troubleshooting workshop, because when you are trying to figure out WordPress for the first time, when you are trying to figure out any software for the first time, being able to figure out what went wrong is a really important part of that. And so that was like the only workshop that existed over there for quite some time. And so it&#8217;s really nice to see how we have really, not only created a bunch of resources in general, if you all have not looked at learn.WordPress.org lately, it has, like, workshop outlines that you can use to do a training by yourself at your meetup group or at a school or whatever it is.\n\n\n\n[00:07:08] Josepha: But then also, I want to say it was maybe two, three years ago, that you all, as a team, the Training Team, started doing these online workshops. And so, when you created the Learning Pathways, considering like how much time and research has gone into this project overall, did you all have learnings that came from those workshops that you had already done? Is this like a collection of workshops or is this something where you can do it at home and learn by yourself and then go someplace else and learn more about WordPress? Like how does that function in what we have already?\n\n\n\n[00:07:45] Wes: Yeah, so maybe I should first, maybe let&#8217;s define a learning pathway. So I, I thought about this, but a learning pathway, I would say, is a route taken by learner through a range of modules, lessons, and even courses to build knowledge progressively. So it&#8217;s similar to a course, but of course usually covers like a specific topic or subject where learning pathways usually have a larger goal.\n\n\n\n[00:08:11] Wes: So I wouldn&#8217;t say that the online workshops form part of the Learning Pathways project. And maybe I can also clarify that the teacher notes or the lesson plans that you refer to is something that&#8217;s also changing going forward. \n\n\n\n[00:08:23] Josepha: Oh, good. Because I wrote some of those, and I am not an instructional designer. And so, ha!\n\n\n\n[00:08:30] Wes: We&#8217;ve actually decided to move away from having two different content types. So, we had tutorials. You know, video tutorials, and we had lesson plans, and as you said, the lesson plans were notes that somebody could use to run an online workshop or to go to a WordCamp or at their local meetup and use that to teach something. But moving forward for Learning Pathways, we are actually just going to have one content type, namely lessons. And then lessons from part of creating a course or lessons from part of creating modules and then Learning Pathways. The other exciting thing, and something we haven&#8217;t mentioned, is that at the end of this month, when we launched the Learning Pathways or the first few Learning Pathways, it actually coincides with a website redesign.\n\n\n\n[00:09:18] Wes: So, yeah, beyond the lookout, hopefully, learn.WordPress.org is going to have a brand new face at the end, from the end of July or, yeah, or August. So, yeah, that&#8217;s very exciting.\n\n\n\n[00:09:30] Josepha: Excellent. Excellent. So, you said that these Learning Pathways are part of a larger goal. Is that a goal for your learners or a goal for WordPress? A goal for the team?\n\n\n\n[00:09:40] Wes: I would say all of the above.\n\n\n\n[00:09:42] Josepha: Goals for everybody. We&#8217;re like the Oprah of goals. Don&#8217;t come get me, Oprah. That&#8217;s all I got to say about it.\n\n\n\n[00:09:48] Wes: Yeah, I think for us as a team, at the end of the day, we want folks to be able to use the content and find the content and utilize all the learning material on learn.WordPress.org. And then, of course, at the end of the day, for learners, we want folks to be able to succeed in whatever they are trying to do. Is it to build their own website? Is it to maybe find a job as a developer? And. Yeah, I mean, the list can go on.\n\n\n\n[00:10:21] Josepha: Yeah. So, on the subject of wanting to help people succeed, I think that as far as I hear from the majority of contributors that I have worked with over the years, like helping other people figure out how to do this and making sure that they can succeed is always something that is top of mind for contributors to open source probably in general, but definitely to WordPress. Like, we really care about helping other people figure out how to have the same sort of benefits that we&#8217;ve had in the project and with the software. So if you have somebody who is familiar with all the bits and pieces of WordPress and really, really want to like show up and help teach some things. Is it the case that they can take part in like running a Learning Pathway? Is it something where we mostly need people to help us build some content? Like if we&#8217;ve got people who are just desperate to help other people succeed in WordPress, what kinds of things can they show up and help do on this project?\n\n\n\n[00:11:22] Wes: Yes, please come to the Training Team. There are many ways to get involved. If you just want to review content, you can do that. But yeah, we do have a need for content creators, folks, you know, creating a video lesson or putting their hand up and saying, I will actually create an entire module or an entire learning, a Learning Pathway. We do have some awesome contributors that&#8217;s part of the Training Team that are already doing that. Some people are writing scripts. Some folks are actually, you know, creating everything from the beginning to the end. So they are writing the script, they recording the video, publishing the video, et cetera. And then we&#8217;ve, of course, have people reviewing content. We&#8217;ve got folks running online workshops. If maybe creating video content is not their, is not their forte, they can can run online workshops. So yeah, many ways getting involved.\n\n\n\n[00:12:16] Wes: But Josepha, I wanted to point something else out that I haven&#8217;t done. I think there was a real need for Learning Pathways because, at the moment, if somebody new to WordPress or new to developing with WordPress wants to find learning content. You know, where do they go? What&#8217;s the main platform to go to? I think most people probably go to YouTube, right?&nbsp;But a lot of the content there are, are scattered and fragmented. \n\n\n\nSo a lot of learning material or learning about WordPress is all over the place. It&#8217;s not in one place. And as I said, a place where you can actually learn from A to Z, learn progressively learning in a structured way. Yes, we know there are courses available that you can pay for, but the awesome thing about this project is that we are providing these Learning Pathways, these learning resources, for free for folks to be able to work through at their own time. I know that&#8217;s something else you asked earlier on. So yes, this is a course in quotation marks; this is a Learning Pathway that somebody can start whenever it suits them, you know, in the comfort of their own home, and they can work through the Learning Pathway from the beginning to the end. Or, if they feel I actually know everything taught in module one and two, I&#8217;m going to start at module three, they can do that. They basically come in at their skill level.\n\n\n\n[00:13:43] Josepha: Yes. I think it&#8217;s really important to try to meet people where they are. And I know that it&#8217;s difficult because, like, we don&#8217;t take a lot of data from our users. You don&#8217;t have to give us basically anything in order to use WordPress. And by basically, I mean you literally don&#8217;t have to give us anything to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:14:01] Josepha: And so we always have some difficulty in figuring out what is it that our users need the most in order to succeed the quickest. And so I agree that there was a real need for this not only because, like, there&#8217;s plenty of content for getting from, like, some knowledge to a good amount of knowledge. There&#8217;s almost no content around, like, I didn&#8217;t know CMSs existed until yesterday, and now I need to quickly learn how to do it because it&#8217;s become a thing I need to do in my job. There&#8217;s some really clear, like use cases for being able to onboard quickly and progressively. And I understand that, like, having a clear, structured way to learn doesn&#8217;t always fit with the idea of meeting people where they are. But I do really think that, that like what you were saying, it can be as structured as you need it to be. But also, if you get into it and you think to yourself, you know, I know this information already. I can move on to the next module. I can move on to the module after that. Similar to the way we do that at WordCamps also. If you get into a session and you thought it was going to be useful for you, and you discover that it&#8217;s not once you&#8217;re there, you don&#8217;t have to stay. You can go to a different room where they&#8217;re teaching about SEO if it turns out that you don&#8217;t need to learn about JavaScript today.\n\n\n\n[00:15:23] Josepha: And I think that that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s kind of the value that this is hoping to bring, like, because it is a little bit built one on top of the other when you discover that you have already learned something, you can easily try out the next step and know that it&#8217;s probably a good next step.\n\n\n\n[00:15:38] Wes: Exactly. And if you maybe want to teach this to other folks. The plan is to, you know, we had lesson plans. We have a lot of lesson plans on Learn. But the plan is also to, instead of having, as I said, two different content types, is to have lessons but then add a tab where you can click on teacher notes and actually teach something as well if that is your goal. But yes, our lessons and modules also include quizzes and, hopefully, some practical activities. We&#8217;ve incorporated WordPress Playground where, where folks can actually, you know, test out what they&#8217;ve learned or test their knowledge. So yeah, I agree with you that you can basically join the Learning Pathway wherever you feel the most comfortable.\n\n\n\n[00:16:28] Josepha: So we&#8217;ve been kind of in the weeds of the project itself, the program itself, and if you want to like do stuff with that and in that. Let&#8217;s switch gears a little bit and talk about just what people who are wanting to join those pathways would need to know. Do you have any advice for somebody who is just today learning about these Learning Pathways and they think to themselves, I definitely want to sign up for one of those. Like, for one, how do they get started? And for two, your like top two or three bits of advice for as they get started? \n\n\n\n[00:17:05] Wes: So you can make your way to learn.WordPress.org, and you can basically open the, the pathway, and you can start wherever, wherever you want to. We have made it possible to actually view these pathways or our content without logging in with your dot org profile. The other thing I also wanted to mention is that our content is actually hosted on YouTube now.\n\n\n\nSo the great thing is we have these pathways within YouTube as well. So, folks can go to the, YouTube channel and see our content. And, of course, that basically reaches a very wide audience. And hopefully some of those videos will also bring people to the dot org site so that they can access the content.\n\n\n\n[00:17:57] Josepha: I think it&#8217;s great that you don&#8217;t have to sign up for a profile. If you are a brand new WordPresser and ran into this in your dashboard and are listening to this podcast now. So dot org profiles are a place where you can kind of log your activity in the WordPress community and the WordPress project. You do not have to have one in order to use WordPress. You don&#8217;t have to have one in order to look at these courses or to learn from them. But I always think that it&#8217;s kind of nice to get your profile set up so that people kind of know who you are and what you&#8217;re doing. And then also your activity shows up. Like, you can see that you enrolled in the course and you get to know for yourself that you made some progress. I know that when you&#8217;re getting started, it&#8217;s hard to, like, see your progress because you don&#8217;t know how far you have to go. And so, like progress when you&#8217;re starting out is really difficult to feel is real. And so I like it just so that you have a few reminders to yourself, like, look how far I&#8217;ve come as you&#8217;re trying to figure out how far you still have to go. And so I like that a lot. \n\n\n\n[00:18:58] Wes: You won&#8217;t be able to access all the content on Learn without your dot org profile. But one of the things we&#8217;ve made possible is to access these Learning Pathways, the new ones being launched without, you know, removing those blockers. So, of course, when you work through a Learning Pathway, you will be able to track your progress, and you will be able to see which lessons you have completed. So yeah, one of the pieces of advice I would give to somebody starting with the Learning Pathways actually to first go through the modules. And go through the lessons to see which things you know and feel comfortable with so that you don&#8217;t waste time maybe going through the first module and say, oh, I know this, and you&#8217;ve wasted time. Rather do a bit of research, a bit of reading, and then find the right place for you to start the journey.\n\n\n\n[00:19:45] Josepha: That&#8217;s excellent. I also, just as a learner, I try to always learn some stuff. And also, as you get older, it&#8217;s harder and harder to learn things partially because like you&#8217;re in a set path, but also, and here&#8217;s my advice to new learners: you worry about looking foolish. Like you, you worry, you&#8217;re showing up, and you don&#8217;t know anything about anybody else in the classroom. And so there&#8217;s this feeling of like, what if I&#8217;m the only person who does not know how to make this work? What if I&#8217;m the only person who can&#8217;t figure out what Wes meant by &#8220;Playground&#8221; or whatever it is? There&#8217;s this real feeling of looking silly when you&#8217;re doing something like this.\n\n\n\n[00:20:25] Josepha: I can&#8217;t control what anybody else says or does to anyone else, unfortunately. But what I can say is that I think that there&#8217;s never a bad time to start something you wish you had done, right? Like, the best time to have learned how to use your CMS, your website, make your website work was probably a year ago or something, but the second best time is today. And so, like, why not go ahead and get started and be part of that small group of adults that are learning new things every single day? I think that&#8217;s great. And so that&#8217;s my tip is to just embrace looking silly sometimes because you&#8217;re making some choices about your future, and that&#8217;s always a good choice.\n\n\n\n[00:21:04] Wes: And I would also say test your knowledge. So you&#8217;ve mentioned WordPress Playground. And as I said, we&#8217;ve incorporated into the Learning Pathways, but sometimes you watch a video, or you read something, and you feel like, oh yeah, I know this, but you know, the proof is in the pudding. So go and test it out. Use a test website or use WordPress Playground and test yourself to see if you can actually implement this or do something. So yeah, that&#8217;s definitely one of the other tips I want to highlight; you know, they also say you, you learn by doing.\n\n\n\n[00:21:38] Josepha: Yeah, absolutely. And also, like if you have gotten to a point you&#8217;ve done the learning, you&#8217;ve done some practicing, you think you&#8217;ve got it and want to like try to figure out what other things can be done with it. I recommend this is how I did a lot of my early WordPress learning to organize an event with your local meetup. Like, I did not know enough about WordPress when I started organizing WordPress meetups. I literally knew nothing. And I basically brought people in and was like, hey, we need people to teach us about this, us being half me. Come in and teach us. And, and that can be a really good thing, partially because, like, you get to know your local folks and see what&#8217;s going on and get a sense for, like, what is out there, especially if you&#8217;re learning this in order to run a business or to accomplish something for your job that you already have, like knowing what&#8217;s out there is super helpful. But then I find that once you embrace the fact that sometimes you will look silly, and that&#8217;s the only way that we can know we&#8217;re learning something. Like once you&#8217;ve embraced it, having some people who are willing to look a little silly with you is kind of, kind of fun, kind of nice. Also, like we&#8217;re all going to look at this problem that we definitely don&#8217;t understand and hopefully look like, at the end, we know what we&#8217;re doing, but between looking at it the first time and at the end of this meetup, we&#8217;re all going to look a little bit silly, ask silly questions. And I think that that&#8217;s a really helpful thing, too. But yeah, knowing some basic information is a great place to start before you do that, especially if you get anxious about looking silly. And I think these pathways are going to really help to get folks a little bit of a leg up on those big questions that they have as you&#8217;re starting to learn how to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:23:18] Josepha: So we talked about, like, tips and tricks for learners in general. But if you had something that you wanted to share with us that, like, you&#8217;re really excited about for either the Training Team or for the Learning Pathways in general, I think the Learning Pathways are slated to be shipped by, like, end of September or something. So, like, a lot of them are coming quite quickly.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:23:38] Wes: So I am most excited about the website redesign and the new look and feel of the website. And also, you know, one of the goals for us as a Training Team is for learn.WordPress.org to be one of the places people come to and learn about WordPress. And I feel these Learning Pathways and the new website redesign and all the hard work that&#8217;s gone into this project is hopefully going to, make that happen. As I said, our content is also available on YouTube. So we&#8217;ve really tried to make it easy for folks to find our content and also now to digest our content in a progressive and in a structured way. Because, you know, learning is hard. And hopefully, these Learning Pathways have made it easier for folks to, as you said, to build on your knowledge. You know, a lot of times, there&#8217;s knowledge gaps. And I think that&#8217;s what makes learning so hard. And hopefully with these pathways, you can build that knowledge one step at a time.\n\n\n\n[00:24:44] Josepha: Yeah. And as is the way with open source, like we can only make these pieces of content better if you all show up and help us like try it out, learn some stuff, and tell us what was confusing. Tell us what was too big a step. Cause yeah, you&#8217;re right. There are some knowledge gaps and when you&#8217;re on the other side of knowing something, it is so hard to tell how big a step is, you know?\n\n\n\n[00:25:11] Wes: Exactly.\n\n\n\n[00:25:12] Josepha: And so we need y&#8217;all to come in here and tell us very plainly as a new learner like that was eventually what I needed, but this part here was especially confusing. This part over here was too like too many little steps like we just we&#8217;re trying to make sure that it works for you WordPressers, future WordPressers of the world. And so yeah, come build some learning with us over here on the Training Team.\n\n\n\n[00:25:35] Wes: And yes, please, we want feedback because, as you say, as we iterate, we want to improve. So there will be a place where you can provide feedback, and at the end of the pathway where there will also be a satisfaction survey for folks to to complete.\n\n\n\n[00:25:50] Josepha: Great. Well, folks, we&#8217;re gonna have a bunch of links in the show notes. There&#8217;s so much stuff out here to learn with and about WordPress. Wes, thank you so much for joining me today.\n\n\n\n[00:26:01] Wes: Thank you for having me. And I will see you all on Learn.\n\n\n\n[00:26:05] (Music interlude)\n\n\n\n[00:26:12] Josepha: That brings us now to our small list of big things. Although I have to say we have a bunch of links that we&#8217;re going to share in the show notes. If you&#8217;re listening to this in a place where there are not show notes, you can head over to WordPress.org/news. That&#8217;s where we keep all of those. If you are lucky, we also will help you find it on Twitter/X, but I think that it&#8217;s hard to find things over there these days. So WordPress.org/news is your best bet. Now, it is time for the small list of big things.\n\n\n\nSo, first up on my list is that WordPress 6.5.5 is now available. It&#8217;s got a few fixes in it, some maintenance things and some security fixes as well. I recommend that you update your sites immediately. You can download it from WordPress.org/download, or you can just visit your WordPress dashboard. If you&#8217;re on a managed host, they may have already done this for you, too. But auto-updates, manual updates, CLI updates. However, you want to get it done, get it done. But it is recommended to do this as soon as possible. 6.5.5.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:27:16] Josepha: The second thing on my list is that the WordPress Contributor Mentorship program has a call for interest out. This is a program that we launched about a year ago as well. And we had such a good bit of success at the end of the first round in February that there was significant interest in doing another cohort. So, that program connects seasoned WordPress contribution experts with folks who are new to contributing and offer a fantastic opportunity for mentees to gain hands-on experience contributing to WordPress while their mentors share their expertise and improve their leadership skills. So, most of the time, what you are going to be contributing to is probably a release of WordPress, but there are also a lot of opportunities to contribute to things like the Training Team that we&#8217;ve been talking about today and other teams as well. Not everything is focused all around our release cycle. We have things happening in the WordPress project literally all the time. It is a project that never sleeps.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:28:17] Josepha: Speaking of projects that never sleep, our next official release, our second release of the year, is coming out. WordPress 6.6 is coming out just about a week from now. It is the second major release of 2024 and has a lot of things in it that you will want to check out. If you have not yet seen the hallway hangout where we take a look at what was happening in the release, what we intended to get into the release, take a look at it. And if you haven&#8217;t tested it yet, if you are one of our plugin developers, if you are building something on top of WordPress core, now is the time to check that out and test it against your products.\n\n\n\nAnd then the final thing is that it&#8217;s a new month, my friends. Here we are in July, and we have a ton of things happening in the project. That&#8217;s the theme of my small list of big things: the project that never sleeps. But we have a lot of team meetings that are happening. If you haven&#8217;t attended one in a while or even if you have never attended one of these meetings and you were trying to figure out when to start, now is as good a time as any. You can join your fellow community members and contribute to the WordPress project. And there are ways that you can do that from home and from your computer and for some parts of the project, like from your phone, if you are taking photos out and about and submitting those. So check out make.WordPress.org/meetings. It&#8217;ll give you a sense for everything that&#8217;s happening. Do not get overwhelmed by that calendar. You can just choose which team you think is most interesting to you. \n\n\n\n[00:29:45] Josepha: And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Your small list of never-sleeping things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:30:15] (Music outro)\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17489\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"WordPress 6.6 Release Candidate 2\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-release-candidate-2/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 02 Jul 2024 17:09:27 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:5:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:4;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17469\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:345:\"WordPress 6.6 RC2 is ready for download and testing! This version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC2 on a test server or a local environment. Reaching this phase of the release cycle is a [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"marybaum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10955:\"\nWordPress 6.6 RC2 is ready for download and testing!\n\n\n\nThis version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC2 on a test server or a local environment.\n\n\n\nReaching this phase of the release cycle is a worthy achievement. While release candidates are considered ready for release, your testing is still vital to make sure everything in WordPress 6.6 is the best it can be.\n\n\n\nYou can test WordPress 6.6 RC2 in four ways:\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6-RC2.zip\">RC2 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.6-RC2</code></td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22beta%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20[%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20]%20%7D\">6.6 RC2 WordPress Playground instance</a> (available within 35 minutes after the release is ready) to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup.</td></tr></tbody></table><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Please test WordPress 6.6 RC2 in one or more of these four ways.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\nThe target for the WordPress 6.6 release is July 16, 2024. Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">6.6 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-6/\">6.6-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in WordPress 6.6 RC2?</h2>\n\n\n\nThanks to your testing and many other contributors‘ up to now, this release includes more than 19 bug fixes for the Editor and more than <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">20 tickets for WordPress Core</a>.\n\n\n\nGet a recap of WordPress 6.6’s highlighted features in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-beta-1/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">Beta 1 announcement</a>. For more technical information related to issues addressed since Beta 3, you can browse the following links:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.6?since=2024-06-24&amp;until=2024-06-30\">GitHub commits for 6.6</a> since June 25</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">Closed Trac tickets</a> since June 25</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWant to look deeper into the details and technical notes for this release? You might want to make your first stop <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">The WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a>. Then, check out this list:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/roster-of-design-tools-per-block-wordpress-6-6-edition/\">Roster of design tools per block (WordPress 6.6 edition)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/hallway-hangout-section-styles-and-other-block-style-variation-updates/\">Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/recap-hallway-hangout-exploring-grid-layouts/\">Recap Hallway Hangout: Exploring Grid Layouts</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/28/editing-custom-fields-from-connected-blocks/\">Editing custom fields from connected blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/28/updates-to-the-interactivity-api-in-6-6/\">Updates to the Interactivity API in 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes+6-6/\">All 6.6-related developer notes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">You can contribute. Here&#8217;s how</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress is the world’s most popular open source web platform, thanks to a passionate community of people who collaborate on its development in a wide variety of ways. You can help—whether or not you have any technical expertise.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved in testing</h3>\n\n\n\nTesting for issues is critical to keeping WordPress speedy, stable, and secure. It’s also a vital way for anyone to contribute. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17392\">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.6. If you&#8217;re new to testing, follow <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">this general testing guide</a> for more details on getting set up.\n\n\n\nIf you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can also report it on <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a>. Before you do either, you may want to check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.\n\n\n\nCurious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Search for vulnerabilities</h3>\n\n\n\nFrom now until the final release candidate of WordPress 6.6 (scheduled for July 9), the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/06/04/wordpress-6-6-is-coming/\">financial reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a> doubles. Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies outlined on the <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\">HackerOne page</a> and in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/security/\">security white paper</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Update your theme or plugin</h3>\n\n\n\nIf you build themes, plugins, blocks, or patterns, your products play an integral role in extending the functionality and value of WordPress for all users. \n\n\n\nThanks for continuing to test your products with the WordPress 6.6 beta releases. With RC2, you’ll want to finish your testing and update the “Tested up to” version in your <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/how-your-readme-txt-works/\">plugin’s readme file</a> to 6.6.\n\n\n\nIf you find compatibility issues, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forum</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Help translate WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\nDo you speak a language other than English? <bdo lang=\"es\" dir=\"ltr\">¿Español?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"fr\" dir=\"ltr\">Français?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"ru\" dir=\"ltr\">Русский</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"ja\" dir=\"ltr\">日本</bdo>語? <bdo lang=\"hin\" dir=\"ltr\">हिन्दी</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"bn\" dir=\"ltr\">বাংলা</bdo>? You can <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev/\">help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Release the haiku</h2>\n\n\n\n6.6 draws near. In two weeks the final&#8217;s here. Test. Test. Then test more.\n\n\n\nProps to <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\' class=\'mention\'>@juanmaguitar</a>, <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\' class=\'mention\'>@meher</a>, <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\' class=\'mention\'>@desrosj</a> and <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\' class=\'mention\'>@atachibana</a> for peer review.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17469\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"WordPress 6.6 Release Candidate 1\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-release-candidate-1/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 25 Jun 2024 16:23:50 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:5:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:3:\"6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:3;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:4;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17429\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:356:\"The first release candidate (RC1) for WordPress 6.6 is ready for download and testing! This version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC1 on a test server or a local environment. Reaching this phase of [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"marybaum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11225:\"\nThe first release candidate (RC1) for WordPress 6.6 is ready for download and testing!\n\n\n\nThis version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC1 on a test server or a local environment.\n\n\n\nReaching this phase of the release cycle is a worthy achievement. While release candidates are considered ready for release, testing is still vital to make sure everything in WordPress 6.6 is the best it can be.\n\n\n\nYou can test WordPress 6.6 RC1 in four ways:\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6-RC1.zip\">RC1 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.6-RC1</code></td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22beta%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20[%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20]%20%7D\">6.6 RC1 WordPress Playground instance</a> (available within 35 minutes after the release is ready) to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup.</td></tr></tbody></table><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Please test WordPress 6.6 RC1 in one or more of these four ways.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\nThe current target for the WordPress 6.6 release is July 16, 2024. Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">6.6 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-6/\">6.6-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Two notes about changes in the RC period</h2>\n\n\n\nHard string freeze: From now until July 16, there is a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/handbook/glossary/#hard-freeze\">hard string freeze</a> in place—no strings may change, and no new strings may be committed. That&#8217;s to give the Polyglots team time to translate WordPress 6.6 into as many languages as possible before final release.\n\n\n\nTwo-committer signoff: Commits in the RC period also require two Core committers to sign off on every merge. Since release candidates are supposed to be ready to go, only major fixes and blessed tasks should merge at this late date.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in WordPress 6.6 RC1?</h2>\n\n\n\nThanks to your testing and many other contributors‘ up to now, this release includes more than 40 bug fixes for the Editor and more than <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=02%2F27%2F2024..03%2F05%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.5&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">40 tickets for WordPress Core</a>.\n\n\n\nGet a recap of WordPress 6.6’s highlighted features in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-beta-1/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">Beta 1 announcement</a>. For more technical information related to issues addressed since Beta 3, you can browse the following links:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.6?since=2024-06-18&amp;until=2024-06-24\">GitHub commits for 6.6</a> since June 18</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=06%2F18%2F24..06%2F24%2F2024&amp;milestone=6.6&amp;max=1000&amp;col=id&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=priority&amp;order=id\">Closed Trac tickets</a> since June 18</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWant to look deeper into the details and technical notes for this release? These recent posts cover some of the latest updates:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/21/wordpress-6-6-css-specificity/\">WordPress 6.6 CSS Specificity</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/site-wide-background-images-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Site-wide background images in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/24/section-styles/\">Section Styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/roster-of-design-tools-per-block-wordpress-6-6-edition/\">Roster of design tools per block (WordPress 6.6 edition)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">The WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes-6-6/\">All 6.6-related developer notes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How you can contribute</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress is open source software made possible by a passionate community of people who collaborate on and contribute to to its development. The resources below outline a wide variety of ways you can help the world’s most popular open source web platform, whether or not you have any technical expertise.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved in testing</h3>\n\n\n\nTesting for issues is critical to making sure WordPress is speedy and stable. It’s also a vital way for anyone to contribute. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17392\">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.6. If you&#8217;re new to testing, follow <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\" data-type=\"post\" data-id=\"17289\">this general testing guide</a> for more details on getting set up.\n\n\n\nIf you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can also report it on <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a>. Before you do either, you may want to check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.\n\n\n\nCurious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Search for vulnerabilities</h3>\n\n\n\nFrom now until the final release candidate of WordPress 6.6 (scheduled for July 16), the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/security/2024/06/04/wordpress-6-6-is-coming/\">monetary reward for reporting new, unreleased security vulnerabilities</a> doubles. Please follow responsible disclosure practices as detailed in the project’s security practices and policies outlined on the <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress\">HackerOne page</a> and in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/security/\">security white paper</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Update your theme or plugin</h3>\n\n\n\nIf you build themes, plugins, blocks or patterns, your products play an integral role in extending the functionality and value of WordPress for all users.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThanks for continuing to test your themes and plugins with the WordPress 6.6 beta releases. With RC1, you’ll want to finish your testing and update the “Tested up to” version in your <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/how-your-readme-txt-works/\">plugin’s readme file</a> to 6.6.\n\n\n\nIf you find compatibility issues, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forum</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Help translate WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\nDo you speak a language other than English? <bdo lang=\"es\" dir=\"ltr\">¿Español?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"fr\" dir=\"ltr\">Français?</bdo> <bdo lang=\"ru\" dir=\"ltr\">Русский</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"ja\" dir=\"ltr\">日本</bdo>語? <bdo lang=\"hin\" dir=\"ltr\">हिन्दी</bdo>? <bdo lang=\"bn\" dir=\"ltr\">বাংলা</bdo>? You can <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev/\">help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Release the haiku</h2>\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;re here already? RC1 means three weeks left. Have some fun—come test!\n\n\n\nProps to <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\' class=\'mention\'>@meher</a>, <a href=\'https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\' class=\'mention\'>@audrasjb</a> for collaborating on this post.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17429\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:6:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:15:\"WordPress 6.5.5\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-5-5/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 24 Jun 2024 19:10:30 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:3:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Releases\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"Security\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:2;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"development\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17426\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:377:\"WordPress 6.5.5 is now available! This release features three security fixes. Because this is a security release, it is recommended that you update your sites immediately. This minor release also includes 3 bug fixes in Core. You can download WordPress 6.5.5 from WordPress.org, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”. [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Aaron Jorbin\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5127:\"\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.5.5 is now available!</h2>\n\n\n\nThis release features three security fixes. Because this is a security release, it is recommended that you update your sites immediately. This minor release also includes <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?component=!Build%2FTest+Tools&amp;milestone=6.5.5&amp;col=id&amp;col=summary&amp;col=owner&amp;col=type&amp;col=status&amp;col=priority&amp;col=component&amp;order=priority\">3 bug fixes</a> in Core.\n\n\n\nYou can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.5.5.zip\">download WordPress 6.5.5 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”. If you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.5.5 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be version 6.6 which is scheduled for July 16, 2024.\n\n\n\nFor more information on WordPress 6.5.5, please visit the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/wordpress-version/version-6-5-5/\">HelpHub site</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Security updates included in this release</h2>\n\n\n\nThe security team would like to thank the following people for <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/wordpress?type=team\">responsibly reporting vulnerabilities</a>, and allowing them to be fixed in this release:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>A cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability affecting the HTML API reported by Dennis Snell of the WordPress Core Team, along with Alex Concha and Grzegorz (Greg) Ziółkowski of the WordPress security team.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A cross-site scripting (XSS) vulnerability affecting the Template Part block reported independently by Rafie Muhammad of Patchstack and during a third party security audit.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>A path traversal issue affecting sites hosted on Windows reported independently by Rafie M &amp; Edouard L of Patchstack, David Fifield, <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/x89\">x89</a>, <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/apple502j\">apple502j</a>, and <a href=\"https://hackerone.com/mishre\">mishre</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\nThis release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a>.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.5.5 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance and security fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xknown\">Alex Concha</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz\">Andrew Ozz</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter\">bernhard-reiter</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev\">Colin Stewart</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell\">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin\">Grant M. Kinney</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo\">Greg Ziółkowski</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb\">Matias Ventura</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mcsf\">Miguel Fonseca</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc\">Peter Wilson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rajinsharwar\">Rajin Sharwar</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code\">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\nTo get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> Slack channel. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/tutorials/faq-for-new-contributors/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.\n\n\n\nAlready testing WordPress 6.6? The fourth beta is now available (<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6-beta4.zip\">zip</a>) and it contains these security fixes. For more on 6.6, see the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-beta-3/\">beta 3 announcement post</a>. Learn more about <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\">testing WordPress 6.6 here</a>.\n\n\n\nProps to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulkevan/\">Paul Kevan</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ehtis/\">Ehtisham Siddiqui</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xknown/\">Alex Concha</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a>, and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a> for reviewing.\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:30:\"com-wordpress:feed-additions:1\";a:1:{s:7:\"post-id\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"17426\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:61:\"\n		\n		\n		\n		\n		\n				\n		\n		\n\n					\n										\n					\n		\n		\n\n			\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:4:{s:0:\"\";a:7:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"WP Briefing: Episode 82: WCEU Hallway Track\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:65:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/episode-82-wceu-hallway-track/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 24 Jun 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"category\";a:2:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7:\"Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}i:1;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"wp-briefing\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17409\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:1:{s:11:\"isPermaLink\";s:5:\"false\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:312:\"Big events create big moments, and WordCamp Europe 2024 was no exception. Join host Josepha Haden Chomphosy on this episode of the WordPress Briefing as she shares her top insights and favorite highlights from the event. Discover what the WordPress community focused on during this exciting three-day gathering.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:9:\"enclosure\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:0:\"\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:3:{s:3:\"url\";s:51:\"https://wordpress.org/news/files/2024/06/WPB082.mp3\";s:6:\"length\";s:1:\"0\";s:4:\"type\";s:0:\"\";}}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:40:\"http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/\";a:1:{s:7:\"encoded\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10086:\"\nBig events create big moments, and WordCamp Europe 2024 was no exception. Join host Josepha Haden Chomphosy on this episode of the WordPress Briefing as she shares her top insights and favorite highlights from the event. Discover what the WordPress community focused on during this exciting three-day gathering.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\nHost:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a> Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a> Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a> Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/\">WordCamp Europe</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Small List of Big Things\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 RC1 (and upcoming schedule)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/project/2024/05/31/wordpress-project-contributor-handbook-v2/\">WordPress Project Contributor Handbook v2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/sustainability/2024/06/12/the-sustainability-teams-handbook-for-events-is-here/\">The Sustainability Team’s Handbook for Events&nbsp;is here!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/volunteering-at-wordcamp-us-2024/\">Volunteering at WordCamp US 2024</a>&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n[00:00:00]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go.\n\n\n\n[00:00:28] (Intro music)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:40]&nbsp;Josepha: My friends, another WordCamp Europe is in the books. We had the second-highest number of tickets sold in the history of our event series, with the first being WordCamp Europe in Berlin. But even with that number of tickets sold, that number of people gathering together to talk about WordPress and related things, there were still a lot of people who didn&#8217;t get to join us.\n\n\n\n[00:01:01] Josepha: For some, that came with experiencing FOMO, but some of you embraced the JOMO of it all. Either way, at this point, there are a good collection of wrap-ups and round-ups going around, so I&#8217;m here to tell you a bit about what was buzzing in the hallway track.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nFirstly, everyone was so excited to see old friends and make new ones. Everywhere I turned, I saw WordPressers in clusters catching up, most included new to the crew faces. So we know that we were using the Pac-Man rule that we love so much. But even while they were catching up on the last two, three, four years, they were also talking to each other about how to get more folks to things like this. \n\n\n\nSince we all generally agree that your first time meeting other WordPressers can be a truly pivotal moment in your WordPress journey, it was a delight to hear so much brainstorming focused on that. From mentorship to community introduction and the future of our events, the question of how to keep our ecosystem healthy and thriving was a big topic. Does any one of us have all the answers to this? No, but fortunately, we&#8217;ve got a global set of thinkers working on this global question. So, together, I&#8217;m sure we can come up with some good guesses to try out.\n\n\n\n[00:02:21] Josepha: Secondly, I saw a ton of talks and discussions about career development, not only about how to learn more but also how to be a champion for open source in your company, how to advocate for contribution as a best business practice. And what other communities can teach us about how they commit to their user&#8217;s continuing education, for lack of a friendlier term.\n\n\n\nAnd boy, do I love a good conversation about how to make working in open source easier, make it more meaningful, and more impactful. I&#8217;m in favor of anything that helps to dignify our profession. The front-facing, easy-to-use experience of WordPress, in particular, has been misunderstood to mean that we are a simple piece of software for simple tasks. And that is the way with our mission really. If we succeed at democratizing publishing or learning or commerce for that matter, we are taking the arcane and making it mundane. But simple to use doesn&#8217;t mean simple to create. And I want all of our future employers and clients to see that.\n\n\n\n[00:03:24] Josepha: And then the final thing that I saw lighting up the hallway track was the idea of bringing life and excitement back to the web. WordPress has been fighting against closed systems for a long time, but as Matt alluded to in his keynote, merely having an open web is still not quite as fun as having an active and dynamic one. And we saw that both in general desire to bring fun back to being online, but also in the fresh variety of demos and workshops that we saw in the fun that was brought to the event. There were new and shocking implementations of Playground, I must say. Which, as far as I can tell, will basically be able to run everything one day.\n\n\n\n[00:04:03] Josepha: But at WordCamp Europe, it ran; it powered our second massive hybrid translation event, where we translated something like 50,000 strings. We also had an amazing speed-building duel with an accepted future challenge between Jessica Lyschik and Matt Mullenweg. And not for nothing; the way we designed; the way the event area was put together included ways to stop and just have fun.\n\n\n\nThere was a little grassy area with yard games and smaller pods of chairs for those quick hallway catch-ups that you just don&#8217;t get anywhere else. And for me, it was simply lovely to see everyone embracing the fun that was there, but also hearing about how much they wanted to help the web embrace the fun that could be.\n\n\n\n[00:04:48] (Music interlude)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:04:55] Josepha: Thanks for listening to my hallway track recap. Hopefully, it caused JOMO, not FOMO. And now, let&#8217;s turn our attention to the small list of big things.\n\n\n\n[00:05:05] Josepha: First thing on my list is WordPress 6.6 update. So we are reaching the release candidate phase tomorrow. WordPress 6.6 RC1 will be released, so download and join the community helping us to get this release out the door. It is scheduled for July 16th. If you have plugins or themes or any sort of business that uses WordPress, now is the time to get in and test it on a test site. I don&#8217;t recommend putting it in production at any point, but come and test it. Help us break it so that we can make sure that it doesn&#8217;t break for other people, for the, you know, 43% of the web that uses it when we get it out the door on the 16th.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThe second thing on the list is that we have a WordPress Project Contributor Handbook V2 out there. It aims to be the quintessential resource for everyone in our community. And it will provide a bird&#8217;s eye view of where to find key information and different aspects of our community. How it all kind of connects together. And, just like a release, we really need some feedback from you. There is the repo on GitHub where you can go and kind of make inline comments, join the discussion about it. It can be a go-to resource if we look at it together and make sure that it has as much information as clearly stated as you wished you had when you were learning your way around WordPress for the first time.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:06:27] Josepha: The third thing on the list is actually another handbook. So, the Sustainability Team has put together a handbook specifically for events. It&#8217;s their first version, and over the past few months, members of that team have been sharing their ideas and experiences on how WordPress community events can be held more sustainably. All this input created a first draft, which eventually became this first version. And so we&#8217;ll put a link in the show notes, wander over there, take a look at it, see what some best practices for sustainable events are in the WordPress ecosystem.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:07:02] Josepha: And then the final thing on my list is about WordCamp US. I realize this is a podcast about WordCamp Europe right now. And so it&#8217;s odd to think that I&#8217;m moving right along into WordCamp US. However, there is a deadline coming up. July 1st is the last day to sign up to be a volunteer at this event. It&#8217;s taking place this year in Portland, Oregon, on the west side of the US. And it should be a really fun time. It&#8217;s middle of September. Come on out there. Learn about WordPress. Learn about contribution. Maybe get some voodoo donuts. You know, the important things.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAnd that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I am your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. 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http://planet.wordpress.org/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"item\";a:50:{i:0;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"Do The Woo Community: Investing Into Proactive Customer Service with Scott Shapely\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85099\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"https://dothewoo.io/investing-into-customer-service-with-scott/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45643:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-6 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-5 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-1 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-2 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-1 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-1 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, Omnisend is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-2 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-4 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-3 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-3 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"525\" height=\"525\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Airwallex.jpg?resize=525%2C525&ssl=1\" alt=\"Airwallex\" class=\"wp-image-80258\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://www.airwallex.com/integrations/woocommerce?utm_source=701Nn000009vJ0mIAE\">Airwallex</a>: With Airwallex merchants are no longer forced to convert their foreign incoming payments into their home market currencies and they can use the funds to pay suppliers internationally.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nAdam: Hey everyone, this is Adam Weeks from BizChat. Unfortunately, I am not joined by my lovely co-host, Emma Young. She is out of town, busy doing all kinds of stuff, jet-setting around the world. So you are stuck with me as your host. But good news for you. I have a really exciting guest today, Scott Stapley. He is a founder at BigScoots. You may not have heard of them before, but they&#8217;ve been around for quite a while and instead of me just telling you about them, hey Scott, welcome. It&#8217;s good to meet you.\n\n\n\nScott: Good morning. Yeah, good to meet you too, Adam. Thanks so much. Pleasure to be here. Scott Stapley, CEO and co-founder of BigScoots, 15 years now, so it&#8217;s been a minute. Exciting though. Very exciting.\n\n\n\nAdam: I&#8217;m sure time flies when you&#8217;re having fun.\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, you tell me. Yeah, for sure.\n\n\n\nAdam: Well, Scott, in all transparency, this is kind of the first time we&#8217;re getting to meet each other, although I have met some of the people you work with and I met at CloudFest US. One of the things that really stood out to me when I was getting to know more about BigScoots and what you guys do was customer service or client service. I think more specifically, we&#8217;re going to get into some of the nuances of that. And so that&#8217;s what this episode is about. We call this the hook. We&#8217;re hooking people in. If people are curious and want to know more about customer service, client service, best in class, what should we do? We&#8217;re going to get into some of the interesting elements of best practices. Is it worth it? Is it worth the investment? When is it not? And I think people are really going to get some solid takeaways from this. But before we get into that and some of those takeaways, just kind of give us a quick introduction. Where are you at on this big planet and yeah, a little bit more about yourself.\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, thanks again, Adam. Looking forward to digging into all the nitty and gritty. Me, myself, I live a small life these days in Connecticut just outside of New York. In a previous life, I did a lot of traveling, had the opportunity to live overseas for quite a while with my wife, followed her around in her ventures. But BigScoots has been a labor of love for a very long time. It&#8217;s afforded me the opportunity to work remotely and just kind of deal with the odd business trip. So I&#8217;ve had the opportunity to really explore the world. In my younger years, I went to school for cell and molecular biology of all things. It&#8217;s not all too applicable these days, but it was a fun adventure at the time. But it&#8217;s been, you talk about a career path and sort of a journey to get here.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s just been, you talk a little bit about the topic being customer service. We classify it as customer success. We think there&#8217;s a lot that encompasses customer service and it&#8217;s more than just the client specialists, the account manager, or the sales representative, or whoever might typically fall within that usual role. And we&#8217;ve really kind of had the opportunity to spend the better part of those 15 years really kind of focusing in on that. So that&#8217;s been an adventure and my goal for that entire period of time is to build a business and a service around a very high level of customer success. So yeah, that&#8217;s me in a nutshell.\n\n\n\nAdam: Very cool. Yeah, that&#8217;s a great intro and I really appreciate getting that background. One of the things I love about the Do the Woo community in WordPress is it&#8217;s just chock-full of interesting people with just backgrounds that you wouldn&#8217;t have expected. Oh, microbiology. Sure, WordPress. Absolutely. Let&#8217;s put those together. We all have interesting paths. So let&#8217;s jump right into customer success. From a high level, how would you define it? What is customer success? What does that look like? Let&#8217;s start from your perspective, what does that look like?\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, and I think my perspective as a business owner might have a few facets that are perhaps a little bit different depending on the business that you might be looking at it from. For example, we have metrics these days. We have customer churn and revenue retention and these sorts of things. And you can measure client success in a certain type of way, but it&#8217;s not all too palpable. And I find having your finger on the pulse, ear to the ground, finger in the air, whichever one you&#8217;d like, is really the best way to understand the ebbs and flows of your business and make sure that you&#8217;re doing things right. If your goal is to deliver on your customer success goals, and in my case, for example, that means a lot of inbound leads. I&#8217;m spending a lot of my day on chats and sales tickets and just making sure that I understand what the customers are needing and how we can be doing better.\n\n\n\nI wrote a small bio on my LinkedIn like 10 years ago about my job being to understand what we do well and what we can do better. And I&#8217;d say that that&#8217;s still 80, 90% of my day. Naturally, the business still needs to be run. So there&#8217;s a huge portion of my day being spent elsewhere these days. But really understanding with boots on the ground in the weeds so to speak. I mean, that&#8217;s the words that I like to use most regularly. What is actually happening? What are those first words coming out of your sales team&#8217;s fingers, I guess. How are people being greeted? Is it done so in a manner that hits your ultimate customer success goals? And it takes a lot. It takes a lot. It takes an army, it takes a team, takes a village to really do that at every corner, especially when you&#8217;re such a high-touch business like a hosting provider where you&#8217;re effectively a problem dump. People effectively only reach out to you when there&#8217;s an issue. So making sure that you have the right frame of mind and all of the information that you could possibly have available to you to address issues, whether it be billing or support related is incredibly important. So building tools, proactive measures, really training our team, finding the right people. There&#8217;s so much that goes into it, but in the weeds is staying in the weeds no matter how busy you get is extremely critical.\n\n\n\nAdam: Awesome. What do you feel, why is it worth it to invest in customer service if someone was saying, Hey, we live in an age of AI is a big deal now, or we can just have lots of help articles, these are smart people, they&#8217;ll figure it out. Sell me on investing in customer service.\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, this could be a whole multi-hour talking in itself, but it&#8217;s ultimately what we chose to differentiate on. So it&#8217;s ultimately the core of our business. Why is our business successful in an otherwise contracting market? There&#8217;s a lot of other hosting providers who are really, really contracting in really significant ways and we&#8217;re not. We&#8217;re fortunate and lucky enough to be going in the opposite direction. And I think the core reason is what you just mentioned is our investment in customer success and our ability to sort of deliver on that. It&#8217;s not something that happened overnight. I mean you have to do it every day. You have to iterate a hundred times a week and you have to spend many, many years trying to perfect the client customer success lifecycle because it&#8217;s just so hard to do consistently every time. But if you do get it right, I mean you&#8217;re correct.\n\n\n\nWe live in a world of AI and automation and I think that&#8217;s exactly the reason why customer success is so important these days in client service because how many times have you had a random issue with whatever personal instrument or device or technology or whatever, whether it be your phone or your internet or what have you, reach out to the team, you get a bot in off hours, we&#8217;ll get back to you in four days. Here&#8217;s my email you may or may not get responded to. That&#8217;s just in my view, that is incredibly disappointing. If I have a problem, I would very much like somebody to hear me. I would love to be heard. I would love to know that somebody takes ownership over that problem and I would love for that person to actually be there present speaking to me and making sure that they understand the problem fully.\n\n\n\nAnd that&#8217;s what we deliver on is somebody right now you could open up our chat, or this could be four o&#8217;clock in the morning on Christmas Eve and you could speak to somebody, somebody would answer you within 60 seconds, most typically, and they would listen to you, they would hear your problem and they would aim to address it as quickly and as urgently as possible. And there&#8217;s just a freeing experience in my view, when you have that type of customer success or a customer interaction from the customer side. I mean, if you interact with a business and that business, you feel heard and you feel validated and you feel that your problem is actually going to be addressed and done so quickly, that just changes everything as far as how you look at a business. And I think in a world where everything is guide based and AI written and other hosts because they are contracting or maybe pushing margins in certain forms and fashions certainly not all hosts, but it is a difficult world right now, especially in our ecosystem and investing in customer success.\n\n\n\nThere&#8217;s a very large burden there from the host to take on as far as training and hiring and maintaining tools and informing your support reps and sort of having that level of availability. So if you can deliver on that, in my opinion, and I think we&#8217;ve seen that in our business sort of lifecycle, is that people really, really, really, really grab onto that and effectively never leave because it&#8217;s difficult to find that level of attention elsewhere. And we&#8217;re not perfect, but we do care. We care a lot and people know that, and I think there&#8217;s huge value\n\n\n\nin it for any industry hosting or otherwise.\n\n\n\nAdam: Interesting. Okay, great. Alright. You sold me. I&#8217;m a small business owner in WooCommerce and WordPress and yep, I believe that I need to do to invest in customer success. Where do I start? How do I get this going? I don&#8217;t have infinite resources. And if you were to take that use case, where do you start and then how do you build that out?\n\n\n\nScott: In our own world, I mean hosting, I don&#8217;t know, is all too different from a WooCommerce platform in the sense that there are still certain metrics and numbers and values that we need to hit internally. We were a bootstrap business. We started from the typical, here&#8217;s $20 and then it turns into a server and then the server turns into two servers and 15 years later we have our own data center footprint, but we very much were a bootstrapped, homegrown, invest the proceeds into growing type of model. And I think the difficulty for us, and I think maybe what you&#8217;re getting at is that there&#8217;s a point in time where it can&#8217;t just necessarily be you as the founder or if it is, you need to figure out is your time best spent here or is it best spent elsewhere? I was very fortunate enough to have an amazing technical founder, so my business partner and I, we had an immediate sort of splitting of responsibilities and I would attribute the great amount of success to that.\n\n\n\nI was able to focus on the business and sales and all the things in that respect. And my business partner Justin, he was able to focus on all of the technical needs of our platform effectively. So that really influenced quite a lot. So a little bit of help, to say the least, would be very helpful with respect to just understanding where your priorities lay and being able to focus on these sorts of things. But you do have to invest in it. There&#8217;s no question about it, and there&#8217;s no immediate return either. In our case, we had to really, really, really look long-term. We had a lot of really early conversations around, okay, this&#8217;s race to bottom budget market. If we bring on a hundred customers next week for a dollar, what&#8217;s that going to do to us three years from now? We have to support these folks.\n\n\n\nAnd I think there&#8217;s, there&#8217;s a business planning element to it. There&#8217;s good collaboration amongst your team and there just needs to be a priority focus. Where you invest and how you invest is going to differ depending on your industry and your location and everything else. In our case, it was invest in team as much as possible, create tools and as many monitoring tools as possible so we could influence our team members to be more efficient. So in our case, for example, as a host, we proactively monitor all of our websites. It&#8217;s something unique to BigScoot. So if your website has a problem, whether it be a resource issue, an outage, what have you, we actually know about it and we react to it. So that dramatically reduces the amount of inbound because we&#8217;re reaching out to you and fixing issues before you would otherwise reach back out to us.\n\n\n\nThat, for example, is a keystone in the way that we&#8217;ve been able to influence our support team and our customer success model because we&#8217;ve just been able to really scale service in a way that services typically unscalable. So I think you need to look at your space. How do you invest in it? I mean, it certainly depends on the particular ecosystem, but having hosted a great number of WooCommerce sites over many years, e-commerce sites and the like, we can certainly identify many folks that have rolled out that sort of platform where they have a product, they have a service offering, whatever it might be, and they pivot more towards the service route of their business and they see growth because of it. And I think they do it in a number of different ways, but this is my story. I&#8217;m sharing how I delivered on it, but I think we&#8217;re in a world where customer success and customer service is just so, so valuable. So whatever you can, I think your dollars are just amplified so much more than iterating on product or offering larger inventory. These things are great and they&#8217;re necessary for business, but the things that really get people coming back in my view is a great experience with a brand or with a business, and that typically starts and ends with customer success, or at least it does in our world.\n\n\n\nAdam: So yep. Let&#8217;s say we&#8217;re just getting started and we&#8217;re going to invest in this. It&#8217;s grown beyond you as the founder, so you have a couple of options. I know that there are companies that you can hire that have a call center and you just contract with them and they&#8217;ll take care of you, and that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;ve chosen to do, I don&#8217;t believe. How do you hire for this? How do you staff something like this? Because that first person, that&#8217;s a big investment and you don&#8217;t want to get it wrong. What things have you done that maybe you feel are unique that have made your focus on client success to be successful?\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah. No, it&#8217;s a good question. I mean, everybody&#8217;s business is obviously different. I would say your first hire probably no matter what business you&#8217;re in, although I suppose some don&#8217;t qualify for this, but in most cases, or at least in our case for sure, your first hire relative to your size of business is always going to be your largest expense in almost any business lifecycle. Like the ability to bring on an individual to spend a full-time effort on your business and your business alone and kind of putting yourself in that frame of mind of you&#8217;re taking somebody away potentially from another business or you&#8217;re bringing them into yours and you&#8217;re doing that in a full-time. As a business owner and an entrepreneur, it&#8217;s kind of exciting and scary and you&#8217;re bringing somebody in, you&#8217;re putting all this money forward, you don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s going to work, and there&#8217;s no immediate returns on that person either.\n\n\n\nI mean, that person is servicing customers, they&#8217;re handling support tickets, they&#8217;re doing whatever it is you might need them to be doing, but the idea of what is their amplification within your business, it&#8217;s a scary thought. When is the right time? I mean, frankly, as soon as you can afford it, in my opinion. We were in a position where we were in college at the time. I mean, to add on to my story a little bit further, I mean, we used student loans to support ourselves while we built the business, and then we did the whole thing. We really invested in ourselves. So at that time, that&#8217;s when we actually brought on somebody is really early on. So we weren&#8217;t paying ourselves. We were actually paying our employee at the time. We had one employee still with us. By the way. It&#8217;s amazing to have them here with us as long as they have, but if you can afford to bring somebody on to support you, you most definitely should because that is going to really amplify and improve your brand image in many more ways than you think.\n\n\n\nThey will buy their direct work product, but also through just the random comments, the extra, catch it in an off hour where you may have otherwise been grabbing a sandwich. I mean, it is so easy to see the amplification of a great team once you have them sort of in your fold and you&#8217;re talking to them, you&#8217;re having team meetings, you&#8217;re seeing all the great ideas that they have after they&#8217;ve seen your clients and after they&#8217;ve seen your product. And it is just amazing to see the acceleration that you get once you start building an amazing team around you. And the earlier you can do that, the better. Now in terms of call centers and third party support and these sorts of things, I mean, there&#8217;s certainly a business model where that works. I mean, if we take a look around at most of our billion dollar competitors, I mean, they&#8217;ve created an entire conglomerates around these types of services and they&#8217;re able to drive pricing because of it.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s a winning scenario there for a lot of end users. However, there is just going to be a lack of ownership and a lack of care and concern that those individuals are going to have because they don&#8217;t live and breathe your product in the same way that an internal team member might. So it&#8217;s always going to cost you 3, 4, 5 times as much to bring somebody internal to you. But in my case, for example, we&#8217;ve had that person for over a decade, and that same person has become an extraordinarily key member of our team, has influenced so many decisions. And I mean, that&#8217;s just one example. I mean, every team member has their own influence in our team, but bringing that person on as early as possible has just allowed us to make more better decisions more often than we otherwise could have by ourselves. Having a call center, you&#8217;re not going to get that same type of experience. So that&#8217;s our position. But certainly there&#8217;s many.\n\n\n\nAdam: Yeah, it does go to the thing that the end of the day it&#8217;s about people and investing in people makes all the difference. Finding the right people for your team. When you&#8217;re looking for people who are going to fill that customer, that client success role, are there any specific attributes that you&#8217;re looking for? Is it technical? Is it they seem nice? What is it that you&#8217;re looking for?\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, a bit of both, but you need a good culture fit. Most certainly. I mean, our team is large enough these days that you&#8217;re always going to find great partnership, great collaboration with other team members around you. The key that we&#8217;ve found really for bringing people on, everybody&#8217;s human at the end of the day, and the more welcoming and the more collaborative and the more approachable you are as a business owner and as a team who&#8217;s onboarding that individual, I find the larger chance of success that that person gets acclimated and just loves their position and really gets on board with the company. And I think\n\n\n\njust sort of that human nature of really being welcoming and offering that person the opportunity that you would otherwise want to be offered if given that kind of turn of tables just influences that chance of success.\n\n\n\nMuch, much, much more. So when we&#8217;re looking for new hires, we really look for somebody who&#8217;s eager and motivated to get into something new, something that they might not have seen before, because that is ultimately the type of service we offer. We offer something different. We offer this really high touch, really handholding, we call it site-specific management where we&#8217;re actually logging into the WordPress platform. We&#8217;re influencing actually plugin changes and updates and stuck PHP processes and all the rest of it. And you really need somebody who&#8217;s motivated and eager to take those extra steps. Somebody reaches out to you with a problem, maybe they can&#8217;t log into their email, something a little bit more basic. Take that opportunity or take that touch point and that opportunity upon you to also, let&#8217;s take a look around. Let&#8217;s make sure their caching is enabled properly. Let&#8217;s make sure there&#8217;s no security concerns or outdated plugin or something that we could otherwise do more for them.\n\n\n\nAnd that person doesn&#8217;t necessarily need any additional technical expertise to be able to do that. But if they are eager and if they are motivated, that&#8217;s where you really start to see that winning combination. When we look for individuals, we certainly need the WordPress technical expertise and Linux system administration as well. Those are sort of the kind of keynotes of what we do here. However, we can train to a senior capacity because we have so much team collaboration, and ultimately it&#8217;s called a deep bench. We don&#8217;t have an influx of replied-to tickets. We don&#8217;t have this scenario where we don&#8217;t have time to spend with new onboards, so we can really spend the time and effort to train from a technical perspective. What we can&#8217;t do is get somebody excited about customer success and customer service in the same way that they might otherwise bring to the table. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;re looking for. I mean, that&#8217;s kind of a certain respect and non-answer, but we really, it&#8217;s hard to define that too. A resume doesn&#8217;t necessarily do it in interviews. Sometimes it&#8217;s difficult to really perceive, but if you can get the energy out of that individual, I mean that&#8217;s worth everything regardless of their technical position.\n\n\n\nAdam: Yeah, thank you. From the client perspective, I&#8217;ve got a problem, something&#8217;s not working, I don&#8217;t understand, and so I&#8217;m going to reach out and I want this problem fixed. I&#8217;m looking for a person, I&#8217;m looking for someone who&#8217;s going to fix it quickly, but I&#8217;m not necessarily looking to make a best friend. I just need this thing fixed. My business is in jeopardy, it&#8217;s late at night. I&#8217;m struggling over it. What are maybe some of the types of things you do? Are there any investments? Are there any tools that you&#8217;re using that maybe unique that can help a customer get their problem solved quicker? And I&#8217;ll even throw out some words like is AI, is there some tool there that might make it faster? You&#8217;re still dealing with a person or what types of things that are you investing in to make that experience? Or is it just no, this person is good and can answer your question. Any special tools or just curious about that.\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, so not to fire too many people up here, but AI is not smart enough to identify human problems and website issues to the extent that they need to be. I mean, there&#8217;s multiple variables. There&#8217;s a server level, there&#8217;s a site level, there&#8217;s a network level. You need start using edge components. You start using object caching. You start using site, page caching, cache, excluding. There&#8217;s so many elements to this that AI cannot really influence to that extent. What AI can be used for. I mean, just to specifically note on that AI conversation is it can digest data and spit out some great results. So in our case, the way that we&#8217;re leveraging AI, for example, is in a similar capacity to what you had just mentioned. So we have what I would distinguish as just support gold, like a golden bank of support tickets. We have over a million fully answered completed support tickets, and every single one of those has an extensive amount of detail in a lot of cases, very unique attributes to each.\n\n\n\nSo being able to digest that amount of data and spit out some key results related to a potential issue, all on the admin side, just to influence the atom, creative support efficiency, create tools. Understanding is custom scripts, custom excludes, RegX, whatever the case might be. We&#8217;ve probably seen it before. And AI can help accelerate support responses by just having a database that they can ultimately freely and a very flexible search. That&#8217;s really kind of full stop as far as AI is concerned. On our end, we feel very strongly that everything else needs to come from a human, however, tools can influence them. So AI is a tool the way that we see it. I mentioned proactive monitoring being a keynote. So for example, if you reach out to us, we would&#8217;ve identified we could slow chase the PHP logs. We could do these things in advance of you reaching out to us.\n\n\n\nIn an ideal world, in most cases, we&#8217;ll reach out to you. So that&#8217;ll fix a step there. But we&#8217;re influencing our admins by providing them meaningful data, meaningful tools, meaningful monitoring to be able to really accelerate and create efficiency around support. So we do a lot, there&#8217;s well over a hundred variations on these tools that we create. Happy to go into detail on all of them, but it&#8217;s really about, yes, it&#8217;s about creating tools, about creating monitoring, and that therefore influences customer success as well. If you have these tools and you have this efficiency, your response time goes down, your response detail goes up, and your ability to really solve problems for customers is that much quicker. I would also add that freeing of time and that efficiency is really a key way in which we&#8217;ve been able to amplify our service. So as an example, if a customer approaches us, I mean, a very common thing with WooCommerce being that WooCommerce is highly dynamic is that it eats up a lot of CPU resources within the hosting environment.\n\n\n\nCPU is going to be your bottleneck. CPU is also very expensive. That&#8217;s how everything is effectively classed in the cloud community is you have a certain level of CPU, you&#8217;ll get more memory, you&#8217;ll get outsized storage. You&#8217;ll be paying for these additional resources that you ultimately don&#8217;t need. PHP workers are also kind of couched within that as well. Ultimately, CPU is your core resource. Do you necessarily need to upgrade the CPU every time you have a slow admin page or a 22nd cart checkout? I mean, the answer is most definitely no. There&#8217;s a lot of different ways in which certain plugins interact with the cart. For example, are you caching or excluding the right things on various pages? Are you influencing the way in which PHP processes actually run or get completed? Are you creating the right optimizations in the database when you actually need to?\n\n\n\nI mean, all these things are best addressed by a seasoned system admin who has seen where WooCommerce and WordPress and Linux a million times over. It&#8217;s very difficult to acquire that type of high touch in the hosting world for reasons we&#8217;ve already talked about. But being able to reach out to somebody, have those people, have tools that have already informed them of these various issues and have the ability to dive deeper into them without necessarily taking support time away from other people is kind of the recipe to success as it pertains to customer success. So I mean, we originally started talking about customer success and how we&#8217;re able to deliver on it. We&#8217;ve really formed a whole business around it. I mean, creating tools, owning our own infrastructure, building out our own network. I mean, everything comes down to being able to offer better service, whether it be creating efficiency, opening up margins, whatever it is, it&#8217;s all coming back and reinvested into.\n\n\n\nAdam: So that is an interesting point that you brought up about and how I typically think of customer client success as we&#8217;ve been talking about, as I have a problem, so let me reach out to this company that I have a contract with because I need something fixed, something&#8217;s broken. And what you&#8217;re all mentioning is that, well, of course, yes, that in addition to we can reach out proactively and maybe solve something before it comes a problem. I imagine that there&#8217;s a couple of potential issues there with like, wait, why are they calling me? Are they just trying to sell me something? How do you think about this idea of proactively kind of being this partner in their business and helping solve problems before they become problems without being salesy?\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, sometimes it can be tricky. I mean, the hosting piece of it is interesting. So I mentioned to you the most critical issue and your bottleneck most typically in all WooCommerce-related problems comes down to CPU. If you could have an infinite amount of CPU, it almost doesn&#8217;t matter how poorly your theme interacts with various plugins in your checkout and so forth. But infinite CPU is not realistic. Also, as you scale your CPU into more cores to allow more visitors and more threads to interact with that CPU in the PHP, you&#8217;re going to end up with a much slower CPU clock speed as well. So it&#8217;s kind of like an inverse thought process. You upgrade your CPU, but what you&#8217;re actually ending up with is a slower responding site. Maybe the issue of the actual timeouts gets fixed, but it might take a ten-second load time to a 22nd load time, and that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re looking for.\n\n\n\nSo how do you address this? We have a baseline. So again, kind of all circling back to customer success, but we build and maintain our own infrastructure. We&#8217;ve been infrastructure providers. We haven&#8217;t talked about this, but we started out as infrastructure providers. We provided and infrastructure management for companies in the Chicago land area who at the time that predates AWS and\n\n\n\nAzure and what have you. So we would take what would otherwise be a locally hosted platform like a hospital or what have you, and it we&#8217;d manage that infrastructure and we would do it with this sort of enterprise level of service, saw the writing on the wall, and we pivoted towards WordPress because we love WordPress. We love the idea of building, working around folks who actually own and operate these sites and just working in this ecosystem. It&#8217;s where we want to be.\n\n\n\nWe knew that from day one, we took that enterprise platform and that sort of enterprise sales and service mentality brought it into WordPress, and that that&#8217;s kind of the starting to our customer success story, but owning our own infrastructure and being that infrastructure provider makes us unique. And that&#8217;s one of the key ways in which we deliver on WooCommerce in particular is because if you own and operate your infrastructure, you don&#8217;t have to deal with, let&#8217;s call it the cloud margin problem, where you&#8217;re getting a three or four X negative return on your CPU resource. So if you&#8217;re an individual, and what I mean by that is that if you scale up your, let&#8217;s call it just an AWS instance for the sake of just conversation, what you&#8217;re going to end up with is you&#8217;re going to end up with a much larger platform with resources that you otherwise don&#8217;t need and perhaps are not optimized to the extent that they otherwise should be. So are your PHP processes optimized? Your database is optimized, so on and so forth. If you build out your own platform and you do so with more CPU resources that are more resource efficient, in addition to optimizing the platform itself like the WordPress environment and WooCommerce, you kind of come at this from a double-edged sword where you optimize the running processes, but you also optimize the actual physical resources themselves. And just having that as a baseline creates a lot of proactive service improvements as well. For example, the salesy or marketing numbers that we use is if you were to reduce your footprint from a cloud-based managed WordPress provider to an infrastructure-based cloud-based, managed WordPress provider, you&#8217;re going to see about three or four times the resources for the same dollar spent. So it&#8217;s just sort of baked into the model to offer more service focused improvements, and that just comes through more resource efficiency.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s a lot of proactive services that we can do there, and that&#8217;s not really salesy or marketing, it&#8217;s just the nature in which our business operates. We&#8217;ve sort of taken what is otherwise a problem to manage the infrastructure. We&#8217;ve taken that burden on ourselves and we benefit the end user by providing that to them. We don&#8217;t charge them more, we don&#8217;t provide less reliability. We don&#8217;t take any negatives out of that. We just take that on as a challenge. We offer that, and in turn, it improves the service lifecycle for a customer as well. So I think there&#8217;s a number of different avenues that you can do that sort of thing in various different industries and ecosystems. You can own a piece of the problem that is otherwise deferred off to a third party or maybe the end user themselves. You improve it, you validate it, you own it for them, and it nets benefits to everybody. I mean, in your case, you get the service wins. So\n\n\n\nAdam: What I kind of distill that down into is be a partner, solve problems like they&#8217;ve, the customer has trusted you with this part of their business and being a good steward of that trust. Is that what I&#8217;m hearing?\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, certainly. I mean, I love the word partner. It&#8217;s what we use all this time. It&#8217;s what I use. We expect to be a partner rather than just a service provider. I mean, we don&#8217;t want to be the people that you just call once every 24 months because your credit card expires and you need to update your billing or something. We want to be somebody that you&#8217;re leaning on regularly, especially in the context of WooCommerce, because things are always changing. If you fix a problem with WooCommerce, like a lot of these websites, these heavy traffic websites that really have a lot of focus on performance. If you fix a problem, you could be let&#8217;s kind of turning the dials ever so slightly, a PP update, a plugin update. We have to remember that WooCommerce is a community solution. So every single plugin is created by a different developer that doesn&#8217;t necessarily test against other development pipelines and PP updates might, the plugin update might lag behind a PHP update. There could be any number of variety, even reasons why something might fall out of sync again. So just being that partner and just ensuring that you&#8217;re always there to be helpful is absolutely critical. For sure. I mean, customer success is not reasonably attainable or high level of customer success without meaningful partnership and really being invested in your customers.\n\n\n\nAdam: That&#8217;s very cool, Scott. Well, I feel like this is a topic that we could just keep talking about for a really long time. We don&#8217;t have a really long time. We&#8217;re wrapping up getting close to being done here. Before we do, if someone, like I said, we could keep talking about this if they wanted to, like Hey, want to get in touch with you at Big Scoots, I&#8217;ve got more questions. Scott, you said something on the Do the Woo podcast that really sparked my interest. How would they get in touch with you?\n\n\n\nScott: Me personally, I&#8217;m just as available as the rest of our team. Bottom right hand corner of our website, talk to a human. Hey, I saw Scott. I&#8217;d love to talk to him. You&#8217;ll find me separate to that, scott@bigscoots.com. Always happy to give out my personal email. I&#8217;ve always been chained to the hip as far as my email and myself goes. So if there&#8217;s anything I can do to help answer any questions regardless of coming over to Big Scoots or not, I mean, I&#8217;m just very happy to be a part of the community help where I can, if I can offer any advice or any help whatsoever, very happy to. But I mean, thank you very much for having me on. Always love talking about this stuff. As you can probably guess, pretty passionate about customer success. I mean, that&#8217;s how we built our whole business. So there&#8217;s a lot of mistakes that we&#8217;ve made over time. I like to think that we&#8217;ve had enough of a timeline to rectify those mistakes and improve on them quite dramatically. So time has been on our side. We&#8217;re excited to be here, excited to be in the community. It was awesome to meet you. I didn&#8217;t meet you, but James mentioned about your conversation that was awesome at CloudFest, so just happy to really engage, be more part of the community as much as we can. So just get in touch, reach out happy. Happy to help if I can.\n\n\n\nAdam: Sounds good. And hopefully we&#8217;ll be seeing some more Big Scoots at some of the different WordCamp and CloudFest events that are coming up here soon.\n\n\n\nScott: Yeah, WordCamp US will be there. If anybody else is.\n\n\n\nAdam: Portland&#8217;s going to be fun. Yeah, I just got my plane tickets and it&#8217;s going to a good time. Well, thank you everybody for joining us. This has been another episode of BizChat from the Do the Woo. We hope you guys have had a great day and that you learned something. We&#8217;ll see you guys soon.\n\n\n\nScott: Thanks so much.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Woo BizChat, host Adam Weeks welcomes Scott Stapley, CEO and co-founder of BigScoots. Scott shares his insights on the importance of customer success, defining it as a proactive approach that goes beyond traditional customer service. \n\n\n\nHe discusses BigScoots&#8217; journey from a bootstrap business to a major player in the hosting industry, emphasizing their unique focus on personalized, high-touch support. The conversation moves into the challenges and rewards of investing in customer success, the role of AI, and the significance of building a dedicated, motivated team. \n\n\n\nScott also highlights the value of being a true partner to clients, solving issues proactively, and maintaining a commitment to exceptional service. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nImportance of Customer Success: The importance of customer success is highlighted, emphasizing its role in long-term business growth and client retention. It goes beyond just solving problems; it&#8217;s about creating a proactive and personalized experience.\n\n\n\nProactive Service: By monitoring and addressing issues before they become problems, companies can enhance customer satisfaction and reduce the need for reactive support.\n\n\n\nTeam Investment: Investing in the right team is essential. Hiring people who are motivated and align with the company&#8217;s culture can significantly amplify customer success efforts.\n\n\n\nRole of AI: While AI can help with data analysis and support efficiency, the human touch is irreplaceable for addressing complex issues and providing personalized service.\n\n\n\nInfrastructure Ownership: Owning and managing infrastructure can provide significant advantages in resource efficiency and service reliability, especially for hosting providers.\n\n\n\nPartner Approach: Treating customers as partners rather than just service recipients fosters trust and long-term relationships. Being a proactive and reliable partner can differentiate a business in a competitive market.\n\n\n\nLong-Term Investment: Building a robust customer success framework takes time and consistent effort. The benefits include higher customer loyalty, better retention rates, and positive word-of-mouth.\n\n\n\nAdaptability and Iteration: Continuously iterating on processes and tools based on customer feedback and needs is vital for maintaining high levels of service.\n\n\n\nCustomer-Centric Model: A customer-centric approach, focusing on individual needs and tailored solutions, can lead to exceptional service experiences and business growth.\n\n\n\nCommunity Engagement: Engaging with the community and being accessible to customers can strengthen relationships and enhance the company&#8217;s reputation.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-stapley-0b519023/\">Scott on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.bigscoots.com/\">BigScoots.com</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 14 Aug 2024 09:06:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:1;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:50:\"HeroPress: A Journalist’s Journey into WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"https://heropress.com/?post_type=heropress-essays&p=7269\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:146:\"https://heropress.com/essays/a-journalists-journey-into-wordpress/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=a-journalists-journey-into-wordpress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10730:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"512\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/081224-min.jpg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Pull Quote: I’ve found a way to blend my love of writing and tech—and I have WordPress to thank for that.\" /><h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-small-town-girl\">Small town girl</h2>\n\n\n\nFriends and family who know me well aren’t surprised that I publish The Repository, a weekly email about WordPress.\n\n\n\nYou see, I grew up in Zeehan, a one-way street of a town on the west coast of Tasmania, the island that’s at the bottom of Australia. The population at the time was around 2,000 and everyone knew everyone.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nMy Dad worked at the nearby tin mine and my Mum wrangled me and my two younger brothers while working as a bookkeeper and volunteering at the local neighbourhood centre.\n\n\n\nDad loved gadgets. He was always following us around with whatever video camera was new at the time. He bought a CD player when they were first released (John Farnham was high on rotation). He also bought an Amiga 600 (I was obsessed with Golden Axe and Lemmings).\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\nIt wasn’t long before our computer was replaced with a Windows 95 machine. When Mum wasn’t doing her word processing, I was writing stories. I loved stories and had my heart set on working at a newspaper one day.\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\nAt 14, I started helping out with the weekly community newsletter. Locals would drop off their submissions at shops around town and then I’d design each A5 booklet in Microsoft Publisher, print them off and fold them. Locals could then buy a copy for 20 cents. It was fun for a while but man, folding and stapling several dozen copies was a chore! I received an Australia Day Community Award for my efforts.\n\n\n\nWriting and designing the newsletter led to playing with web pages and teaching myself HTML and CSS. Since we didn’t have the internet at home, I saved up my pocket money to buy those magazines you could get with CDs attached.\n\n\n\nAt 18, I went to university. I clearly recall speaking to a journalism lecturer at an open day about my interest in completing an arts degree with a double major in journalism and computer science. She laughed and asked, “Why would you want to do that?”\n\n\n\nI guess my Mum’s stubbornness also rubbed off on me. I graduated with my degree (and double major!) and went on to work as a newspaper reporter for Fairfax and later News Ltd. I loved working as a journalist. As much as I enjoyed reporting rounds and covering politics for a while, it was a joy and a privilege writing other people’s stories when I moved to community news reporting and editing.\n\n\n\nBut all good things must come to an eye. I eventually left news reporting, disillusioned that I was working harder than ever for a wage that would never buy me a house, and I was filing stories that were half-finished because they had to go up ASAP for social media.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-hello-wordpress\">Hello WordPress!</h2>\n\n\n\nIt was time to explore my other major. I landed a job writing for WPMU DEV, a main-stay of the WordPress business community. It was my first time working professionally with WordPress after many years creating websites for family, friends and community groups.\n\n\n\nI learned a lot. I had the writing chops and knew how to use WordPress (I’d come a long way since my hand-coding days!), but it was a baptism of fire learning to become a power user and create top-notch content for our mostly agency and freelancer audience.\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\nNot long after starting at WPMU DEV, I went to my first WordCamp, WordCamp Melbourne 2013. Walking into the event, I felt way out of my depth, especially as I’m an introvert attending alone. I stayed for a couple of sessions and then left.\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\nLiving in Australia, it’s not easy getting to WordCamps because they’re so far away! Not to be put off by my first experience, I went to WordCamp Europe 2015 in Seville, Spain, and had an incredible time hanging out with colleagues, meeting new people, and melting in the extreme heat.\n\n\n\nSuffice to say, WPMU DEV was a fun place to work, but eventually it was time to move on. I was ready to go out on my own and launched Words By Birds, a copy and content studio. I worked mostly with WordPress businesses, producing high-quality content, copywriting and strategies.\n\n\n\nOne of my favourite clients was MailPoet, headed up at the time by co-founder Kim Gjerstad. We clicked immediately. We’d both worked as journalists and talked a lot about starting some kind of newsletter together that focused on WordPress news. Eventually, we stopped talking and started doing. On November 8, 2019, we sent the first issue of The Repository to 49 subscribers.\n\n\n\nKim handled the business and marketing side of things while I focused on writing. We were a great team, and it’s a collaboration I’m very grateful for, especially in hindsight.\n\n\n\nNot too long into The Repository’s history, I took a few weeks off to focus on another important project. My son was born in February 2020, and you can guess what happens next. As the COVID-19 pandemic kicked off, it felt like the world went into hibernation with me. I happily spent my days at home learning to be a mum without the pressure of the outside world. It felt like great timing.\n\n\n\nWell, that lasted six weeks. Soon, I was back at it, writing The Repository. I read articles and scrolled social media during the week and spent Fridays writing. With a newborn often attached to me, I had to find creative ways to write. When my son was really little, I could pop him in a wrap and wear him while I typed at my kitchen table. I wrote while he napped. I wrote at night. I even wrote with only one hand when I needed to breastfeed.\n\n\n\nLike all good businesses in the WordPress space, MailPoet was acquired. Kim graciously gave me his share in The Repository and left WordPress to work on other things. It was also around this time that my career took a turn and I stopped working full-time in the WordPress space. For the next five years, I headed up communications and marketing for a creative tech company and then worked in local government, leading the design excellence narrative for the city where I now live, Melbourne.\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\nWhile my head was in other worlds Monday to Thursday, my heart was in WordPress and The Repository on Fridays. \n</blockquote>\n\n\n\nIt felt like both a privilege and a burden. I mean, who wants to spend their Fridays working to deadline? While I loved, loved, loved digging into the WordPress space every week and writing about it, I also loathed missing out on dinners with friends, long weekends away with my incredibly supportive husband, and – more often than not – working late into the night. Still, I continued to do it because I couldn’t let go (thanks for passing on your stubbornness, Mum).\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-cue-career-crisis\">Cue: career crisis</h2>\n\n\n\nAt the start of 2024, I was at a crossroads. The Repository was taking longer to write because news sources were drying up (I’m looking at you WPTavern) forcing me to spend longer researching stories and often having to write more to fill in the gaps. What used to take a day to write was taking two days to write. Meanwhile, my job outside of WordPress was fine but I wasn’t passionate about it. I was good at it but I didn’t feel good about it.\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\nWordCamps have a funny way of putting things into perspective. Amid my career crisis, I booked tickets to WordCamp Asia 2024 in Taipei, Taiwan, and I’m so glad I did.\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\nWalking into the venue, one of the first people I ran into was Adam Warner from GoDaddy, whose sponsorship of The Repository through the pandemic ensured I could keep it running. I met Birgit Pauli-Haack from Automattic for the first time and it felt like catching up with an old friend. I found myself sitting next to fellow Melburnian Lawrence Ladomery from WP BizDev at the marketing table on Contributor Day. I caught up with Lesley Sim from Newsletter Glue, whose perspective on business I greatly admire – she has a great way of cutting through the crap.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIt was fun meeting Nathan Wrigley from WP Builds in the media room (and fangirling over each other’s work!). I got a chance to sit down with the very impressive Miriam Schwab from Elementor. I later ran into Human Made’s Ryan McCue, another Aussie, who bailed me up in a cafe for an insightful chat after he saw my Repository-branded tote bag.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAt the end of day two, feeling tired and social-ed out, I went to the food hall at Taipei 101 for a quick dinner but ran into Guildenberg’s Jonathan Wold (and Lesley again!) who talked me through my business. Last but not least, on day two, I had the pleasure of having lunch with Bob Dunn of Do the Woo fame.\n\n\n\nYeah, yeah, I’m name-dropping. I met and spoke to a lot of people at WordCamp Asia, but it was these people – who I admire and respect – whose invaluable advice led me to realise I needed to go home and quit my job and get back to working with WordPress. So I did.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-the-future\">The future</h2>\n\n\n\nFast forward to today. I still publish The Repository. In fact, I’m expanding it to publish proper news articles on the website soon. The email newsletter isn’t going anywhere – after five years, I’m very much attached to it and can’t wait to make it shorter and punchier once I can link to longer stories on the website. I have a vision for the next 12 months and I’m excited to see how things pan out.\n\n\n\nI’d like to think my younger self would be proud of what I’m doing today. I’ve found a way to blend my love of writing and tech—and I have WordPress, and the generosity of spirit that defines WordPress people, to thank for that.\n\n\n\nAnd to that lecturer who thought I was silly to study journalism and computer science, well, who’s laughing now?\nThe post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/a-journalists-journey-into-wordpress/\">A Journalist’s Journey into WordPress</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 13 Aug 2024 10:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9:\"Rae Morey\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:2;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:91:\"Do The Woo Community: Diving into WordPress 6.6 with Insights from Mary Baum and Meher Bala\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85113\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:90:\"https://dothewoo.io/diving-into-wordpress-6-6-with-insights-from-mary-baum-and-meher-bala/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42208:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nAbha: Hello and welcome to the WordPress Way. It&#8217;s Do the Woo time yet again. You&#8217;re here with Abha Thakor and we&#8217;re talking about all things WordPress as you would expect. But more importantly we&#8217;re talking about the new release 6.6 just out and we&#8217;ve got lots of things to share. But also in this episode we thought we would answer some of the questions that you&#8217;ve all been sending in about how to get involved, how to get past the worry about getting involved, and also some of the tips from people who have been engaged in the recent processes. So a little bit more different than our usual release series, but at the end of the year in November, we will be doing a reflection on all the releases of this year and a bit more technical stuff too. So make sure you join us for that. In the studio today, we&#8217;re doing some globetrotting again, we&#8217;ve got Meher Bala joining us direct from India, and we have Mary Baum joining us from the US. Hello ladies.\n\n\n\nMary: Hello ladies. Hey everyone.\n\n\n\nAbha: So thank you both for joining. I know you probably had quite a lot of 6.6 in your heads for the last few weeks. Meher, you&#8217;ve been the release coordinator for this major release and the first time as a release coordinator, not just shadowing so much, been a very exciting time. And Mary, you&#8217;ve been leading Marcos and also being involved with some other component stuff, so it&#8217;s really great to have you both with us and we&#8217;re going to have some conversations today also about component maintenance and those who listen regularly to the show, know that we often talk about all the different ways that you can get involved with WordPress because it is our software and our project and that&#8217;s for everybody, wherever you are around the world. So we&#8217;re going to touch on those things a bit more.\n\n\n\nMary: Coming off a release coordinating of six five, I cannot be more proud of Meher who did an absolutely phenomenal job with the release of 6.6, and it was not easy and my heart just sings for the great job you did and for you in general, you are a rising star.\n\n\n\nMeher: Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to the show. Going from Marcomms to release coordinator, it&#8217;s different but it&#8217;s new. It&#8217;s something different in a release than doing Marcomms\n\n\n\nAbha And I think that&#8217;s one of the things we want to get across today is that you don&#8217;t have to just get involved in a release in the areas of where you are professionally working. It can also be in another area that you want to develop and there are so many jobs in release. It doesn&#8217;t have to be just on the squad. A squad is an amazing place to be, but actually it&#8217;s a whole community that brings the release together and there are so many opportunities and Maher&#8217;s going to share some of the testing ones a bit later in this show as well. So ladies, I&#8217;m going to start with some of my favorite things from the release and as previous docs co-lead and Marcos and having been involved in various other bits of the release this time, it was really interesting to be focusing a bit more on the component side and to see some of the things that people have been talking about and wanting and we haven&#8217;t quite got there as a community to achieve in previous releases, but to be in this, one of the things we&#8217;re going to start with is the site editor experience in WordPress because it really has transformed in recent releases.\n\n\n\n And I think that&#8217;s one of the things we want to get across today is that you don&#8217;t have to just get involved in a release in the areas of where you are professionally working. It can also be in another area that you want to develop and there are so many jobs in release. It doesn&#8217;t have to be just on the squad. A squad is an amazing place to be, but actually it&#8217;s a whole community that brings the release together and there are so many opportunities and Meher&#8217;s going to share some of the testing ones a bit later in this show as well. So ladies, I&#8217;m going to start with some of my favorite things from the release and as previous Docs Co-Lead and Marcomms and having been involved in various other bits of the release this time, it was really interesting to be focusing a bit more on the component side and to see some of the things that people have been talking about and wanting and we haven&#8217;t quite got there as a community to achieve in previous releases. One of the things we&#8217;re going to start with is the site editor experience in WordPress because it really has transformed in recent releases.\n\n\n\nMary: I just redid Support Inclusion in Tech website over the weekend, mostly the typography and I&#8217;ve still got a couple of things, but I did change the theme to 2024 and we were already on 6.6. I&#8217;m using the grid layout on the homepage, extensive use of the font library from 6.5, smoothed out and refined in 6.6, and we redid the header, we redid everything and everything is so much smoother. I&#8217;ve never redone an entire design in a day.\n\n\n\nAbha: It is a lot slicker and a lot quicker now with the new facilities that we have quicker.\n\n\n\nMary: And quicker and quicker, and things take the first time.\n\n\n\nAbha: Which is really important that when you get things that work when you first do it.\n\n\n\nMary: Yeah, yeah. Yes. As somebody who has tried to estimate how long something&#8217;s going to take and been off by a factor of five or ten, and then having to do things over.\n\n\n\nAbha: Also with the layouts. Mary, you&#8217;ve been talking about negative spacing. Do you want to share a little bit about why that is useful? Because as a term people might think, well what is that?\n\n\n\nMary: Well, as an example is that the way we&#8217;re doing testimonials. Winstina Hughes is the founder of Support Inclusion in Tech, which does pair up WordCamp speakers with funding to get them travel. So when you&#8217;ve been picked to speak then you can submit an application and get matched with a company who can underwrite your travel expenses on the same continent. So no flying over oceans at this moment to make the best use of the resources. But at any rate, we had testimonials on the homepage and we have the person&#8217;s name at one side and then underneath, which makes it a subhead instead of a kicker. Yes, I am a typography addict and to get the little subhead close enough to the headline that they fit together as a unit, we need to make the top margin on the subhead zero and sometimes we need to make the bottom margin on the headline negative just to get them close enough together. In other cases you might want to have two pictures overlapping. You need to have one or the other have margins that are perhaps negative one REM or negative two rems to have them open. Let&#8217;s say you want to do a Venn diagram, particularly a Venn diagram in a pattern, where you will have text inside the parts of the circle that overlap and the parts that don&#8217;t, that change. For that matter,\n\n\n\n you might have that as a locked pattern that you then or a synced pattern that you then can override by changing that text and just have that ready to go.\n\n\n\nAbha: WordPress 6.6 introduces these negative margins and the custom shadows, and it really does help you make those eye popping designs and because you can add them directly in the editor for the blocks that support those margin controls, you&#8217;ve got so much more flexibility. You could do this before with the theme JSON, which allows you to create all these overlapping elements, but to be able to do it in the way we can do it now is so much quicker. As Mary has said, it just keeps getting quicker and quicker. We also have these featured image blocks so that we can use customizable block shadows and all of this just helps us to make these pages look a little bit better, but also gives a little bit more control to our end users. Speaking of end users, if you are wanting to know more about how to do something or if you want to even write documentation for end users because you love a new feature, the documentation team will absolutely welcome you to come and help.\n\n\n\n And they&#8217;re still working on the documentation for 6.6 as they do at every release and their work is amazing and they have contributors from across the world, so do get in touch if you want to be put into contact with them and we&#8217;ll put the links in the show guide as well. I&#8217;m just going to go over to Meher. Meher, obviously in a release like this when you&#8217;re not just, you&#8217;re incorporating lots of the Gutenberg releases that have happened before and you&#8217;re hoping somethings will land, you keep testing. What is that like being release coordinator?\n\n\n\nMeher: Being a Release coordinator for any Word press release, it&#8217;s a little tough and exciting at the same time because you have to keep a track on what is going to land and what is not going to land due to any tech issues, which will cause a lot of sites to stop working or break. The role of the release coordinator just to check in with all the teams to make sure everything is on track. If something is getting pulled out from the release for whatever reasons, it&#8217;s informed to the world that before the release this is not going to be there. So people don&#8217;t have that expectation that they want to see this feature and the feature is not available.\n\n\n\nAbha: It is that moving feast, isn&#8217;t it? And it really is that live environment, which is amazing, exciting, very stressful at times I&#8217;m sure, but also being part of a bigger picture. So Meher, before you joined as release coordinator, obviously you work as a senior developer already using WordPress. Did you know what was involved in a release? Did you have a concept of how it came together, the amount of people that were involved and the amount of testing that it included?\n\n\n\nMeher: Right now, yes, because I have been a part of multiple releases in the past, but when I first came into the release in 5.6 in the documentation team, I was not aware of what goes into a release. I used to read occasionally the release parties but sometimes it gets too late at my end, occasionally just used to read it but not participate. But from 5.6, I became part of the squad. I got to know which teams are there, what roles individuals play, and how does the entire release take place. Becoming a release coordinator was helpful because I&#8217;ve already done a lot of releases as a Marcomms Co-Lead after 5.7. It was a new experiment.\n\n\n\nAbha: And I think it really does make a difference If you&#8217;ve shadowed before, I think I&#8217;ve been involved now in releases since 4.7 and every release you learn more and you learn from other people, which is one of the beauties of working and contributing to WordPress is that you have that opportunity. And the same with WooCommerce. We&#8217;ve got a fantastic community growing around us and Do The Woo and being part of that learning experience for yourself as well as others is a challenge, but it&#8217;s also very, very satisfying. So Meher, when you put together a release like the ones that you&#8217;ve been just doing recently, what&#8217;s the feeling when as a developer when you take your release hat off and you go back to look at the release. As a developer, what is the feeling that you have when you first find a new WordPress release?\n\n\n\nMeher: As a developer, once a release is out, for me it is like what new I can implement in my existing client site, how can I make it better or what can I propose to a new client who&#8217;s coming to me with issues from their website, how can I make things better for the end user? Be it e-commerce side, be it a block side, be it a magazine side, be it just a simple brochure side. So each new feature of any release helps me think how certain aspects can be better website and how it can help the user.\n\n\n\nAbha: So really it&#8217;s an opportunity. And do you think that looking at that, if you are a storefront with a website on Woo or a Cat blogger or anybody who uses WordPress, people who use it as their detailed international intranet, that releases present opportunities and maybe not for the immediate, but something that they can take up later on?\n\n\n\nMeher: Yes, not all the features help instantly, but there will be some features which will work as soon as the release ends and in the day-to-day life of a developer or a user or a person who&#8217;s just using WordPress to share their updates.\n\n\n\nAbha: Now I know Meher, you use a lot of the Gutenberg releases and some of them before they go into Core as well. What do you see as the main advantage for people now that we do get so many Gutenberg releases coming into core and being part of that major release?\n\n\n\nMeher: I have only a couple of sites which I use direct Gutenberg on, the others all features come when added to the WordPress core. For the sites which I&#8217;m using Gutenberg, it&#8217;s like an experiment to see what advantage will these bring when it&#8217;s added to the core.\n\n\n\nAbha: And I think that&#8217;s a good way of looking at it. It&#8217;s a way of helping people really understand what&#8217;s their experiment if they&#8217;d like to beforehand, but once it becomes part of core, it is much more seamless and having that is a great thing. So in 6.6 we have this automatic plugin rollbacks now and that plugin management that we have really does make it so much safer to be able to try new things, try the plugins. I&#8217;m going to go to you, Mary, because I know this is something that you&#8217;ve been really wanting to see in WordPress.\n\n\n\nMary: Yeah, I&#8217;ve tested it a bit and I have some involvement and been watching the ticket. The kicker is that it is not optional if a plugin update is an automatic or otherwise, but I think mostly automatic. If something happens and you get a fatal error with an automatic plugin update, it automatically will revert to the plugin version that worked. So there&#8217;s no reason not to turn on auto updates, and that in turn makes not only your site but the entire web more secure. It just does, and I&#8217;m saying that personally because the official position is not to claim that plugin updates necessarily make sites more secure. The fact is, well particularly now when a lot of security issues are not coming from automatic are not coming from outdated plugins, they&#8217;re coming from compromised credentials. The fact is that abandoned plugins, and in this case I&#8217;m going to mean, I&#8217;m going to say abandoned by the site owner who&#8217;s not updating them. The plugins are doing a fine job of keeping everything updated. If you for whatever reason are not checking in with your site regularly and plugins, updating themes, updating core, you do become vulnerable because let&#8217;s face it, at 43% of the web we are the open web&#8217;s last great hope. We are the open web, so it&#8217;s up to us to make it as easy as possible to keep sites current and to keep security up. It&#8217;s that simple and this is a way for upgrading everything to be a no-brainer.\n\n\n\nAbha Thanks Mary and Mary, you&#8217;re also a component maintainer. In fact, we both have a couple of components in common too. Can we both contribute to some of those maintaining, and I was very excited to see some of the bulk edit component maintenance items in this time and to see things that we&#8217;ve been really wanting to move forward actually getting there. So Mary, could you just share why people should volunteer to help on a component?\n\n\n\nMary: Again, it&#8217;s everything we can keep maintained and keep updated. We contribute to the security of the open web. Somebody once said to me, why do I volunteer my time to organizations I care about, because I am selfish and greedy, it makes me feel good.\n\n\n\nAbha: Also improves what we&#8217;re doing. So if you are thinking that there&#8217;s tickets that you want to see and they&#8217;re all in the same area, then have a look at what that component is. Is this something that you can help? There&#8217;s normally quite a few maintainers for each component. They all have different skills. Sometimes you&#8217;re just trying to get people to collaborate on something and help push something forward. Other times you&#8217;re looking at the code, sometimes you&#8217;re looking at patches. There is so much variety that you can get involved with, and we&#8217;ll put a link in the show notes to some of those places too and we&#8217;ll put a little bit of a guide as well about how you can get involved with that because at Do the Woo, we try to be part of that collaboration and encouragement journey as well.\n\n\n\nMeher: What I&#8217;m saying is, if you want to be a part of any component and you don&#8217;t know where to get started or you don&#8217;t want to ask question because you feel that it may not be the right appropriate question. But I&#8217;ll always encourage you to ask questions because all questions are great questions. There&#8217;s a lot of documentation in the handbook which helps a normal user or beginner user to get started with how to submit a patch or how to take a look at the number of components. We have because we have a lot of components which goes into the entire WordPress software. So just ask questions or just read the handbook and you get answers. Otherwise you can always put your questions on the Make WordPress Slack and someone will respond and guide you to the right documentation.\n\n\n\nMary: Also, the next time you&#8217;re in the Admin, click on what&#8217;s new and you&#8217;ll see four things. You&#8217;ll see the credits, you&#8217;ll see the four freedoms, you&#8217;ll see something else, but there&#8217;s a fourth button called Get Involved was started. That was a ticket that was opened more than 10 years ago by a friend of someone who was recently Marketing team rep, and it was just committed a year ago by one of our co-maintainers. So there&#8217;s another reason to become a component maintainer, and if you click on that button there will be a bunch of concrete steps you can take.\n\n\n\nAbha: Absolutely. And also if you&#8217;re in the Admin , you can see on the right hand side details of meetups. Now there&#8217;s WordPress meetups all over the place and all over the world and it&#8217;s a great way to get involved and find out more. And many of the meetups at the moment are doing features on 6.6, so make sure you check those out too. We&#8217;re going to have some links in the show notes too to a wonderful video by Anne &#8211; who normally joins us for these releases and unfortunately can&#8217;t be here today and &#8211; all about negative margins grid block and custom shadows and it&#8217;s well worth a look. There&#8217;s also a lot more resources about things like 6.6. There&#8217;s the Field Guide that comes out with every single release and that links to all the different documentation about items in that release. If you&#8217;re a developer, it is the place that you need to be.\n\n\n\n If you&#8217;re an end user, it&#8217;s a great way to learn and if you want to just start contributing to WordPress, it&#8217;s a wonderful place to actually learn how WordPress works and be part of that solution too. So for 6.6, there were 299 core track tickets and 108 of these were enhancements and feature requests. That&#8217;s quite a significant number. There were 16 tickets focused on performance, 24 on accessibility and 15 on modernizing code and applying coding standards. This is what it takes to go into a release. These tickets are from people all over the world, people who have contributed with different skill sets. We&#8217;re now looking at volunteers for 6.7. Again, we&#8217;ll put the link in the show notes if you think actually maybe I can get involved too. Like all three of the people who are on this podcast today, we&#8217;ve all shadowed, we&#8217;ve all been involved with testing and got involved in different aspects of a release. You need to only get involved in a way that has to suit you. You do not have to take on things that you&#8217;re not happy with or take up a commitment that you don&#8217;t feel that you could do at this time.\n\n\n\nMary: The way I got involved was sometime in 2018 or 19, I just started keeping my desktop Slack app open and I would look at it occasionally, like just with my left eye. And gradually I started seeing something that I felt like I could comment on or ask a question about, and so I did. And look at us three, now look at us four.\n\n\n\nAbha: There are lots of ways as Mary said to get involved. And for anybody who&#8217;s not sure how, we do love all of your messages after shows have been out and I know people have said about what are these notifications, what are these Slack channels? We will try to continue putting those links to that, not just in the Show Notes, but also we try to contribute in other slacks in the Make WordPress community. And also if your local community is wanting to do something and you&#8217;re not sure how, get in touch and we&#8217;ll try and help. And more importantly, we want to try and boost the voices of different communities that don&#8217;t always get airtime. So if you feel that yours hasn&#8217;t and you&#8217;re doing something exciting with a release or something exciting in WooCommerce, do let me know and I can be contacted through Do The Woo, on the Make WordPress Slack, or on Twitter on NonStopNewsUK.\n\n\n\n I&#8217;m going to jump back to 6.6 again because there are still a lot of features we want to tell you about. So I&#8217;m going to jump over to Meher. In terms of this particular release, we&#8217;ve looked at pattern management and one of the things that I thought was really good was that 6.6 makes it easier for users with classic themes now to manage the patterns on their site. I know you feel very strongly about WordPress keeping and allowing people who have older versions, to a degree, to still use it and to be able to advance and improve and update, but in a way that they feel supported. Do you think that&#8217;s how we&#8217;re going? Do you think that changes, like the ones in pattern management and classic themes, are going to help people to move over to things like the block editor?\n\n\n\nMeher: Yes. Having patterns support classic themes will encourage the people who are using classic themes to slowly and steadily think and migrate to full side editing, and make them a bit confident that what they do in classic editor, they will be able to do equally or more better with full side editing. So it is the hope giving to classic editor people that they will gradually with time move to full site editor.\n\n\n\nAbha: And I think having that pathway is actually really helpful. So if you&#8217;ve not tried Block Editor yet either in your WordPress or your WooCommerce environment, have a look at some of the update and it is, as Meher has really well explained, an easier route and will give you more confidence. The other thing that is also I know very close to Mary&#8217;s heart is this idea that you can mix and match styles now and colors and typography in WordPress 6.6. So before I just go to Mary on that, I&#8217;m going to give a shout out to the developer blog. So Justin Tadlock has done a wonderful feature on the blog which came out a few days ago, all about how to do this. It&#8217;s a great tutorial. I&#8217;ve been through it from both the editorial team but also trying it as a WordPress user and I&#8217;ve had great fun registering color variations and following Justin&#8217;s example of creating an emerald color palette. So that is the Developer Blog and it&#8217;s Developer. WordPress.org. And I&#8217;m going to just go over to Mary so she can tell you a little bit about why all these things and all these new typography and styles and colors make WordPress such a better tool to use.\n\n\n\nMary: I am a certifiable typography addict from the age of 14 &#8211; which is 50 years for me &#8211; and it has never been easier to use really quality typefaces. Google fonts, yes, and there are a lot of great typefaces on Google fonts. But there are also great typefaces on Adobe type and if you have any sort of creative cloud subscription, you have everything available to you on Adobe type and that&#8217;s slightly complex. But then there&#8217;s a new Monotype subscription where for various not horribly expensive amounts of a year, you can actually download font files that you can then upload to the font folder right in the font management interface in the block editor and has almost anything you want. I mean from major foundries like Monotype and Linotype, places that have been around for a hundred years. But also current contemporary foundries like Latino type and new places like set sales studios and any little type stand you want to follow from the current serif fonts with ligatures and loopy roundy type or brutalist or whatever.\n\n\n\n Just amazing. Those are now available in your WordPress site and you do not have the write one line of code that in queue a style, but you don&#8217;t even have to do that anymore. Furthermore, your admin clients and those people we call site builders who buy fonts, install it and buy plugins and install it, install them. Those people in the block editor now also can control the type and you can control colors and list any type you want in theme JSON. There&#8217;s a whole new world out there and frankly I should be in a 12 step program about all of it.\n\n\n\nAbha: It is a very exciting time in WordPress, isn&#8217;t it? And if you&#8217;ve never discovered it, this is the time to come and have a look at it and see how it can support your WooCommerce journey too. So also in this release, we have some lots of things on API. So do check out the Field Guide and the links will be in the Show Notes about that. Also, just a reminder that support for PHP 7.0 and 7.1 is dropped in WordPress 6.6. So the minimum supportive version of PHP from WordPress 6.6 is 7.2 0.24, but the recommended version of PHP for WordPress 6.6 remains at 7.4 or greater. So do check the backend of your website, see what PHP you&#8217;re running, if it&#8217;s controlled by your host, have a look if they can upgrade it for you. And it just as Mary&#8217;s talked about, it helps to make a more efficient and secure web as well. So I&#8217;m going to go back to Meher. In this release, as in all releases, we have improvements in internationalization and we also have lots of polyglots that are involved after every release. What do these volunteer translators have to do with a release?\n\n\n\nMeher: The volunteer translators help the release by translating the new version of WordPress into different languages because the 45%, 46% of the web which uses WordPress doesn&#8217;t always use English as a default language. There are many websites out there which uses WordPress in its own language. For example in French, in Hindi, in Spanish, in different languages. So when the release is published, the same English words have to be transmitted is multiple languages. So these translators volunteers help to translate and keep the release up to date so that when a non-English website which uses WordPress updates, it doesn&#8217;t break all of a sudden and from Spanish everything goes into English. It just makes sure that whatever language you are using WordPress in has the right language for the new version.\n\n\n\nAbha: Thank you Meher and a very, very big shout out to all those polyglots who have been working around the clock for many of them to translate the latest release, their work is just amazing and you can get involved with that too. See there&#8217;s so many ways you can get involved and we&#8217;ll put that in the show links. The show links are getting bigger and bigger at this rate, but that&#8217;s as we said earlier is how we like to do things at Do The Woo as we like to be part of your journey and hopefully learn alongside you but also help you navigate the learning process. Talking about learning there is Learn.WordPress.org and people who follow this show know that we love to highlight this and we&#8217;ll be doing something on this and focusing on releases in the summer as well. So do come back and see what we&#8217;re doing on that.\n\n\n\n Just a few quick hits on the release if you haven&#8217;t caught them already. There&#8217;s a new version of React and that&#8217;s available in WordPress 6.6. So do again check out the Field Guide and because this is the place that you will get all the details that you need about it, there is lots of preparation help too for the React 19 upgrade. So if you&#8217;re a dev and you&#8217;re not quite sure this is going to involve make WordPress, core has got it covered. One of the things that we often get asked is how do you get involved with some of these things when you work or you live in different time zones. So just with the two guests that we have on today, they are in completely utterly different time zones. Meher, what time is it for you right now?\n\n\n\nMeher: Right now as we record this podcast, it is 1041 PM.\n\n\n\nAbha: Meher and Mary, what time is it for you?\n\n\n\nMary: Quarter past 12pm, just after noon.\n\n\n\nAbha: For Bob and I on the show at the moment, it is just about quarter past six in the evening. So just this little microcosm shows you that you do not have to be in the same time zone. Some things can be harder when you&#8217;re not, but there is a proposal and it&#8217;s just been published by Joe McGill, the current core team rep about what time should the Dev Chat be for 6.7. We will put a link to that because they do want your views and also if you are not able to join anything like the developer&#8217;s chat or any of the live experiences that exist around a release, then you can contribute async and I&#8217;m going to go to Meher first. Meher, you&#8217;re often in a completely different time zone, I never can keep up with which time zone you&#8217;re actually working in the moment. But if you could share as some of your final thoughts, why is contributing async worth doing?\n\n\n\nMeher: The time for each release good for the Europeans as well as the Americans. It&#8217;s not really good for the Asians but for 6.7 as a lot of folks in the release are from the Asian countries. They&#8217;re trying and see if they can schedule the release parties in a better time zone for Asia. And if you can join those parties, you can come to know how the release cycle goes. If you cannot, you are always most welcome to contribute async. You can test out the release cycle and if you find some major bugs or your test website crashes or it just doesn&#8217;t load, you can always create a Trac ticket or leave it on the code channel. What exactly happened when you updated something and someone will definitely help you when it is a good time in the European American side, one of the reasons I encourage people to participate, whether async or at the given time the release is because you are helping the release be better when it is officially released. A lot of people say that there is a bug when a release happens, but if you want to help solve the bugs, come be a part the release cycle and let&#8217;s avoid that. Let&#8217;s try and see if we can avoid that as possible and make WordPress better than we did because that&#8217;s how we grow in the entire world.\n\n\n\nAbha: I love that answer Meher, thank you very much. I think that&#8217;s just perfect and as Meher said, it really is important. So Mary, you&#8217;ve worked in the US predominantly and worked normally in the US’s different time zones. What has it been like to actually work globally in the way that you have in core in other teams as well , and what do you think makes it special about WordPress?\n\n\n\nMary: One thing, it&#8217;s really efficient. I can draft a post, like a release post or a thing about coordination or a proposal in my evening and tell people it&#8217;s there on Slack and wake up to feedback when I work on the Dev Blog. Same thing in my afternoon and evening. People are often asleep, they wake up when I&#8217;m asleep, when I wake up, things have moved forward. That&#8217;s pretty nice and I know that it&#8217;s one thing that we think of across the project is essentially it&#8217;s a way to cover questions. Certainly on the support forums, it&#8217;s a way to get questions answered from users 24 -7 because everybody has different holidays, everybody has different days of the week that they&#8217;re unavailable. I mean even the concept of a weekend is different. There are people who are definitely off on Sundays and definitely off on Saturdays and definitely off on Fridays. And that means there are also people who start their week on Sunday and people who start their week on Monday. I&#8217;m not sure of anybody who starts their week on Tuesday, well me occasionally, and people who work at country clubs in the US, but it means that there&#8217;s always something happening and things are moving forward.\n\n\n\nAbha: Absolutely. It&#8217;s the idea that there is constantly something that you can get involved with and moving forward. And if you&#8217;ve not had a go yet, give it a go. You can join people all over the world and you can definitely do that here with us at the WordPress way. Thank you for joining us today for this and I hope you&#8217;ve found out some more about 6.6. Hope it&#8217;s made you really want to go and try it. We&#8217;re already working on 6.7 and what we&#8217;re going to be doing for Do The Woo. So as usual, please send us your items for what you&#8217;d like to see highlighted, how you would like to get involved, that you&#8217;ll want to know more about. And the joy we&#8217;ve had at Do the Woo is putting people in touch with the various groups, the squad that they need to talk to.\n\n\n\n And it&#8217;s been a real joy when we&#8217;ve had that, particularly from the areas where they haven&#8217;t had contributors before. So please keep doing that. We are here to support you from Do The Woo. All that remains for me, is really is to thank our two guests, Mary Baum and Meher as well. And it&#8217;s just been wonderful to be sitting here talking to you about 6.6. I want to do a shout out to everyone who helped prepare for this as well today and who sent in suggestions and information and of course to Bob who really is an energetic enthusiast for us getting those voices that we don&#8217;t always hear and for spreading that international message. So thank you for joining us. Do come and check out 6.7 when it lands later next year, get involved with the 6.7 team and we&#8217;ll have all those links on the show notes. But for now, it&#8217;s goodbye from me and I&#8217;ll let our guests say their farewells too.\n\n\n\nMary: Well, thank you very much Abha and Bob and Meher, and we&#8217;ll catch you on the flip side.\n\n\n\nMeher: Thank you to Abha, thank you to Bob for having us. Thank you to Mary for being with me in this podcast. To all the great publishers out there, go try out 6.6, come be a partner of 6.7.\n\n\n\nAbha: And if you are new and have just discovered these releases, and you actually get involved from what we&#8217;ve been trying to put out there, then let us know. We always want to feature things like that and to help encourage. So catch you next time.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of The WordPress Way, host Abha Thakor is joined by Mary Baum and Meher Bala, as they chat about the recently released WordPress 6.6. \n\n\n\nThey explore various aspects of the release, including the challenges and rewards of being involved in the development process. Meher, who coordinated the release, shares her experiences and insights on how contributing to WordPress, whether in familiar areas or new ones, can be fulfilling and beneficial for personal and professional growth. \n\n\n\nThe conversation also touches new features in WordPress 6.6, such as enhanced site editing, automatic plugin rollbacks, and improvements in typography and design flexibility. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 Features and Improvements &#8211; The episode highlights several new features in WordPress 6.6, such as enhanced site editing capabilities, automatic plugin rollbacks, negative margins, custom shadows, and improved typography tools. These features offer more design flexibility and ease of use for both developers and end-users.\n\n\n\nGlobal Collaboration and Contribution &#8211; The episode emphasizes the importance of contributing to the WordPress project, regardless of where you are in the world. Contributors can get involved in various aspects of the release process, from development to documentation, testing, and more. They also highlight the benefits of working asynchronously across different time zones.\n\n\n\nEncouragement for New Contributors &#8211; They encourage listeners to overcome any hesitations they might have about getting involved in the WordPress community. They stress that there are numerous ways to contribute, even outside one&#8217;s professional expertise, and that support is available through documentation and community channels.\n\n\n\nRole of Release Coordinator &#8211; Meher Bala shares her experience as the release coordinator for WordPress 6.6, explaining the responsibilities of the role and the importance of thorough testing and communication to ensure a smooth release.\n\n\n\nCommunity Support and Learning &#8211; The podcast underlines the value of community support in learning and contributing to WordPress. Resources like the Field Guide, developer blogs, and the Learn.WordPress.org platform are recommended for both new and experienced users to deepen their understanding and skills.\n\n\n\nOpportunities in WordPress &#8211; With WordPress powering a significant portion of the web, the episode discusses how new releases present opportunities for developers and site owners to enhance their websites, improve security, and stay up-to-date with the latest tools and features.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher on WordPress.org</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary on WordPress.org</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nDownload and find out more about WordPress 6.6\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 Release</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/22/mixing-and-matching-styles-colors-and-typography-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Developer Blog &#8211; mixing and matching styles colors and typography in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/08/05/registering-custom-aspect-ratios-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Developer Blog &#8211; registering custom aspect ratios in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vopi-a9NptY\">Exploring WordPress 6.6 (YouTube)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nAs Anne McCarthy was not able to join us as planned for the podcast, we are sharing her videos on 6.6.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvEhnjbdyM\">WordPress 6.6: Bringing a Modern Patterns Experience to Classic Themes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdh1hKAuXSQ\">Negative margins, grid block, and custom shadows on 6.6 (YouTube)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidqPCJhze8\">Explore the power of a shared publish flow &amp; unified extensibility APIs in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nGet involved links\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/05/wordpress-6-7-planning-proposal-call-for-volunteers/\">Planning for WordPress 6.7 and call for volunteers</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/testing/\">Contribute to testing of WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/contribute/trac/\">What are trac tickets and how can I help with them?</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/meetups/\">Find your local WordPress Meetup</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/\">Could you help translate WordPress releases and other parts of the software into your local language? Join the Polyglots Team.</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/\">Want to help make releases even easier to follow for end-users? Join the Docs Team.</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 13 Aug 2024 09:16:38 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:3;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:59:\"Do The Woo Community: Stepping Outside the WordPress Bubble\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85084\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"https://dothewoo.io/stepping-outside-the-wordpress-bubble/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:7217:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nOver the years, certain people in our space have talked about stepping outside the WordPress bubble. I include myself in that group.\n\n\n\nAnd with each iteration of the community, personally, I always feel like it&#8217;s something that is not only a good idea for us to think about but also a healthy way to broaden our thoughts and opinions. For some people, it&#8217;s a bit scary to do this because they find the bubble a comfort zone. Others are much more comfortable. And even more so, some step outside of it for good, which is often the best decision for them.\n\n\n\nWhat does it mean to step outside the bubble? Well, it&#8217;s what you make it. Learning something new. Joining conversations that give you a more open mind. Or perhaps attending an event or conference that allows you to expand your scope on how you do business and who you do it with.\n\n\n\nSome things to ponder.\n\n\n\nOne of the biggest traps in our space is our Slack channels, which are one of two things: an echo chamber or a place with like-minded people who follow a single path. Now, I am not saying don&#8217;t participate in these. Instead, I suggest you find additional avenues of conversation that are not just in compliance with how you feel or think about something in the community. Reaffirmation is helpful, but it can also get you stuck.\n\n\n\nWith that all said, let me share how we, as a community at Do the Woo, are trying to help you step outside the bubble with two shows.\n\n\n\nOpen Talk on Open Source. This is one of our newer shows that I have talked about a bit in the past. It is hosted by Robert Jacobi and Courtney Robertson, both avid open source proponents. The idea for the show was inside my head since last year.\n\n\n\nWhat inspired me to pull it together was not only had I heard others talking about the need for this, but it also nagged at me. The fact that so many of us in the WordPress ecosystem love open source for the obvious reason but are not exposed to all the amazing projects around us that bring open source to the surface and also integrate or work alongside WordPress itself. As a result, this show is perfect for anyone who loves WordPress as an open-source project and wants to discover those projects outside our space and what they mean to you and the growth of open source.\n\n\n\nThen we also have our new show about Scaling Enterprise. Working with the Scale Consortium, this show has also been in the works for quite some time and is now out in the wild with hosts Brad Williams, Karim Marucchi, and Tom Willmot. What makes this show unique is it&#8217;s broken up into two separate shows, The Buyer&#8217;s View and The Inside Track.\n\n\n\nThe Inside Track, which premiered yesterday, is more focused on WordPress in Enterprise. On the other hand, The Buyer&#8217;s View gives us a look at open source software beyond WordPress when it comes to enterprise. So essentially, you get the best of both worlds.\n\n\n\nThese two shows are examples of how we want to help you explore technology beyond the WordPress bubble. And I&#8217;m sure even within our other existing shows, you will find bits and pieces of it as well. Plus, I imagine you may find more about it on our new blog that is just around the corner.\n\n\n\nLastly, I would like to share my own experience that lends itself to events outside of WordPress. This last March, I attended CloudFest in Germany for the first time. It started with the Hackathon that led into the event. And yes, there was also a WordPress day. Something I believe you are going to see grow.\n\n\n\nNow I know some people came only for that day, and I am hoping next March that they decide to stick around for the entire event. Now it is focused on technology in the cloud, so not everything may be of interest. But I can guarantee you that you will meet some amazing people with all sorts of talents and views that will make it worth the experience.\n\n\n\nMyself, I used to go to these conferences in my other pre-WordPress life. And I was so happy that I stepped out of the bubble of WordCamps and experienced CloudFest. In fact, I was so impressed, chances are good I will be going again next March. So hope to see you there and if you have any questions about it, ping me.\n\n\n\nWell, that is that. And as I said at the beginning, find your own paths to explore the tech communities outside of WordPress no matter what you do professionally in our space. Take some breaks from those Slack channels and reflect on the bigger picture. Give yourself some time to reevaluate how this may just make you happier and more flexible with your own ideas and thoughts. I have done this recently myself in a lot of different ways aside from what I have already mentioned around the podcast and events. Maybe that is something for another time.\n\n\n\nSo speaking of WordCamps, if you are going to WordCamp US, let&#8217;s connect or reconnect. I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing everyone and know that having a balance of inside and outside the bubble is nothing better than a happier frame of mind. So until the next time.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of BobWP on Community, BobWP talks about the importance of stepping outside the WordPress bubble to broaden our thoughts and opinions.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nThe key takeaways from the transcript are:\n\n\n\nThe Importance of Stepping Outside the Bubble: It&#8217;s beneficial to explore beyond the WordPress community to gain new perspectives, learn, and grow.\n\n\n\nLearning and Broadening Horizons: Engaging in new activities, joining diverse conversations, and attending different events can help broaden your scope and improve how you do business.\n\n\n\nAvoiding Echo Chambers: Participating in diverse conversations and exploring different avenues can prevent getting stuck in an echo chamber.\n\n\n\nInitiatives at Do the Woo: The community is encouraged to step outside the WordPress bubble through new shows like &#8220;Open Talk on Open Source&#8221; and &#8220;Scaling Enterprise,&#8221; which highlight technology beyond WordPress.\n\n\n\nValue of Events Outside WordPress: Attending events like CloudFest offers opportunities to meet diverse people and gain insights beyond the WordPress ecosystem.\n\n\n\nPersonal Growth: Exploring outside familiar zones can lead to personal and professional growth, making one happier and more flexible in their ideas and thoughts.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/podcasts/open-talk-on-open-source/\">Open Talk on Open Source</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/podcasts/scaling-enterprise-wordpress-and-open-source-software/\">Scaling Enterprise, WordPress &amp; OSS</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.cloudfest.com/\">CloudFest 2025</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 08 Aug 2024 08:56:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:4;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"WPTavern: #131 – Abraham Waita on Nurturing Young WordPress Enthusiasts in Uganda\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=158288\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/131-abraham-waita-on-nurturing-young-wordpress-enthusiasts-in-uganda\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:27109:\"Transcript<div>\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, nurturing young WordPress enthusiasts in Uganda.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL in some most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox , and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Abraham Waita.\n\n\n\nAbraham is a Woo Happiness Engineer at Automattic and is very active in the WordPress communities of both Kenya and Uganda. He&#8217;s recently given a talk at WordCamp Europe, which we discuss in this episode.\n\n\n\nAbraham has been instrumental in rolling out WordPress to high schools in Uganda. Fostering a rapidly growing young WordPress community. His talk entitled, Diverse and Sustainable Future: How High School Teachers in Uganda are Nurturing a Young WordPress Community, shines a light on this initiative.\n\n\n\nWe explore the dynamics of the WordPress community in Uganda, it&#8217;s impressive growth and the challenges it has faced along the way. Abraham provides insights into how WordPress is being taught in high school, through the ICT curriculum, and the creative project students have undertaken.\n\n\n\nHe also discusses the importance of community support, including sponsorships and hardware donations, and how these contributions can immensely benefit the educational enterprise.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of our conversation, we get into the broader impact of this initiative on students&#8217; futures, and how companies, or individuals, can sponsor this endeavor. If you&#8217;re passionate\n\n\n\nabout education, WordPress, or community growth, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Abraham Waita.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast by Abraham Waita. Hi Abraham.\n\n\n\n[00:03:05] Abraham Waita: Hey Nathan. I&#8217;ve just come from my talk and I&#8217;m feeling the nervousness is dying down, so I&#8217;m finally enjoying WordCamp Europe.\n\n\n\n[00:03:12] Nathan Wrigley: Have you just done it just now?\n\n\n\n[00:03:13] Abraham Waita: A few hours ago, but the emotions leading to the talk were so high, so right now I&#8217;m just letting everything go like down.\n\n\n\n[00:03:22] Nathan Wrigley: I&#8217;m very impressed of anybody that can do a talk at an event like this because it must be very nerve wracking. And until it&#8217;s over, I guess you&#8217;re carrying it around until it&#8217;s actually finished. So well done, thank you.\n\n\n\nThat is actually the topic of the conversation today. We&#8217;re going to talk about the subject that you talked about on stage. But before we get into that, could you just introduce yourself. Maybe, I don&#8217;t know, a minute, thirty seconds. Just tell us who you are, where you live, who you work for, that kind of thing.\n\n\n\n[00:03:46] Abraham Waita: Yeah, so, Abraham, I&#8217;m based in Nairobi, Kenya, but I&#8217;m actually active in two WordPress communities. That&#8217;s the WordPress community in Kenya, and the one in Uganda. And the funny fact is that I attend more WordCamps in Uganda than in Kenya. That&#8217;s why I am associated with the community in Uganda more than the one in Kenya. I work at Automattic as a Woo Happiness Engineer, so I&#8217;m usually supporting people using WooCommerce, specifically with, I help with payment issues and, outside that is when I go to do community work.\n\n\n\n[00:04:22] Nathan Wrigley: So the talk that you did was entitled as follows, Diverse and sustainable future: How high school teachers in Uganda are nurturing a young WordPress community. And when I saw that title, I thought, well, I really want to know a little bit more about that. So that&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve got you in to talk about today.\n\n\n\nCan you just tell us a little bit about the community, the WordPress community in Uganda? Is it growing? Is it shrinking? Is it large? Is it small? The only point of reference that I&#8217;ve got is WordPress. I confess, I&#8217;ve never been to Uganda, I don&#8217;t know anything about it. I&#8217;m imagining quite a few of the people listening have also not been to Uganda. But I&#8217;d be just interested to hear, just tell us what it&#8217;s like over there for the WordPressers.\n\n\n\n[00:04:59] Abraham Waita: Yeah. The community&#8217;s growing at a very high rate right now because we are rolling out WordPress to all high schools in Uganda, and all high schools combined have 1.4 million students. So as we introduce more of them to WordPress, the community keeps growing, and that&#8217;s one of the things we are having, is the surging numbers in attendees who want to come to WordCamps. Because the venues are now limited such that we have to introduce some sort of limitations to who can come. And as we look for bigger venues, the community&#8217;s growing very rapidly right now.\n\n\n\n[00:05:34] Nathan Wrigley: That&#8217;s interesting because that stands in stark contrast to where I am, which is the UK. When Covid came along, that kind of really did shutter the WordPress community down, and the events have not come back yet. But you have a very different experience in Uganda, so that&#8217;s really nice to hear. It&#8217;s growing, and in fact, at events, you&#8217;re turning people away because there&#8217;s not enough space in the venues. That&#8217;s absolutely fascinating.\n\n\n\nIs it just WordPress, or is it open source in general? So for example, would I find, I don&#8217;t know if you know, but would I find a growing Drupal community as well, or is it uniquely WordPress?\n\n\n\n[00:06:08] Abraham Waita: It&#8217;s mostly WordPress because it&#8217;s the tool that&#8217;s being broadcasted in high schools, like being spread out in high schools. So that&#8217;s the main focus for now. As we try to move into more schools with WordPress, we are getting more of that development in WordPress.\n\n\n\nMaybe other CMSs will also grow as a result of people looking for alternatives, but for now it&#8217;s mostly WordPress that&#8217;s growing.\n\n\n\n[00:06:30] Nathan Wrigley: In the part of the world where I live, if children were to encounter WordPress, it would probably be because of a parent. As far as I&#8217;m aware, and forgive me if I&#8217;ve got this wrong, there&#8217;s no school program. I mean, maybe some ingenious teacher is offering a club after school, but as far as I&#8217;m aware, there&#8217;s no state sponsored, government led WordPress training. Is that what&#8217;s happening in Uganda? Is it officially inside the school time, it&#8217;s being taught as an actual lesson, or is it more end of the day club kind of thing?\n\n\n\n[00:07:04] Abraham Waita: It&#8217;s taught in a subject called ICT, and it was open-ended for teachers to interpret how they would like to teach it, because the curriculum just said, we need your students to be able to come up with a project that solves problems in their communities. So initially how they were teaching that subject, the ICT subject, was with tools that could not meet this requirement. And so they ended up turning to WordPress, and that&#8217;s how, right now, you&#8217;ll find, yes, students are in a computer lab learning WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:07:35] Nathan Wrigley: Got it. Okay, so it&#8217;s entirely up to the individual teacher how far they want to go with that. And they could ignore WordPress altogether, but it&#8217;s allowed, and many people are doing it. Why have they chosen WordPress in particular? Is it just because there is a community, and there&#8217;s understanding, broadly, of how it works?\n\n\n\n[00:07:51] Abraham Waita: So, the biggest contributor was the, number one, it&#8217;s open source, and then the community involvement. So it&#8217;s now, let&#8217;s say, that there&#8217;s already a community around WordPress. There are WordCamps, there are meetup groups, so they&#8217;re not really starting from scratch if they want to spread it.\n\n\n\nAnd those are some of the preexisting conditions that have made WordPress to grow quickly because you have sponsored WordCamps, you have preexisting meetup groups, and it&#8217;s from there that other things have come up. So we have moved from two active meetup groups to six, and most of the new ones are teacher led. They are using the meetup spaces to share knowledge to each other. And from the knowledge sharing, now the teachers move back to students, and the students get to benefit from what the teachers have learned. So it&#8217;s like a, not a food chain of knowledge, but yeah, something like that.\n\n\n\n[00:08:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I understand. Yeah, so it&#8217;s kind of top down. It&#8217;s trickling down, yeah. And what kind of things are being taught? Because there&#8217;s just literally millions of things that you could teach people about WordPress. But, are you starting at the basics? Like how to install WordPress, here&#8217;s how to create a page. And just tell us what these curricular might look like.\n\n\n\n[00:09:06] Abraham Waita: Sure. So the initial point is usually getting WordPress installed, and due to internet challenges, it&#8217;s usually on local hosts and using XAMP. And once the students know how to install WordPress on local host, they are now introduced to building pages, posts, and then lastly plugins.\n\n\n\nSo it&#8217;s from the plugins where the teachers now start stepping backwards, and they allow students to explore. So we have seen students who have come up with crazy projects because they went above and beyond in the exploration journey. So like, one of the projects, I ask the students, so how did you build this platform? You say, it allows students to filter the schools. And he was like, oh, I have plugins for this, and here I set up custom post types, I am using ACF something. And I was impressed because the teacher did not teach him that. He just went exploring, and from there, he got to know more than, let&#8217;s say, the teacher, and come up with huge projects.\n\n\n\n[00:10:07] Nathan Wrigley: There&#8217;s a lot of guided learning, but then also you are seeing the children are just taking it off in any direction. I mean, I guess if you teach any subject, a proportion of children will be disinterested, and I&#8217;m sure that&#8217;s the case with WordPress. But there&#8217;s always going to be those who just hook into it and think, this is the best thing ever, and go off and explore and, as you said, start making things like custom post types, and what have you.\n\n\n\nAnd I feel that, in the last few years, the way WordPress has gone since the advent of Gutenberg, the block editor, it&#8217;s made it much more powerful for a vanilla, non plugin WordPress, so just a vanilla install of WordPress. To get yourself something credible just with the block editor. So I imagine there&#8217;s a lot of experimentation with blocks and things like that as well.\n\n\n\n[00:10:51] Abraham Waita: Yeah, actually one of the WordCamps I attended, the first session was covering blocks, and using Gutenberg to develop a functional site. And it&#8217;s from there that it&#8217;s like an entry point for beginners. Those are the learning points, what you can do with just a basic installation of WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:11:11] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, got it. Just to recap a little bit, you&#8217;ve got the meetups and there&#8217;s, now it&#8217;s gone from two to six, and at those you&#8217;ve got a lot of teachers attending as attendees to that event. And then they&#8217;re learning, and then they&#8217;re going back to their schools, and then they&#8217;re doing all these things. So it&#8217;s not like there&#8217;s one curricular, there&#8217;s just multiple different ways that it&#8217;s being taught.\n\n\n\n[00:11:32] Abraham Waita: Yeah. So it&#8217;s a total of about six sustainable initiatives, that the teachers are using to spread WordPress quickly, as quickly as possible to all schools, to teachers and to students.\n\n\n\n[00:11:43] Nathan Wrigley: Do you need more support in this endeavor? Is it growing at the point where you need to reach out and, I don&#8217;t know, maybe make it eight meet ups or twelve meet ups? And also, the finance of all of that because, although there&#8217;s a lot of voluntary time in, you know, you still have to do things like pay for the venue possibly, and things like that. Would you welcome some more support?\n\n\n\nI imagine that there&#8217;ll be people listening into this podcast who maybe work for a company that&#8217;s got an initiative, that they may wish to contact you and discuss things. So are you looking for support, financial or otherwise?\n\n\n\n[00:12:11] Abraham Waita: Sure. We really are looking for all possible support. So mostly, if there are, let&#8217;s say more sponsors currently, the sponsors that are available, we really appreciate them, but we still require more assistance. So there are some areas we could really grow.\n\n\n\nNumber one is getting bigger venues. So, as I said, we now have to limit to around 200 students, but what if now we could allow a thousand students from different schools.\n\n\n\nAnother thing, we have competitions going on, and a rewarding factor for participating in a competition is you get a present or something. So in the past, I would like to give maybe a shout out to two companies who have given some presents in the past. We have Yoast, who gave a free SEO training to winners of one competition. Alongside wordpress.com, who had some swag for them as well. It&#8217;s also a motivating factor.\n\n\n\nApart from that, yeah, there&#8217;s something else called a sponsor in kind in Uganda. So it goes all the way from, like last time someone gave a router, a 4G router to give internet to the production team, to the attendees, so that there&#8217;s wifi. And that&#8217;s as little as it can be like, from just being an enabler of the basic services to, let&#8217;s say, being a sponsor at a given level. And, yeah, your funds will really go a long way in that event. Maybe lunch for the attendees, something else like that.\n\n\n\n[00:13:41] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. So before we end this podcast, I&#8217;ll make absolutely sure that we&#8217;ve got any links to any pages that you may wish to point people towards. But we&#8217;ll also make sure that your contact details are there, and i&#8217;m imagine that you&#8217;ll be happy to receive emails about this subject.\n\n\n\nYou mentioned about motivating factors. Is that an important part of it? When these children are turning up to learn, are they seeing it just, I don&#8217;t know, it&#8217;s a bit of fun, I can build a website, or is there more to it? Like, okay, this could be a job for me.\n\n\n\nIs there a certain sense of it carrying through after school. I don&#8217;t know if you track that, or if it&#8217;s been going for long enough to see that, look what we did, we&#8217;ve now got, I don&#8217;t know, 100, 200, 300 people who are building websites for clients all over the world. Is it carrying on after school? Is it, sustainable?\n\n\n\n[00:14:23] Abraham Waita: Okay, so for carrying on, we are looking forward to the end of this year because that&#8217;s when the first cohort under the new curriculum will be examined. So when they go out, it&#8217;s the first group we will have coming out of high school with WordPress education. And then it&#8217;s, from there we can see whether they are taking it outside school. But from now, for the time being, yes, we have seen them taking some projects. So we have students who have built websites for their schools, where the schools didn&#8217;t have any websites, and now they have websites because the students learn how to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:14:56] Nathan Wrigley: So it is carrying on.\n\n\n\n[00:14:58] Abraham Waita: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:14:58] Nathan Wrigley: Definitely carrying on, but I guess only time will tell how that goes. But if you&#8217;re pushing a lot of children through the project, I&#8217;m sure that, in the end, it will have that effect.\n\n\n\nHow does the actual lesson look? I think you mentioned something like a computer lab, or something like that. Again, I&#8217;ve no idea what schools are equipped with in Uganda. So, is it a bit like a classroom environment, where there&#8217;s computers around the wall and you just begin, and you carry on from where you left last time? Or is it, everybody sit down, look at the whiteboard at the front, or the blackboard or whatever it may be, and I&#8217;m going to teach you this thing, and then you&#8217;ve got to go over and experiment with that? What does the actual lesson look like?\n\n\n\n[00:15:31] Abraham Waita: As a requirement for the ICT, the schools are offering ICT, they require computer labs. So it&#8217;s up to them to know how to, let&#8217;s say, schedule the classes into smaller groups to fit the number of computers they have, so that each student can attend like practically a lesson. But during WordCamps, you&#8217;ll find most students don&#8217;t have laptops. So during WordCamps, we just have a projector screen, and if it&#8217;s a tutorial, we are taking them through, one student will actually be doing the practical bit of it. But the learning part, we use computer lab, mostly computer labs in their schools.\n\n\n\n[00:16:09] Nathan Wrigley: It&#8217;s difficult to sort of say, but where I come from in the UK, there&#8217;s a lot of laptops lying around. There&#8217;s many, many, laptops. I&#8217;m sure that quite a few of the children have got laptops, that&#8217;s not always the case.\n\n\n\nWould you welcome anything like that? You know, do you need more actual hardware? You mentioned things like routers, and financial contributions and things. Anybody listening to this who might happen to have some of that stuff lying around, is that something you would welcome, or you&#8217;ve got to use certain things, and buy them through government channels, or what have you?\n\n\n\n[00:16:35] Abraham Waita: Yeah, that would be really welcomed because one of the challenges is that there are schools who really can&#8217;t teach WordPress because they don&#8217;t have the basic requirement of a computer lab, because they don&#8217;t have laptops, they don&#8217;t have computers, they don&#8217;t have anything to teach this subject. So they are limited.\n\n\n\nSo the students in those schools unfortunately can&#8217;t benefit like the others. If there&#8217;s hardware support, computers, laptops, anything that can load WordPress installation, because it&#8217;ll be localised, it&#8217;s minimal resources. Anything like that could really go a long way in such schools.\n\n\n\n[00:17:07] Nathan Wrigley: Have you played with Playground?\n\n\n\n[00:17:10] Abraham Waita: Personally, not yet, but I would say it&#8217;s now a great thing, to have a quick installation of WordPress on the site. Although, in Uganda, for now it may be a challenge, because you need continuous connection, which the students may not have. That&#8217;s why, for now, they are still on XAMP and local host installations, something like that.\n\n\n\nBut, yes, that will be the future because the connectivity is coming and, yeah, we will have more opportunities to introduce students also to that. I also look forward to playing around with Playground.\n\n\n\n[00:17:43] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it&#8217;s an amazing technology, and it feels that any part of the world, Uganda or anywhere else, it would be just such a superb tool for the classroom because you click a button, and four seconds, five seconds later, you have a WordPress installation.\n\n\n\nThere&#8217;s a few little caveats around that. There&#8217;s a few things that you can&#8217;t do, but broadly speaking, it works.\n\n\n\nAt the moment, when you close the browser, it goes away. But in the near future, one of the developers in the project, I think there are three of them now, they&#8217;re going to make it persistent.\n\n\n\nSo, you close the browser, and then sometime later open the browser, and it will still be there. But of course, I guess one of the things with that is that then it&#8217;s still stuck on your computer, which is fine if you possess a computer, but if you go home and the computer was at school, you then can&#8217;t use it. But maybe in the future it will be able to be exported somewhere.\n\n\n\n[00:18:32] Abraham Waita: Yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:18:33] Nathan Wrigley: How does the sort of hosting aspect go? Because you mentioned that a child had built school website. Did school pay for the hosting of that? How did it all of that happen?\n\n\n\n[00:18:41] Abraham Waita: So there&#8217;s a lot of voluntary efforts going on, and some companies offer free hosting if possible. Sometimes the schools pay for the hosting. So it&#8217;s a mix. Sometimes the schools will pay, sometimes a volunteer will just support them by hosting. So that&#8217;s one of the hosts supporting, or sponsoring in kind initiatives I was mentioning. You don&#8217;t have to give, let&#8217;s say, a financial contribution, but hosting a site is one of the contribution ways.\n\n\n\n[00:19:09] Nathan Wrigley: I mean, it all sounds absolutely amazing. It&#8217;s lovely to see a part of the world where WordPress is growing so rapidly. And I guess, you know, it&#8217;s from the endeavors of people like you that it&#8217;s all happening. So thank you for all of your hard work.\n\n\n\nCan you mention any websites, or places we could go, organisations that we could find out about, that would enable us to find out more, but also maybe, I don&#8217;t know, send some sort of sponsorship, or donation, or something like that?\n\n\n\n[00:19:35] Abraham Waita: You can, first of all, to reach out to the organisers of the different WordCamps, if you&#8217;d like to sponsor a WordCamp. You can go to central.wordcamp.org, and then you&#8217;ll find a listing of the upcoming WordCamps. And you&#8217;ll find, let&#8217;s say, in July, there&#8217;s a Uganda Websites competition. If you click on it, you can now find your way to the sponsor&#8217;s page, and sponsor directly from there.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to connect with the teachers association that has been behind all the efforts of all these outreach program in spreading WordPress to schools, you can first reach out to them on Twitter. They are @ICTTeachersUG, and their site is ictteachersug.net. And lastly, if you&#8217;d like me to connect you with, because there are so many other people involved, if you&#8217;d like me to connect you with, let&#8217;s say, whoever is leading the next meetup, or the next WordCamp, you can find me on LinkedIn as Abraham Waita, and I&#8217;ll be happy to link you.\n\n\n\n[00:20:36] Nathan Wrigley: I will make sure that all of those links go into the show notes. So if you go to wptavern.com/podcast, you&#8217;ll be able to find the episode there, and you can click on the links and hopefully connect with Abraham.\n\n\n\nThank you so much for chatting to me today. What an impressive community you&#8217;ve got over there. I hope it continues, and I hope you manage to teach more children as the days, and weeks, and months go by, all about the virtues of WordPress. Thank you very much.\n\n\n\n[00:20:58] Abraham Waita: Thank you Nathan.\n</div>\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/abraham-waita/\">Abraham Waita</a>.\n\n\n\nAbraham is a Woo Happiness Engineer at Automattic and is very active in the WordPress communities of both Kenya and Uganda. He’s recently given a talk at WordCamp Europe, which we discuss in this episode.\n\n\n\nAbraham has been instrumental in rolling out WordPress to high schools in Uganda, fostering a rapidly growing young WordPress community. His talk, entitled &#8220;Diverse and Sustainable Future: How High School Teachers in Uganda are Nurturing a Young WordPress Community,&#8221; shines a light on this initiative.\n\n\n\nWe explore the dynamics of the WordPress community in Uganda, its impressive growth, and the challenges it has faced along the way. Abraham provides insights into how WordPress is being taught in high schools through the ICT curriculum and the creative projects students have undertaken.\n\n\n\nHe also discusses the importance of community support, including sponsorships and hardware donations, and how these contributions can immensely benefit the educational enterprise.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of our conversation, we get into the broader impact of this initiative on students&#8217; futures, and how companies or individuals can support this endeavour.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re passionate about education, WordPress, or community growth, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\nWordCamp&#8217;s in Uganda 2024: <a href=\"https://lira.wordcamp.org/2024/\">Lira</a> and <a href=\"https://jinja.wordcamp.org/2024/\">Jinja</a>\n\n\n\nWordCamp&#8217;s in Kenya 2024: <a href=\"https://nairobi.wordcamp.org/2024/\">Nairobi</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.apachefriends.org/download.html\">XAMP</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-custom-fields/\">ACF</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/ICTTeachersUG\">ICT Teachers Association of Uganda (ITAU)</a> on X\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.ictteachersug.net/\">ICT Teachers&#8217; Association of Uganda [ITAU]</a> website\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/abraham-waita/\">Abraham on LinkedIn</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 07 Aug 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:5;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"Do The Woo Community: Insights from the 2023 State of Enterprise WordPress Survey with Mario Peshev\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85063\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"https://dothewoo.io/insights-from-the-2023-state-of-enterprise-wordpress-survey-with-mario-peshev/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:47383:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-13 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-12 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-3 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-11 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-5 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-10 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://www.avalara.com/us/en/products/enterprise.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a>: providing cloud-based and scalable global tax compliance that is hassle-free, safe and secure plus topped off with enterprise-class security.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nBrad: Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Enterprise WordPress Podcast, Scaling Enterprise. This is The Inside Track edition of the podcast, which I&#8217;m very excited to dig into. So on this show, we&#8217;re really digging into enterprise WordPress, of course, but really within the community, within WordPress, what&#8217;s happening, what&#8217;s going on with Enterprise? Who&#8217;s launching cool sites, what kind of crazy functionality or examples within the enterprise have we seen to really kind of validate what WordPress can do at scale within these large organizations? So I&#8217;m really excited to dig into a new show. So I have brought on a couple of my friends, good friends on the show. So let&#8217;s meet them and then we&#8217;ll dive right into it. First up, we got Mr. Tom over there at Human Made. Tom, why don’t you tell everybody who you are and what you do, especially around the enterprise side of WordPress?\n\n\n\nTom: Sure. Well, if folks listen to the episode we put out a couple of weeks ago, which was with Karim, you might remember me from that. If not, plug, go and listen to it. It was a great episode. I’m the co-founder and CEO of Human Made. Also, one of the founding members of Scale Consortium. Been doing Enterprise WordPress for coming on 15 years or so. So got plenty of scars and stories to tell.\n\n\n\nBrad: Lots of stories to tell. We can’t wait to get into some of those stories, the ones you’re allowed to share outside those NDAs. Right. And next up, of course, we have Mario. Mario, why don’t you introduce yourself.\n\n\n\nMario: Hey everyone. First off, pleased to be here. Great crowd. I’ve known you guys for over a decade now, maybe close to 15 years. My name is Mario Peshev. I run several different companies. One of them is DevriX, it’s a WordPress Boutique Agency, profiling in small and medium enterprises. Even though we work with some Fortune one thousands, we used to work with Meta, automotive companies, banks, telecom. So Enterprise is very dear to my heart. If it wasn’t for Enterprise, I wouldn’t have discovered WordPress. Well, and I wouldn’t have stuck long enough in WordPress if it wasn’t for Enterprise either. So that’s definitely something I love talking about.\n\n\n\nBrad: Awesome. And I’m especially excited because not only do we know each other, we all run our own agencies. We’ve been doing this for, well longer than 10 years, over a decade. But I also think it’s interesting because of just our locations within the world and especially kind of bringing not only experiences within WordPress online but also where we live. So I’m in Philadelphia. I’m on the east coast in the United States. Tom, where are you at?\n\n\n\nTom: I am in France. So currently enjoying the Olympics originally from the UK.\n\n\n\nBrad: Are you at the Olympics?\n\n\n\nTom: Well, I want to say I’m at the Olympics right now.\n\n\n\nBrad: Are you living in France now? I didn’t even realize you moved.\n\n\n\nTom: I do live in France. Yeah, I’ve lived here for a couple of years now.\n\n\n\nBrad: You are a big Olympics fan if you moved there two years ahead just to get ready for it. That’s cool. Mario, you’re a little bit further over there, right? Where are you at?\n\n\n\nMario: Not too far off from Tom right now I’m in Bulgaria, which is just one time zone ahead, but we used to be a little further apart when you used to live in the UK, right, Tom?\n\n\n\nTom: Exactly. Yeah,\n\n\n\nBrad: A little closer. But yeah, I think it’s just having not only a perspective, like I said, of what we do online because it’s amazing that we can connect this. I’m still blown away by technology and that we can just kind of get together and chat about things. So it’s got to be a lot of fun. I think we’re going to have different perspectives as well with our clients and just our experiences. So let’s jump in. I know we’ve got a lot of big topics you want to kind of dive into and talk about. The first one that I really, I like to ask people this and people ask me this a lot too, but I think it’s a fun question. It’s really just defining enterprise specifically within the WordPress world, right? It’s such a big, it’s just a heavy word, right? Enterprise. What does that mean? I’d love to hear, I think each one of us maybe take a turn and just kind of in our own words, when someone says enterprise or enterprise WordPress, what does that mean to you? How do you describe WordPress within the enterprise? And Tom, you want to kick us off?\n\n\n\nTom: Sure. I mean, probably in its simplest form inside the WordPress space, usually it just means big stuff, right? Big projects or big companies or something. Probably that’s how we all first came across it. WordPress is starting to be used for more serious stuff. I think also you can think in the broader software world, enterprise often just means customized, not going to take it off the shelf. You go on the pricing page, it says a hundred bucks a month, 200 bucks a month contact us. Enterprise is the contact us option.\n\n\n\nBrad: It’s the no price listed option, right?\n\n\n\nTom: No price listed option. There’s no off the shelf plan for you. You need to customize it. And so you need to work with, often you need to work with one of our service providers to do that. I think in the enterprise CMS space, you can often think of the difference as being enterprises need a platform. They don’t really think of it as we want a website and what’s the CMS? We need a website. They think we need a platform to power all our websites to power all the stuff we’re doing to integrate with all the stuff we are using to fit with all of our workflows, hence the need for it to be heavily customized. So I guess, yeah, probably that’s how I’d think about it.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah. Mario, let’s see your take and I’ll give you mine and we’ll see if we’re all thinking the same way, if we’re laying a little different.\n\n\n\nMario: Yeah, I love the definition of enterprise being the cost plan. It’s always custom. You always talk to an enterprise sales rep. You always have a custom quote, an RFP, and presentations, index, and stuff. And the reason you do that is you’re talking to 12 different stakeholders. You have to escalate to the board and get approved from the CFO and it’s just slow to this process. If we have to get super literal, once again enterprises, it comes from Latin and then it goes to French. And I don’t speak French, so Tom can correct me, but it comes from, what is it, entrepreneur or so, which is like to undertake or however it’s translated. Tom, do you know the actual definition? You’ve been living there for two years.\n\n\n\nTom: I don’t know the old French definition of enterprise unfortunately, but I’ll do my research for the next show.\n\n\n\nMario: There we go. But yeah, I mean essentially it is just to undertake and we are all entrepreneurs, right? Because we start new businesses, we undertake actions. So semantically speaking, even one person company is an enterprise. Realistically speaking, we have micro-enterprises up to 10 people or a certain revenue cap. Then we have small enterprises up to 50 people, small-medium enterprises up to 250, and then they just keep scaling up in the grand scheme of things. Looking at the top of the chart, I always take a look at like s and p 500 or NASDAQ companies. Most of the FAANG companies, they do have hundreds of thousands of employees. Amazon I believe is probably the largest out of the tech at least. They used to pick at about 1.5 million staff members and now they’re at 1.3, 1.4. But we are talking about tens, hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of team members, which of course, if you can imagine org chart, it gets to lots of different C levels and VPs and senior VPs and then directors and supervisors and all these kind of trailing down. So the difference between a small startup project and an enterprise, I usually speak to more people. You have to take more decisions, you have to deal with data privacy, security, scalability, and lots of other different considerations that you may not necessarily be dealing with in a small team environment. How about you, Brad?\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, I kind of go back to how Tom simplifies it, like big WordPress, that’s how I’ve always described it. Big WordPress, big challenges, big goals, big needs. When I say big, it may not be that what they might need is necessarily a big lift to build, but when you build something in the enterprise for a big conglomerate or big company, things take a lot more work to do, even simple tasks. So I think big, it’s not always this massively complex customized system. It just means building things in that are going to scale in the enterprise. They’re going to handle the traffic, they’re going to meet all those really strict security requirements, accessibility requirements, all these things that every company out there is important to them. But they need agencies like ours to help them through that, navigate through that, especially when it comes to WordPress. But yeah, I love to hear, I think most people think when you hear enterprise, it’s like Microsoft or it’s just these biggest of the biggest, the whatever, the s and p 100. But it could\n\n\n\nbe quite a bit bigger than that. I honestly think, Tom, you guys do a lot of work with universities and stuff. I think a lot of the universities, I consider enterprise because they have big needs and big challenges. They certainly have enterprise needs.\n\n\n\nA lot of content that they’re trying to figure out how to make it in a way that people can find what they need, which is probably one of the biggest challenges for universities and even local government is the sheer size of content they have to have out there and then make it easy to find what you’re looking for. But yeah, that’s how I kind of define it. I think it’s a big term because it should be, but it can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, which we’ll talk about a little bit. The state of enterprise survey that went out, we’ll get into that, but the way it’s defined within the survey, which I thought was pretty good too, is a high profile brand, a publisher with a national and or global audience or a corporate conglomerate. So I think that kind of helps summarize it too, but it’s really big WordPress big needs.\n\n\n\nSo why is enterprise and WordPress so important? Why are we talking about it? Especially when I say we, I mean not just the three of us on the show, but agencies that really help build WordPress at scale within the enterprise. Obviously this is important to us, but why is it important for the larger community within WordPress? Why is enterprise, why are we focused so much on it? Why are we spending so much time? I almost try to help grow WordPress within the enterprise, help corporations realize that it’s a great product that can compete with anything that they’re using, but why is it because the majority of people that use WordPress could care less about the enterprise, right? This is a very small percentage of WordPress builders and users that would be considered in this space. So the big question is why is it important for WordPress that we’re actually talking about the enterprise and trying to get more people to adopt WordPress within the enterprise? I’ll just open it up, whoever wants to jump in.\n\n\n\nMario: Well, so from where I stand, one of the reasons is the versatility of WordPress as a platform. So when we take a look at different software applications or tools or so, we do have a pretty broad spectrum of a single creator or a solopreneur type of systems and very high scale enterprise solutions out there. And WordPress is one of the very few platforms that is able to serve both at the same time. There are certain, and I’m probably not going to name specific names or so, but just the Indie hacker solopreneur tools that are one personality. They don’t have a team plan. You cannot add more members. There’s no security data, privacy support and stuff. It’s just one single person can use that. All the freelancers or single individual people. And then there’s the Adobes, the sales forces and all the other corporations building pretty hardcore tools, think of SAP, you cannot deploy an SAP as an ERP for any organization that has fewer than I would say, 500 people probably if you’re 200, maybe you can use it and not spend the 20 people’s time, full-time operating DRP.\n\n\n\nBut for the most part, you need to be a massive conglomerate to be able to use that. And unlike all of these, WordPress is probably the one, and if not one and only one of the very few ones, Drupal may probably fall in the same camp, but the one that’s super suitable for starting out being a freelancer or photographer or a journalist or blogger or so, but then at the same time serving universities and NASA and the White House and all the other different segments covering the enterprise. So the reason it’s so important is historically speaking in 2003, when WordPress started, it started as a blogging platform. It wasn’t supposed to be the go-to enterprise tool, while other players in the market were, that’s how they started. This was the pivot, this was the goal. And now we are managing, what is it, 43.5% or so of the web, but our enterprise coverage is still limited because we’re not talking enough about all the capabilities and opportunities of WordPress, which is why lots of enterprise are just not considering WordPress as one of the suitable tools to use, which is a shame. And that’s essentially why we have to talk more about that.\n\n\n\nTom: I mean, that probably speaks to the opportunity and challenge for WordPress and why it’s so important. In some ways, as you said, Brad, the majority of users aren’t enterprise users. It’s a fairly small user base, but actually as an economic segment of the WordPress economy or something, enterprise is actually huge. I dunno what the stats would be, but I imagine it’s up there, maybe hosting and e-commerce or something is larger, but probably after that, the enterprise part of the ecosystem is probably the third largest or something. And so the amount of money and resources that bring into the ecosystem is pretty large. And we see that the number of enterprise agencies that contribute means core or something. Again, it’s fairly sizable. So I think that’s just one factor. I think part of its importance is just the outside influence it has and the outside role it has to play.\n\n\n\nI think in WordPress, I think also just the fact that these well-known brands, sure, maybe you’re just moving one website to WordPress when you’re doing NASA, but it’s such a well-known brand, it has this huge impact actually out in the market in terms of WordPress being taken seriously. I mean, one of the things I love about WordPress is that NASA are using WordPress core. You as a freelance photographer can go and download WordPress core and you get the same thing. That’s actually really not true. SAP is a good example. You wouldn’t want to use SAP if you were a freelance photographer, but you couldn’t even if you wanted to. There’s not that many products actually where that’s true, where you really get the same product. And so I think that’s another reason why it’s important. All of the innovation that happens at the enterprise tier can flow down and be available to everybody, which is really cool.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, I mean that’s a great point. The innovation, and especially from open source, the more we contribute, we as a community within the WordPress project, the more anyone contributes, the better the project’s going to be, the better the software. And so the enterprise is bringing where we see those contributions, which many of these large organizations are starting to get into more, which is awesome. But we’re starting to see where they’re more focused on these areas that smaller sites would never even maybe run into those problems. Like the scalability side of it, right? The site’s going to have a million posts in one month, is that going to scale? So being able to contribute, you can go in there and actually help WordPress if there are bottlenecks, of course we know it can scale and can handle that, right? Especially if you have the right host and server setup.\n\n\n\nBut understanding if there are bottlenecks, I can think of a specific one. This was back, I don’t know, eight, 10 years ago. But as multi-site was starting to get more popular, networks were getting bigger, and WordPress was having a real challenge handling large networks. So if you imagine you have a thousand sites in your network and you got a network dropdown list, it would just bomb because it was trying to load all these sites. And same with users. If you had a million users, WordPress would just break because you couldn’t load a million. It would just break trying to pull that data back. These sites that were basically pushing WordPress to its limits, expose those limits. And now we have as a community worked on that and made it so it does scale. You can have an unlimited amount of users, unlimited amount of sites in the network, and it’s not just going to blow up, it’s going to work. And that all came from these larger builds, kind of pushing the limits and then discovering, Hey, we got to fix this. This isn’t going to scale if we don’t do something about it. And now it’s like I said, we’ve all seen it at scale on these massive networks or massive sites. So I love that idea of just those larger problems trickling down and hopefully being fixed within the enterprise teams and contributing back. That’s the number one thing. If they’re not contributing back then open source isn’t going to work anyways, right?\n\n\n\nTom: I mean, I think we’ve seen that play out right where it used to be. I mean, I think probably one of the reasons why Enterprise WordPress is kind of synonymous with just big WordPress is actually it was quite hard to do big WordPress back in the day. And so a lot of the stuff we were solving then as enterprise-like service providers was just scale and performance. But actually a lot of that has been solved. Now it’s not particularly hard to run WordPress at scale. And that’s thanks to that work trickling down being fed back directly and now we can focus on other stuff, which is cool.\n\n\n\nBrad: And going back to another point, I think, Tom, you might’ve made around kind of validating WordPress, you mentioned NASA, Whitehouse.gov, probably the number one, probably the most targeted government website in the world, probably one of ‘em at least, if not number one, is running WordPress. So being able to say that with full confidence as an agency owner trying to validate WordPress to an enterprise, there’s a lot of value behind\n\n\n\nthat, right? No, we didn’t build that site, but somebody did it. It’s amazing. And it’s on WordPress, right? NASA is doing it. Whitehouse.gov is doing it. You can do it. Microsoft’s running it. Their whole security team does an annual audit of WordPress. If Microsoft says it’s okay to run it, it’s probably okay for you. So it helps validate and make these conversations easier, especially as we’re trying to bring WordPress to the table for a lot of these organizations.\n\n\n\nBecause I think, Mario, you mentioned earlier about Adobe, AEM. I can remember sales pitches where I’m sitting there in a boardroom of Viacom pitching WordPress and why all their sites should be on WordPress and some weren’t, and they’re trying to figure out what they wanted to go all in on. And then right behind us was Adobe with about 30 people, multiple professors of data science coming up there showing all, and I’m like, versus my much smaller team, I’m like, how do we compete? And that was where it was really eyeopening that we need to collectively within this community, those of us that are in the WordPress space, we need to work together. We need to put our voices together, our thoughts together and help lift WordPress into the enterprise base, which is exactly what we’re doing here, right? Exactly what Scale Consortium is doing, what we’re doing here, working with the WordPress core team and contributors, because now we’re working on the WordPress dot org slash enterprise page.\n\n\n\nIf you didn’t know that exists, go check it out. Not a ton to look at yet, but I promise you we’re working on it. And so it’s nice to see that things are happening because even just a couple of years ago, none of this, there wasn’t an enterprise page. We were all on our own trying to pitch WordPress and realizing that’s not going to get us where we need to go. So that’s why it’s important because WordPress actually grows because of the enterprise, just like it grows from small businesses using it. So it is a good thing for all of us.\n\n\n\nI want to mention a little bit about the state of the Enterprise WordPress survey. So this has gone around and it was from 2023, so obviously we’re a little past the halfway mark of 2024, but I think it’s interesting to look at it retrospectively, but also I wanted to also highlight the fact that the 2024 survey is also live. So if you have not seen it, definitely go. It’s SOEWP.com, state of enterprise WordPress. SOEPW.com is where you can take the 2024 survey, but you can also view the results of last year’s survey. This is really spearheaded by a number of agencies. I think Big Bite and Human Made, you guys were pretty involved in this, and I know a lot of us were helping promote it because it’s getting data back, but essentially they interviewed approximately over a hundred corporations enterprise what would be considered enterprise level companies, enterprise brands, I should say Macy’s, NewsCorp. These are big, these are enterprise, right? Big WordPress the Times, and it got some really interesting data back. So if you guys have any data points that stand out, there are a few that stood out to me that I thought we should touch on, but if there’s any other data points you want to talk about, please, let’s do it because it’s interesting. I love this type of data. I haven’t seen this before specifically on WordPress and Enterprise, so just having anything to talk about and look at it I think is really interesting. Yeah,\n\n\n\nTom: I mean that’s the first thing. I think before we get to the actual results, I think that this is such a great example of something that doesn’t happen unless we all get together and do it right, that we actually have a real lack of data underpinning what we’re doing and pooling our resources to put something like this together. It’s not actually a huge amount of work and it can bring a lot of value even though this one is a few months past now, it’s the first one. So actually we can learn a lot from it.\n\n\n\nBrad: In the next one. I would expect now that people know it’s there, I’m sure some people missed it. And now on the WordPress dot org slash enterprise page, they have linked it up with a nice banner at the bottom. So I would expect we’ll have quite a bit more data points for the next one. So definitely share it. If you listen to the show, check it out, share it with anyone, especially corporations that might actively want to fill this out. It can really help shape some of the future of WordPress, especially at the enterprise side.\n\n\n\nTom: What stood out to you from the actual results?\n\n\n\nBrad: So the one that stood out to me, I think really just like the important factors of choosing WordPress. This is something, as an agency owner, I like to know this. Why did they choose WordPress? What were the items that kind of pushed them over the edge? I think cost is always going to be one of those things that’s always going to be a bit of a factor. But when you’re in the enterprise, WordPress is probably one of the cheaper options when you really think about licensing and costs and Adobe and Sitecore and some others versus WordPress. WordPress is generally going to come out on top, probably almost in every case. It’s going to come out on top from a cost perspective. But the number one thing on this list in terms of what was the most important was functionality followed by scalability, extensibility, and usability.\n\n\n\nSo it’s really about the flexibility of WordPress, which I guess that makes sense. That’s probably what I would assume too, but the WordPress is so flexible, scalable that they can really extend it to do what they need to do. And that is the core of enterprise because WordPress is not going to just install it and it’s ready for the enterprise. There is a lot you have to do to kind of get it ready. And a lot of that is customizations. And a lot of that’s really specific to the organization you’re working with because again, they have such unique setups and unique systems, and most of them, they may be on a WP engine or WordPressVIP, but many of them are not. A lot of them are still hosting their own stack or maybe they have their own hardware, which I know sounds crazy, but some of these organizations do because how they can control everything about what’s on that and who has control over that data, which is important to them. But on the flip side, something that caught my attention was the fact that multilingual capabilities were not as important, which I thought was kind of surprising. Every larger corporation I worked with, multilingual capabilities were important. Having localized content, especially in any region, there’s a global presence, an office or something of that company, but I’m really surprised it was over 57% said it’s not important. Over half said it’s not important. Yeah.\n\n\n\nTom: Well, what’s your take on that, Mario? I wonder if that gels with what you would assume the importance of multilingual would be?\n\n\n\nMario: Well, and that’s something that made an impression on me as well. So my personal way I’m interpreting this at least is first off, we do have a pretty sizable percentage of publishers here in that specific survey. So I would say that when we’re considering national publishers, particularly in, let’s say, the States or the UK or post-Australia, they wouldn’t be focusing that much on multilingual. That’s kind of one thing that stands out. We’ve been working with different, again, enterprises primarily in North America, they don’t care that much about multilingual. And again, as someone who lived in Europe, and my language, I’m not a native English speaker, I can totally understand how important this may be in certain scenarios. Again, you guys have worked with Microsoft or some of the other top orgs that have 12 languages in the dropdown by default. So for some that’s important, but this may not necessarily be the most integral factor here.\n\n\n\nThe other thing that stands in mind that kind of stuck up here is I believe that they fully realize the power of workplace multi-site and the ability to launch different instances for different regions for sites because it’s pretty common in enterprise. Most if you go to Nike or the Louis Vuitton brand, you land on the landing page with lots of flags and say, Hey, which country? And then it leads you to some form of a localized website. So these are completely different standalone instances. And I think this is also pretty important to recognize enterprise are not afraid of maintaining 20 different websites, even though they may look alike and just run a DevOps tooling to upgrade all this at the same time, unlike what we do ourselves. But a couple of other things that stood out in the survey, first off, and Brad kind of briefly touched on that, but functionality like 70% of the IS functionality was very important.\n\n\n\nThis was the leading factor. 70% said WordPress is there for functionality. And I think we are not talking about this enough when I think of what are the options for an enterprise, they can go with a hosted kind of CMS through show, which of course it is hosted. It has a limited finite number of integrations, modules, developers through show. They can do bespoke, build a team and build something for three years and spend like $12 million just building a bespoke system and then still don’t have integrations or they can go open source. And when I think of open source, I just can’t think of any better solution that has, again, the flexibility\n\n\n\n, versatility, integration, feature set number of plugins or API integrations, we show it to WordPress. So I think this is pretty important. And last but not least, or actually two things, but I’ll try to do it real quick. First off is build cost. So 22% of the service that they build their enterprise MVP, like less than 50 grand. I challenge any enterprise to do the same with any other platform whatsoever.\n\n\n\nBrad: Is that a one-pager?\n\n\n\nMario: Well, yeah, maybe just a mockup. Maybe just a mockup. If their creative team doesn’t waste four times on charting a log or something.\n\n\n\nBrad: It’s just a strategy phase\n\n\n\nMario: And hosting costs. We get lots of enterprises migrating to us because they say, Hey, we find it better to pay, let’s say 10 grand a month retainer for you to changes because we pay more for hosting. So we are paying 15 grand, 20 grand or so for just keeping the lights on, no custom development or changes or human contact whatsoever. And we believe we can bring our hosting down to 2 to 5k a month and spend the other 10k and to essentially incur zero costs whatsoever and actually get professional development behind. So comparing that with what it actually costs, maintaining an enterprise system once it’s already there is something that is a place where WordPress really shines.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, I mean they’re all good points for sure. I did pick up on the cost thing and it’s hard to say less than 50,000, whatever that was, but there are smaller projects within Enterprise. But yeah, like you said, there’s usually a lot more hoops you have to jump through. So even a simple website turns into a much larger lift and build. The one area I think we really as a community need to work on or maybe as an enterprise we need to work on is contributing. So if you look at does your organization contribute to open source, 62% said no, just flat out, nope, we do not contribute. Now I do think you should take that with a grain of salt because that holds true if they’re not working with an agency, if they’re not working with outside partners, if it’s just their development team within their organization, they’re not contributing.\n\n\n\nThat’s a flat no. However, I bet this is a little bit mixed bag, right? Where the no is, no, we don’t. But we work with DevriX or we work with Human Made, may work with WebDevStudios and they do. It’s like indirectly by them hiring us and letting us build their sites and investing in not only their site but in us as an agency, we’re able to roll that forward into our five for the future efforts and our contribution efforts. I know of our agencies contribute to WordPress. I know that for a fact and we would not do that if we didn’t have an agency or did not have good clients that could allow us the time to do that. So I do think we should take that grain of salt. I’ve worked with a lot of enterprise companies that don’t contribute, but the agencies and companies that work with do.\n\n\n\nTom: I think it’s something we could do quite a bit more around actually as a space, like you say, I think a lot of those companies don’t really realize that’s the case. We are probably not doing a good enough job of making that part of the pitch. I think it’s pretty common these days more and more common for this open source contribution stuff to fit quite nicely into goals or other initiatives that are happening in the enterprise. Again, there are dots that are probably not being connected. Even some kind of five for the Future Rep program that could extend to enterprise users of WordPress I think would be pretty interesting to think about.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, the great way to look at it too is if your team, your developers are contributing. It’s not just putting things on the void and your corporation organization gets nothing out of it, right? Yes, they’re contributing to WordPress, which of course you’re going to directly benefit from, but you’re also leveling up your developers. They’re a hundred percent getting better at WordPress and understanding how WordPress works and getting into the core software and understanding how to read the code and how to work with Track and how to interact with the community. So your developers are going to level up, which means you’re going to get more out of them. The value is going to increase out of the salary versus benefits that you’re getting from them and work that you’re getting. So there are just a lot of advantages to it. But I think organizations, it’s a bit of a mindset shift.\n\n\n\nThey need to be working on our stuff. Why are they working over there? Well, they are working on your stuff by working over there and you can also prioritize initiatives within contributing that are important to your organization. It’s still contributing. It’s still helping. Even if you’re saying, I really want you to contribute to this thing, we kind of need it. It still helps everybody. So I don’t think that’s a bad thing. If you want to contribute one thing, if you’re looking for an easy ticket, get featured images automatically added into RSS feeds, that’s still out there. But if that’s important to your organization, your team could do that and it could probably get in the next release of WordPress. So that’s probably, like you say, there’s an educational component to it too of they just look at it as time they’re not spending on the business, but they actually kind of are. So that’s something we’re working on we&#8217;ll continue to work on because we love contributing to WordPress all of us. So it’s just working with these organizations and helping them understand how they can do it and how that benefits them.\n\n\n\nTom: Something that jumped out to me in the survey that I’ll just mention at the end was the demographic of the respondents. I think something like 40, maybe slightly higher percent were leadership positions, which again, we’ve not been doing this survey before, but I would think that reflects a change compared to five, six years ago when actually WordPress was usually coming in bottom up. It wasn’t leadership led as I think that’s the stat I’ll be keeping an eye on over the surveys as we run them year on year. I think that for me tracks one of the major threads of enterprise WordPress as evolution. How do we go from bottom-up champion to leadership led?\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, that’s actually a great point. You’re not wrong. It used to stubble up from it, the tech people that worked with it and kind of liked it and they were like, Hey, we should look at this. Or maybe even marketing had an angle on it too because they were familiar with it from a marketing angle. But yeah, seeing it from the top down, that is a bit of a shift and that’s a good shift. And then of course just around this one is very encouraging too, and we’ll wrap up the survey here, but around the block editor, right, we’re always talking about what is the adoption, who’s using the block editor? Are they on the old classic WYSIWYG editor? And by and large, it seems like they are adopting it. There’s only about 19% that said they’re still on classic. And I think I was thinking about this. I’m like, I’m sure this is largely impacted by the fact that corporations and enterprise have budgets. They have money they can invest to say we need to upgrade. This is the new thing, we got to get on it. Whereas smaller and medium businesses, if they just rebuilt their site a couple of years ago, they’re not going to reinvest to do it just to get blocks right now, if you’re a media site, you should because the value you’re bringing to your editors is going to be worth it. But a lot of sites, it’s just not there. So I would imagine that’s part of it. But just to see the adoption with the block editor being so high, and to be fair, about 27% is both so kind of a mixed bag, but at least they are using some blocks and then 54%, so over half is they’re all in on the block editor in Gutenberg. So that’s nice to see.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, it’d be interesting to compare that to the broader, I dunno how that compares to broader usage of block editor, but I did that. I think that also connects back to the previous point where actually a lot of us who are doing enterprise work, were involved in the block editor because we are part of the project. And so we were able to bring that experience very early to our clients. A lot of us were launching Production Enterprise on the plugin before it was even merged into core. Whereas a lot of the broader web ecosystem, that transition has been more difficult. The ramp ups were more difficult learning a whole new thing, whereas I think of enterprise agencies didn’t face that so much. We were involved already.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, a hundred percent. It’s such a game changer for organizations, especially media organizations. Once they see it, there’s that light bulb moment. Oh yeah, we definitely want that.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, demo’s amazing.\n\n\n\nBrad: Cool. Well, we’re kind of coming up on time, so I want to briefly just touch on upcoming events. I know we have WordCamp US coming up, so if you’re anywhere you want to come, it’s in Portland, Oregon and it’s coming up on September 17th, 20th. I will be there. Are either one of you going to be able to make WordCamp US this year?\n\n\n\nTom: I will also be there. Yeah, looking forward to that.\n\n\n\nBrad\n\n\n\n: Yeah, Tom will be there. Mario, you got to make it over.\n\n\n\nMario: It’s close to school year, so unfortunately I’ll be here.\n\n\n\nBrad: Yeah, I know. Yeah, timing gets tough. The timing of WordCamp US is always a little bit tough with school. I think last year was the week right before school started for me. I know it’s different everywhere, but you got to kind of juggle that with the family, right? So it’ll be a really fun event. So Tom and I will be there, a number of members of the Scale Consortium with the group of agencies that are working with the enterprise. So if you’re there, track us down. Love to talk, WordPress Talk, enterprise, all that good stuff. I want to give you both a chance to promote where people can find you online if they want to reach out and talk to you, blog, your website, company, Twitter, X, whatever. So Tom, where can people track you down?\n\n\n\nTom: Probably Twitter is the best, just my name @Tom Willmot. You should check out scaleconsortium.org if you’re interested in what we’re doing over there. And this general initiative to come together as an enterprise WordPress space and grow the pie for us all and humanmade.com.\n\n\n\nBrad: Awesome. Hey Mario, where can everyone find you?\n\n\n\nMario: Yeah, LinkedIn and Twitter are going to be the two best places. Look up Mario Peshev and more than happy to chat. If you need any WordPress or B2B growth solutions, DevriX.com is the place to go. And if you have any questions about enterprise, I’m pretty sure that all of us are going to be more than happy to help out. We are not just spending a hundred percent of our time on just sales pitches and closing business. We definitely want to make WordPress for the enterprise a better place and educating a lot for free writing books, giving sessions and podcasts and lots of different events. So it’s a completely different culture than what you’re probably used to IT webinars and sales pitches and BDR calls as well.\n\n\n\nBrad: WordPress is a fun side of enterprise.\n\n\n\nMario: Yes,\n\n\n\nBrad: Definitely less stuffy over here. Come on in. The water’s fine, right?\n\n\n\nI also love the fact you both called it Twitter. I’m still in the Twitter camp, so I’m on Twitter still somehow. Williamsba and over at webdevstudios.com if you want to check out our professional side of things. But this has really been a lot of fun. I’m really excited about the show. I want to bring on a lot of different guests and get different experiences. I want to bring on not just agencies, I want to bring on site administrators, site owners, I want to bring on marketing. I want to bring on people that are using WordPress in the enterprise and really hear about their experiences. Good, bad, otherwise, right? But get a lot of people from Scale Consortium on here as well because they’re all working within the enterprise. So it’s going to be a lot of fun. So if you’re interested in coming on the show, please reach out to myself or Bob WP, you can hit us up. And we’re in most of the WordPress Slacks post status, so love to have you on and looking forward to some future episodes on WordPress and the enterprise, the inside view. So I appreciate it, Tom. Mario, thanks for joining and we’ll see everyone next time.\n\n\n\nMario: Great chat everyone. See you\n\n\n\nTom: See you next time.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this first episode of The Inside Track via our show, Scaling Enterprise, WordPress and OSS, hosts Brad Williams and Tom Willmot, along with special guest Mario Peshev from DevriX, introduce you to the world of enterprise WordPress. Together, they share the unique challenges and opportunities of using WordPress at scale within large organizations. \n\n\n\nThey discuss the definition of enterprise in the context of WordPress, share insights from their extensive experience running their own agencies, and highlight key findings from the State of Enterprise WordPress survey. Additionally, they touch on the importance of contributing to open source, and the impact of multilingual capabilities. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nDefinition of Enterprise WordPress: Enterprise WordPress refers to large-scale WordPress implementations that cater to big projects or companies, often requiring customized solutions to meet complex needs.\n\n\n\nImportance of Functionality: The primary reason enterprises choose WordPress is its flexibility and functionality, which allows it to be extended and customized to meet specific organizational requirements.\n\n\n\nCost-Effectiveness: WordPress is often a more cost-effective option compared to other enterprise solutions, making it an attractive choice for companies looking to manage their budgets while achieving robust functionality.\n\n\n\nMultilingual Capabilities: Surprisingly, multilingual capabilities were not deemed as critical by many enterprises, despite the expectation that larger organizations would prioritize localized content.\n\n\n\nContribution to Open Source: A significant number of enterprises do not directly contribute to open source. However, many indirectly support contributions through the agencies they work with, which invest time and resources back into the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nLeadership Involvement: There is a shift towards leadership-led adoption of WordPress in enterprises, indicating that decision-makers are recognizing the value and capabilities of WordPress for large-scale projects.\n\n\n\nAdoption of the Block Editor: A majority of enterprises have adopted the Gutenberg block editor, showing a trend towards utilizing the latest WordPress features to enhance content management and editing capabilities.\n\n\n\nCommunity and Collaboration: The episode emphasizes the importance of collaboration within the WordPress community to continue advancing the platform, particularly in the enterprise space, and highlights initiatives like Scale Consortium.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://scaleconsortium.org/\">Scale Consortium</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://soewp.com/\">Take the survey &#8220;State of Enterprise WordPress, 2024 Report&#8221; </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://soewp.com/2023-report/\">See the report for the 2023 State of Enterprise WordPress</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 07 Aug 2024 08:50:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:6;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"Do The Woo Community: A Deep Dive into Block Bindings, APIs, and the LSX Tour Operator Plugin with Ash Shaw\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84990\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:90:\"https://dothewoo.io/a-deep-dive-into-block-bindings-apis-and-the-lsx-tour-operator-plugin/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:49604:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-18 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-17 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-4 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-16 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-7 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-15 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://developer.avalara.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a>: help developers make sure their Woo projects are tax compliance done right with Avalara&#8217;s API. Visit their extensive developer resources today.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nZach: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Woo DevChat. I am here with Carl Alexander, as usual, and Carl, I see Carl board peeking over your shoulder there. How are the two of you doing?\n\n\n\nCarl: Always, always creeping out.\n\n\n\nZach: Right? Right.\n\n\n\nCarl: I mean, he&#8217;s doing what he needs to do. Creep out people on Zoom calls and also scare children at birthday parties. That&#8217;s his retirement life.\n\n\n\nZach: I am coming up on an interesting milestone. I believe the first time that we met was at a WordCamp Minneapolis and it&#8217;s just around the corner again.\n\n\n\nCarl: That&#8217;s good that you remember because most of my interactions with people are like, I don&#8217;t remember the first time I met you. I just know, I don&#8217;t remember not knowing you. We crossed paths so many times and I was like, but I don&#8217;t know when it was. I just don&#8217;t know when it was the first time. I think my most vivid memory of, okay, I really know this person was like, and we met a few times already, was at Pressnomics.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarl: You were sitting in the lobby talking to someone, I don&#8217;t know who, but you were sitting in the hotel lobby having a chat with someone and I just remember, I dunno, that&#8217;s my most vivid memory of, okay, this is Zach.\n\n\n\nZach: I think my most vivid memory was in one of the after parties. We were in a large venue and it was you, me, Michelle Schulp, and a few other people.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah. I think most people&#8217;s most vivid, vivid memories of me are after parties. I was going to say the same. If you ask Robert Jacobi, that&#8217;s all he talks about.\n\n\n\nZach: Right, and I have to correct myself. It&#8217;s Michelle Schulp Hunt now. Congratulations, Michelle.\n\n\n\nCarl: Oh yeah, Michelle Schulp Hunt. Yes.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah. So WordCamp Minneapolis is right around the corner. It&#8217;s coming up on August 16th. I will be there. It&#8217;s at the Mall of America this year. So if you&#8217;re listening to this episode and you are anywhere near Minneapolis St. Paul, please come join us. Go to Minneapolis dot WordCamp dot org slash 2024 and I would love to see some of you there. Maybe we can have an onsite dev chat with some of the people. So yeah, I&#8217;m looking forward to going.\n\n\n\nCarl: Exciting.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, it&#8217;ll be a good time. And then right around the corner after that is WordCamp US in Portland.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, so I&#8217;ll be there.\n\n\n\nZach: I will definitely be there as well. And it&#8217;s going to be, I think, a really good camp from everything that I&#8217;m seeing. The venue looks cool now. Everything looks like it&#8217;s going to be a good time.\n\n\n\nAsh: Is it going to be Portland weird?\n\n\n\nZach: I think so. And I think that you may have just introduced yourself. So for anybody who is wondering what the third voice there is, that is Ash Shaw. Ash, why don&#8217;t you give us a little bit of an introduction of yourself?\n\n\n\nAsh: Hi, I am Ash. Yeah, I&#8217;m 43 now. I started my career in tech back in &#8217;99 when Microsoft was trying to find cheap labor. So they came up with MCSE. I quickly learned that that wasn&#8217;t really that much fun and we&#8217;ve got a great Linux community in Cape Town called Plug Cape Linux User Group. I discovered them through a friend and a few people in the group showed me some tricks. I fell in love with open source, more specifically open source in the broader term. I got a CIS admin job at a university. Moved on from that to starting Lightspeed Development, which I shortened to Lightspeed back in 2003. We moved to working with WordPress in about 2007. The inspiration came from something called BarCamp. BarCamp Cape Town. They were kind of informal community organized events, not about specific tech, but about tech in general. I met a very interesting person back then, Jeremy Thurgood, who was working on Amazon&#8217;s cloud infrastructure way back then. I just remember he had this bizarre device attached to his laptop that was a security device, so anything in and out of his laptop was encrypted. Back then it was a brick of a laptop with this giant device attached. Very bizarre.\n\n\n\nCarl: That&#8217;s crazy. I&#8217;d never heard of that, but that sounds like really…\n\n\n\nAsh: I&#8217;d never seen that again.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, it&#8217;s like crazy. And I did some work with law firms, so they were pretty security conscious, but the best we had was the original RSA 2FAs.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah, to be honest, I don&#8217;t remember what it was exactly. I just remember he said it was to encrypt the data and anything going in and out of his laptop. Yeah. Then I met another chap who introduced me to WordPress and blogging and I realized that there was a whole community behind it and communities have always intrigued me and I&#8217;m a social person, so I started getting involved in trying to find more events and then I think it was one of the first 10 WordCamps that happened in Cape Town. Matt Mullenweg attended. It was back in 2008. It was what sparked a serious round of inspiration and drive to actually learn more. My lead developer is still with my company. He joined us back in, I think it was December 2006. So that was a long time ago. And we&#8217;ve had an interesting journey through the different versions of WordPress and we built for a political party, the Democratic Alliance. We built a multi-site blogging network on an initial alpha of BuddyPress. We&#8217;ve never done that again.\n\n\n\nCarl: I wonder why. I wonder.\n\n\n\nAsh: It was the first forever. My lead developer said never again if I&#8217;m going to continue working.\n\n\n\nCarl: It&#8217;s so funny. One of my first projects at an agency with WordPress was around BuddyPress and I was like, what was the forum? The one that turned into the BBPress?\n\n\n\nAsh: The forum BBPress.\n\n\n\nCarl: It was BBPress. Okay, yeah. I was like, no, never again.\n\n\n\nAsh: No, they didn&#8217;t integrate properly.\n\n\n\nCarl: But it made it so complex.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarl: It&#8217;s gotten better now, but it is still complex.\n\n\n\nAsh: I think Andy Peatling, who originally worked on it, I&#8217;m not sure if he&#8217;s still involved, but I know JJJ, he&#8217;s…\n\n\n\nCarl: Not, he&#8217;s not. He&#8217;s at Automattic. But I met Andy Peatling when we were using BuddyPress because I used BuddyPress as my initial way of structuring complex code and large code bases in WordPress. That was the only large code base I was aware of. So he came to WordCamp Montreal and I remember talking with him and just saying thank you. I would have no idea how to structure this code. Just like we were doing really large projects. And I&#8217;m like, how do people do this? It&#8217;s like, this is insane. And then the only example we had was BuddyPress.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah. So the BuddyPress was quite interesting. I worked with it for quite a while. And then my passion for the community and all of that drove me to organize a couple of WordCamps in Cape Town. Then I handed over to the community in 2014. I remember it was the last WordCamp San Francisco, and I managed to get in to join the WordPress Summit where we mapped out the next year of the roadmap. It was really fascinating. And somebody at WooThemes, I was complaining to them about Canvas theme and how they kept making changes and they kept breaking all of our site&#8217;s CSS classes changing and this and that, and it was a nightmare. And he said, well, if you have a problem with it, build your own. And I thought to myself, good idea. And we based it on underscores initially and that classic theme. We were stuck with Bootstrap three until, well, it&#8217;s still got Bootstrap three.\n\n\n\nWe didn&#8217;t know how to change that. And then last year we built, or the previous theme is LSX, the classic theme. And then last year we built LSX design, which was a block-based theme, and that meant we almost had to relearn everything. I took a bit of a sabbatical in 2020 to 2021, a one-year sabbatical. And when I came back in 2022, I started researching things again and I was like, what is happening? Everything&#8217;s changed. And at the WordCamp Porto I was inspired to go down that rabbit hole. And you guys mentioned ADHD. Well, I&#8217;m in the same boat and I went deep and yeah, it&#8217;s been a great journey, I must say, figuring out where to take this product, learning all new skills. My team has been on board and we&#8217;ve had a blast.\n\n\n\nCarl: I think that&#8217;s why a lot of people with ADHD like to be solopreneurs or start their own thing and stuff, because a lot of ADHD people that I know also just love learning. They love learning new stuff. You get a nice dopamine hit whenever you skill up at things. So what&#8217;s the easiest way to skill up at is to just do a whole bunch of things, which business requires you to do.\n\n\n\nZach: It&#8217;s been a journey I&#8217;ve gone through multiple times, right? I&#8217;ve talked about this on the show before, but I was a flash developer and I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;re aware, but that kind of disappeared overnight. So we definitely ended up having to retool a whole bunch of us into new technologies. And that&#8217;s how I ended up finding WordPress was as part of that retooling. I actually learned UX and went through a whole bunch of UX courses during that time too. And my first job after Flash was in\n\n\n\na role as a UX architect, so I stepped away from development for a little while and broadened my horizons a bit and learned some design, learned some other things around what makes good user experience, and then came back to development and WordPress basically full bore after that. And the gateway to me really getting involved with WordPress was WooCommerce, and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m here. So yeah, I mean that whole learning new things, it&#8217;s something that we are remarkably good at when it&#8217;s something we find interest in. The problem is if we don&#8217;t find interest in it, it&#8217;s very hard for us to then focus and work on it. At least I find that for myself, if I&#8217;m not interested.\n\n\n\nCarl: I&#8217;ve had the luck that I am pretty good at delayed gratification. So that really helps I think for that because yeah, it&#8217;s really easy. I know a lot of people that are like, oh, and they&#8217;re shifting to new things right away, and it&#8217;s hard to stay focused and do the consistent work that is required to get good at anything. Really.\n\n\n\nAsh: The WooCommerce software got launched at WordCamp Cape Town 2012, and that was one of the events I organized. And at that point I was working with WPEcommerce by Dan Millwood and Jeff Ward.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, I remember them.\n\n\n\nAsh: I think Dan Mill moved into gaming. I&#8217;m not sure what happened to Jeff. He was a really great developer.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, I remember Dan. We were in a couple of private Facebook groups together. I hadn&#8217;t heard his name in so long, but yeah, I remember when because they tried to get it back up and going for a little bit and then you moved on to something else.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah, gaming.\n\n\n\nZach: So my first real introduction to WooCommerce was building a digital marketplace for a record label that I was a part of. And so all digital, all downloads, and that was a benefit of WooCommerce that most other e-commerce platforms didn&#8217;t have at the time was the ability to create a digital marketplace really easily. We did that for every artist that was on our record label. We had a website where you could buy all of the music we had, and that was 2012 that we started the project for that. And that was built on the white light theme from Woo and just very, very early days of WooCommerce.\n\n\n\nAnd last month we had Beka Rice on and we were talking about the wild west of WooCommerce development. And back then there was a board where you could go and choose plugins you wanted to develop. And that&#8217;s how all of the plugin development that became the marketplace started was with a board of ideas that people claimed things on. And so it&#8217;s really kind of interesting to see where we are today, and probably more importantly for this conversation to see that WooCommerce itself is inspiring some of the things that other people are doing, yourself included. So why don&#8217;t we talk just a little bit about where, first of all, you&#8217;ve done a large update to your plugin and that&#8217;s the LSX tour operator plugin, and you&#8217;ve been using some really, really new cutting edge features and WordPress. But first let&#8217;s talk about the inspiration that you drew from WooCommerce as you started this process of rebuilding your plugin.\n\n\n\nAsh: I&#8217;d say it all started with the block theme that we developed last year. We were working with Frank Klein from WP Development Courses. He was mentoring our team on block development practices, best practices, things like that. What an amazing man. He has a wealth of knowledge, I swear. He lives on the GitHub issues for WordPress and Gutenberg. You mention something and he is like, oh, well, and he goes and digs up a ticket that he was the one who either started or facilitated a bunch of information towards. So then because my company is a Woo expert company, we wanted our theme to be deeply integrated with Woo blocks. That was a bit of a nightmare last year and still somewhat of a challenge this year, but in the past six months, I must say it&#8217;s gotten better, exponentially better. So we decided to add support for a lot of the block themes. I mean, the blocks that were beta blocks because I didn&#8217;t really like the original blocks, to be honest.\n\n\n\nThe product blocks that they had, they had a number of separate blocks that they then replaced with the product collection block. And the way they did that, it was really impressive for me. It&#8217;s basically like a container. And then recently you would, when you want to add a product collection, it gives you a number of templates, like five specific templates and then one general kind of default one. And that really stuck in my head. Then another one of the blocks, which is still beta product collection, came out of beta recently is the gallery beta. And that one&#8217;s so much better than the old gallery block. And I have another e-commerce site back in South Africa. It&#8217;s a side project of mine, and I build that using my company&#8217;s open source theme, and it&#8217;s like a test ground for all of what we are doing. So when something comes out, I will test everything possible. I&#8217;ll try this config and that config and that config and figure out what doesn&#8217;t work. So then I write up GitHub issues for my teammates, and then they will add support. Either it&#8217;s new support for a new WordPress release, and I must say that 6.3, 6.4, 6.5 and 6.6 releases, they just bounce the functionality and capabilities radically. And then when I was at WordCamp Europe recently, I was demoing what we are doing with the Woo blocks to both the CEO of WooCommerce, and he and Pi were really excited about this. They loved what we were doing. We&#8217;ve got full compatibility for all their blogs.\n\n\n\nAnd then we started on this venture of redeveloping our classic PHP-based tour operator plugin, which I was quite honestly scared of doing when we started building that plugin. It&#8217;s also an open source plugin, and it was built to work with our classic theme. And the reason it never really got adopted was because it only worked with that one theme. It was too much to actually get it to work with many themes. We would&#8217;ve needed to write so much code to add compatibility. Now with block themes and blocks, this opens a whole lot of potential. We haven&#8217;t done the testing with other themes yet, but I imagine that things are going to work pretty or better than ever they ever did in the past. So we&#8217;ve been looking at how I was just to unpack a little bit more about the tour operator plugin is it&#8217;s got three core post types with four or five taxonomies.\n\n\n\nSo you can imagine those are quite a number of templates. So these templates are needed to map out the block-based templates. They can&#8217;t all just run off essential all archives templates. They each need their own one because they have a host of custom fields. So what I&#8217;m working with my developer on is how we can approach this in a similar way to the product collection block where we&#8217;ll come up with hopefully one query loop type of block for all the post types, but realistically we&#8217;ll probably need to do a few for each of the main post types that we&#8217;re still experimenting with. So then another thing that I&#8217;ve got earmarked is the pattern assembler within WooCommerce for customizing the design.\n\n\n\nI&#8217;ve been testing, it&#8217;s not in the main release yet from what I understand. I think it&#8217;s in a future release. It&#8217;s only in the beta versions, but I imagine if I had eight pairs of fonts for a tour operator site and the ability to then define site logo and site icon and all of that sort of thing through a similar interface that would radically reduce the time that we need to build sites. What we have done with quite a lot of success so far is migrated the many custom fields. So just to give you an idea, a single tour, we will have a couple of the main fields. It&#8217;s got its normal WordPress fields, title, excerpts, body, but then we&#8217;ve also got a, there&#8217;s a featured image, which is standard, but then we also have a hero image that could be a wide image that isn&#8217;t very tall or high. And then a host of values like price and day-by-day itineraries are repeatable groups of fields. So day one or day one to day three, we&#8217;ll then have a number of fields. We solved those in the past using CMB2, which is a good framework. It worked well for us. Have you guys got experience?\n\n\n\nCarl: That&#8217;s old? I&#8217;ve used it before. It&#8217;s been around.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarl: I feel like I saw it almost 10 years ago.\n\n\n\nAsh: So we can bypass a lot of that. We need it for some of the things that we want to achieve, but with the block bindings API we&#8217;re able to hook into the original slugs that we&#8217;d created for the custom fields. And one of the things that we&#8217;ve developed for our tour operator plugin is an integration with a data partner. So they&#8217;re called whereto.com and they have two types of customers, accommodation providers and tour operators. The accommodation providers pump in their accommodation information like descriptions, rooms, all of that sort of thing. And then tour operators, when they create digital itineraries, they would say, I start in this city and I go to that city and I go to this region, and then they create a really rich media itinerary. But now to display that on a website, you could just embed it with an iframe, but that&#8217;s not great. So we built an integration to their rest API that literally connects to every single data point they have for destinations.\n\n\n\nCarl: You cache that?\n\n\n\nAsh: Well, we actually import it and we&#8217;ve set up triggers that it&#8217;ll poll a specified cron job to check at certain times. Is there a change? Pull it in. We&#8217;ve got rules that we can set up where if the WordPress side has been changed, then it won&#8217;t change. It won&#8217;t import and overwrite. Or maybe you do want it to, there\n\n\n\nare a host of ways we can configure nonetheless, the where to importer.\n\n\n\nCarl: You happy with that?\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah, it&#8217;s working really well.\n\n\n\nCarl: I&#8217;m a big fan of consuming API now. I think that&#8217;s way better than a lot of stuff that we had to do early on, like you said, iframes or I feel like that&#8217;s a nice change of the development landscape in the last 10 years as people are just like, now let me just do an API for this. And then they just let you pull the data and then you get it yourself.\n\n\n\nAsh: So much better. It does become somewhat unwieldy because imagine that you have 500 accommodation listings attached to 50 tours or a hundred tours and all of the images attached to that, and then the people who load the accommodation data, they don&#8217;t necessarily know that images need to be resized and whatnot. So we over the years had to develop methods to resize images on import scale things. And with the day-by-day itineraries, there aren&#8217;t actually images attached to an individual day. So we managed to create a way for it to automatically assign a random image to the day, for example. And that would be an image from the accommodation listing that&#8217;s attached to that day.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, exactly.\n\n\n\nAsh: One of the things that we&#8217;ve done to interlink the different post types is to use a version of Posts 2 Posts by Scribu.\n\n\n\nCarl: I remember that. Yep. Oh my God. Yeah, he&#8217;s the OG WPCLI developer too, right?\n\n\n\nAsh: He discontinued development on that plugin, but that&#8217;s not an issue because we&#8217;ve modified it and brought it into our system.\n\n\n\nCarl: And it wasn&#8217;t a lot of code, if I remember correctly. It was easy to, if you wanted to just pull it into your own code base, it wasn&#8217;t a huge, it was one of those small plugins that do a lot, that can do a lot of lifting, but code-wise, it wasn&#8217;t like, oh, this is so big that there&#8217;s no way we can bring this into our own code base. It was simple. So it was good. It was easy for other developers to just look at what he did and bring it in.\n\n\n\nZach: I think context is important here for people who aren&#8217;t familiar. So what the Posts 2 Posts plugin did was it allowed you to create many relationships between posts. And as we know, or you may not know if you&#8217;re listening to this, posts are everything in WordPress pretty much. So pages are posts. Posts are posts.\n\n\n\nCarl: It&#8217;s like the core data type of WordPress.\n\n\n\nAsh: WooCommerce orders are post types.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, everything&#8217;s a post type, which is why the scaling issue that we basically were beating the dead horse of the high-performance order tables.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, now that high-performance order storage exists, it&#8217;s not quite a post type anymore for orders, which is a good thing. Right.\n\n\n\nCarl: I was thinking about that too. You were describing your data model earlier and I was like, oh, I wonder how you were saying, I mean, you&#8217;ll have issues like scaling with anything with WordPress. You were talking about 500 accommodations and 80 tours, and that can have an impact as well on performance.\n\n\n\nAsh: With the importer, it does in time. So you can imagine the number of images that get imported into the database for each listing and all of that. So that&#8217;s something where we&#8217;ve learned how to manage the larger sites. Most smaller sites, it&#8217;s not an issue on the larger sites. We manage those on a case-by-case basis. But yeah, the post-to-post really helped us create the relationships. So for example, if you import a tour, you&#8217;ll have those accommodation items connected. You&#8217;ll also connect destinations. Destinations are hierarchical, like pages are hierarchical where you&#8217;ve got a top level and a sub-level. So a destination is to the top level is a country and the sub-level is a region. And those have different templates. So if you were on a country, you don&#8217;t display accommodation, but you do display featured tours. Tours move through a country, they also move through a region, but accommodation would only display on a region template, for example.\n\n\n\nSo yeah, one of the next things that we&#8217;ve got planned is obviously with all of this kind of data, searching for the information for the end user is critical. And we&#8217;ve used FacetWP for a long time and sometimes SearchWP, although I&#8217;m not sure that that helps the performance very much. It does sometimes help having a search engine. But FacetWP is a great plugin for our needs. So we built a little integration to the classic plugin. Now they have a block. It&#8217;s just really for short codes. It&#8217;s not really a true block, and we do some styling around that. Ideally, what I want to be doing with in the future, and it&#8217;s on our roadmap, is something like Woo filters where you&#8217;ve got your active filters, your price slider, filter by post type, filter by taxonomy, filter by featured, and something that we have that filtering on archives being your top level or category top level for a post type being all tours or a category archive.\n\n\n\nAnd those filters can be relevant to that post type or that category. But then what happens when you search globally, because a lot of people want to search the site globally. So then we&#8217;ve come up with a solution using Facet WP where one of the filters will be content type. So say that user does a search in the header for Cape Town where I&#8217;m from, and it comes up with blog posts, pages, destinations, tours, accommodation reviews, special offers, and maybe a team members even attached to mentions Cape Town. So then that filtering allows you to filter by content type. So that&#8217;s something we haven&#8217;t started with that yet, but I mapped everything out for it today actually while I was chatting about things with my developer.\n\n\n\nThen the checkout block is something I want to start pulling apart as an inquiry because I would like customers in the future, or not customers, but users of the plugin in the future, not to have to depend on a form plugin. And I was thinking that if we could do something like a checkout block, but an inquiry block where I drop it into either a section on the page or a mode or something like that, that would be really great to post that information to a post type like orders, but it would be inquiries. And if you think about the block bindings API, so if you&#8217;ve got a single tour, we&#8217;ve managed to get the vast majority of fields to output properly.\n\n\n\nOne thing I&#8217;m not sure how my developer is going to solve, but he has a plan is as I mentioned, that repeatable field, we have repeatable fields for gallery images as well. So if you add an image, you need to add alt information, alt tags, you need to add maybe a caption or you add a host of info. So that part that&#8217;s on the roadmap. But we are very happy with the first part of the rebuild. A lot of it was done via the site editor and I did that and with the help of my developer. Then once I designed all the layouts, he would help me add some of the block bindings code to the plugin, then I&#8217;d work with it a little bit. I&#8217;d do some designs, he&#8217;d take my block templates, he&#8217;d put them into the plugin, and then I&#8217;d do some more and back and forth like that. So it&#8217;s been a really fun journey and amazing to push the limits of the site editor.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, because that&#8217;s all relatively new too.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah, exactly.\n\n\n\nCarl: Do you feel it&#8217;s stable enough? Like you worry that they&#8217;ll, one of the things that with the Gutenberg experiment is that things have not been always that stable.\n\n\n\nAsh: So one of the things that I&#8217;m a little bit worried about now, we&#8217;ve looked into it, and again, my worry has a plan for that, but that is the change of the theme to theme JSON 3, where there are now defined spacing values that are within the theme JSON and or name spaces. I&#8217;m not sure what the correct terminology is. And also for font sizes or font names, should I say the sizes? You can decide because when we started last year, I was in discussion with Carolina who had done an audit of a hundred block themes, and she had taken the average of different naming for both spacing and for font sizes. So they&#8217;ve changed a few things from what the average in the community was, and that is going to probably cause HAC because then those changes, either we are going to do a find and replace in the database or I&#8217;m interested to see how we do that. And I just redeveloped my company website, so I spent a lot of time setting font sizes and setting spacing and using our own theme JSON values. So I imagine that&#8217;s going to take some time to refactor.\n\n\n\nZach: So it&#8217;s my understanding that it only uses the new defaults if there&#8217;s nothing set in the theme already. So it shouldn&#8217;t override anything.\n\n\n\nAsh: No, it won&#8217;t. But I&#8217;m somebody who likes to do things the WordPress way, and I would like future sites that we develop to use the new naming space namespace. And I think rather following what the standards are than trying to do your own thing is a better approach. And it&#8217;s becoming much easier to do that with theming, with block themes now, before it was the Wild West with themes, I mean classic themes that developed their own options frameworks, and that was a nightmare. So I want to steer clear of that sort of thing.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, I think we&#8217;re finally getting out of the world where the theme could be a kitchen sink theme, right? Where it included a whole bunch of functionality that wasn&#8217;t in any way related to anything it needed to be. And so I think we&#8217;re finally moving away from that with block themes, and hopefully we&#8217;ll get away from the world where people had this necessity to package 482 plugins with their theme just to\n\n\n\nmake it look like it had more functionality than it did because that&#8217;s been a horrible practice the whole time. And that&#8217;s what I call a kitchen sink theme, right? It&#8217;s everything and the kitchen sink.\n\n\n\nAsh: Indeed.\n\n\n\nZach: Those are really, really horrible practices to just have a theme do more than theme, right? That&#8217;s plugin territory and always should have been, but we ended up building themes that did way more than just the visual theming of a site. And so I think this starts to refocus themes as being themes and not theme plus functionality. Patterns are a theme-related thing. And the ability to set patterns in your theme JSON for your theme and share patterns that you&#8217;ve created in the pattern library is huge, right? That gives us new design capability. It doesn&#8217;t relegate us to only being able to use the things that are available inside the available blocks. We now have these groupings of patterns that are also available. And it looks like in your theme, you have a number of patterns. They actually look really great, and you have all of these available to make sure that people have all the building blocks they need, plus all of these design templates to start from as they&#8217;re building.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yeah, the patterns were an interesting journey for us when we started. We didn&#8217;t know what to do to be quite honest. Now we have a much better concept of how we could use patterns and what we need to use them for. So the patterns that are in our C1 WordPress dot org are quite literally following what a lot of people in last year were doing. Frost wp, for example, was our inspiration. So then we made some changes to our color scheme and the patterns aren&#8217;t looking great at the moment, so I&#8217;m busy working on some patent changes for next week&#8217;s release and we&#8217;re going to be sorting out colors and that sort of thing. As we were talking about earlier, the learning i dopamine hits, well, it was a bit of a light bulb moment when I started creating some patterns for our own company website in the most recent rebuild. And now I know what full page patterns I want to create, and those full page patterns are going to be made up of useful smaller patterns, not just random team patterns and random testimonial patterns and things like that. I know what I want now. I just need to finish building them.\n\n\n\nZach: I think the other really cool thing I saw that you&#8217;ve done is you&#8217;ve actually released a Figma design system document that fits alongside your plugin and it&#8217;s a design system in general. You have a style guide, but you&#8217;ve made extensive use of Figma variables. And I think that&#8217;s huge because I&#8217;ve been digging further and further into Figma lately. I had a baseline knowledge, but I&#8217;m really digging into components and how creating components with variants works and being able to build a library of interactive things that you can build your prototypes with. And the power is just so deep in what Figma can do. So seeing that you&#8217;ve built a toolkit that&#8217;s built very similarly to the way that I&#8217;m trying to do the work that I do right now in Figma is pretty cool.\n\n\n\nAsh: That was an interesting journey as well, because we started the Figma file last year and we created three separate files, a style guide file, a WordPress file, and a WooCommerce file because we thought that was a good idea to separate them. It would be if you were in a large organization doing a large design system for IBM or something like that, or Uber, A lot of them do these separate files, and that&#8217;s where I took some of my inspiration from. But then this year we decided when we did a radical upgrade on the design system to merge everything into a single file, and we started with the LSX design theme, and we called it the LSX design system.\n\n\n\nAnd there we created two sections within it, major sections other than the style guide and the cover, and that was for the WordPress pages and elements. And we broke those down by components and then blocks and then patterns and template parts and full page layouts and templates. And then we did a WooCommerce section in a similar structure. And then recently after WordCamp Europe, as I mentioned, they really liked what we were doing. So I got the idea to showcase what we&#8217;re doing with WooCommerce in a prototype. And my teammate, Zared, has done the most incredible prototype. The Woo prototype actually allows you to add to cart and you can add up to four products to your mini cart. You can view the mini cart, you can empty the mini cart, you can search. It&#8217;s insane. And we really pushed the limits of variables.\n\n\n\nAnd last year, none of that was actually possible because what we were researching was the lead designer, I forget his name right now, the lead designer from GitHub was working on design tokens and it was a separate system. And we stumbled, I stumbled upon it through the WordPress vip.com websites and their blog where they were doing stuff in Figma and then exporting to theme JSON and pretty much populating the theme JSON with the colors and fonts and values that you would need or that you were working on in Figma. That was really powerful. But now this year, Figma has next leveled it. And when we started on the LSX tour operator design system, we put so much work into the variables and the naming conventions and all of that, we forked the file on the LSX design file, and we came up with that as a basis for the tour operator plugin came up with new colors because it has a different color scheme. We&#8217;ve gone from more of a safari color scheme. And then we left the Woo prototype in there while we were generating the tour operator prototype. We could only start that obviously once we&#8217;d finished all the templates for a tour operator.\n\n\n\nAnd it&#8217;s been an interesting revelation because the WooCommerce prototype was very much variable heavy and quite technical and interactive. Whereas the tour operator one is more of a clickable prototype. There&#8217;s less that you can do with it. We don&#8217;t add anything to a cart. We also don&#8217;t really need to test doing filling in a checkout form or something like that. So that sort of thing is unnecessary. And we decided to focus on creating a very clear prototype design that will guide us for the coming months of our development on the tour operator plugin. So that&#8217;s, I&#8217;ve got to say, been very rewarding and satisfying. My teammate, Zared, has in the space of four months, gone from zero Figma knowledge to advanced Figma design. He wasn&#8217;t even a designer before.\n\n\n\nCarl: That&#8217;s awesome. That&#8217;s awesome. Now I want to be an advanced Figma person. All I&#8217;ve had is Figma stuff shared with me. And then I just look at it a bit and it&#8217;s like that&#8217;s the extent of my interaction is with Figma. I&#8217;m kind of hyped up just hearing you talk about it.\n\n\n\nAsh: It&#8217;s really, it&#8217;s amazing. And their videos on the YouTube channel, their own videos are incredible. They all come with Figma files, workspace files, you can learn so much. And unfortunately, they made a radical interface change this week. I think it was this week. I opened it up on Monday I think it was, and I was like, what&#8217;s happening? Where is everything? My teammates had the same thing. We needed to get stuff done, and the two of us were faffing trying to figure out, oh, where&#8217;s this? And where&#8217;s now we&#8217;ve got it. But it was the most radical interface change I&#8217;ve seen in an application in ages.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, they announced all of that at Config that they were going to be changing the UI considerably. And just to bring this full circle to where we started today with talking about history, I have known Sho Kuwamoto, who is the VP of product at Figma, and I&#8217;ve known him for a very long time. He was the senior director of engineering at Adobe for the tools portion of Flex and was very responsible for the creation of Flash Catalyst, which was a design tool for the Flex framework. And so he&#8217;s been at Figma now for nine years. And so a lot of the beauty of what Figma is came out of learnings that happened in the Flash world. And so very, very cool stuff. And we are now seeing the benefit of all of that history. And so if you are interested in any way in learning a little bit about that history, there was a session during Config, which is Figma&#8217;s conference for those of you who are listening who don&#8217;t know about the impact of Flash on Figma and in general on the world. And so if you want to see where all of this stuff that we&#8217;re doing now came from back in the final days of we were innovating very quickly, and all of those innovations JavaScript has finally caught up to. So there&#8217;s been a very large gap in time that the things that we used to do in Flash have not been possible, or at least not as easy to do by any means. And so now we&#8217;ve gotten to a point where it&#8217;s all come full circle and tools like Figma exist because of that history. So really, really cool stuff. So I think that&#8217;s a really good spot to start to wrap up here today. It&#8217;s been really great getting to know some of your processes here. And I&#8217;m sure we could probably talk for another hour or two, but I think that Bob would give us trouble.\n\n\n\nCarl: We never got to the questions I have from pre-show. So definitely.\n\n\n\nAsh: I think that Bob might get in trouble if we keep him much longer. So I&#8217;m trying to not hashtag Bug Bob too much. I&#8217;m still trying. It&#8217;s going to happen. So if you&#8217;re listening to this and you want to help me make Bob smile, just post something with hashtag Bug Bob, and let&#8217;s see if we can get a whole bunch of things in his inbox. Go ahead and tag him in too @BobWP and let&#8217;s have some fun with that. But it&#8217;s really a remarkable thing that you&#8217;ve built so much on the new functionality that&#8217;s\n\n\n\nin the block editor, the block bindings API is very new. A lot of these things are cutting edge, and it&#8217;s really cool to see some of that happening. And so I think it would be great to have another conversation at some point in the future. But before we do that, let&#8217;s go ahead and wrap today up. So Ash, where do people go to find you on this collection of tubes we call the internet?\n\n\n\nAsh: So our company website would be a good place. We&#8217;ve got LightspeedWP Agency, that&#8217;s for more agency-related things, or our product website, which is LSX design on the web. Generally, our social profiles are Lightspeedwp. So if you look at GitHub, YouTube, Twitter, those three are all LightspeedWP and Facebook and Instagram are LightspeedWPdev.\n\n\n\nZach: Very cool. And before we close up here, I just generally ask Carl if he has a final question.\n\n\n\nCarl: We got to save Bob today. We got to save Bob.\n\n\n\nZach: Okay.\n\n\n\nCarl: I was just excited by the Figma stuff.\n\n\n\nZach: It&#8217;s really neat.\n\n\n\nCarl: I lit up at that because I was just like, for me, I think, and probably for a lot of developers and even yourself before you got into it, Figma for me is like, it&#8217;s a designer tool. You do mockups with it, and that&#8217;s about it.\n\n\n\nAsh: Well, I&#8217;ve posted two blog posts yesterday. I posted a blog post on announcing the new LSX tour operator design system and our process and a number of things just to explain more about how we got to the end point. And then today I posted a blog post kind of in preparation for this, about our journey from classic to cutting edge. That&#8217;s what I called it.\n\n\n\nCarl: Bob will link those in the show notes.\n\n\n\nAsh: Exactly. So there&#8217;s a lot more information there on exactly what you wanted to know.\n\n\n\nZach: Very cool. Yeah, I&#8217;m sure that there will be a lot of people that have an interest in the other things that you&#8217;ve done here. Those blog posts are great resources. That&#8217;s part of what I was going through while I was asking questions here. And we will link some other things to the show notes for this show that we&#8217;ve talked about, things like FacetWP and that new store designer in WooCommerce and some of the other stuff. But yeah, I really appreciate the time you spent to talk with us about your process here. These are always really interesting conversations, and I&#8217;m glad that we were able to dig deep on some of the things. Let&#8217;s talk again in the future here. We&#8217;ll work out when, and we&#8217;ll have you back to talk some more.\n\n\n\nAsh: Well, thanks for letting me talk about my passions, and it was an absolute blast. You guys are very interesting, and I&#8217;m sure we could go on forever.\n\n\n\nZach: We could. Well, as always, if you have any ideas for what you&#8217;d like to hear here on the Woo DevChats, Carl and I and Mike and Marcel are all open to ideas to hearing your feedback. So again, that&#8217;s hashtag Bug Bob on every social media platform, just to let him know what you want to hear or go to DotheWoo.io and let us know there. And we really appreciate the fact that you sit here and listen to Carl and I geek out with a guest every month. So thank you for being here, Ash. It&#8217;s been great getting to know you and we will talk soon.\n\n\n\nAsh: Cheers.\n\n\n\nCarl: Talk soon.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Woo DevChat, hosts Zach and Carl chat with Ash Shaw from LightspeedWP about the evolution of WordPress development and his journey in the tech industry. \n\n\n\nAsh shares insights into the challenges and opportunities of integrating cutting-edge features like block bindings and APIs into WordPress plugins. They look into the inspiration drawn from WooCommerce for the LSX tour operator plugin and discuss the significance of community and continuous learning in tech. \n\n\n\nThe conversation highlights the importance of adapting to new technologies, the power of open-source communities, and the pushing the boundaries of what&#8217;s possible in WordPress development.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nIntegration Challenges and Innovations: Ash Shaw discusses the integration of cutting-edge features like block bindings and APIs into WordPress plugins, specifically the LSX tour operator plugin.\n\n\n\nInspiration from WooCommerce: WooCommerce served as a significant inspiration for Ash&#8217;s development process, highlighting how it influenced the rebuilding of his plugin.\n\n\n\nEvolution of WordPress Development: The conversation delves into the evolution of WordPress, focusing on the transition from classic PHP-based themes to modern block-based themes.\n\n\n\nCommunity and Continuous Learning: The importance of community involvement and continuous learning in the tech industry is emphasized, with Ash sharing his journey from attending WordCamps to organizing them.\n\n\n\nFigma Design System: Ash highlights the creation of a Figma design system for their plugin, showcasing the power of Figma variables and components in developing interactive prototypes.\n\n\n\nFaceted Search Integration: The use of FacetWP for advanced search capabilities in WordPress sites is discussed, including plans to further enhance this functionality.\n\n\n\nAPI Consumption and Data Management: The benefits of consuming APIs for data management are explored, including the importation and caching of data from external sources like whereto.com.\n\n\n\nImpact of ADHD on Learning and Productivity: The hosts and Ash touch on how ADHD influences their learning processes and productivity, finding ways to leverage it positively in their work.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashshaw/\">Ash on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lightspeedwp.agency/\">LightSpeedWP.agency</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/lightspeedwp/\">LightSpeed on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/lightspeedwp/\">LightSpeed on Github</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lightspeedwp.agency/streamlining-design-and-development-with-figma/\">Streamlining Open Source Development with Figma at LightSpeed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lightspeedwp.agency/from-classic-to-cutting-edge/\">The re-birth of the LSX Tour Operator plugin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lightspeedwp.agency/announcing-the-new-lsx-tour-operator-design-system/\">Announcing the new LSX Tour Operator Design System</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 06 Aug 2024 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:7;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"Do The Woo Community: Let’s Talk WordCampUS 2024 with Julia, Aaron, Katie and Bernard\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=85016\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:81:\"https://dothewoo.io/lets-talk-wordcampus-2024-with-julia-aaron-katie-and-bernard/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:41723:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nBobWP: Well, today&#8217;s show, of course, is a special show because there is a huge event just around the corner, and not only do I have wonderful guests here, but this is a very, not the first time, but we have one of our sponsors send somebody here virtually as a guest host, Bernard Meyer. How do you like this? How do you like being a co-host?\n\n\n\nBernard: It is my first time and 30 seconds in, it is one of the most amazing experiences of my life. It&#8217;s only going to get better.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, so why don&#8217;t you just give a quick intro of who you are because this is really the first time you&#8217;ve been on the podcast.\n\n\n\nBernard: Yeah. So my name is Bernard Meyer. I&#8217;m the Senior Director of Communications and Creative at Omnisend. Omnisend is one of the sponsors for WordCamp US. Actually, WordCamp US will be our one-year anniversary of WordCamps. We just started last year at WordCamp US 2023, so this will be a full-year cycle. We are excited. Each WordCamp has been even better. This will be my first time at WordCamp US, so I&#8217;m expecting amazing things only because of what our CEO and VP of Marketing said about the last WordCamp US. According to what I heard, this is going to be even better. I&#8217;m also a contributor on the marketing team and the media core team and an organizer on the WordCamp Asia communications team. So I&#8217;m deep in there and, yeah, that&#8217;s my short version.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Very cool. Now, we have three of the organizers here as we usually do on Do the Woo for the flagship WordCamps. We always love to get that pumped up. We got to start talking about this. Everybody&#8217;s excited. I&#8217;m flying all the way from Portugal. I will say that I still question why they waited until I moved from the Pacific Northwest before putting a WordCamp up there, but I have my suspicions, and that&#8217;s for another entire podcast, so we won&#8217;t get into that part of it. Anyway, we&#8217;re going to have our three guests introduce themselves and we&#8217;re going to dive into WordCamp US. So let&#8217;s start with Katie.\n\n\n\nKatie: Hi all. I&#8217;m Katie Richards. I am one of the four folks on the lead organizing team for WordCamp US this year. This is my first time on the lead team. Last year I was involved with WordCamp US as the lead of the PR and comms team. So naturally this year, I am working with PR and comms, but also with the volunteers and the photography teams, trying to make sure that we have enough folks on the ground to make this event awesome and everyone knows what they need to know to have a successful event. When I&#8217;m not doing WordCamp stuff, I am the project manager of the community growth team at A2 Hosting.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Cool. Julia.\n\n\n\nJulia: Hello. Well, it&#8217;s a delight to be here and I last met in Taiwan at WordCamp Asia over a really lovely dinner, so it&#8217;s good to see you again, Bernard. My name&#8217;s Julia Golomb and I also am part of the lead four for WordCamp US along with Katie and Aaron who are here, and then Sandy Edwards who&#8217;s not on this recording today. And I am sponsored by Automattic to contribute full-time to the WordPress community team.\n\n\n\nBobWP: All right, and last, but very not least, Aaron.\n\n\n\nAaron: So I&#8217;m Aaron Campbell. I&#8217;m also on that lead four team for WordCamp US. I&#8217;ve been in the WordPress space a long time, probably, I guess, going on almost 20 years now, contributing to the project for maybe 18 of those. I used to contribute mostly through code and now I contribute mostly through things like organizing events like WordCamp US, things like that. When I am not organizing WordCamp US, I am Director of Product at A2 Hosting.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Alright, excellent. Well, let&#8217;s start first with Portland, Oregon. So tell us about Portland, Oregon. I could probably say a few things. I actually lived right between Portland and Seattle for many, many, many, many years. I&#8217;ve been to Portland a few times. Portland. What is special about Portland or what do you want to share about Portland?\n\n\n\nJulia: I am happy to start because I love Portland, Oregon. As a city, I make an effort to visit every single year because one of my best friends lives there and there really the nature is what stands out to me. So there are mountains and rivers and the coast. The Pacific Coast is a couple hours west of Portland, but just within the city, you can find hiking and beautiful views and also incredible food. Portland is really well known as a foodie hub and a coffee hub. So everyone who&#8217;s coming to WordCamp US, I encourage you to venture out around Portland to find some great spots for dinner, and I have no doubt that everyone will be having some fabulous coffee while you&#8217;re in town too.\n\n\n\nAaron: I have to agree with Julia. It&#8217;s a beautiful place. The food and the coffee definitely speak to me, if you will. I love it. I definitely take a little bit more of the kind of pragmatic approach to describing the city in that I feel like it really fits our needs for a conference as well. And it&#8217;s not easy to find a place for a conference like WordCamp US. It&#8217;s not a hundred thousand person conference, but we&#8217;re also pretty big now, and it can be hard to find a place and we bring in a global audience, right? Finding a place that can fit us, that can serve our needs that everybody can travel to easily. It&#8217;s a big ask and Portland really stepped up for us this year. The city itself is helping us in a lot of ways. They put a lot of effort into making sure that conferences can be held at this conference center and interact well with all the hotels and shops and whatnot around. I&#8217;m really excited just that they have been able to pull together this experience for us and for everybody attending.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Katie, have you ever been to Portland?\n\n\n\nKatie: I have not. Oregon is the one state on the west coast that I have not been to and I am very excited to check it off my bucket list, but I am excited for this event in Portland for all of the reasons that Julia and Aaron have mentioned, but also knowing that this is the first of two years that we get to be in the same venue, the same location, get to know the city. I think it&#8217;s going to really enhance our experience this year, but also next year as we regather and kind of have a homecoming.\n\n\n\nJulia: I also want to add that the venue where WordCamp US is taking place this year is absolutely gorgeous. It was just renovated in 2019 through a $40 million renovation project. It&#8217;s a super sustainable building. I think maybe I want to say Lead Platinum, which in the US is a certification for building sustainability. So it&#8217;s just a really nice place to be, and I&#8217;m excited to get to spend several days in such a beautiful space.\n\n\n\nBernard: I had a question. So for WordCamp EU, we did a little music video and we were thinking about doing something at Omnisend for Portland and I grew up in Miami and the furthest north I&#8217;ve been to the west coast, but the furthest north was like San Francisco. So I don&#8217;t know much about Portland except I had two things in my head, nature and coffee. So I&#8217;m happy to know that it&#8217;s a foodie culture as well. But there was one slogan when I was looking at Portland that I was wondering about it&#8217;s Keep Portland Weird. Is that a strong character of Portland or a good description or is that something that&#8217;s minimal?\n\n\n\nAaron: I think one of the cool ways that I see that coming through in Portland is the push for unique everything. Essentially fewer chains and more unique. So in my experience in Portland, and I maybe have not had as many as some of the others here, but restaurants that you just can&#8217;t find anywhere else, experiences that you can&#8217;t find anywhere else. To me that&#8217;s the weird part of keep it weird. And as someone who loves to experience through their unique food especially, I found that particularly fantastic that you didn&#8217;t have to sort through a million chains that I can already get at my home in Oklahoma. There was plenty of unique stuff there, so I&#8217;m excited for our guests to be able to experience the same.\n\n\n\nJulia: I also want to add that there is a light rail that runs through Portland and so there&#8217;s good public transit to get directly from the airport. You just get on this light rail train and take it from the airport to the venue. The Oregon Convention Center and the official WordCamp US hotel is directly across the street from the venue, and so you can go from your hotel to the airport and vice versa via public transit. I think it&#8217;s, I want to say, a $2 ticket. So people, of course, there&#8217;s rideshare available in Portland and people can use that, but there&#8217;s also the light rail as an option for getting around.\n\n\n\nBobWP: I think keeping it weird, what I love about that is it&#8217;s not only Portland&#8217;s goal, but I think what Aaron said, it&#8217;s a suggestion to everybody visiting. So it&#8217;s like, yeah, be unique and there&#8217;s just little different parts of Portland that you&#8217;ll find uniquely weird in one way or another and how you define weird, that can be something different for everyone, but I think that a lot of WordPressors will fit in well there. So I want to hear more about the actual venue. So let&#8217;s go from Portland, zero in on the venue. You talked a little bit about it, Julia, but there seems to be a lot of buzz around the venue. I&#8217;d love to hear from all three of you what it is that excites you about this venue, even though I don&#8217;t know if any of you have had a chance to visit it, but just from what you&#8217;re doing\n\n\n\nthrough research and planning.\n\n\n\nAaron: I have not had a chance to visit the venue. I have had the chance to watch some walkthrough videos that some of our folks have put together. There are a number of things that really excite me about this venue, though. My excitement really started to build when our designer, Sam, was pulling together some of the design concepts for our WordCamp US site this year and was just pulling up photos from the venue to use as inspiration and kind of the way that they&#8217;ve brought a lot of that nature feel of the Portland area inside the venue. It was exciting, it was fun, it is going to be a really nice place to be, and then it continued to grow as I saw just how much space we&#8217;re able to get at this venue, something that we have struggled with over the last couple of years, getting enough space that&#8217;s all close together for us to have our talks and our sponsors and all of our people, a couple thousand people all in one, I guess, kind of a cohesive group.\n\n\n\nAnd this year we have that. I&#8217;m super excited about how much we&#8217;re going to be able to do in the space, how much we&#8217;ve been able to open things up to sponsors to be more creative, more space for them to be and for how we can bring everyone together and not have to have some chunks of our talks or sponsors or whatever really far away from everyone else. We can have lots of space and have it all in one place. And then the last thing that I want to point out that&#8217;s been super exciting is the sustainability of the venue. And Julia brought this up and can probably speak a little bit more to it, but it&#8217;s not just that the venue is sustainable in the way it was built or the way that they operate. They hold us to a sustainability standard as well, and it&#8217;s been really nice having them come alongside us in that and help us figure out how we can have a 2000 person event, have our sponsors still have the impact that they want, and be as good to the environment as we can in the process. So sustainable materials, they&#8217;ve been really good at helping us do that.\n\n\n\nKatie: I think the thing that I&#8217;m most excited about over last year as far as the venue goes is that the space makes sense for us. We don&#8217;t have to move floors to get to additional conference spaces. Everything is kind of close by. It&#8217;ll be a natural flow in and out of programming rooms. Looking at it from a sponsor&#8217;s perspective, I&#8217;m really excited about what the sponsor hall is going to look like and the interactions we&#8217;re going to be able to have with attendees as they come in and out, which is really fun. I&#8217;m also excited that we haven&#8217;t mentioned this, I think, that the conference hotel for those who have purchased a ticket, it&#8217;s in your confirmation, you can book your hotel room. It&#8217;s right across the street, so as you leave your room in the morning to grab your coffee, you&#8217;re going to run into WordCamp attendees. You&#8217;ll be walking across the street with folks that you&#8217;ll be sitting in sessions with later. Having that sense of closeness gives it more of a summer camp vibe. We&#8217;re going to be eating and hanging out with and just being around all of our WordCamp community friends for several days, and that&#8217;s incredibly exciting.\n\n\n\nBobWP: So how about if we take this a day at a time? We have four days and I&#8217;ll start with day one, contributor day. So I want to hear not only about contributor day for people that don&#8217;t know what contributor day is and the opportunities for them, but if there is anything unique to this contributor day.\n\n\n\nAaron: I guess that one&#8217;s on me again because the mentor for the contributor team, this contributor day team this year. First of all, what are contributor days? To me, they&#8217;re a big part of what makes our WordPress project continue forward in a healthy way. We&#8217;re a mostly volunteer-driven project, and people&#8217;s lives ebb and flow for all kinds of reasons. People can contribute heavily at some times and less at other times, but these days give us the chance to really mentor in and bring in new folks to continue that healthy flow of people into our project. And so these days, it&#8217;s not just about the work that gets done on that day, although that&#8217;s great, that&#8217;s good. It&#8217;s great that we get all of our teams together and can make some progress, write some code, write some documentation, whatever it is. But to me, the coolest thing is bringing the people together and the mix of the old folks that have been contributing for a long while and the new folks that have never contributed and get us all in the same space and working together.\n\n\n\nThat&#8217;s the coolest, most exciting thing about contributor days for me personally. To that end, what this one&#8217;s going to look like, we have lots of space. Like I said, we have a nice giant hall that we&#8217;re going to be able to have all the contributors in at one time, so that is going to facilitate a lot of that meeting the people that you haven&#8217;t had the chance to meet before, getting to know the people that you&#8217;ve maybe only ever known digitally through their username on Slack, getting that chance to sit across the table from one of them or work together on a project. And so we have plenty of space to do that. And then we have a number of breakout rooms that we&#8217;re going to have available so that smaller groups can go off into a slightly lower noise area to work on something heads down if they really want to for a while. We&#8217;re going to even try to schedule out some of the times for those rooms so that if there are specific projects that teams want to work on and want people from other teams to be able to join them, they&#8217;ll be able to in these breakout rooms.\n\n\n\nBernard: I can add that I&#8217;m definitely excited just not to be a sponsor, but to be probably leading the marketing table and just to be a contributor. I love that. It&#8217;ll be my third time leading, but I love that in the beginning there&#8217;s this very small quiet phase on contributor days and then within 15 minutes people start working, there&#8217;s this nice buzz and then they go to lunch and then they come back and then you have this big networking effect where people just crossing tables and they begin to really get into the work and they begin to get into the community. Especially when I look at new contributors, they go from pretty shy before lunch to pretty happy and active and comfortable in the second part. So I&#8217;m pretty excited about that for all WordCamps, I would say definitely for us.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, for me, I think it&#8217;s sometimes I spend more time often with the community table. I&#8217;ll spend time there or within the community team, but I think this year I&#8217;m going to choose to buzz around, a fly and be the fly on the wall and just listen in because so much for me isn&#8217;t about actually getting my head down and working on things, but I&#8217;d love to hear what&#8217;s going on and there&#8217;s some teams I&#8217;ve never really sat and listened to for a while, so I think that&#8217;s going to be my goal this time around. It sounds like the perfect kind of venue for it and the space for it. So yeah, a lot of great stuff that leads us into the next day. So this is actually different because everything we&#8217;re usually like, okay, contributor day, bam, then we got two days of the event. I would like to hear about the showcase day because this is pretty cool.\n\n\n\nJulia: Wednesday, September 18th, is Showcase Day, so it&#8217;s day two of WordCamp US and Showcase Day is something that&#8217;s brand new this year for WordCamp US. The idea is to showcase the most innovative, cutting-edge uses of WordPress. So we&#8217;ll have folks showing off websites that they&#8217;ve developed that use really cool applications of WordPress and not only sites, but also plugins and just anything within the WordPress ecosystem. I&#8217;m super excited about Showcase Day. I think of everything that I&#8217;m psyched about for WordCamp US, which is a lot. Showcase day is the number one, just the caliber or the quality of presentations that we have in store for that day is phenomenal. And I would encourage everyone who&#8217;s attending WordCamp US, you do not want to miss Showcase Day. It&#8217;s the place to be.\n\n\n\nBernard: I was actually going to tell Aaron that I&#8217;m pretty excited about Contributor Day, but I&#8217;m extremely excited about Showcase. It is the number one thing. I have a general rough idea of what&#8217;s going to happen, but I actually don&#8217;t know what&#8217;s going to happen. And the way that Julia just mentioned that what they have in store is going to be amazing. I want to be there early just so I can secure a seat in the front and I want to stay there to use the bathroom before I go so I don&#8217;t move because I know that I&#8217;m going to get half the team to come leave the other half walking around and networking. But this is going to be something that we all have on our calendars and we&#8217;re fighting about who&#8217;s going to be able to show up or not.\n\n\n\nAaron: It&#8217;s definitely something that people are going to want to watch for the speaker and talk announcements that are going to be coming out very soon that will cover both the regular classic programming days that you were talking about Bob, as well as this showcase day. There&#8217;s going to be some really exciting stuff. I think that we can probably even talk a little bit to the kind of inspiration that launched this day last year. We had a really fantastic talk by NASA that was showcasing how they were using WordPress to run their site and they did a show-off, this is how we&#8217;re doing it. And then they also did a little bit of behind the scenes, this is how we did the thing. And it seemed like that was an extremely cool way of showing not just the big number that we always hear like, oh, WordPress powers 43% of the internet and it goes from these really big exciting sites down to everybody&#8217;s hobby site.\n\n\n\nBut instead it really dug into what are some of those, what is WordPress really capable of? What does some\n\n\n\nof that 43% actually look like? And so we thought that worked great, let&#8217;s expand that out. Let&#8217;s give that a whole day. We are doing way more than one cool exciting site. There&#8217;s a ton of amazing stuff happening that&#8217;s powered by WordPress. And so we want to get the chance for the folks that are doing these cutting-edge, exciting, interesting, innovative things with WordPress to show us the sort of wow side of what they&#8217;re doing and then ideally some of them to even come in and show us how we did this amazing thing, but how could you do something similar? And so that&#8217;s how we&#8217;re trying to target this day, have people showing off the wow and then have some people also digging into the how ideally exciting us about WordPress and showing us how we can all level up to do that kind of exciting stuff.\n\n\n\nBobWP: So we have Contributor Day, Showcase Day, and then we hit the big event for two days. Now I think how I&#8217;d like to take this is there&#8217;s so many pieces that happen during those two days. Let&#8217;s dive into it and I&#8217;d love to hear from all three of you on this.\n\n\n\nKatie: I know we say this every year, but one thing that WordCamp US has done consistently well and then better every year is that we&#8217;ve got an incredibly diverse range of speakers and talks for those two programming days. And not only did we build programming days with diversity in mind, but they&#8217;re excellent quality talks. So what we will have available for folks to listen to and interact with is perhaps the best programming that we&#8217;ve put together so far, which is really exciting and something that we try to do year over year is intrude and learn lessons from other WordCamps and take those into account as we start building out our programming. And that was one of the things that I learned fairly quickly on joining the lead team this year is how little I know about what goes into planning WordCamps and how much thought and work goes behind the scenes before a schedule can be announced. So it was really cool to watch come together this year and then be extra proud of the product that&#8217;s coming out of it.\n\n\n\nJulia: There are two pieces that I want to highlight from our schedule this year that are different than last year and perhaps previous years. One is that we are weaving showcase day talks throughout the Thursday and Friday programming as well. And so the showcase talks will be, I believe they&#8217;ll be highlighted on the agenda in a different color just so folks know that it&#8217;s a way to have that thread woven not only on Wednesday Showcase day, but also throughout the Thursday and Friday programming. And then we also this year have included a networking hour in the schedule that&#8217;s at the end of the day on Thursday in the sponsor hall. And this is based on feedback that we&#8217;ve heard from WordCamp US attendees about really valuing the networking opportunities that they find at WordCamp US and wanting some more dedicated time to meet other folks who are there, whether that&#8217;s attendees, sponsors, speakers, and get to know them, get to connect with them on a meaningful level.\n\n\n\nKatie: And if you&#8217;re an introvert, that&#8217;s not something you need to be concerned about. We&#8217;re going to make it as easy as possible for folks who are perhaps a little less comfortable in those situations to find like-minded folks and connect with people who have similar interests and passions within the WordPress space.\n\n\n\nAaron: As an outgoing introvert, I really appreciate that. I like to talk to people, but it can be hard to figure out where my people are, I guess so to speak. Where are the people that I can bring value to that conversation or do my part or learn something new and interesting? And so we&#8217;re trying to bring the sponsors in on that a little as well. One of the great things about WordCamps is that our attendees, they&#8217;re really our primary focus. We try to keep things extremely affordable for them to attend to make sure that their experience is amazing. I try not to talk about the money too much. It&#8217;s not what everybody wants to hear about, but every attendee costs us far more than they pay for their ticket to attend, and the sponsors are what make that possible. But not only do our sponsors come to us with the money to make this possible for all these attendees, they also come with often experts from their companies that have a wealth of knowledge to impart to our attendees.\n\n\n\nAnd so at times like these networking hours, it gives us the chance to leverage some of those experts and say, hey, if you want to talk about this thing, there are experts at this sponsor booth. Y&#8217;all can go hang out during networking hour and pick their brain, learn from people who are managing thousands or tens of thousands of servers, how to better manage your server. There are those people around and we&#8217;re going to be able to make that available to our attendees during networking hour.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Bernard, you said this is your one-year anniversary as a sponsor for Omnisend, and to me that&#8217;s kind of mind-blowing because it feels like you&#8217;ve been around a lot longer than that and more WordCamps than that. I don&#8217;t know. I&#8217;m thinking, wow, that&#8217;s a lot that&#8217;s happened in that period of time. What does WordCamp bring to you as a sponsor and especially hearing all of this?\n\n\n\nBernard: So I have two perspectives, have one as a sponsor and one as a sort of a contributor and a contributing member. So sometimes it&#8217;s a bit hard for me to separate those two, but both of them are related to people. I would say one on the contribution side. So of course there&#8217;s some challenges with contributing to WordPress, but every time you meet people in person, you get this surge of energy when you see like-minded people who are all working together, giving up their free time, sponsored or not, they&#8217;re giving up their time to build this thing, continue pushing it forward, and they put all of their passion into it. And I think that this is the basis for where we as sponsors see value because then you create a community of companies or plugins that also have the similar kind of philosophy. They have the same vibe.\n\n\n\nThey&#8217;re there of course to earn money and to make sales and all that, but they have at the basis it feels like they have this urge to help each other, just whatever it is. So we have a lot of people that we may not find any particular way to work with, but we just want to connect with them and network with them and keep in touch with them and just hope that at some point in the future we&#8217;ll find some business reason to stay in touch. But for the most part, the most valuable thing that we get there is that we network with people who are valuable based on their value, based on their intelligence, based on their passion. And then the business reason comes in a little bit second. And I think the other reason is that Omnisend started more in the Shopify ecosystem and that one, it is very interesting place, but it is pretty different because that one tends to be a bit more transactional, firstly on the surface.\n\n\n\nAnd so there&#8217;s a lot of value placed on the size and scope of your business first and then whatever value you have, secondly. And here, no matter who you are, you can talk to Matt, you can talk to Josepha, you can talk to people who you may not have had any other opportunity to talk with before. And then you can find again places in which you can build that relationship later on. So I think for us from the first time, like I said, when our CEO and VP of marketing just attended WordCamp US, which was last year, they&#8217;ve come back with so much fire and every time we go to the WordCamps events, the flagships or the small ones, we have that fire. It is reignited again and again and again. So I think the value is one that we found one time and it is just continuous and it is always increasing. So it&#8217;s all of us an addiction, I would say everyone is fighting to go to the next WordCamp, and I think the team we&#8217;re sending keeps on getting bigger because everyone just wants to go. That&#8217;s hard to summarize, but I think people, that&#8217;s my word.\n\n\n\nAaron: I love that. If we can be that place where it&#8217;s like, hey, come to WordCamp US, get fired up. Be the person that comes back to your team with a million great ideas and a fire behind you. I love that. I hope we&#8217;re that for all kinds of companies and people.\n\n\n\nBernard: I think that anyone who has any doubts or anyone who&#8217;s just a bit curious, the only thing I would say is, as Aaron said, the tickets for WordCamp are pretty cheap. Just go attend the WordCamp, go to the four days or the three days or just the two days, even just one day, just go to contributor showcase day and you will probably catch fire within two or three hours, I think. So any doubters, your doubts will be relieved pretty soon.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And I think that from someone that has been going to WordCamp since, I think my first one was 2010, and I&#8217;ve gone to various ones over the years. I&#8217;ve spent many years at what I call other conferences where like you said, they&#8217;re very transactional. And I think one of the things people need to remember is that when you walk up to a sponsor at WordCamp, the best thing about that is you&#8217;re not shoved in the face with a product. You actually get to meet the people behind the product. And when I moved into the WordPress space, that was one of the things that stood out most to me was I never felt like I got to really know anybody at a company through a conference because it was that. And you&#8217;re going to get to know people, you&#8217;re going to have good conversations. You&#8217;ll probably meet them later on at a party or you&#8217;ve already met them and you&#8217;re just reconnecting again. So you&#8217;re going to meet people, you&#8217;re going to talk to people, and you&#8217;re going to probably make friends\n\n\n\n. It&#8217;s really valuable. And after all that is done, you go to all these side events, you&#8217;re going to go to breakfast and lunches and dinners and wander around Portland and drink craft beer and coffee and eat food. Then comes the social.\n\n\n\nJulia: Yes. I&#8217;m so glad you brought up the social. I was ready to talk about it.\n\n\n\nBobWP: We&#8217;re there now, end of day four, and it is time for the social. Tell us about the social.\n\n\n\nJulia: Alright, our four days of WordCamp US conclude on the evening of Friday, September 20th, with the WordCamp US Social, which will be held at OMSI, the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. And it&#8217;s a really cool museum on the river with a submarine, an old submarine that is in the river, and attendees can go into the submarine and tour it, which is pretty cool. There&#8217;s a planetarium programming running throughout the event, so people can pop in to see different planetarium films, and there&#8217;s going to be refreshments available. The most important thing to know is that this party, this WordCamp US social, is included with your WordCamp US ticket. Bring your badge. Your badge is your ticket for admission to the social. And if you have a guest with you who&#8217;s in Oregon traveling with you, maybe not attending the daytime programming, just buy them a ticket for WordCamp US. Make sure that you print their badge at the registration desk, and then that&#8217;s their ticket to join you as a plus one at the social. Everyone&#8217;s welcome. It&#8217;s going to be a really, really lovely event and an opportunity to get to relax and meet folks and see old friends.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Excellent. So we&#8217;re going to wrap up here and I think everybody&#8217;s excited. The thing is, probably people say, Bob, you don&#8217;t sound very exciting, but I&#8217;m holding it all inside me. That&#8217;s how I do my excitement. I never sound super overly excited, and I&#8217;m sure anybody here can attest to that. But yeah, I&#8217;ve got my flight booked, I&#8217;ve got my hotel booked. I will be staying right across the street.\n\n\n\nJulia: Bob, you&#8217;ve booked your flight, you&#8217;ve booked your hotel. Have you purchased your WordCamp US ticket?\n\n\n\nBobWP: Oh yeah, I did. And did I purchase the last one? That&#8217;s what I want to know.\n\n\n\nJulia: You did not purchase the last ticket. There are still tickets available. If you are listening to this and have not yet purchased your WordCamp US ticket, go to your computer right now and do that. Please get your ticket now. It&#8217;s really helpful for us as we&#8217;re planning to have a clear sense of numbers, and we have tons of space, so everyone who wants to come can, but just make sure you get your ticket as soon as possible.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And we talked about all the great sponsors and I could list them all, but please go to this site, make sure you visit all the sponsors, and if you want to be one of those great sponsors and all of us clamoring up to you, are there any spots left?\n\n\n\nKatie: Yes, there are several spots left, and there is an interest form available on the website as well. So if you are thinking maybe I&#8217;d like to consider sponsoring this year, reach out, have a conversation with our sponsor team.\n\n\n\nJulia: In particular, we&#8217;ve got a couple of our lowest-cost sponsorship opportunities available for $5,000. You can have a presence in the WordCamp US sponsor hall, which means that a couple thousand people will be visiting your table. And it&#8217;s a great way to have that presence in the sponsor hall. That&#8217;s called the Our Author Level sponsorship.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Very cool. Well, first of all, I want to thank Bernard for co-hosting and also lending his perspective on the whole thing. Do make sure and visit the Omnisend Booth, find Bernard. Tell him what you thought about him as a co-host and if he should come back again.\n\n\n\nBernard: It lived up to the expectations. It was the most fantastic 50 minutes of my life.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Excellent. And thank you three and the entire team. This is huge. It&#8217;s amazing what you pull off. There&#8217;s going to be all these volunteers helping you, and it&#8217;s just your hard work and everything just is, there&#8217;s so much gratitude.\n\n\n\nJulia: You mentioned volunteers, Bob. I think we also have a few volunteers&#8217; spots still available. So if somebody is listening to this and moved to contribute to WordCamp US as a volunteer while you&#8217;re actually there, send an email to us at WordCamp.org and let us know that you want to come as a volunteer.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Cool. Well, tons of opportunities. So yeah, go to us.wordcamp.org and the dates are September 17th through 20th. So it&#8217;s coming up real quick. I&#8217;m excited. Please come and say hi to me or find me somewhere. If you&#8217;re one of those volunteers that actually volunteered afterwards, come up and I&#8217;ll take you around and I&#8217;ll introduce you to Bernard because you&#8217;ll love the guy. And I&#8217;m so looking forward to this. And just want to thank all four of you for joining us for this particular episode. And yeah, we&#8217;ll see everybody at WordCamp US. So thank you very much.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nA special thanks to our sponsors who will also be sponsoring WordCampUS. Visit them on the WordCamp site.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsor/avalara/\">Avalara</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsor/godaddy/\">GoDaddy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsor/hostinger/\">Hostinger</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsor/omnisend/\">Omnisend</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/sponsor/weglot/\">Weglot</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWelcome to a special episode of WordPress Event Talk, where we dive into the excitement and anticipation surrounding the upcoming WordCampUS 2024, taking place September 17-20.\n\n\n\nIn this episode, we have a unique treat for you as one of our sponsors, Omnisend, has sent their Senior Director of Communications and Creative, Bernard Meyer, to join BobWP as a guest host. And we are chatting with the three of the four organizer leads, Katie Richards, Julia Golomb and Aaron Campbell. \n\n\n\nThey chat about everything you need to know about WordCamp US, from the host city, Portland, Oregon, to the innovative Showcase Day, and the various programming and networking opportunities that await attendees. \n\n\n\nWhether you&#8217;re a seasoned WordCamp veteran or a first-time participant, this episode is packed with valuable insights and behind-the-scenes details that will get you pumped up for the event. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Highlights of WordCampUS 2024</h2>\n\n\n\nWordCamp US Overview: The upcoming WordCampUS event in Portland, Oregon, promises to be an exciting and memorable occasion. Our discussion highlights the unique aspects and attractions of Portland, including its stunning natural landscapes, vibrant food and coffee culture, and the city&#8217;s quirky charm encapsulated in the slogan &#8220;Keep Portland Weird.&#8221; \n\n\n\nVenue Details: The venue for WordCampUS is the Oregon Convention Center, which has recently undergone a $40 million renovation project. This sustainable building, certified with LEED Platinum, offers a beautiful and eco-friendly space for the event. Its convenient location includes a light rail connection from the airport and is directly across the street from the official WordCamp US hotel, enhancing accessibility and attendee experience.\n\n\n\nThe Event\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Day 1: Contributor Day: Contributor Day is important for mentoring and onboarding new contributors to the WordPress project. It offers extensive networking and collaboration opportunities in a large, cohesive space with dedicated breakout rooms for focused work. This day is about more than just the work accomplished; it&#8217;s about building connections and fostering the WordPress community spirit.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Day 2: Showcase Day: A new addition this year, Showcase Day is designed to highlight the most innovative and cutting-edge uses of WordPress. Attendees can look forward to great presentations and demonstrations of websites, plugins, and applications within the WordPress ecosystem. This day aims to inspire and showcase the versatility and power of WordPress.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Days 3 &amp; 4: Main Conference Days: The main conference days promise a diverse range of speakers and talks, each offering excellent quality and insightful content. This year introduces a networking hour at the end of the day on Thursday in the sponsor hall, providing a dedicated time for attendees to connect with others, including sponsors, speakers, and fellow participants, fostering relationships.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nSponsorship and Community: Bernard Meyer shares his perspective on the immense value of sponsoring WordCamp US and the community it fosters. Unlike other transactional conferences, WordCampUS allows sponsors and attendees to connect on a personal level, building relationships that go beyond mere business interactions. This sense of community and shared passion is what makes WordCampUS special.\n\n\n\nWordCamp US Social: The event will conclude with a social gathering at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry (OMSI) on the evening of Friday, September 20th. Attendees will have the opportunity to explore the museum, including a submarine tour and planetarium programming. The social is included with the WordCampUS ticket, and attendees are reminded to bring their badges for admission. Guests can also join by purchasing a ticket, making it a perfect opportunity to relax and connect with others.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\">Get your ticket to WordCampUS</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/volunteering-at-wordcamp-us-2024/\">Sign up as a volunteer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2024/call-for-sponsors/\">Sponsor WordCampUS</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 05 Aug 2024 13:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:8;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:90:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #105 – Gutenberg 18.9, Block Themes and WooCommerce\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=29640\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:103:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-105-gutenberg-18-9-block-themes-and-woocommerce/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48808:\"Ellen Bauer and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Gutenberg 18.9, Block Themes, WooCommerce and more.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-105-gutenberg-18-9-block-themes-and-woocommerce/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-105-gutenberg-18-9-block-themes-and-woocommerce/#transcript\">Transcript</a>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nShow Notes\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Special Guest: Ellen Bauer </h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/ellenbauer\">On X (former Twitter) @ellenbauer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.elmastudio.de/en/\">ElmaStudio</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://join.slack.com/t/woocommercecommunity/shared_invite/zt-2noqfhew6-7C9cJTwF8EnbfAlNEhv78g\">Join WooCommerce Community Slack</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/posts/woocommerce-in-2024-roadmap-update/\">WooCommerce in 2024 and beyond: Roadmap update</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Learn.WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Video playlist <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7EQuGoWcrS2ElPx3A_zrCsM5\">Intermediate Theme Developer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Course: <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-theme-developer/\">Intermediate Theme Developer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Course: <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Upcoming Events</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>August 13&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302520686/\">Developer Hours: Hello, Blocks! – An Introduction to Block Development</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>August 15: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/09/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-2/\">Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about what’s next in Gutenberg (August 2024)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>August 27: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302512124/\">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a> </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Developer Blog</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/30/building-a-card-layout-with-a-hover-reveal-effect/\">Building a card layout with a “hover reveal” effect</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/22/mixing-and-matching-styles-colors-and-typography-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Mixing and matching styles, colors, and typography in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.9 </h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-9-31-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.9? (31 July)</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in active development or discussed</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/61577\">&nbsp;Add plugin template registration API #61577</a>\n\n\n\nStay in Touch\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\">Please write us a review </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\nTranscript\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, hello and welcome to our 105th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 18.9, a little bit of block themes, WooCommerce, and more. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress Open Source project sponsored by Automattic.\n\n\n\nMy special guest today is the wonderful Ellen Bauer, early adopter of blocks and block themes with themes from ElmaStudio, from New Zealand, temporarily from Bangkok, Thailand. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you, Ellen?\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Thank you very much. I&#8217;m happy to be here. Yes, I&#8217;m in Bangkok right now, so I&#8217;m very good. Thank you. How are you, Birgit?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I&#8217;m good. I&#8217;m good. Munich&#8217;s getting really summer temperatures, so we&#8217;re 33 degrees already early in the morning. Well, not that early, but it&#8217;s really hot. And with apartments without air conditioning, we have fans.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Oh, that is great. I think that&#8217;s even hotter than Bangkok right now because here it&#8217;s the rainy season, so it&#8217;s coolish for Bangkok terms, maybe 29 or 30 degrees.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it&#8217;s similar.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Quite nice.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It&#8217;s probably humid too.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It is. It is, yeah. But compared to two months ago, it&#8217;s actually really nice. So yeah, we are enjoying it. Another two weeks, then we will be back in New Zealand. Winter in New Zealand. So a change is coming up.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, you need some warm clothes there.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, I already ordered fleece sweaters. That will work.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So since we last talked, and it&#8217;s probably&#8230; Well, you and I met at WordCamp Europe, but since you were last on the Changelog, your responsibilities have changed quite a bit in the last few weeks. So what are you working on right now?\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, that is true. Changed a lot. So just after WordCamp Europe in Turin, I started as a product manager for WooCommerce, with Automattic now, which is very exciting and it&#8217;s a great responsibility and opportunity for me that I&#8217;m very excited about.\n\n\n\nAnd everyone has been welcoming me so nicely and I&#8217;m still in the onboarding phase and it&#8217;s really, really fun at the moment and lots to do and I have lots of ideas too. My main responsibility is trying to increase block theme adoption for WooCommerce and there&#8217;s a lot to do still. So lots of work and lots of fun working on that. I&#8217;m really, really grateful.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, just from my personal opinion, I think I couldn&#8217;t have chosen a better person to do all that.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Thank you.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I&#8217;m really happy that you&#8217;re my coworker and that you&#8217;re working on the WooCommerce things. So things are moving in the WordPress space. There are quite a few things happening and you can all learn about these other things on the other podcasts like Do the Woo, I don&#8217;t know. If you haven&#8217;t tuned into those podcasts, there are about 12 different shows with, I think, 20 different hosts, so that&#8217;s definitely something to look about, dear listeners.\n\n\n\nAnd there&#8217;s also a WP Minute with Matt Medeiros. He has some great shows and commentary on the news in WordPress and here we stick to Gutenberg and what&#8217;s around blocks development and block themes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h3>\n\n\n\nSo the first announcement today is the videos for the Intermediate Theme Developer course on the Learning pathways on YouTube.\n\n\n\nSo the training team has been working on learning pathways for beginner, intermediate, and advanced and then build courses around it. So you could start with the beginner developer course and then go to the intermediate theme developer and then to the advanced. And all those courses or lessons in those courses are actually self-contained, so you could just pick and choose which one you want to learn about.\n\n\n\nBut the intermediate theme developer course, there are 32 videos and it&#8217;s covering everything from global styles and theme JSON template, template parts, patterns, style variations, block styles, you name it, what&#8217;s in block themes, but the course is also built around&#8230; It covers all also classic themes.\n\n\n\nSo for instance, the Loop or how to use the theme JSON in classic themes. So if you need some refresher on certain concepts, you definitely can watch them individually or use the course on <a href=\"http://learn.wordpress.org\">learn.wordpress.org</a> to get it in sequence. I also will share the link to the beginner WordPress developer course, which has been published also a couple of weeks ago. Just want to remind you that that is there. Yeah.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: We also have upcoming developer hours and I think that&#8217;s a really exciting topic for block developers on August 13, 3:00 PM UTC with the title Developer Hours, Hello Blocks and Introduction to Block Development. I think that&#8217;s a super interesting topic for everyone who hasn&#8217;t built blocks or just wants to get a refresher or update on it.\n\n\n\nSo blocks are used now with almost all WordPress projects and core blocks cover quite a wide range of things that you can do with them. You also have a lot of third-party block libraries available, but sometimes it&#8217;s just not enough and you need to build your own blog. I&#8217;ve been there.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, you definitely have been there, yes.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It&#8217;s really a lesson learned to try to build your own block and it&#8217;s actually way easier, I felt, for most cases, for most custom blocks compared to what I initially thought. And so we&#8217;ve come up a long way and you can learn in this developer hours how to build your own custom block from scratch, which is really cool. So there&#8217;s a meet up link for that in the show notes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, just a couple of weeks ago, there was the developer hours. Do you really need a custom block? What are the alternatives to building custom blocks? So you decide it. Block styles are not enough. Block variations are not enough. Patterns with sync patterns, all rights are not enough. You need your own custom block because the core block doesn&#8217;t give you enough features or anything, but then you need to start from scratch. And if you haven&#8217;t started yet, this definitely gets you an in into the topic and the space.\n\n\n\nSo two days later, there will be a hallway hangout with Anne McCarthy and it&#8217;s about let&#8217;s chat about what&#8217;s next in Gutenberg. With WordPress 6.6 being out, the teams are already working feverishly on what they want to put into WordPress 6.7 and Anne McCarthy wrote about this one Hangout seeks to be another snapshot of what&#8217;s being worked on Gutenberg plugin to provide a broader awareness to more WordPress contributors and get feedback.\n\n\n\nThe hope is to come together early to talk about different features, flush out concerns sooner, and help more folks get involved and find ways to work better together. I know that there are quite a few things in the roadmap for 6.7. The official roadmap hasn&#8217;t been published yet, but watch out. I think after that hallway hangout, we will find something on the make blog. Are you excited about 6.7?\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yes, and I will definitely try to make that hallway hangout. I think I will be just, I think the first time back in New Zealand, so I hope I&#8217;m not too jet-lagged.\n\n\n\nBut I think that&#8217;s really exciting, and I appreciate Anne&#8217;s work of giving us an overview of things that are happening with her source of truth for the releases, they&#8217;re just amazing and so helpful for everyone who is busy and can&#8217;t catch up with everything happening because that&#8217;s happening so much.\n\n\n\nI think I joined the last hallway hangout on what gave us a glimpse into the future and also being able to be shaping that future. So I hope lots of people can join.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I forgot to tell anybody when it&#8217;s going to happen. It&#8217;s going to be August 15th at 15:00 UTC, 3:00 PM UTC and I also share the announcement for that hangout in the show notes because it also lists what parts of the content of it, and it&#8217;s about data views of course, and it&#8217;s about sync patterns, it&#8217;s about canonical block examples.\n\n\n\nThe discussion hasn&#8217;t ended yet what a canonical plugin will be, but people are working on additional blocks for core, then gallery block grid layout, and then the Zoom out view definitely. And together with the advanced content only editing, those will be topics of that hangout and see the first iterations or discussions or heated discussions about it.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, I think also for WooCommerce, the concept of canonical blocks and having some of them, maybe for Woo blocks as well is really interesting and could help just filling some gaps that are there currently for block theme builders and just everyone working with blocks trying to build e-commerce sites. So yeah, that&#8217;s really exciting.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s one more announcement, which another developer hour and with the title, Building WordPress Themes With Create Block Theme Plugin, the create block theme plugin, which I think is so exciting and it&#8217;s happening on August 27 at 3:00 PM UTC and with Tammie Lister and you, Birgit.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yes, I really love the create block theme plugin and I get lots of questions from our team users or agency users, how they can use it to maybe create child themes or create new themes that are block themes easily. So I think that&#8217;s really exciting for small site builders and agencies to work with that plugin and learn about it more in the developer hour.\n\n\n\nSo the topics that you two will cover, and it sounds like a lovely learning session, is you will cover how to create a theme with a plugin from scratch, how to clone an existing block theme or create a child theme. That&#8217;s one of the questions I think I have a lot from people who have been working more with classic themes is do I even need a child theme? How do I create one from a block theme? How does it all work?\n\n\n\nI think it&#8217;s still a new concept for many people, so that will be super useful. Then how to customize your theme in the site editor is also very good, I feel, because there&#8217;s still some confusion of what the site editor is actually doing, how to use it. So I think that will be so helpful for people, how media is used in templates and how you can manage media, how the plugin helps make themes, translation ready, that&#8217;s also one of the questions I have from people. That is all really, really helpful content that you will cover in that developer hour.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, yeah, the create block theme bridges the gap. We have three different design tools. One is coming through theme JSON, first is core and then there is the theme JSON from the theme, and then there are user changes in the site editor and they all come together on the site through the black box, I call the site the style engine. But the user changes, they all end up in the database.\n\n\n\nAnd for a theme developer, if you want to grade the theme that you reuse someplace else, you need to get that out of the database into your theme JSON and that&#8217;s what this create block theme plugin is actually doing and then a lot of things around it. So you can export whatever you do in the site editor or your client is doing in the site editor, you can all then harvest that and put it back into the theme to maybe use on other sites or put it into version control or just have it on a test site or something like that.\n\n\n\nSo create block theme. So August 27th, 3:00 PM UTC, 15:00 UTC is definitely a place if you&#8217;re interested in that particular topic.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Contributions</h3>\n\n\n\nI wanted to also point our listeners, dear listeners to our developer blog because we have two new posts that might be interesting to you.\n\n\n\nDamon Cook, he&#8217;s a developer relations manager or developer relations person from WP Engine. He published on the developer block building a card layout with a hover reveal effect, meaning in the short tutorial you learn how to add a block style to a core block. That&#8217;s always a great skill to have and then add additional CSS for animation. And it&#8217;s even interesting for content creators, you learn how to create a grid block with card style cover block.\n\n\n\nSo I just reviewed it and tested the code and it&#8217;s a real neat example on what is possible with the block editor. Even if the core doesn&#8217;t provide you within all the features like the animation, you could still add it in CSS in a block style. And similar to that is Justin Tadlock&#8217;s new post on the developer block, it&#8217;s mixing and matching styles, colors, and typography in WordPress 6.6, and he teaches us how to create custom color and topography only global style variations now with the new version.\n\n\n\nSo universe is expanding exponentially with all the style variations and where you can do section styles and then just offer different variations for certain sections. It&#8217;s really neat. There was also a hallway hangout where we kind of discussed that all previously, so I will share that link as well in the show notes.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, I love just the&#8230; It&#8217;s an easy concept with the style variations and styles really get a lift different look on the front end. I really love it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, it&#8217;s not only on the front end, you also get it into the editor if you do it right. It puts it into the editor. So I did some basic, basic testings and I was able to just put in the JSON notation. You can just put a style variation in the styles&#8217; directory on your theme and it pulls it automatically in. You don&#8217;t have to worry about PHP or registering your CSS separately from editors.\n\n\n\nIt all comes in right away and it also uses those things in front end as well as in block editor and it&#8217;s just fabulous. There is some nice magic going on. I haven&#8217;t finished my post yet, but I&#8217;m going to write on the Gutenberg times about it, how to easy put a frame around your images and all that or different kind of frames or shadows and all that, how to just add it to a style and then grab it in the theme or WordPress grabs it from your styles&#8217; directory in the theme, so it&#8217;s really magic. All right.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: That is cool.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That&#8217;s really cool.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; Gutenberg 18.9</h3>\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: So yeah, let&#8217;s talk about the Gutenberg release 18.9. That&#8217;s really cool that it&#8217;s like 18 releases. Really, really great. So with this release, there were 245 PRs merged by 59 contributors and the release contains 84 enhancements and 72 bug fixes. That&#8217;s a lot of work. Really, really beautiful to see that coming together.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, don&#8217;t worry, we are not talking about every single one of them. Otherwise, we would be here another two and a half hours or three, but no.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: We&#8217;re wrapping it together.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, we&#8217;re wrapping it together. So the biggest changes are in the block library. That was more a quality of life changes that they added examples to the preview and previews to the blocks. There were a few blocks where you have them and then there are quite a few blocks where you don&#8217;t have them.\n\n\n\nAnd they started to work in 18.8 And then 18.9 They continue it and now there are examples for the post author block, the post date block, we don&#8217;t call them that anymore. It&#8217;s the author block, the date block, the featured image block and the terms block when you have them in the insert. In code, they still have the prefix of post, but that prefix went away. But that&#8217;s definitely a quality of life change. So it makes the mystery, takes the mystery out of it. What is this kind of block? What does it do?\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It&#8217;s very helpful. Then the query loop block got enhancements too. So the post list variation was removed, the convert, the post content type setting to a toggle group control. If there were a few items, then query loop changed the default query loop variations and set query loop to have the inherent value by default. Then I think the SoundCloud icon got updated in the social links block. Oh, that&#8217;s another block. No worries. Not in the query loop block anymore, but it also got an update.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, the icon was actually updated. On the query loop there, they have the inherent value by default is something that, I don&#8217;t know, it was a 50/50 chance that people get confused about it, what it does and it was not by default. Switched on so when you do the categories or so, it takes the inherent value from the query parameters, from the link where it came from, and sometimes that people get confused when they built their own query loops on pages.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It actually confused me quite a lot in the beginning. I remember that and I never quite knew should I have it toggled on or off and I always had to test it out. I remember that got me always.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, and now you get confused the other way because they changed it around.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I feel. Yeah, probably. I always had to test it. I was like, why is it not working how I wanted it to work?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It wasn&#8217;t intuitive and I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s more intuitive now, but we will find out.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It&#8217;s true.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So test it.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I&#8217;ll test it again too. I haven&#8217;t tested it\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And dear listeners, everything here is for testing. Test it out and chime in. And I&#8217;m just going to do a little side note here. On the WordPress Slack there is an outreach channel where we can discuss those confusing things. So if you are not quite sure how it&#8217;s supposed to work, come into the channel, discuss it with us.\n\n\n\nWell, there are quite a few theme developers in there and we have about 800 people in the channel. Not all of them, most of them are lookers of course, like in any community. But there&#8217;s always somebody there who can help out and it&#8217;s quite a nice bunch and we have all been there that we tried to figure things out and needed help figuring it out. So it was coming into the outreach channel.\n\n\n\nSo as for the enhancement, there&#8217;s enhancements on the components, quite a few, but I wanted to just point out the tabs component is getting quite some attention now because it&#8217;s one of the components that you could add to, that is needed for the data views or for the admin as well as for content creators. So they&#8217;re building that component so you can add into your custom blocks if there&#8217;s a need for that.\n\n\n\nAnd it also is used actually in the sidebar when you have the settings and the styles tabs in the sidebar from a block that&#8217;s also using the tabs component and there are quite a few changes there. So check them out.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: And for the design tools, I think border blocks support got added to quite a few blocks. The term description block, the media text block, gallery block, border block support, the social links, paragraph quote and heading got border support or is it inherited from outer blocks? I&#8217;m not a hundred percent sure, maybe you can help me out there, Birgit.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: No, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s inherited. It&#8217;s block intern.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Just edit directly.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Directly. So if you put a paragraph in your canvas, you get in the style section, you get the border controls like radius and color and thickness and style and there was for WordPress 6.6, I published a post with the roster of which design tools are available for which block because there are quite a few holes.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I&#8217;m surprised that it isn&#8217;t. I thought that heading and things had the border control already. It&#8217;s such a useful little support that can be almost on every call block, I feel.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Right. But it needs to have a few iterations before it gets rolled out to all the blocks to make sure that it&#8217;s actually feasible and workable. And until then, it was only on the group block and on the pull quote and on the columns I think and images. So there were quite a few that had it and now they&#8217;re actually going through the list on Adam and whichever block can actually be using it.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: So there are quite a few that it gets added to, which I think is useful. I remember when I built my own blocks, I always used to try to add it to the blocks because they&#8217;re just a useful little snippet and can be used in creative ways and be helpful at some point.\n\n\n\nI think sometimes I use just the bottom border to create a line below something or above something. So yeah, you can be quite creative with to use. I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s supposed to be used that way, maybe I&#8217;m getting people into wrong&#8230; Giving them wrong ideas.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: No, the tools are there to just have a border on the bottom of things or yeah, I sometimes used it not with the block editor, but when I was building sites and doing some CSS there, I was only just using the right side at the bottom to mimic a drop shadow without having to use the drop shadow and it&#8217;s all there.\n\n\n\nYou can have a radius there, you can have a border color changes thickness also the different types. So they&#8217;re solid, their started line and all that. That&#8217;s all available now to all those blocks. And one of them is actually also the buttons block.\n\n\n\nSo you can have border now, you always could have a border around the single button but not around the whole button set if you have two or three or more buttons in a row. So that is really cool too. Yeah.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: What else do we have in here? I think an update on data views, right?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well there&#8217;s more support coming on. So the latest comment got color support and then the buttons got padding border and color and the image got margin support that I was surprised that it didn&#8217;t have it, but it obviously didn&#8217;t have it before. And then the code book also got spacing support. So I have to rebuild the blog post that I did on the make blog about the roster and which design tools are supported by which block for the next version definitely as well.\n\n\n\nSo data views, there is now a reordering of the columns possible, so when you see your pages in a list, you can change the order of the columns and possibly also switch it off. It also now has support for the filters, you can combine fields to filter things. And it also now gives you an updated front page badge in your pages where the page that is the front page is going to be identified differently. So with a nice icon, so that&#8217;s the data views. Data views are just the admin pages for themes, for templates, pages and patterns in the site editor.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, I really love that update. I think it just brings this modern feel into WordPress. I think we have been looking at the tables for too long.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Right, right. And I&#8217;m glad that they&#8217;re doing it for the site editor separately from the WP admin just so it works out nicely, but it actually is another point of friction for new users where they see the, it&#8217;s not a consistent admin thing, it of gives a little bit of a confusion what is in which place, where do I go from things.\n\n\n\nWe know that from WordPress.com and they had Calypso, but that&#8217;s a temporary thing, of course. And I know that some of the contributors already working on getting the list of posts into the data and the new data views, but it needs to be done very carefully because there are quite a few extensibility features beforehand and the backwards compatibility with plugins and all, because for 10 years pretty much, plugins were the ones who actually fixed some of the old UI in WordPress and every plugin did it a different way.\n\n\n\nSo we need to make sure that all the contributors all want to make sure that all this backwards compatibility is not going to blow up some pages there.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Very exciting work, I feel. So another update has been to the locking of blocks, I think UI update. So they tweaked the&#8230; I think just edit some spacing and change the button size of the block logging modal. So I think it just has a little bit more spacing and is easier to read and update. That was also in the latest release.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes. Sometimes these little tweaks actually help a lot, contributing to the consistency and to take out the mystery and make the user brain feel comfortable where they are and not get confused just because.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, definitely so much. Small changes can make a big difference. It&#8217;s really amazing too to see that. And I feel like think mainly it&#8217;s the spacing added and the button size. It does look a little bit cleaner and better to understand for our brains. So I think that&#8217;s a good thing.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And then there&#8217;s one new API that, well it&#8217;s not new, but the block bindings API received some unification from get value and get values on the functions there that you have get value, set value, set values and get values, that&#8217;s certainly for developers.\n\n\n\nInteresting to make sure that your block binding still work with this and have some additional, there&#8217;s no additional features in there. I think just that it&#8217;s a developer experience enhancement, so it makes it a little bit easier to work with the block binding.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: All right. So I think then we move on to experiments or did I skip something? I&#8217;m just wondering.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: No, I don&#8217;t think so.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Experiments</h3>\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: There&#8217;s a long list of&#8230; So yeah, in the experiments I think it&#8217;s all about the grid. Am I right? And you maybe, Birgit, need to help me out a little bit here getting the listeners up to date because I haven&#8217;t had the chance to properly test it myself. I will do that definitely. But I think it&#8217;s just fine-tuning and some things have been disabled. So maybe help me out, Birgit.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I do. So it&#8217;s just one of the experiments that is there is the interactive grid layout and there have been quite a few changes there or updates that we want to point out. One is the block movers, the handles have changed and it&#8217;s probably easier to move now blocks from one grid cell to the other, which you probably want to do anyway.\n\n\n\nAnd then also adding a block to the grid block was, I tested it and it confused me a bit and I was not alone was that I would have hoped that the plus sign for the inserter would be in the grid cell, but it was on the outside of the grid block and it wouldn&#8217;t help. It was tricky to get a new block into a full grid block. So that has changed. You definitely need to switch on the experiments though to figure that out.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: So it&#8217;s just if you have, I think under Gutenberg experiments, and I think this is grid interactivity is the name that you have to switch on, right?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And then the other part is that there&#8217;s a visualizer popover and they also confuse people how to use it and they hide it now under the canvas, so it&#8217;s hidden away. So for the manual grids, they disable some of the inserter in between inserters and they also don&#8217;t display the default appender for the manual grid, but it&#8217;s really a work in progress and it definitely needs some more testing.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It is, and it&#8217;s quite complicated to make it very user-friendly, but a great tool to have. So that&#8217;s really exciting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it is. Absolutely.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Working with grids, finally. I remember that was one of the first more complex blocks that I will build was I want to have grid layout and actually some of the things that are now in core look quite similar to what I have done, which is cool to see that it&#8217;s very different, of course, easier to use in complex, but the core with rows and how you can snap them into multiple columns, it&#8217;s quite similar, which is cool. And you guys come into core, I&#8217;m so happy about it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I like the core span and rose span for each cell that you can move it around. It&#8217;s really interesting. You can get some nice layouts that are called bento layouts, like the bento boxes from Japanese cuisines. You can build your own website as a bento box. That&#8217;s really cool. Or if you so prefer, you can actually build a Pied Mondrian design with just squares and rectangles, which I like.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, grid changes the layout options so much. I love it. It&#8217;s incredible. It&#8217;s crazy that we didn&#8217;t have it for such a long time and we had to just stack everything below each other in a long, one column thing. It&#8217;s so much more creative and I think it gives just a lot of flexibility to layout building for users. So it&#8217;s really exciting to have that as a block.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Definitely. It was in WordPress core since 6.2 for CSS or for theme builders, for developers, but there wasn&#8217;t any interface for that. And I&#8217;m really happy that we now have an interface, but that is also where the complication comes in because some of the concepts are really hard for somebody who doesn&#8217;t have any knowledge about how grid layout is supposed to work, it&#8217;s really hard to convey the concepts with the interface.\n\n\n\nSo I&#8217;m glad they&#8217;re taking it slow, but I&#8217;m also glad that they&#8217;re taking it one step at a time and get people into how to use that. They&#8217;re quite great theme developers that show people what they can do with it and I mentioned before, Damon Cook&#8217;s article for the developer blog has some nice instructions on how to create a card layout with the grid block and with the stack block and combining all those great tools. It&#8217;s really interesting what can happen there. All right.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, it changes a lot. I also like that we work slowly on it because it&#8217;s really complex and like you said, could confuse users because it&#8217;s quite hard to understand.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Documentation</h3>\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So there were quite a few updates to the documentation and I almost like to call them out because one of the big hurdles for developers getting into block development and block themes is the leaky documentation that not everything is documented well enough.\n\n\n\nAnd so the contributors updated the documentation for the interactivity API on how to install and import the interactivity API to a block. And then also the alpine versus preact extra explanations. Those are libraries on which the interactivity API is based on.\n\n\n\nSo having some of that explanation in the documentation probably dissolved some of the mystery as well. And then the GetContext function received an update on the usage examples in conjunction with the namespace argument. And then there were a few other updates as well. All right. What else is in there? Was that it? That was it for the Gutenberg.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I think that was it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Gutenberg 18.9 of course there were, I think we talked about maybe 45 of the 245 PRs that landed in there. Definitely consult the Changelog from the release post that that came out. And I will share in the show notes when this podcast is published.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in Active Development and Discusssed&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\nSo we come to the section what&#8217;s in active development or discussed, and I wanted to point out all the plugin developers around you or around me here amongst the listeners to a PR that&#8217;s 61577 on the Gutenberg report that is the first iteration on a plugin template registration API for plugins. It has been really hard for plugins to, say you offer a custom post type for books or recipes or something like that, how can add a template for the block that goes into the site editor.\n\n\n\nThat was a big hurdle there. With a new PR, there will be new functions and new class. So there will be a WP_register_template function and there will be a WP_block_templates registry class. And they&#8217;re all based on register block type, but they actually go into the template.\n\n\n\nAnd when you follow the PR, you also see some code examples that you can use first for testing and also for learning about this API and how it&#8217;s going to work. Right now it&#8217;s not yet merged, but it&#8217;s getting ready to be merged and I hope it&#8217;s going to be in 19.0, latest 19.1. But if you want to test it yourself, you need to get through some hoops there. You would need to fork Gutenberg, then check out the branch for the PR run NPM install. So we get all the NPM updates right there.\n\n\n\nAnd then you can follow those testing instructions if you add the plug in to a local or a local WP site install. So you can link that. But yeah, it&#8217;s definitely for developers, your content creators and no code site builders, need to shut your ears a bit. It&#8217;s going to be a little technical there, but I just wanted to point that out because it would be really helpful to have early tests in there.\n\n\n\nYou can also wait until it&#8217;s merged and then grab either the release or grab the Gutenberg Nightly to test it and use those examples that are in the PR for your testing. I&#8217;m sure there will be an announcement for call for testing in the outreach channel and probably on the make blog as well.\n\n\n\nBut this is the first time you hear about it. And then I&#8217;m wondering when the next time of the Gutenberg Changelog will be. And Ellen, you&#8217;re probably happy to know that the developer who contributes to Core is actually coming from WooCommerce who had some trouble implementing block templates for a plugin or major plugin.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WooCommerce</h3>\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah, that&#8217;s really cool to see now that I see a lot of the behind the scenes things happening that&#8217;s really an effort to contribute work across all these multiple instances at Automatic. I really love to see that and I think there&#8217;s an effort to do more of it.\n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s really exciting to see that WooCommerce could contribute something to Core and I would also hope that with the block themes that we&#8230; Or the adoption of block themes to push that I will be able to do that to contribute to core with things we feel needed as in WooCommerce. I think there&#8217;s a lot to do there, which is exciting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, you plan, you are the trailblazer there for adoption of block themes on the extension sites. So that&#8217;s really cool.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Yeah. Interesting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, we&#8217;re coming to the end of our show. This was a little shorter than usual. Don&#8217;t fear. We&#8217;ll come back end of August.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: With more.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: With more and covering two plugin releases, 19.0, 19.1. We will record a show in the last week of August because I will go on vacation and it&#8217;s a two-week vacation. And then with this week and the next week, jumbling, it&#8217;s going to be a four-week hiatus for the podcast as well as for the weekend edition.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Well-deserved rest.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Absolutely.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: It&#8217;s quite active. It sounds like an active holiday, so maybe not rest, but just a change of scenery is always good to have.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, it&#8217;s a change of scenery, but we don&#8217;t have a whole lot of daily activities. We are going to British Columbia and it&#8217;s all about landscape, it&#8217;s about water, it&#8217;s about boating, and it&#8217;s about just sitting there.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Outdoors.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, outdoors and do some hikes. Yeah.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Beautiful.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Indeed. So Ellen, thank you so much for joining us again here.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Thank you for having me.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, if people want to connect with you.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I remember the last one I did was also a two version of it. I was like, oh my goodness, this is a lot. So I hope I did a little better this time. I hope you want to have me back at some point.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: You can&#8217;t do badly. I know you Ellen, you&#8217;re one of the well-prepared co-hosts here on the show, so don&#8217;t you worry about you.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: We&#8217;ll see if you invite me back at some point.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I can put it on a calendar, but I don&#8217;t want to scare you.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: No, I&#8217;d love to, actually. It&#8217;s really helpful for me to stay up to date with things. I love that. Really good for me too.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: All right, so if people want to connect with you and in your new role, where would they reach you? Are you on the WooCommerce Slack or?\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: I&#8217;m on the WooCommerce community Slack. I am on the WordPress Slack and on Twitter, quite active. Instagram, YouTube, you can find me anywhere if you Google Ellen Bauer. So yeah, I&#8217;m around and I love to connect. I think one of the things I really feel is important and that I can contribute to help WooCommerce too, is that I really want to be available to everyone building block themes for e-commerce.\n\n\n\nAnd really one of the third things is that I want to collect the feedback and the pain points. And I know because I&#8217;ve built a WooCommerce block theme myself that there are a lot of pain points still. There&#8217;s a lot of improvements have made and it&#8217;s just very complicated work. So we have to be patient and we have to just speak up and engage and just work together on it.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s a really big, big topic to make this work. So I&#8217;m around. And one of the things I&#8217;m also planning, I haven&#8217;t announced it yet, but I will within the next one or two weeks, is that I also plan, because I am so inspired by Anne&#8217;s work doing the hallway hangouts and was so good for me to have this little community to voice the issues just in a casual way.\n\n\n\nSo I want to create a little community hangout, Zoom hangout around WooBlock themes. So I think that will be good to get out there and then people can join in and I will have different topics and just have it very casually. So I will announce that very soon just everywhere I can so people can get aware of it. So here I am saying it to you.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: You heard it here first, dear listeners.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Actually, it&#8217;s the first time because I&#8217;m still getting on board and there&#8217;s lots to do. But I think that is important to get established early, like a monthly little hangout to be available because that&#8217;s one of the main goals I have is just to be available for people who try to build with WooCommerce and just really, really important to hear everyone out and just be available.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That&#8217;s terrific.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: So just ping me with any questions you have.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that&#8217;s terrific. I&#8217;m glad that you&#8217;re picking up on that. There&#8217;s also a roadmap rollout post from Beau Levens, I think, where WooCommerce is going.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: That&#8217;s very exciting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And I will also share the link to the WooCommerce community Slack in the show notes. And well, if you&#8217;re announcing this out and the next weekend edition comes out, it&#8217;s going to be in there. But that will come out at the end of August as well.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: And I think the WooCommerce developer blog really is way more exciting now. They do great work there too.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Yeah. The developer relations, Stephanie Pai. Natalie, I think is her name.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Jacqueline.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, Jacqueline. Yeah. Why do I think Natalie? There must be somebody&#8230; Jacqueline, yeah. They really connected with the community through&#8230; I saw it at WordCamp Europe when they connected with the community and talked with a few plugin developers and also in WordCamp, Asia. All right, before we end…\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Wrap it up.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Wrap it up.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Not yet. I want to get you on vacation.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: As always, the show notes will be published on GutenbergTimes.com/podcast and this is number 105. And if you have questions or suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com\">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>, that&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com\">Changelog@GutenbergTimes.com</a>, or just ping me on the WP Slack or on Twitter DM me wherever you find me. That&#8217;s it. Thanks for listening. Goodbye from me and thanks again to Ellen Bauer, and you have a wonderful summer everybody.\n\n\n\nEllen Bauer: Thank you. Bye. Thanks for listening, everyone.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Bye.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 04 Aug 2024 06:28:37 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:9;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:138:\"Gutenberg Times: Learn WordPress redesign, WooCommerce: the future is block-based, starter themes and a lot more — Weekend Edition 301\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29455\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:140:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/learn-wordpress-redesign-woocommerce-the-future-is-block-based-starter-themes-and-a-lot-more-weekend-edition-301/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:29782:\"Hi there, \n\n\n\nSummer! We are now for the second year in Europe, and we are starting to appreciate the four seasons again. Florida only has two seasons, dry and wet. We are also getting ready for our Summer vacation. For most of the time we will be unplugged from the Internet and the computers. \n\n\n\nThe Weekend Edition resumes at the end of August! This edition should provide you with plenty of updates to until then. And for developers, be on the look-out for the monthly round up post on the WordPress Developer Blog: What&#8217;s new for Developers (August 2024) to come out August 10, 2024. \n\n\n\nBe well, maybe you can take a vacation, too. \n\n\n\nYours, 💕 Birgit\n\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\nTable of Contents\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-301/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-301/#upcoming-events\">Upcoming events</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-301/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-301/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/weekend-edition-301/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\nReminder: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/09/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-2/\">Hallway Hangout: Let’s chat about what’s next in Gutenberg (August 2024)</a> on August 15, 2024, at 15:00 UTC. Anne McCarthy wrote: “This hallway hangout seeks to be another snapshot of what’s being worked on in the Gutenberg plugin to provide broader awareness to more WordPress contributors and get feedback. The hope is to come together early to talk about different features, flush out concerns sooner, help more folks get involved, and find ways to work better together. “\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nAt the WordPress Meetup in London, JuanMa Garrido gave a lightning talk <a href=\"https://www.wpldn.uk/2024/08/exploring-wordpress-6-6-key-developer-features-unveiled-by-juanma-garrido/\">Exploring WordPress 6.6: Key Developer Features Unveiled</a> and covered style variations, color, and typography presets, block pattern overrides, updated Theme.json, and unified SlotFill components. Dan Maby summarized it and wrote: &#8220;JuanMa’s session covers essential updates that make design implementation easier and more flexible. Let’s explore these exciting new features!&#8221;\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nRich Tabor also published a <a href=\"https://rich.blog/wordpress-6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 </a> post with short videos about each major features. It is so much easier to grasp the nature and the usefulness of an update or a new feature when you can see it in action. \n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Learn.WordPress redesign now live! </h3>\n\n\n\nAnd if you find yourself wondering what you do without a weekend edition for the three weeks, go, and browse the <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org\">freshly released Learn.WordPress website</a>. It has some great courses for end users, on block development and theme building. The latest course is the <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-theme-developer/\">Intermediate Theme Developer</a> course, with 32 lessons.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn her blog post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/08/02/meet-the-new-learn-wordpress/\">Meet the new Learn WordPress</a>, Kathrin Presner shared the details of the why and how of the efforts to get this redesign over the finish line. It&#8217;s also a great historical record of the before and after state of the site&#8217;s designs. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn the the WordPress News article <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/08/a-brand-new-way-to-learn-wordpress/\">A Brand-New Way to Learn WordPress</a>, Lauren Stein included a short video and put the renewed training site into the overall context of the ongoing efforts for a finished redesign of the WordPress.org website. You&#8217;ll find links to all learning pathways courses, and the announcements of Walking Tours on August 6th at 14:00 UTC and August 8th, 2024 at 21:00 UTC with the educators Wes Theron and Jonathan Bossenger.\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"441\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/learn-homepage-1536x1038-1.png?resize=652%2C441&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29588\" />\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nWes Theron, interactive designer at Automattic, published his tutorial <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/tutorial/exploring-wordpress-6-6/\">Exploring WordPress 6.6</a>, walking the viewers to a &#8220;range of new features and enhancements designed to improve your website management experience. Discover the latest updates and see how they can benefit your site.&#8221;\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJonathan Bossenger, developer educator on the WordPress training team, published a <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/07/30/call-for-contributors-intermediate-plugin-developer-learning-pathway/\">Call for contributors: Intermediate Plugin Developer learning pathway</a>. Can you help with scriptwriting, voice recording, video editing, content creation and reviewing? There is lots to be done, and you can have a major impact on the project with your contribution. \n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.9</h3>\n\n\n\nHector Prieto released Gutenberg 18.9 and highlighted in the release post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-9-31-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.9? (31 July)</a>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/#data-views-get-more-flexible\">Data Views get more flexible</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/#consolidating-design-tools-across-blocks\">Consolidating design tools across blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/#improved-usability-in-editing-and-applying-font-size-presets\">Improved usability in editing and applying font size presets</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/31/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-9-31-july/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"376\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image-3-1024x590-1.png?resize=652%2C376&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29572\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n🎙️ Latest episode: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/\">Gutenberg Changelog #104 – Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6</a> with special guest Carolina Nymark\n\n\n\nFor the latest Gutenberg Changelog episode (105), I caught up with my friend, Ellen Bauer, now WooCommerce, former Elma Studio. We had a great chat about block themes, Gutenberg 18.9 and block design tools . The episode will drop into your favorite podcast app over the weekend. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"206\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Screenshot-2024-08-01-at-14.43.15.png?resize=652%2C206&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29575\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nApropos Podcast: The photo of the week for me was Laura Adamonis <a href=\"https://x.com/LauraAdamonis/status/1816624770399506920\">tweet </a>&#8220;@gutenbergtimes with @bph and @inyongski and meal prep go together on a rainy day. Great show. Pulled pork, yogurt, and carrots. &#8221; Huge thank you to Laura Adamonis for sharing her enthusiasm.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/LauraAdamonis/status/1816624770399506920\"><img width=\"447\" height=\"335\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/LauraAdamonis-podcast-edited-1.jpg?resize=447%2C335&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29582\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"upcoming-events\">Upcoming Developer Hours</h3>\n\n\n\nAugust 13 at 15:00 UTC <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302520686/\">Developer Hours: Hello, Blocks! – An Introduction to Block Development</a> with JuanMa Garrido and Ryan Welcher\n\n\n\nAugust 27 at 15:00 UTC <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302512124/\">Developer Hours: Building WordPress themes with the Create Block Theme plugin</a> with Tammie Lister and yours truly\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302512124/\"><img width=\"600\" height=\"338\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/600_522612993.webp?resize=600%2C338&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29523\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\nThis week, I rediscovered the plugin <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/enhanced-embed-block/\">Enhanced Embed Block for YouTube</a> developed by Mark Root-Wiley and Cory Birdsong. It lets you add more limits to the embed block, for instance <code>rel=0</code> to just allow only videos from your channel in the suggestions. Another feature is that it can be set to load videos from nocookie.YouTube.com for enhanced privacy. They also emphasized that there is no plugin lock-in. Should you remove the plugin, it uses the core/embed block as a fallback.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nWith his post, <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/wordpress-full-site-editing/\">Mastering WordPress full site editing: a step-by-step tutorial</a>, Jeremy Holcombe walks you through the various aspects of the site editor and aims to show you how FSE works and let you develop your own site designs, just like the pros. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nThis week, Jamie Marsland <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/0-aHhfbk8Ac\">unlocked the power of Ollie Pro with Mike McAlister</a> on his Livestream on YouTube. In this interactive session, you &#8220;discover why I love the Ollie Theme and learn all about Ollie Pro&#8221; Marsland wrote. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nAs part of the new learning pathways, Cynthia Norman, WordPress theme developer from Ontario and member of the WordPress training team, published the video: <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/07/26/converting-a-classic-theme-to-a-block-theme/\">Converting a classic theme to a block&nbsp;theme</a> on WordPressTV. &#8220;With this lesson, you will: describe the various requirements of converting a classic theme, differentiate between a hybrid theme and a block theme and list the steps to take to convert a classic theme into a block theme.&#8221; She wrote. \n\n\n\nThe video is also part of the <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-theme-developer/\">Intermediate Theme Developer</a> course. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/mahdiali_\">Mahdi Ali Khanusiya</a>, Ilmosys, shared <a href=\"https://x.com/mahdiali_/status/1816064166630969570\">on X (former Twitter) </a>about the &#8220;refreshed design of the <a href=\"https://thepatternswp.com/\">PatternsWP</a> website! Built entirely with the WordPress block editor.&#8221; <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/patternswp/\">PatternWP </a> is a WordPress plugin with a huge library of patterns and full-page layouts. It helps designers and content creators to streamline their page building processes.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/anja\">Anja Merret</a> reported that MaxiBlocks introduced a free theme to work with the block editor or page builder. Together with the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/maxi-blocks/\">free block editor plugin</a> and the new free theme (in Beta), Maxi Blocks aims to offer an entire web design tool kit. It offers many patterns and icons to use on your site. Join the <a href=\"https://maxiblocks.com/free-maxiblocks-wordpress-theme/\">Beta team here</a> or wait for the theme to be available in the WordPress repository.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\nThis week, I teamed up with Vikas Singhal, InstaWP to hold a webinar: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/yc_cBtjDJxc\">WordPress Block Editor for Theme Developers and Designers</a>. The recording is available on YouTube. The shared list of resources is <a href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DJeHMlN4onIjNtf8C26SZz-NS1XcwJHuW_qkDjnXF88/edit#heading=h.ocbv6ztbssri\">available on Google Doc. </a>\n\n\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJustin Tadlock also posted on the Developer Blog: <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/22/mixing-and-matching-styles-colors-and-typography-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Mixing and matching styles, colors, and typography in WordPress 6.6</a> &#8211; and teaches us how to create custom color and typography-only global style variations in WordPress 6.6.\n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"338\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/tt4-color-and-type-variations-1536x796-1.webp?resize=652%2C338&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29562\" />\n\n\n\n&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp; A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a>\n\n\n\nBernhard Kau continued his series on building block theme for his website with <a href=\"https://kau-boys.com/3682/wordpress/goal-missed-i-had-to-add-some-css-to-the-theme\">Goal missed: I had to add some CSS to the theme</a>. Although determined to only use the Site editor to create his theme, the difficulties to designing the header for his site, made Kau reach into his rich CSS tool box. He continues explaining how he added CSS files to his themes. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Starter Themes</h2>\n\n\n\nBrian Gardner just uploaded <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/powder-zero/\">Powder Zero</a> to the WordPress repository. It&#8217;s a A starter block theme for designers and developers. It offers plain designs and patterns for all the important templates with header and footer template parts. It also offers code examples to create block styles via the functions.php. It&#8217;s give you a solid head start into block theme building. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nA few months back, Brian Coords and Aurooba Ahmad published a &#8220;Block Theme<a href=\"https://github.com/bacoords/block-theme\"> is a block-based starter theme built for modern WordPress developers.</a> Now it has reached 73 stars on GitHub. It corporates a build process, works with SASS, and also includes a few custom blocks. It also includes Linting, Prettier, and WordPress Coding Standards. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nAbout a year ago, Bill Erickson published <a href=\"https://www.billerickson.net/hybrid-wordpress-theme-starter/\">A starter theme for building Hybrid WordPress Themes</a>. &#8220;A hybrid WordPress theme uses theme.json to define styles and customize the block editor while also using traditional PHP template files.&#8221; he explained.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nWith Carolina Nymark&#8216;s <a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/block-theme-generator/\">Theme Builder Tool</a>, you can assemble a new starter theme yourself on four levels: \n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>&nbsp;No Code&nbsp;-For building your theme in the Site Editor.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&nbsp;Basic&nbsp;-More opinionated than&nbsp;Underscores (_s).</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&nbsp;Advanced&nbsp;with WooCommerce support and basic build tools.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&nbsp;Advanced&nbsp;with WooCommerce support and without build tools.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nWhen talking to site builders and developers, it turns out, many use the default theme <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/twentytwentyfour/\">Twenty-Twenty-Four</a> as a versatile starter theme to start new projects, either with a child theme or as a clone. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nAnd finally, the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/create-block-theme/\">Create block Theme plugin</a> allows you to create a child theme, or a clone of the current block theme active on your site. It also provides you with a skeleton block theme to start with a blank slate \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor</h2>\n\n\n\nBeau Lebens, Head of Engineering for WooCommerce published <a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/07/23/woocommerce-in-2024-and-beyond-roadmap-update/\">WooCommerce in 2024 and beyond: Roadmap update</a> and laid out the plan for the next few months for WooCommerce development and focus as well as an outlook beyond. Besides new and revamp initiatives around the Developer Experience for partners and extenders, like a newsletter, enhancing the REST-API, the message seems clear: &#8220;Our future is block-based &#8220;. He continues: &#8220;If your solutions are still relying on shortcodes or other legacy APIs, it’s time to embrace blocks and modernize your approach.&#8221;\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/07/23/woocommerce-in-2024-and-beyond-roadmap-update/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"366\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/image_801c33.webp?resize=652%2C366&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29608\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n In <a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/07/26/woocommerce-9-2-pre-release-updates/\">WooCommerce 9.2: Pre-release updates</a>, <a href=\"https://x.com/jacklynbiggin\">Jacklyn Biggin</a>, developer advocate at WooCommerce gave a preview of the upcoming release. Among other updates, it will bring a &#8220;Customize your Store&#8221; feature, enhances filtering for store searches and accessibility improvements. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nDamon Cook published on the Developer Blog: <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/30/building-a-card-layout-with-a-hover-reveal-effect/\">Building a card layout with a “hover reveal” effect</a>. It’s a short tutorial on how to add block style to a core block and add CSS for animation. It’s even interesting for content creators as they learn how to create a Grid Block with card style cover block.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nUsing Generate Blocks Pro, the Create Block Theme plugin and a child theme of Twenty-Twenty-Four, <a href=\"https://x.com/neverything\">Silvan Hagen</a>, a developer from Switzerland, shared how to build a <a href=\"https://silvanhagen.com/writing/wordpress-mega-menu-blocks/\">WordPress Mega Menu with Blocks</a> recreating a project for the Kofi Annan Foundation. \n\n\n\nYou can read-up on another approach to building Mega Menus on the WordPress Developer blog, where Nick Diego posted <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/02/29/an-introduction-to-block-based-mega-menus/\">An introduction to block-based mega menus</a>, applying the newly released WordPress APIs from version 6.5 \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn this week&#8217;s Livestream, Ryan Welcher was seen <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/LXWxfSQ-ygA\">building a Schema.org block integration</a> in context of a Job board site. In this longer than usual stream he covers a myriad of block development topics including debugging via the consol e.log and exploring functions, attributes and InnerBlocks. \n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\"><div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n</div></div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJuanMa Garrido and Nick Diego explored in the latest <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6-yg-GKTZg\">Developer Hours alternatives to creating a custom block</a>. They walk through several scenarios often addressed with custom blocks and discussed alternative approaches, especially those that leverage block patterns and Editor extensions.\n\n\n\nKey highlights included: &#8211;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li> How to add new functionality to core blocks </li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to use content-only editing and the allowedBlocks attribute in patterns </li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to integrate block bindings and block variations </li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to effectively use block locking and naming &#8211; How to create overrides in synced patterns</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nThey shared <a href=\"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1myYoEehSPS6rhFMzpEq4h_v3z5Z4TTA_C1rJDG0Mk0U/edit#heading=h.jnrvxfmnum5f\">their notes and resources in this Google Doc</a>\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/rudrastyh\"></a>\n\n\n\nThe Interactivity API seems interesting to you, but you&#8217;re not sure that you have time to figure everything out? In his blog post, <a href=\"https://rudrastyh.com/gutenberg/interactivity-api.html\">Interactivity API Explained</a>, <a href=\"https://x.com/rudrastyh\">Misha Rudrastyh</a> provides step-by-step instructions and explains the various pieces on the way. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nAntonio Sejas, Developer at WordPress.com share how their team <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2024/07/31/wordpress-components-tailwind-css/\">uses WordPress Components and Tailwind CSS in their Local Development App</a>. It&#8217;s the first post in the new Building Studio in Public series. In this article, &#8220;we explore how we decided to use Tailwind CSS and the WordPress components that make up Studio and why that decision gave us extra flexibility for the future of Studio.&#8221; Sejas wrote\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nNick Diego posted <a href=\"https://nickdiego.com/useful-resources-for-curating-the-wordpress-editing-experience/\">Useful resources for curating the WordPress editing experience</a> after fielding a few questions from developers at WordCamp Canada. You&#8217;ll find links to repos with code examples, to documentation pages, and articles published on the WordPress Developer blog. He covers server-side, client site and theme.json methods and approaches. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a> Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. \n\n\n\nNow also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience\n\n\n\n<img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" />\n\n\n\nQuestions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\nFor questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nFeatured Image: Screenshot of the newly designed Learn.WordPress.org site. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nDon&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? \n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"> Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button>We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 03 Aug 2024 10:30:31 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:10;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"WordCamp Central: WordCamp Netherlands 2024 rescheduled\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=7325880\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2024/08/wordcamp-netherlands-2024-rescheduled/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1351:\"WordCamp Netherlands 2024 has been rescheduled from its initial dates of September 27 and 28, 2024, to the new dates of November 29 and 30, 2024.\n\n\n\nIn early February, a new organizing team began preparations for WordCamp Netherlands 2024. Despite some setbacks, the team has continued with enthusiasm and optimism. Most of the delays have been overcome, and nearly everything is in place to make this edition a success. However, one crucial aspect beyond our control has become a major obstacle: attendee registration.\n\n\n\nAdditional time is needed to allow more people the opportunity to register for the event. After consulting with WordCamp Central, it was decided to move this edition to November 29 and 30, 2024. This extra time will ensure an even better and more inspiring event in November.\n\n\n\nAttendees who have already purchased tickets can request a refund. <a href=\"https://netherlands.wordcamp.org/2024/wordcamp-netherlands-rescheduled/\">For assistance, please contact the organizing team. </a>Refunds are available until September 30.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://netherlands.wordcamp.org/2024/tickets/\">Tickets for the new dates in November are now available for purchase.</a>\n\n\n\nWe look forward to welcoming all attendees in November.\n\n\n\nThe WordCamp Netherlands 2024 Organizing Team\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 02 Aug 2024 14:41:01 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Richard van Denderen\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:11;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"WordPress.org blog: A Brand-New Way to Learn WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17545\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/08/a-brand-new-way-to-learn-wordpress/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11014:\"<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a> has been growing as a hub of educational resources for WordPress since 2020. Now, it’s undergone a transformation in content focus and design with the introduction of Learning Pathways and a reimagined look.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The WordPress.org redesign continues </h3>\n\n\n\nLearn WordPress is the latest section of WordPress.org to receive a design refresh, following other sections like the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/showcase/\">Showcase</a> and <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/\">Developer Resources</a>. It brings a unified look and feel that’s modern, visual, and inviting.\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"919\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/2-learn-1.png?resize=1024%2C919&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17613\" />\n\n\n\nBeyond its fresh aesthetic, the new Learn WordPress site prioritizes learners with a revamped user experience consistent with familiar modern learning platforms. It features a new navigation menu, eye-catching thumbnails, and search filters so you can explore and discover content quickly. The clearer and more structured layout helps you easily recognize the resources you need (courses, lessons, Online Workshops) based on your learning preferences. &nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Introducing Learning Pathways</h3>\n\n\n\nThis redesign also highlights a new approach to Learn WordPress content, emphasizing what learners engage with the most. The introduction of Learning Pathways lets you grow your WordPress skills progressively. You can start with beginner essentials and then work your way through more advanced concepts at your own speed. This method lets you build a solid understanding as you move through each course. Learning Pathways are geared toward specific learners, like people using WordPress for the first time or those interested in development.\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"730\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/1-learn.png?resize=1024%2C730&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17591\" />\n\n\n\nFour Learning Pathways are already launched and ready to explore:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\">Beginner WordPress User</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-wordpress-user/\">Intermediate WordPress User</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer&nbsp;</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-theme-developer/\">Intermediate Theme Developer</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nYou can look forward to more Learning Pathways in the User and Developer tracks soon. Two additional pathways, Designer and Contributor, are also on the roadmap. For more details about Learning Pathways, listen to <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-83-learning-pathways/\">episode 83 of the WordPress Briefing</a>. \n\n\n\nGet a guided tour of all the exciting Learn WordPress changes from the Training team’s very own <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psykro/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/west7/\">Wes Theron</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoonini/\">Kathryn Presner</a>. Sign up for one of their upcoming Online Workshops on <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302434418/\">Tuesday, August 6 at 14:00 UTC </a>or <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/302387426/\">Thursday, August 8 at 21:00 UTC</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Education for the future of WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\nWhat started with the Training team’s effort to understand the needs and expectations of current and future learners became a push to create a dynamic learning experience. This next phase of Learn WordPress is an exciting move toward bringing more people into WordPress, whether new users just getting started or established developers looking to add more skills to their toolbox.\n\n\n\nIf you want to propose a change or report an issue, please do so in the <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/Learn\">Learn GitHub repository</a>. If you love WordPress and want to contribute to making Learn WordPress an even greater resource, join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RW657Q\">#training</a> Slack channel. Want to make an immediate impact? Share <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a> with someone you know.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you (and props) to all involved</h3>\n\n\n\nThe new Learn WordPress couldn’t have been possible without the effective collaboration of the Training, Design, Marketing, and Meta teams. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamwood/\" class=\"mention\">@adamwood</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/agiljulio/\" class=\"mention\">@agiljulio</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arunshenoy99/\" class=\"mention\">@arunshenoy99</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bsanevans/\" class=\"mention\">@bsanevans</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/burtrw/\" class=\"mention\">@burtrw</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cnormandigital/\" class=\"mention\">@cnormandigital</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devmuhib/\" class=\"mention\">@devmuhib</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/digitalchild/\" class=\"mention\">@digitalchild</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dufresnesteven/\" class=\"mention\">@dufresnesteven</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ervanyuffrizal/\" class=\"mention\">@ervanyuffrizal</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisalahammad/\" class=\"mention\">@faisalahammad</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fcoveram/\" class=\"mention\">@fcoveram</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellosatya/\" class=\"mention\">@hellosatya</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huzaifaalmesbah/\" class=\"mention\">@huzaifaalmesbah</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/indirabiswas27/\" class=\"mention\">@indirabiswas27</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironnysh/\" class=\"mention\">@ironnysh</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itsmhrahman/\" class=\"mention\">@itsmhrahman</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jinalparekh/\" class=\"mention\">@jinalparekh</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\" class=\"mention\">@joedolson</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen/\" class=\"mention\">@joen</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jominney/\" class=\"mention\">@jominney</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/keithnoseworthy/\" class=\"mention\">@keithnoseworthy</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kel-dc/\" class=\"mention\">@kel-dc</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lada7042/\" class=\"mention\">@lada7042</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurahartwigdesign/\" class=\"mention\">@laurahartwigdesign</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\" class=\"mention\">@laurlittle</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markoserb/\" class=\"mention\">@markoserb</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mustakim5/\" class=\"mention\">@mustakim5</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nazmul111/\" class=\"mention\">@nazmul111</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego/\" class=\"mention\">@ndiego</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nilovelez/\" class=\"mention\">@nilovelez</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noruzzaman/\" class=\"mention\">@noruzzaman</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/orangeambition/\" class=\"mention\">@orangeambition</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/piyopiyofox/\" class=\"mention\">@piyopiyofox</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psykro/\" class=\"mention\">@psykro</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/renyot/\" class=\"mention\">@renyot</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rfluethi/\" class=\"mention\">@rfluethi</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rjfrizz/\" class=\"mention\">@rjfrizz</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rmartinezduque/\" class=\"mention\">@rmartinezduque</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle/\" class=\"mention\">@ryelle</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sakibsnaz/\" class=\"mention\">@sakibsnaz</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sfougnier/\" class=\"mention\">@sfougnier</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shsajalchowdhury/\" class=\"mention\">@shsajalchowdhury</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sierratr/\" class=\"mention\">@sierratr</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sumitsingh/\" class=\"mention\">@sumitsingh</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/teuila_mau/\" class=\"mention\">@teuila_mau</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webtechpooja/\" class=\"mention\">@webtechpooja</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/west7/\" class=\"mention\">@west7</a> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoonini/\" class=\"mention\">@zoonini</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 02 Aug 2024 13:33:19 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Lauren Stein\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:12;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:110:\"Do The Woo Community: Open Source Sustainability, Contributing and Proposal Processes with Courtney and Robert\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84957\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://dothewoo.io/os-sustainability-contributing-and-proposal-processes/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35658:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nCourtney: How are you, Robert? How&#8217;s your summer going?\n\n\n\nRobert: It&#8217;s still summer? I don&#8217;t know. It&#8217;s been so hot. We were just talking about that in the green room, how the temperature&#8217;s been nuts.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes, yes, yes. Robert and I, being in America, our weather has been very weird. I&#8217;ve been having a lot of Florida weather here in South Central Pennsylvania, which I would like to send back to Florida and now that would be delightful. But the weather in Europe was pretty cool at WordCamp Europe. I liked that temperature better.\n\n\n\nRobert: Everything is cool when you&#8217;re in Torino.\n\n\n\nCourtney: This is true. So today we&#8217;re going to get into a little bit of some of the talks that we saw at WordCamp Europe, some of the other open-source connections that were made during this event, and a little bit of pulse on the community as to what we&#8217;ve seen going on in open source. Most recently we&#8217;re just on the heels at the time of this recording of seeing WordPress 6.6.1 ship, which is great. But that said, Robert, how did you spend your WordCamp Europe and what stood out most to you?\n\n\n\nRobert: Wow, attendance. I mean, I&#8217;m just going to go with that. So WordCamp Europe was talk, talk, talk, work, work, work, network, network, network. We had a booth there for Botguard and had to do some of that. But yeah, it always amazes me how full of people WordCamp Europe is and it was really great to see some of, even I&#8217;ll call &#8217;em micro-communities, get together. I know there was a large contingent from Serbia that was doing their thing, and then you&#8217;d have folks from the Netherlands and Germany and getting that face time that they may not get during the rest of the year. So it&#8217;s always the people and the networking and energy that leaves me smiling for at least six months. Hoarse completely, but definitely smiling.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I saw that there was also a sub-community of the Jonathans getting photos together. Were there any photos of the Roberts? Because I think you and Mr. Dunn here could both be in that photo.\n\n\n\nRobert: And Robert Windisch.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yeah, see, I was just hanging out with him in Canada the other week. That&#8217;s right. Yeah, the Roberts need to do a photo. I&#8217;m going to petition for that.\n\n\n\nRobert: And we will also include Robbie Adair.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes, yes, absolutely. Include all those that have Rob, Bob or some variation of that related to their names for sure. So WordCamp Europe kicked off with a really amazing talk. We heard first as our opening keynote at WordCamp Europe about the sustainability of open source being the future, and this was something that was shared by both Joost and Juliet who gave a presentation on this. Joost, of course, being the founder of a very well-known SEO plugin company, and Juliet is really well-known in the PHP space, but not a lot of people in WordPress outside of those that pay attention to PHP know Juliet yet. Juliet is an amazing, amazing woman, very talented dev, and somebody that I got to know during Europe quite a lot. And so during that time that she and Joost gave that presentation, they were sharing a great deal about how much of what we use or do on a daily basis depends on open source and how people are often unaware of that implication.\n\n\n\nAnd that&#8217;s something that&#8217;s been eye-opening to me, not just from their talk, but also over the last couple of years as I tune into the automotive industry using a lot of open-source technology. Of course, I work for a web host and I know that our servers use a lot of open-source technology to power the hosting environments as well, but there&#8217;s a lot more to open source to learn about that I think we don&#8217;t often see. So they were sharing some of the use cases of that, but they were also really great at helping shed light on. Open source is never free, so you&#8217;ve got either funding to pay people or the time that people give up for their families and their jobs and these other things to make open source possible. So I thought that they really landed that conversation fantastically well, and it&#8217;s something that I believe that the WordPress community especially needs to tune in on. You haven&#8217;t gotten a chance yet, go watch the replay on that one.\n\n\n\nRobert: Yeah, I think hopefully Bob can drop that into the transcript of the actual link. Yeah, free and open source are always fun words to mess up. And yes, the code may be freely accessible, but how do you put it together? Who&#8217;s put that together? Coming from the Joomla community, which is a hundred percent volunteer where there is no corporate support in any way, shape or form, the burnout is extreme because you just can&#8217;t do that all the time.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yeah, knowing what I do of Juliet, I feel fine in sharing this. Just a few months back, about half a year, maybe a little bit longer ago now, we saw PHPCS, which is the PHP coding standards. Juliet is unarguably the lead dev on this. There are several other contributors to this. That project sat in an abandoned repo and abandoned being that there was a company that created this as an open-source project. The company shuttered and Juliet did not have administrative rights over that area and nobody that did was still contributing. Juliet has been funded through contract work as have others to that area, but it was not at a sustainable level for the amount of contribution needed for that. And I highlight it because WordPress uses WPCS, the WordPress coding standards, and those areas in particular also need to depend upon the PHPCS. So it&#8217;s just a set of rules basically that make sure that how we&#8217;re writing not just our PHP, but I believe it also applies to HTML and CSS, that these things adhere to specific standards so that we have some security reliability in all of the code that we&#8217;re deploying.\n\n\n\nIf any one of those areas were to fail, that could jeopardize not just WordPress, but also at PHPCS, it would impact many other open-source projects and some that are not, that depend upon PHPCS. And then within WordPress, not only does it impact core, but WPCS that depends on PHPCS also impacts many plugins. Hosts use it as part of securing their environments for managed environments for customers. So there was a lot really dependent on that, and Juliet&#8217;s just been through quite a lot in the past year securing the funding needed, not just for herself, but also the couple of other devs that are working on this. And it&#8217;s one of those backbones of the internet, so I can&#8217;t say enough about the work that she&#8217;s doing. And also, Joost wrote a fantastic piece that helped get at least my executives to participate in funding the work inside of PHPCS as well to make sure that our customers are really well protected. So please do tune in, watch, see what&#8217;s going on. Even if you don&#8217;t really understand code, not the point, it&#8217;s knowing that it&#8217;s securing you here.\n\n\n\nRobert: Well, it&#8217;s to your point about validating the stuff that WordPress utilizes from plugins to things to Gutenberg to all that. Of course, my favorite is having the tabs versus spaces argument, so that&#8217;s something else as well. But for those who are not technical, just think of tabs versus spaces.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I just got into the conversation at WordCamp Canada about pineapple and pizza. Now you&#8217;re bringing up tabs versus spaces. We&#8217;re going to start a riot with the devs. They&#8217;re all groaning at us right now, Robert. I can hear them. So in addition to that, there were a couple of other really cool things that took place during WordCamp Europe. One of the first things was that right after Joost and Juliet&#8217;s presentation during the Q&amp;A, I asked a question, and then out of that came meeting Matthias from Typo3. Typo3 is one of the organizations that participated in the open source letter to the WordPress European Union related to the Cyber Resiliency Act. What does all that mean? Basically, the European Union has a lot of standards that they&#8217;re trying to implement, and the Cyber Resiliency Act specifies a lot of what they expect out of the software being used in various environments, and some of the wording that is in the Cyber Resiliency Act was not suitable for how open source works. And so out of that came, that&#8217;s exactly it. Joomla, Drupal, Typo3, WordPress and a few others that I think all compiled a letter together to the European Union specifying some of these things and Matthias that we met is part of the community at Typo3. Robert, did you get a chance to meet Matthias?\n\n\n\nRobert: We got, of course, everyone got to meet everyone at some point, but we&#8217;re definitely going to push to have, is it Matthias or Mattias? I&#8217;m not always going to look Matthias.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I&#8217;m an American and I butcher European names routinely. I will apologize first, but yes, we should invite him on as a guest and ask him to pronounce his own name for us.\n\n\n\nRobert: At least that, I mean, it&#8217;ll be a very quick podcast.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yep, absolutely.\n\n\n\nRobert: That&#8217;ll be brilliant. But yeah, I mean not only, it&#8217;s great that he was part of that open letter, but it&#8217;s interesting how, since we&#8217;re on the open talk on open source, how open source gets attacked in different weird ways and the Cyber Resilience Act, which is called CRA before we get all tongue-tied, it just seems strange to make demands of free code and why, yes, there need to be cybersecurity standards, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, last I checked, we can talk about CrowdStrike all day long and they&#8217;re probably CRA compliant, and that doesn&#8217;t really help anyone when Delta is\n\n\n\nstill down for day five or six of being able to fly. The NHS, I think, had problems. European banks had problems. So some of these rules and regulations really don&#8217;t actually get to the crux of the problem, which is everyone needs to do their homework and stay on top of code no matter what it is and have processes in place.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Absolutely, Robert, I am glad that neither of us were traveling during that in particular.\n\n\n\nRobert: Oh my goodness, are you kidding? I just got home from WordCamp Canada to which I drove. It was a long drive, but I drove because the distance would not have been any different time-wise if I had flown. But still, I am glad to have gotten through Border Crossing and all of that without having an impact there. Related though to your idea there on testing and kind of coming in on the heels of WordPress 6.6.1 coming out and the calls for testing, I will amplify that people should be testing things and to the point where I have been relentless with my employer about giving me a little sliver of an environment to test on production. So in our managed environments and our enterprise-managed environments, I am ensuring that this gets at least the minimum testing possible. But in addition to that, I would like to call in those that are in the plugin and theme space and make sure that you are testing with the beta releases before we even hit RC. We need to be testing at the beta releases.\n\n\n\nSo not just a good way to do this in the WordPress space as you go to make WordPress dot org slash test, and usually with every release there is a guideline post saying, here&#8217;s how you could go test the thing, do that, but in addition, do some other testing, both automated and manual with your own plugins and or themes. If you are a dev and or if you&#8217;re managing client sites, the ones that are the most on most of your client sites, I would make sure to also as a user, test those ahead because things will go a little sideways and you might see a maintenance release come in pretty quickly after that. If you are in other parts of open source, the same would still apply. You absolutely should be paying attention to what&#8217;s going on in releases ahead of time and testing and weighing that kind of feedback.\n\n\n\nRobert: I&#8217;ll just second that, and it all circles back to the sustainability argument or discussion earlier. These things need to be done. Yes.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I will give a quick nod. When I was assembling today&#8217;s show notes, I forgot to include that I was on a panel at Europe about open source, about funding open source from the perspective, this time last year, I spoke with Hari and I was on a panel there from the perspective of I&#8217;m a contributor that wants to get sponsored. What can I do this time? It was from the perspective of empowering organizations such as my employer or Robert&#8217;s employer or a number of others to fund the work of open source. So I will be sure to include those as well. That slipped my mind in today&#8217;s show notes, but there we go. Related to other events and things going on in the open-source space. Robert, you brought up All Things Open. Do you know much about this conference? Have you ever attended?\n\n\n\nRobert: I have never. And it keeps getting put into time slots where I can&#8217;t make it. It&#8217;s really about open source and everything from GitHub and Copilot to specific projects. Of course, AI, I already mentioned Copilot. That kind of stuff is happening. Speakers have been announced, and I&#8217;m just looking at, so we got Community Leadership Summit and All Things Open on October 27th.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes, that is close to some timelines for my kiddos that I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;ll be able to go yet or not, but I know a few others in the WordPress community that have attended in the past. You can reach out if you&#8217;re interested to Adam Silver and Nyasha Greene and find out what their experiences have been at this event. But it is really operated like a true open source without an organization besides the conference organizers, this is not an event on behalf of any one open-source project. It is an open-source event of lots of open-source people just getting together, and it&#8217;s one that I think is really, really interesting. It is in, is it North or South Carolina in the Carolinas?\n\n\n\nRobert: It&#8217;s Raleigh, North Carolina.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Raleigh, North Carolina, yeah. There we go. So if you&#8217;re interested in attending that one, do jump in, check it out, get some tickets. I always love the graphics that organization puts forward. I think it&#8217;d be a good time to also learn and connect with others.\n\n\n\nRobert: I have been to the Community Leadership Summit in the past, and if you are heavily involved in a project, you should really have this on your radar. I remember having attended, and at the time it was all about codes of conduct and you had folks from all these projects trying to put together codes of conduct, codes of conduct or code of conducts, I dunno where the S goes.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Or the apostrophe.\n\n\n\nRobert: Or the, oh no, don&#8217;t make it worse. But these are the kinds of things that are addressed to help projects move forward. So definitely take a look at that if you are spending considerable time in any specific project, and that ties right into All Things Open.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that one. There are a couple of other things that have been popping on my radar just in the last week related to open source that are pretty interesting to check out. One of them started. So our show is not just about WordPress, but obviously we&#8217;re heavily steeped in the WordPress community and Do the Woo is related very much to all things WordPress related. I think they even have a show by that name. So a couple things that kind of popped up for me. I was watching a YouTube live with Matt Medeiros and Mark Szymanski, forgive me for not knowing how to pronounce your last name, but during this one, it&#8217;s great to see from Mark&#8217;s eyes sometimes because Mark is a young adult in his twenties, I believe, in the WordPress community and beginning to understand open source and contribution.\n\n\n\nAnd I think that when I think about myself at that point, I was finding WordPress 2.3 and Moodle. So I come from other open source, and at that I found the WordPress philosophies and I thought, oh, this is for me, the ones numbered zero through three, the four philosophies of open source, that area spoke deeply to me about code being free, everyone can modify and edit and all of this and has really captivated me. I don&#8217;t know if today with as much software as is available and as much user experience as people can have at their fingertips. At that time, CMSs were new and WordPress WordPress was just for blogging and not for the rest of your website certainly. And there were no pages or sidebars or any of those things. So back then open source had a lot of potential and it really captivated a lot of interest.\n\n\n\nThese days though, the 20 something crowd is not necessarily thinking first about open source. They&#8217;re just thinking of the tool to get the job done. Open source may or may not be on the radar, and if they even are aware of how WordPress gets made, they may not understand their own responsibility for providing feedback. There is a talk I gave at WordCamp Montclair a year and a half ago, and I redid it at Phoenix as a backup speaker this year called We Are They, and it&#8217;s on WordPress TV, but it&#8217;s about this idea that if you&#8217;re using WordPress and you complain into the ether about why did they do this or that, to go log the issue in the place and provide that feedback. And there have been a few YouTubers in the last couple of days even that we&#8217;re really looking into one shedding light on the need to do that, but also two, hey, we&#8217;re logging this stuff and it&#8217;s maybe getting overlooked. And so there was some confusion around this that I thought maybe we could tackle a little bit. Robert, has there been a time in any open-source project where you have directed others to go provide some feedback? And how did that experience go?\n\n\n\nRobert: Oh gosh, it&#8217;s brutally painful.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Why is that painful?\n\n\n\nRobert: It&#8217;s painful. People are not inspired. They don&#8217;t know. A lot of times the feedback loops aren&#8217;t there. So you might go in there the first time, drop a ticket, look at a repo and either be overwhelmed by whatever jargon exists, and then it just goes into the ether. Nine times out of 10, you&#8217;re waiting for someone to pick up that question, actually do something with that. To your point about Juliet, how many years was that sitting there? Again,\n\n\n\nCourtney: It was a long time and it came down to I&#8217;m quitting doing this, I need to go pick up client work. Or you&#8217;re giving me the keys and we got to move it and I need funded. And I get that.\n\n\n\nRobert: And so as folks get used to much more, I don&#8217;t want to say immediate gratification, but at least some kind of awareness of what&#8217;s going on. Open-source projects need to implement the expectation level of, oh, I hit a button at my bank and I got an immediate response either from a chatbot or a human being or whatever. We need to be able to do that. We need to keep up with the Joneses in that kind of user experience because submitting tickets is a user experience.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yeah, so in the presentation that I did, if your issue was related to Gutenberg, here&#8217;s the Gutenberg repo, you could leave a comment and not provide code, and that&#8217;s okay. So if you want to either open up a discussion or reply to something, here&#8217;s how to go find and see if anyone else brought the topic up and then how to go provide feedback or how to open a new ticket. If it is related to the functionality of WordPress dot org&#8217;s website, where to go log that, that&#8217;s another place. And so the experience Mark was sharing is that he seems interested, I&#8217;m just getting to know him a little bit. He seems interested in doing these things, but he doesn&#8217;t know where to go to do it. And there&#8217;s not really a clear map of some of those things, how to log the feedback in the right places.\n\n\n\nAnd then you have someone like Matt Medeiros who very understandably has been in our community in the WordPress space a long time. And in our project we have two dozen different teams, and then we have some working groups that aren&#8217;t attached to a team and we, oh, it&#8217;s a thing. And so how do you find where to go log this stuff or where are, for instance, proposals, that was something that Matt brought up and was sharing about searching through make WordPress dot org for proposals. I have provided a link for the show notes that&#8217;s basically just a customized Google search of show me anything on make dot WordPress dot org from all two dozen teams in the past. I dunno, I might&#8217;ve set it to a year that used the word proposal because there&#8217;s no other clear way to do that. But then over in Gutenberg, there are also proposals sitting inside of Gutenberg&#8217;s GitHub repo, and they don&#8217;t make it to a make website. And sometimes that&#8217;s the case for certain teams. Gutenberg is within core, but if you want to see the proposals about what the block editor is doing or the site editing experience is doing, you&#8217;re going to need to pay attention to it in the Gutenberg repo. And then what happens if you write a proposal? What&#8217;s the next step?\n\n\n\nRobert: Yes, that is a question.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I&#8217;m shaking my hands, which no one can see. We&#8217;re audio-only. But it&#8217;s just like that both hands in the air of frustration of, again, the user experience of trying to get stuff done.\n\n\n\nRobert: So Robert in Joomla, how did proposals get handled?\n\n\n\nCourtney: To some degree, it was a much smaller community and we didn&#8217;t have 4,000 teams like WordPress does. So it was much easier to actually get in front of team leads just right off the bat and be like, here&#8217;s my proposal, here&#8217;s my idea. Then team leads would take and run with that. So being able just to have that contact with the leader of what&#8217;s going on, then that would be actually put into more of the big development process or bug fixes or proposals and whatnot.\n\n\n\nCourtney: So to that point, in WordPress, we do not use the term lead outside of, we have core release leads. Matt, usually, is that on most of the release processes.\n\n\n\nRobert: Matt Mullenweg. There&#8217;s lots of Matts in the world.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes. And then we have some folks that historically have held this title and it&#8217;s now become more of an honorary title. Folks like if you&#8217;ve been in the WordPress space, Helen Hou-Sandí and others, Dion Hulse, this crew are some of the originals of the release lead cycle and process. Some of them are still with the project and some are no longer with the project, but proposals overall across all the teams, there is no uniformity to that in our case. Other open source projects, like for instance later in the show notes, I have one on PHP has a request for comments, which is a bit akin to a proposal. It&#8217;s saying, here&#8217;s the pitch, give some comments, and then they have a defined procedure after you give those comments if it needs to go to a vote, who does the voting, et cetera. And these are points that Mark was bringing up. Is there any standardized? What happens after someone writes a proposal? Well, sometimes it just sits there. Earlier today I had a meeting related to, there is a post in our show notes here about should the DEIB working group Five for the Future new contributor mentorship be all merged inside of the sustainability team? And it was brought up that Birgit Olzem had written a proposal for a DEIB team exclusively like a year ago. And right now it&#8217;s just waiting on Matt to respond to one way or the other. And for lack of a response, there&#8217;s a lack of activity happening. And that experience for the community is not ideal. There&#8217;s no standardization to the process. And also are the proposals going to be on make or are they going to be in a GitHub repo or what team site should something like that go to and how do we handle those?\n\n\n\nSo I think it was covered pretty well in this particular video, but I can understand why people have these questions. And I&#8217;m seeing currently a couple of other YouTubers that are expressing similar concerns, similar questions, and confusion. And what I want to sort of emphasize there is to look at it again, with fresh eyes, there are some people that are new to understanding contribution no matter what their age, they&#8217;re just new to experiencing what it means to contribute or where to provide appropriate feedback besides just yelling into YouTube and Twitter. I mean, those feel soothing for a moment or two, but it does nothing to actually, it&#8217;s not recorded somewhere that people could take action on that, right? It&#8217;s not somewhere that people have to be confronted with dealing with that type of thing and seeing a bit of that type of activity going on.\n\n\n\nAnd also there are some questions. So WPTuts, on YouTube, I don&#8217;t recall the gentleman&#8217;s name. I can say that the gentleman that was doing WPTuts the YouTube video also had a lot of those same kind of thoughts, questions, and concerns. If I provide the feedback, is anyone paying attention? I saw recently a contributor Aurooba, a couple of us know who Aurooba is in our community. Aurooba provided a pull request, which means that she fixed it in code, she saw a bug, she fixed it in code, she submitted a pull request to Gutenberg, and then in 6.6, that bug was fixed by somebody else&#8217;s more recent rendition of the same solution and how inappropriate that that can feel and what can we do to sort of wrangle some of those experiences in a bit better. And so that&#8217;s a little bit of what I&#8217;m observing, and it relates a bit to, for instance, governance.\n\n\n\nThat has sometimes been a hot topic. I&#8217;m not going to make it one today, but Red Hat has a really good article, ironically, Red Hat who took Red Hat Enterprise Linux that runs a lot of hosting environments and pulled it back to private. Red Hat has a good article about the different kinds of governance models. And on some of the same videos, people were inquiring what type of governance model is WordPress because things like proposals have no standardization, and we do fall under what&#8217;s known as Benevolent Dictator for Life. Matt does not enjoy that term, but it is not unique to WordPress.\n\n\n\nRobert: Linux in general is, I mean, Linus Torvaldsds, that&#8217;s where it was born.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes, exactly. And so basically a lot of the decision-making process resides upon the Project co-founder at this time, and that&#8217;s why procedures are maybe where they are looking for a way forward. I&#8217;m going to keep pushing on looking for how we can improve this process. I recognize that our project leadership is a small crew that has a lot of responsibility, especially when 43% of the web rides on their decision-making. So improving that experience is something that I care deeply about, about how we can continue encouraging folks to come provide that feedback, and then ensuring that things like what Aurooba experienced don&#8217;t fall off the radar that we continually look for, oh, here&#8217;s somebody actually already solved the thing, or somebody provided some really valuable feedback. How do we get this feedback heard by those that need to and take action upon it? It&#8217;s a lot to kind of wrangle and deal with.\n\n\n\nAnd I admire recently that Anne McCarthy organized a bunch of the YouTubers that seem to have similar interests like this together for a video to try and unite the YouTuber community because that is a weird niche. I would say they&#8217;re not going to be as much active in Make WordPress Slack, although I&#8217;ve seen more of that and I&#8217;m delighted by it. But they have a whole subset of the community that we don&#8217;t see at events. They have a whole subset of the community that we don&#8217;t see in Slack, and they can really help bridge those connections if done correctly.\n\n\n\nRobert: Yes, I mean, I would just love to have every you dropped &#8217;em in, but just now. But really, if you&#8217;re interested in working on the project in WordPress, step one, make WordPress, get on that Slack. A lot of these questions when I talked about, or when you asked about how was this kind of feedback done in the Joomla space, and this is years ago. I&#8217;m sure it&#8217;s changed now, but at least get on the Slack. You can find the leaders and have that direct question answered one way or the other. And it would be nice if every team had almost like a triage coordinator, just to Courtney&#8217;s eyes just really big.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I&#8217;m nodding. I&#8217;m thinking, oh, I would love to see project manager layers throughout.\n\n\n\nRobert: I&#8217;m just going for triage. You&#8217;re required to get back within 30 to 60 days and flag it for yes, this will move forward, or no, don&#8217;t have time.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I think in addition, maybe Robert, we do have triage work that happens, especially for Core Editor. I know Damon Cook has been really working on that one. Damon contributes on behalf of WP Engine. There are a few others that are in that space for sure. But also I think that we need to do that holistically throughout the whole project. Last bit of news that I have coming in is that just issued within the past week\n\n\n\n, is the state of React informal report about the React community. About React, the open-source project as well. It is part of the JavaScript community holistically. It&#8217;s a lot of what Gutenberg is built on. You can\n\n\n\nRobert: Check out. I was going to say, why do we care about React?\n\n\n\nCourtney: Yes, Gutenberg. Gutenberg uses a lot of React. So you could find that information at 2023 dot state of react.com. It will be in the show notes, but it&#8217;s really interesting to look at contributors to the React community and what kind of feedback that they are offering too. So that&#8217;s the hit list of the news that I&#8217;ve got for this week. It was good seeing you, Robert, and I look forward to our next episode together.\n\n\n\nRobert: Great seeing you again, Courtney. Now that we have at least August, I think minimal to no work, travel break before WordCamp US hits us square in the face.\n\n\n\nCourtney: I know I&#8217;m the lead organizer for contributor day, so I will have a lot more brainpower in October during Hacktoberfest.\n\n\n\nRobert: Thank you, Courtney.\n\n\n\nCourtney: Thank you, Robert.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Open Talk on Open Source, hosts Courtney and Robert recap their experiences at WordCamp Europe, highlighting key presentations on the future sustainability of open source by Joost and Juliet. \n\n\n\nThey have a conversation about the importance of community connections, the challenges in WordPress contributions, and the necessity of funding and supporting open source projects. The chats moves into the significance of testing, the complexities of governance, and the pivotal role of the WordPress community in fostering collaboration and innovation. Links\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nWordCamp Europe Recap: Courtney and Robert reflect on their experiences and memorable moments from WordCamp Europe, emphasizing the importance of such events for community building and networking.\n\n\n\nOpen Source Sustainability: Joost and Juliet&#8217;s presentation highlighted the critical role of open source in daily technology use and the need for sustainable funding and support for these projects.\n\n\n\nChallenges in Contributions: The discussion addressed the difficulties contributors face, including the lack of clear pathways for providing feedback and the need for better support and recognition for volunteer efforts.\n\n\n\nImportance of Testing: Both speakers stressed the necessity of thorough testing, especially with beta releases, to ensure the stability and security of WordPress and other open source projects.\n\n\n\nGovernance and Decision-Making: The episode explored the complexities of governance in open source projects, particularly the role of project leaders and the need for more standardized processes for handling proposals and feedback.\n\n\n\nFunding and Support: The conversation underscored the importance of securing funding for open source development and the need for organizations to support contributors financially.\n\n\n\nEmpowering New Contributors: There was a focus on encouraging new contributors to get involved, providing them with the necessary guidance and support to navigate the contribution process effectively.\n\n\n\nFuture of Open Source: The episode wraps with a look at the future of open source, emphasizing the ongoing need for collaboration, innovation, and community support to drive progress and sustainability.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/07/03/keynote-sustainable-open-source-is-the-future/\">Sustainable Open Source is the Future, Joost de Valk and Juliette Reinders Folmer, WordCamp Europe 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/07/03/panel-democratising-opportunities/\">Panel at WordCamp Europe 2024: Democratising Opportunities</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://typo3.org/project/press/press-releases/open-website-alliance/english\">Drupal, Joomla, TYPO3, and WordPress join forces in a leadership-level alliance</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://academind.com/tutorials/state-of-react-2024\">State of the React 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://allthingsopen.org/\">All Things Open</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nYye07EPlI\">Matt and Mark on WordPress</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://typo3.org/fileadmin/t3o_common_storage/documents/press_releases/2023-07_Open_Letter_to_EU_Legislators/Open_Letter_on_the_Significance_of_Free_and_Open_Source_Software_in_the_EU_s_Proposed_Cyber_Resilience_Act.pdf\">Open Letter on the Significance of Free and Open Source Software in the EU’s Proposed Cyber Resilience Act</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 01 Aug 2024 09:30:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:13;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:67:\"Gravatar: Better Links, Simple Messaging, Developer Tools, and More\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1976\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:92:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/31/better-links-simple-messaging-developer-tools-and-more/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5967:\"July&#8217;s been a whirlwind, and we&#8217;ve got some exciting updates to share. We&#8217;ve been working hard to make your profile for the web shine even brighter.\n\n\n\nLet&#8217;s dive in!\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links That Pop</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2800\" height=\"1720\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-3.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1990\" />\n\n\n\nYour Gravatar profile is evolving into the ultimate Link In Bio tool. Now you can add thumbnails and descriptions to your links, turning your profile into a dynamic showcase. \n\n\n\nShow off your latest project, highlight your blog, or feature your portfolio with style. It&#8217;s like giving your digital presence a makeover, all in one place.\n\n\n\nAnd here&#8217;s a little bonus: <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/26/link-your-gravatar-profile-with-a-free-custom-domain/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">claim your free .link domain</a>. It&#8217;s your chance to own your corner of the web. Pretty neat, right?\n\n\n\nWhether you&#8217;re a blogger, creator, student, or professional, your Gravatar profile is now your go-to spot for sharing everything about you.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/links\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Add new links to your profile here.</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Networking, Simplified</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2880\" height=\"2160\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/contact-sharing-nfc-1.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2003\" />\n\n\n\nRemember the awkward dance of exchanging contact info at events or with a new acquaintance? Those days are over. \n\n\n\nShare your Gravatar profile link, and you&#8217;re instantly connected. On mobile, we&#8217;ve added an &#8216;Add to contacts&#8217; button. One tap, and you&#8217;re in their address book (only any info you&#8217;ve made public, no worries). \n\n\n\nWe&#8217;ve even spruced up the QR code for your profile. Networking just got a whole lot smoother.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simple Contact Form, Your Way</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2880\" height=\"2160\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/profile-message.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2000\" />\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;ve introduced a handy messaging feature. When enabled, other Gravatar users can send you a short message without seeing your email. It&#8217;s like a digital handshake, complete with their Gravatar profile info. You&#8217;re in control of whether to reply to the email and continue the conversation.\n\n\n\nTo turn it on, visit the <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/avatars\">Contact info tab</a> in the profile editor and toggle &#8216;Allow anyone to send me a message&#8217;. That&#8217;s it!<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/contact-info/email\"></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Picture Perfect Avatars</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2800\" height=\"1720\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-4.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1992\" />\n\n\n\nOur new photo editor is faster, mobile-friendly, and packed with tools to make your avatar stand out:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Filters</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Stickers</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Brightness</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Contrast</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Temperature</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Vignette and more </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nUpload a <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/avatars\">new </a><a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/avatars\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">avatar</a> image to give it a spin.\n\n\n\nAnd look for the photo editor to be expanded and added to all photo uploads in Gravatar in the weeks to come.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Quick Editor for Developers</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2800\" height=\"1720\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-5.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1993\" />\n\n\n\nDevelopers, we&#8217;ve got you covered!\n\n\n\nSay hello to the Quick Editor! Now users can update their Gravatar right in your app or website. It&#8217;s seamless integration at its finest. And keep an eye out — a native mobile SDK avatar editor is on the horizon.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/sdk/web-components/quickeditor/\">Learn more about the Quick Editor here.</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Settings Simplified</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2800\" height=\"1720\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-6.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-1995\" />\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;ve tidied up your account settings into one neat page. \n\n\n\nPrivacy, security, language preferences, timezone &#8211; it&#8217;s all there. Your data, your rules.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/profile/?modal=account-settings&path=general\">Go here to give your account settings a quick review.</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Fresh Face, Same Mission</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"2679\" height=\"1592\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/homepage.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2017\" />\n\n\n\nOh, and one more thing! \n\n\n\nWe&#8217;ve given our home page a complete makeover. It&#8217;s not just a new coat of paint &#8211; we&#8217;ve redesigned it to better reflect our mission of empowering your digital identity. \n\n\n\nPop over to <a href=\"https://gravatar.com\">gravatar.com</a> and check it out. We think you&#8217;ll love how it showcases all the ways Gravatar can amplify your online presence.\n\n\n\nThese updates aren&#8217;t just cool features. They&#8217;re about empowering you to create and manage your online identity with ease. We&#8217;re not just about avatars anymore — we&#8217;re your digital profile hub.\n\n\n\nSo go ahead, take these new features for a spin and share the links to your profile near and far. We can&#8217;t wait to see how you use them to showcase your awesome self across the web.\n\n\n\nHappy Gravatar-ing!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 Jul 2024 14:10:17 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:14;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:86:\"WPTavern: #130 – Elena Panciera &amp; Chiara Pennetta on Making the Web for the Deaf\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=157578\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:94:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/130-elena-panciera-chiara-pennetta-on-making-the-web-for-the-deaf\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38779:\"Transcript<div>\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things, WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, making the web a better place for those who are deaf.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Elena Panciera and Chiara Pennetta.\n\n\n\nElena is a freelance consultant specializing in inclusive and accessible languages. She champions, linguistic inclusivity, advocating for simplifying language to aid understanding for non-native speakers across all languages. She believes in providing tools to make text more comprehensible for everyone.\n\n\n\nChiara has been a special needs educator for the past two years. Deaf since infancy, Chiara underwent cochlear implant surgery four years ago, significantly improving her hearing. This transformative experience deepened, and altered, her connection to her deaf identity, and spurred her to explore issues of deafness and accessibility.\n\n\n\nThey&#8217;re joining us to discuss the important topic of accessibility online. Accessibility is often an overlooked aspect of web development and event planning, and there are significant challenges and opportunities in making content accessible to diverse audiences.\n\n\n\nElena and Chiara walk us through their personal journeys and professional insights, shedding light on the varying needs within the deaf community.\n\n\n\nChiara shares her experiences of navigating a world that is increasingly leaning towards video content. And how platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube have improved accessibility through automatic captioning.\n\n\n\nElena highlights the importance of these features, not only for deaf individuals, but also for a broader audience that benefits from reading captions.\n\n\n\nWe talk about the implications of the European Accessibility Act, set to revolutionize accessibility requirements for websites. What will this mean for developers and content creators? Are captions enough, or should we aim for sign language interpretations as well, despite their complexity and cost?\n\n\n\nWe also talk about the essential principles of simplification in transcription, and our AI tools are shaping how we deliver accessible content. Chiara emphasizes the diverse needs of individuals with hearing impairments, and why aligning transcriptions with the original content is crucial.\n\n\n\nTowards the end, we explore technologies which are improving communication for the deaf community, and the practical steps WordPress events can take to be more inclusive.\n\n\n\nWhether you&#8217;re a web developer, event planner, or just passionate about accessibility, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Elena Panciera and Chiara Pennetta.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast today by Elena Panciera and Chiara Pannetta. Very nice to have you both with me.\n\n\n\n[00:04:10] Elena Panciera: Thank you.\n\n\n\n[00:04:11] Nathan Wrigley: We&#8217;re in WordCamp Europe. It is Saturday, so it&#8217;s the final day of the conference, and I&#8217;m talking to these two fine people about a topic that they spoke about. It was yesterday I think, and so we&#8217;re going to get into that topic in a moment. And it&#8217;s a topic that, I confess, I don&#8217;t know very much about. So hopefully they&#8217;re going to tell me, and educate me a lot about it.\n\n\n\nBut before we do that, one at a time, could I ask you just to introduce yourselves. Tell us a little bit about who you are, where you come from, where you live, what you do for a living, that kind of thing. So let&#8217;s go.\n\n\n\n[00:04:42] Elena Panciera: Hi, I&#8217;m Elena Panciera, and I&#8217;m a freelance consultant. I&#8217;m expert about inclusive and accessible languages. And, well, I work as a freelancer, so I&#8217;m a trainer, I make consultancies about accessibility, and about how to be kind and respectful with language. This is what I do.\n\n\n\n[00:05:05] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you.\n\n\n\n[00:05:06] Chiara Pennetta: Hello, my name is Chiara Pennetta. I am 30 years old from Italy. I work as a teacher in special needs education, since two years ago. I studied Ancient Greek and Latin, and then I specialised in teaching Italian as a second language. But four years ago, I got two cochlear implants because I am deaf since I was one and a half years ago. Five years ago in fact, I chose to try and improve my hearing with this surgery, which is called cochlear implant.\n\n\n\nIn that moment I became more hearing from a medical point of view, but I became also more deaf from an identity point of view. And so I chose to delve more into the topic of deafness and accessibility. And that was when I opened my Instagram page, which is called the undeaf, because I don&#8217;t feel hearing nor deaf.\n\n\n\nAnd that was when I met Elena, and we started studying, and working together to make the world a more accessible place. And that was also when I decided to be a teacher for the people with disabilities in high school here in Italy.\n\n\n\n[00:06:26] Nathan Wrigley: Thank you very much. Can I just ask you, you said that your medical deafness had improved, but your, I think you said identity. Did you say identity? Your identity deafness or something. What did that mean? What did you mean by that?\n\n\n\n[00:06:42] Chiara Pennetta: I think that deafness is considered a disability by most people. So the lack of hearing. But deafness is also a community, a culture, and a language. Because if you start studying sign language like I did four years ago, you will find out that there is a new whole world to discover about deaf identity.\n\n\n\nFor me, that was life changing. It&#8217;s a paradox because I found out about my deaf identity only when I improved my hearing. It&#8217;s a paradox I know. But my cochlear implant are more visible than the hearing aid I have had before. And so my deafness became more visible, but also more invisible because my speech improved. My access to the world of sounds improved. Also my identity, like I said before.\n\n\n\n[00:07:42] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting. Okay, thank you for clearing that up. I appreciate it.\n\n\n\nSo during the course of this interview, I will be asking questions, and it doesn&#8217;t really matter who wants to take it, but thank you for the introductions.\n\n\n\nSo let&#8217;s begin then. So the first question that I&#8217;ve got really is, well, I should probably introduce what you spoke about at WordCamp Europe. Your topic was called Digital and Linguistic Accessibility Techniques and Strategies for deaf people. So we&#8217;re going to try and explore that a little bit.\n\n\n\nAnd my first question then is, what kind of experiences on the web are different if you are deaf? So I am in the fortunate position to have good eyesight, I wear glasses, but I have good eyesight. You know, my hands and my legs all work. I can hold a mouse, I can type on a keyboard, and my hearing is good. So I genuinely don&#8217;t know what it would be like to browse the internet, to move around online if I couldn&#8217;t hear. So could you just describe the difference it would be, for me, if I had deafness.\n\n\n\n[00:08:44] Chiara Pennetta: Sure. I think that the biggest difference is about all the video, and sound, musical content, of course. So anything that you experience with your hearing is different, if you don&#8217;t have hearing at all, or are partially deaf. Any video, any podcast of course, any web content which is accessible by audio feed, needs to be supported with the captions or transcription, or like signals. I don&#8217;t know, maybe it is not web related, but in movies when you have captions, and someone knocks at the door, the captions signal that there is someone knocking. So sound signals and transcription is really important. I think that that&#8217;s the most important thing to say.\n\n\n\nBut yesterday, Elena and I really focus that, in many occasions, captions and transcription are not enough. Because many people who are born deaf, and maybe don&#8217;t use hearing aids, sometimes are not proficient in understanding an oral spoken language, even if it is in a written form.\n\n\n\nSo they can have struggles in understanding complex, and the longest sentences with the complex syntax, and the vocabulary. Elena, which she&#8217;s expert in language accessibilities, really gave tools to write in a way that is accessible to people who don&#8217;t have a high level of proficiency in understanding a written text.\n\n\n\n[00:10:22] Nathan Wrigley: Right, so the assumption then that if I, for example, produce a video, and I&#8217;m very, the word I&#8217;m going to use is verbose, meaning I use too much language, I&#8217;m talking but my sentences are complicated and what have you. Are you suggesting then you need to bear in mind making it more straightforward? Because if I&#8217;m reading it, it might also be the case that my level of cognition, understanding what I&#8217;m reading, may also impact my ability to understand that content. So whoever wants to take that.\n\n\n\n[00:10:54] Elena Panciera: Yes, actually, we have to keep in mind that not everybody has the same level of proficiency in any language, and especially in Italian. Because in English it&#8217;s quite easier to have shorter sentences, and since it&#8217;s a very commonly used language amongst a lot of people that have other languages as first languages, English is more simple. But in Italian, for example, we commonly use very long sentences, with a lot of clauses that are not coordinate clauses, and subjunctives, and a lot of difficult words.\n\n\n\nThe oral Italian is simpler, and the written Italian, we tend to use more difficult words, and more difficult structures. And so it&#8217;s important to keep it simple, and to try to think that not everybody have Italian as a first language. And this happens also for every other language. So for English, but also for German, for Spanish and so on. And so we have tools that can help us trying to make a text simpler.\n\n\n\nWe have also artificial intelligence that can help us. There are ChatGPT, and Gemini, for example, but also tools that are integrated into WordPress. For example, Yoast or Semrush have tools that help simplify text, and choose simpler words, and more common words, for example.\n\n\n\n[00:12:43] Nathan Wrigley: Can I ask you a question about this podcast? So when I have finished editing this, I will make a transcription and I will try to make it perfect, exactly what you say. However, sometimes, because you are speaking in your native language is Italian, I sometimes take the position that it&#8217;s better for me to translate it into the English that I would like you to have said, if you were an English speaker. What do you think about that? I&#8217;m sometimes faced with the difficult thing, okay, I think they meant to say it this way, so I&#8217;ll write it that way, whereas you didn&#8217;t actually say it that way. What should I do?\n\n\n\n[00:13:25] Elena Panciera: Actually, this is a very interesting question, because I think there are also different positions about that. Because sometimes I&#8217;ve been told that it&#8217;s better to have very, very, transcriptions that are perfect. And so they transcript exactly what the speaker said. But actually, in terms of accessibility, maybe it could be more interesting, even simplify a little bit the language. So make the sentences shorter and, I don&#8217;t know, adapt a little bit the transcription.\n\n\n\n[00:14:02] Chiara Pennetta: I would like to add something on this topic. I don&#8217;t know if you ever noticed that in many movies when you buy the DVD, or Netflix too I think, you can choose from normal captions, basic captions, and the caption that are all called subtitles for the hearing impaired.\n\n\n\n[00:14:22] Nathan Wrigley: I have not come across that. So this is new. It&#8217;s interesting, keep going, yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:14:25] Chiara Pennetta: Sometimes you have two kinds of transcription for movies, or a TV series because basic captions transcribe literally everything that the actors say. While captions for deaf people are often simplified in the vocabulary and grammar, because maybe the proficiency language is a bit different, and they need a language structure which is more simple and accessible.\n\n\n\n[00:14:53] Nathan Wrigley: And also, I would imagine keeping up. Being able to read at the speed that somebody is saying something. So if a, let&#8217;s imagine a movie on Netflix, if an actor is speaking fairly quickly, and you are transcribing every single word, it&#8217;s hard to read at the speed of speech. If we just take out unnecessary words and just sum up the idea behind it. That&#8217;s really interesting because you have to have an opinion about what they intended to say, and how much you can simplify it, because you might lose some of the context.\n\n\n\nBut you can do both. You put the exact transcript, but you have the secondary choice, I&#8217;m going to use air quotes, the simpler version, fewer words, easier to understand, less complicated words, shorter words. Ah, that&#8217;s really interesting. I had no idea that existed. Do you want to add something to that?\n\n\n\n[00:15:46] Elena Panciera: This is the principle of simplify and facilitate. So there are these two different concepts, the simplification and facilitation.\n\n\n\nSimplification means that we adapt and change the original text. And with facilitation, we can add tools to help the reader understand the text, but the original text that remain the same. You can add glossaries. You can add another version, a simplified version, or a shorter version. Because we could have also difficulties in keeping up the attention for a long time, and to read a very long text, this could be difficult. So yeah, we have different tools to improve the accessibility.\n\n\n\nAnd actually accessibility is multimedia, and going across different tools, and different medias. For example, the transcription is different from the audio, and also we can add graphics, illustrations, or visual tools to improve the understanding for text.\n\n\n\n[00:17:03] Nathan Wrigley: What do these tools do? So I&#8217;m imagining that I&#8217;ve transcribed this, and I&#8217;ve got my perfect, in air quotes, transcription. I&#8217;m really happy with it. Do I then just copy and paste what I&#8217;ve got, put it into a tool, click a button, and it will go through it with artificial intelligence, for example, and just shorten everything, make it more brief, as we&#8217;ve just described. What do these tools do? And could you name a few, because I don&#8217;t, I&#8217;ve never heard of any of them, so I&#8217;d like to go out and find what some of them are.\n\n\n\n[00:17:33] Elena Panciera: Actually, yes, there are some tools like ChatGPT, Gemini. Or specific tools like Capito that can help you doing this in a automatic way. But actually it&#8217;s always better, in my opinion, to check what the artificial intelligence do.\n\n\n\nThe human intelligence is still better than the artificial one. And actually you can use your critical sense. I don&#8217;t know if I can use this in English? Yes, because you can really think what is important, and maybe you can also ask, in your case, you could ask us, what would you mean with this sentence? Because it was not in a perfect English, so we can tell you and make it right. I don&#8217;t know how to say, but let the mistakes be only in the oral podcast, and make a better version in the written text.\n\n\n\n[00:18:34] Nathan Wrigley: Right, so a good example of that that&#8217;s coming into my mind might be, if both of us said, I don&#8217;t know the word like a lot. It&#8217;s commonly used in English, we say like, like, like, like, and also um, um, you know, those kind of things. Would you want that to be kept in a transcription, or even the audio? Because I tend to, when I edit this podcast, I tend to get rid of the bits, well, for example, of silence. There might be five seconds of silence where you think of your answer in this podcast episode. I take the position, let&#8217;s get rid of that silence. Let&#8217;s make it just so that one word follows the next word.\n\n\n\nAnd also I take out the ums, and the ahs, and the likes and things. I&#8217;m really making a completely new version of what you said. Is that a good idea? Would you prefer to listen to exactly what we record today? Or is it okay to edit things out? Is there a better way of doing it?\n\n\n\n[00:19:28] Chiara Pennetta: I think oral version of a thing and the written version, or the painted version, or the dance version of something are, of course, different things, because they&#8217;re different products. So we can&#8217;t expect to be the same, it wouldn&#8217;t be right. They are two different things, so it&#8217;s normal. That&#8217;s not the same thing because you can, you perceive those two things with two different senses. And so I think it is right to delete the ums and the like, because it will be not pleasurable to read a text full of ums and like.\n\n\n\nIt depends also, what is the main goal that you want to achieve with that text? It is more important that people can understand what the vibe was, or what the content was.\n\n\n\nI think that it is also really personal because, for example, I can hear pretty well with my cochlear implant, so I like my caption and my transcriptions to be really faithful to the original. Because if I hear, and at the same time I read, I like those two things to be the same. Or maybe if I watch a movie, I like that, when I see the lips moving, I hear the same thing, and I read the same thing on my captions.\n\n\n\nBut other deaf people, or maybe other people who need other kind of accessibilities, like people with learning difficulties, or people who with cognitive disabilities, they may need, and want, a different kind of test, to more get to the point, to more understand it. So I think that it is impossible to have a solution which is perfect for everyone.\n\n\n\n[00:21:18] Nathan Wrigley: I guess one of the things that I could do, if I had enough time and enough resources, I could also translate this from English, and have it in Italian, or Spanish, or Portuguese, or whatever language we can imagine. It will just be done in English though.\n\n\n\nIn a way, the ability to read a language gives you more options to make something visible, available to people from different cultures. If it&#8217;s just a YouTube video with no captions, no subtitles, and it&#8217;s just in English, only English people, or not English people, English speaking people can understand that.\n\n\n\nIf you throw in the captions and the subtitles, you can actually make the exact same piece of content available to the whole world. If you could translate it into Chinese, and Japanese, and everything. But unfortunately, that&#8217;s not going to be the case, in this case.\n\n\n\nOkay, back to the questions. This may seem like a silly question because, as I said, I have good hearing. Does the amount of deafness, and I don&#8217;t know what the correct word is for that but, for example, imagine somebody who has no hearing at all. Or somebody who has partial hearing, maybe one ear isn&#8217;t working as well, or if they can hear half of the sounds, or anything in between. Is there a difference there? Do we have to make things available in different ways? Just tell us what that&#8217;s like.\n\n\n\n[00:22:35] Chiara Pennetta: Yeah, I think we should talk about deafnesses, plural. Because we have a wide variety of shades of deafness. Mainly since when a technology came in, I don&#8217;t know if 70 years ago we didn&#8217;t have hearing aids and cochlear implant, which work in a certain way.\n\n\n\nToday, we have a wide amount of technology that can help retrieve our hearing. But even if two people with the same level of hearing loss use the same kind of hearing aid, it is not obvious that they could gain the same amount of hearing gain.\n\n\n\nSo definitely is a wide word, it depends on when you lose your hearing, before or after the age in which children learn to speak. And so we have prelingual or postlingual deafness.\n\n\n\nAnd of course you can lose your healing at different levels. So mild or profound hearing loss are different. Or we have deafness for elderly people, so late life. It&#8217;s a really, really wide word.\n\n\n\nSome people learn sign languages since they are little children because they are born in deaf families, into deaf culture. Some others don&#8217;t, like I became deaf when I was one year and a half, and I was born in a hearing family. So I didn&#8217;t learn sign language up until four years ago for my personal curiosity.\n\n\n\nThat means that I learn how to speak through hearing aids and speech therapy. But I know many people who have the same amount of hearing loss as me, from a medical point of view, but have really different speech ability and language ability. We have a very wide, a very big variety of deaf world.\n\n\n\n[00:24:32] Nathan Wrigley: So it feels to me like, when the internet came along, I don&#8217;t know, 1995 or something like that, that being a deaf person, you could access almost all of the internet because it was just images and text, that&#8217;s how the internet began. But more and more, fast forward to 2005, or whenever YouTube came along, video content started to rapidly take over. And now with TikTok, and apps, and the phone that you&#8217;ve got in your pocket, it feels like there&#8217;s more and more content that&#8217;s inaccessible to deaf people. Is that a trend? Is it becoming harder to use the internet? Things like YouTube, like I say, and TikTok, is that kind of taking over and making it more difficult?\n\n\n\n[00:25:15] Chiara Pennetta: I don&#8217;t think it is becoming harder. I think that, maybe in the beginning, when videos weren&#8217;t captioned, yes. But now, we have automatic captions on TikTok, on Instagram mostly, and on YouTube. So even if the content creator doesn&#8217;t put on their captions, or their transcription, it is possible to activate automatic caption or automatic transcription.\n\n\n\n[00:25:41] Nathan Wrigley: Can I just ask, do you need to tell TikTok or YouTube to do that, or does it automatically do it for you?\n\n\n\n[00:25:48] Chiara Pennetta: Yes, it&#8217;s the user responsibility because you have to click on a button to activate captions. But I think that deaf people&#8217;s lives changed with the internet because, I don&#8217;t remember the name, but back in the old days, it was invented like a phone who transcribed the phone calls. And when we started having video calls, deaf people were so happy because they could call each other, seeing each other, and use sign language during their phone calls. And so communication really exploded. It was a right that came a bit later for the deaf community, the signing deaf community of course.\n\n\n\n[00:26:30] Elena Panciera: I think that also, the ability to read lips with video calls is a good accessibility sign. And captioning is getting better actually. And also, captioning is not used only by deaf people. Actually, I am one of those people that need captions because otherwise I hate the vocal messages. And I hate these kind of messages that are only oral, and so I prefer to read. And I&#8217;m not deaf actually, so accessibility can really help a lot of people, even if they&#8217;re not with disabilities.\n\n\n\n[00:27:14] Nathan Wrigley: From everything that you&#8217;ve said, it really does sound like technology has improved dramatically the life of people who are deaf, and obviously you said it&#8217;s a spectrum. Yeah, when you mentioned about video calls, I hadn&#8217;t even thought about that. But suddenly you can see the person, lip read maybe, but also the sign language. It just made communication over a distance suddenly possible.\n\n\n\nYou could speak to people from all over the world, not rely on hearing, which of course on the phone call, the regular phone call, if you can&#8217;t see it, you couldn&#8217;t interact with it at all. Profound.\n\n\n\nSo technology is really helping. And I&#8217;ve got to say, dear listener, in front of me, about two feet away, I don&#8217;t know whose it is, but is a mobile phone. And the mobile phone is facing you two, and it&#8217;s translating in real time. And I&#8217;m watching it now, you&#8217;ve just turned it around so that I can see. So it&#8217;s two feet away, it must have the microphone switched on, and it&#8217;s translating everything I&#8217;m saying, and it&#8217;s translating it literally perfectly. It&#8217;s astonishing. And this is, what, just Google? Just Google?\n\n\n\n[00:28:20] Elena Panciera: Yes. It&#8217;s like a Google transcribe. There is an app free on the Google store. And this is my phone actually, because I have an Android phone, and she has an iPhone, that is more accessible for other things, I think.\n\n\n\n[00:28:38] Nathan Wrigley: But, whether you&#8217;ve got an Android phone or an iPhone, I am blown away by how good that is. And obviously I&#8217;ve never had to use it, so I&#8217;ve never really seen it. Can I just ask, dare I say, we&#8217;re going off message a little bit. Would that also enable me to talk to you in Italian? So for example, could it translate my English words, and the text on the screen would then be Italian? Can it do that as well?\n\n\n\n[00:29:03] Chiara Pennetta: Well, no. I think that you can, no, I know that you can set the language in which you are speaking. So if you now start speaking in Italian, I have to switch, on the app, the language to Italian, and it&#8217;ll start transcribing in Italian, or in any other language.\n\n\n\nBut if I wanted a live translation too, I think I&#8217;d have to use a computer, and open another app with artificial intelligence, that could transcribe and translate at the same time. There are application that can do that.\n\n\n\nI actually saw, maybe yesterday, I saw on the laptop of the people who are helping out in the speech on the track one, and they had an application I think that said, if you want to change, on your device, the language of the captions, you could. So I think there may be people who couldn&#8217;t understand English, because yesterday we spoke in English, and there were also captions on the main screen, projected in English, that transcribed like now.\n\n\n\nBut I think maybe you could download an app or something that also translates into another language. So this is all the work of artificial intelligence. So I think that maybe because languages are so rich, and different, I think it is impossible to achieve a perfect translation. For the main content I think it&#8217;s useful as well.\n\n\n\n[00:30:40] Nathan Wrigley: Genuinely, I&#8217;m astonished by how good that is. And it&#8217;s enabling me, I mean you could have had headphones in, but you&#8217;ve chosen not to, but I&#8217;m noticing that you are looking down at it, and so you are seeing and reading what I&#8217;m saying in real time. That is profoundly amazing. This kind of stuff must make life a lot more straightforward, and a lot simpler. Yeah, that&#8217;s absolutely brilliant.\n\n\n\nOff pieced again, how do we do at WordPress events, helping out people who are deaf? Do we get it right? Do we have the right balance of, I don&#8217;t know, sign language, captioning? Do we do pretty well, or is there work that we still need to do?\n\n\n\n[00:31:18] Chiara Pennetta: Well, I am very happy with the captions, but I didn&#8217;t see any sign language interpreter. I don&#8217;t know if there, I didn&#8217;t see any, that&#8217;s my opinion, my experience. But I also didn&#8217;t ask for it because, even if I know sign language, I don&#8217;t rely on it to access to the world. So maybe if I ask for it, it would be possible to gain an interpreter.\n\n\n\nBut I think the problem is, I only know Italian sign language. Since there are many sign languages in the world that I don&#8217;t know, British or American sign language, I think it&#8217;ll be difficult to find an interpreter who can listen to English, and then in his or her mind, translate into Italian, and then translate again into Italian sign language. There are people who can, amazing people, but it&#8217;s not easy.\n\n\n\nOr we could ask for an international sign interpreter. And the international sign is not an actual language, but it&#8217;s a mix of different sign languages, mostly based on ASL American Sign Language. And so I think that I could understand it, but I never tried.\n\n\n\nBut I&#8217;m really happy with the organisation. It was the first time for me to attend the WorldPress conference, nevertheless WordCamp Europe, so I felt really welcome, and my needs were met.\n\n\n\n[00:32:49] Nathan Wrigley: Good. Yeah, well, I&#8217;m pleased to hear it. I&#8217;ve no clue really as to whether or not, at some events, they do have sign language. But yeah, that&#8217;s an interesting point, I hadn&#8217;t really thought about that. It would have to be, the sign language would have to be, in English or American English, whichever. And then you would also have to understand that, as somebody that was using sign language, you&#8217;d have to not only be able to use the English sign language, but then presumably you&#8217;d have to translate it in your own head into Italian. So that, yeah, that would make life really difficult.\n\n\n\n[00:33:18] Elena Panciera: Yeah. Actually, in this kind of event, I think that the best solution is to ask people attending the conference, what do you need? Because actually, maybe you could have a person from France that communicates with French sign language, and they could need French sign language. And so it&#8217;s easier to meet their need, and to ask French sign language interpreter to help them. Because otherwise it could be really, really, expensive, you know, to translate versus toward every language.\n\n\n\n[00:33:57] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. You can imagine there&#8217;d be 15 people standing on the stage, with the French translation, or the sign language, the English, the, I don&#8217;t know, Portuguese, or whatever. Yeah, that could be interesting.\n\n\n\nSo I know neither of you are lawyers. We established that at the beginning, but just, I&#8217;m near the end now, my question is all about website builders, people who build websites. That&#8217;s what most of us are here for. We&#8217;re building websites using WordPress to do that.\n\n\n\nIs there any responsibility, any legal things that we need to know about? I know that in 2025 we&#8217;ve got the European Accessibility Act. Will it become required, for example, with video to have captions, things like that? Do you know? And I, again, I stress, you&#8217;re not lawyers, we understand. But, do you know if we, as website builders, are compelled to do that? I know that we should do that, it would be the right thing to do, and the moral thing to do. But I think sometimes it&#8217;s easy to not do those things because it&#8217;s cheaper, quicker, all of those things. So do you know if there&#8217;s any compulsion, any legal reason that we must do this?\n\n\n\n[00:34:58] Elena Panciera: Actually, yes. From the 2025, we have to think in a different way about accessibility because there is the European Accessibility Act that is going to be followed. We have to follow this act.\n\n\n\nActually, there are different levels of accessibility, and the captions, for example, they&#8217;re quite simple, and quite cheap with artificial intelligence. For example, a translation in sign language would be another level of accessibility that is not mandatory. It depends on how the budget is, and how also the aim of the company is.\n\n\n\nBecause maybe if a company know that it&#8217;s public, its audience is mainly, or a huge amount of people is deaf, it could decide to invest some money into having a sign language interpreter, for example, that is not mandatory. But the captions, well, are supposed to be there. And, yeah, also other things, transcriptions, but yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:36:14] Nathan Wrigley: We&#8217;ll have to wait and see, won&#8217;t we, how well it&#8217;s enforced next year. Because we&#8217;ll have the legislation, but it&#8217;ll be interesting to see if people adhere to it. And if they don&#8217;t adhere to it, whether or not they get, well, punished, for want of a better word. We&#8217;ll just have to see how that goes.\n\n\n\nI think with the time coming up to nearly the hour, we&#8217;ll knock it on the head, as we say in the UK. We&#8217;ll end it there. But thank you for speaking to me about this today. I&#8217;m going to be really curious what you make of the transcription, and the edit of the audio that I do from this. I&#8217;m fascinated to see whether I over edited it. Whether I took out the ums, and the ahs, and the silences that we had, we are going to edit some mistakes out and things like that.\n\n\n\nBut I&#8217;m more curious about what you think of the transcription that I do, and whether or not it&#8217;s what you would&#8217;ve liked it to have been, or whether or not I overdid it. So let&#8217;s wait and see. I&#8217;ll send it to you before it comes out. But thank you so much for chatting to me today, both of you. I&#8217;ve really enjoyed it, and I&#8217;ve learned a lot. Thank you.\n\n\n\n[00:37:11] Chiara Pennetta: Thank you to you.\n\n\n\n[00:37:12] Elena Panciera: Thank you. It was really a pleasure to be here.\n</div>\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Elena Panciera &amp; Chiara Pennetta.\n\n\n\nElena is a freelance consultant specialising in inclusive and accessible languages. She champions linguistic inclusivity, advocating for simplifying language to aid understanding for non-native speakers across all languages. She believes in providing tools to make text more comprehensible for everyone.\n\n\n\nChiara Pennetta has been a special needs educator for the past two years. Deaf since infancy, Chiara underwent cochlear implant surgery four years ago, significantly improving her hearing. This transformative experience deepened, and altered, her connection to her deaf identity and spurred her to explore issues of deafness and accessibility.\n\n\n\nThey’re joining us to discuss the important topic of accessibility online.\n\n\n\nAccessibility is often an overlooked aspect of web development and event planning, and there are significant challenges and opportunities in making content accessible to diverse audiences. Elena and Chiara walk us through their personal journeys and professional insights, shedding light on the varying needs within the deaf community.\n\n\n\nChiara shares her experiences of navigating a world that is increasingly leaning towards video content, and how platforms like TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube have improved accessibility through automatic captioning. Elena highlights the importance of these features, not only for deaf individuals, but also for a broader audience that benefits from reading captions.\n\n\n\nWe talk about the implications of the European Accessibility Act, set to revolutionise accessibility requirements for websites. What will this mean for developers and content creators? Are captions enough, or should we aim for sign language interpretations as well, despite their complexity and cost?\n\n\n\nWe also talk about the essential principles of simplification in transcription, and how AI tools are shaping how we deliver accessible content. Chiara emphasises the diverse needs of individuals with hearing impairments and why aligning transcriptions with the original content is crucial.\n\n\n\nTowards the end we explore technologies which are improving communication for the deaf community, and the practical steps WordPress events can take to be more inclusive.\n\n\n\nWhether you’re a web developer, event planner, or just passionate about accessibility, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\nElena and Chiara&#8217;s WordCamp Europe presentation: <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/session/digital-and-linguistic-accessibility-techniques-and-strategies-for-deaf-people/\">Digital and linguistic accessibility techniques and strategies for deaf people</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://yoast.com/\">Yoast</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.semrush.com/\">Semrush</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://openai.com/chatgpt/\">ChatGPT</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gemini.google.com/\">Gemini</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.capito.eu/en/capitodigital/\">Capito</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/accessibility/making-audio-more-accessible-two-new-apps/\">Google Transcribe</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 Jul 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:15;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"Akismet: Landing Page Conversion Rates: 24 Proven Ways to Optimize Them\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"http://akismet.com/?p=284070\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54:\"https://akismet.com/blog/landing-page-conversion-rate/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:39947:\"Your landing page is where first impressions are made. And from there, it’s where potential customers decide if they want to do business with you.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWhether you’re a <a href=\"https://akismet.com/enterprise/\">large enterprise</a> or a small business, this is an undeniable fact. Which means optimizing your landing page is super important. Your aim? To strive for more engagement and a higher conversion rate.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAccording to the <a href=\"https://unbounce.com/conversion-benchmark-report/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Conversion Benchmark Report</a> put together by Unbounce, the median conversion rate for landing pages across all industries is 4.3%.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nSo how can you ensure your landing pages meet that metric or do even better than average?&nbsp;\n\n\n\nHere, we’re covering 24 proven ways to boost your landing page conversion rates. These practical tips are designed to help you capture more leads and increase sales, regardless of whether you&#8217;re using WordPress or another platform.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"1-create-a-captivating-header-or-hero section\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">1. Create a captivating header or hero&nbsp;section</h2>\n\nThe header or hero section is the first thing visitors see on your landing page, so it needs to grab their attention and clearly communicate your value proposition. But more on that in a&nbsp;moment.\n\nBe sure to use large, bold fonts to make your message stand out, and complement this with high&#8209;resolution images or background videos. The <a href=\"https://www.calm.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Calm app</a>, for instance, uses ample white space and clear, compelling visuals to draw people&nbsp;in.\n\n\nThe image selected radiates a sense of calm — exactly what you’d hope to experience with the product at hand.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"787\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image.jpeg\" alt=\"the Calm app website with two CTA buttons\" class=\"wp-image-284072\" />\n\n\n<h2 id=\"2-state-a-clear-value proposition\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">2. State a clear value&nbsp;proposition</h2>\n\nYour value proposition should succinctly explain how your product or service solves customers&#8217; problems. Or it might show how it improves their situation or delivers specific benefits. No matter your approach, it should tell your ideal customer why they should buy from you and not from the competition. And it shouldn’t take an entire paragraph to accomplish this&nbsp;mission.\n\n\nAn effective value proposition is a pretty important cornerstone for your entire marketing program —&nbsp;not just your landing pages. So if you don’t already have a permanent value proposition established for your company, you’ll want to spend some extra time with this step. Here are some extra tips to make the most of your efforts:\n\n\n<h3 id=\"be-specific-and-focus-on-tangible benefits\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Be specific and focus on tangible&nbsp;benefits</h3>\n\n\nSteer clear of vague statements and industry jargon. Instead, talk about specific outcomes customers can expect and benefits you offer. So, instead of saying &#8220;Improve your productivity,&#8221; specify how and by how much. Something like, &#8220;Reduce unnecessary meetings to boost your team&#8217;s productivity by 40% in just one month&#8221;, is a much clearer value proposition.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h3 id=\"address-your-ideal-customerâs-pain points\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Address your ideal customer’s pain&nbsp;points</h3>\n\nUnderstand your customers&#8217; challenges and explain how your product or service addresses these issues. Conducting customer research and gathering feedback can help you pinpoint these needs and incorporate them into your landing page&nbsp;copy.\n\n<h3 id=\"emphasize-what-sets-you apart\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Emphasize what sets you&nbsp;apart</h3>\n\n\nThis could be unique features, superior quality, exceptional customer service, or some new technology. Take P2 as an example. They keep their homepage or landing page simple, with a headline visible immediately. As of 2024, it includes, “A platform for teams to share, discuss, and collaborate openly, without interruption.”&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"838\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image.png\" alt=\"P2 homepage with a clear value proposition\" class=\"wp-image-284074\" />\n\n\n\nAnd a quick scroll makes it abundantly clear that the value proposition here is a streamlined team communication and work reporting platform.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"3-write-compelling headlines\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">3. Write compelling&nbsp;headlines</h2>\n\n\nA compelling headline is critical for capturing your audience’s attention and encouraging them to read further. It’s the first thing visitors notice, and it sets the tone for the rest of your landing page.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nTo create headlines that convert, you need to ensure they immediately convey what your product or service is and the primary benefit it offers. Avoid ambiguous or clever phrases that might confuse visitors. Clear and direct headlines ensure that visitors understand the core message at a glance. For instance, <a href=\"https://www.grammarly.com\">Grammarly</a> features a few headlines on its landing page, including, “Better writing, better results.”&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"534\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-2.jpeg\" alt=\"Grammarly homepage with a clear headling\" class=\"wp-image-284076\" />\n\n\n\nBoth of these headlines make it clear what customers stand to gain from using this service.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nBeyond the benefit-focus, you can also follow a couple of tried and true rules for writing compelling headlines. For instance, you can use powerful words that evoke emotion and encourage action, like “Transform” or “Discover”.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIncluding numbers or specific data in your headline can make it more credible, too. Statistics, percentages, and specific figures attract more attention than generic statements.&nbsp;&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"4-use visuals\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">4. Use&nbsp;visuals</h2>\n\n\nVisual elements matter a great deal, too. They help to break up text, illustrate key points, and keep visitors interested. So it’s obviously worthwhile to include only high-quality images on your landing page.&nbsp;\n\n\nDoing so will make it look more professional. Any old image won’t do, however. Make sure the visuals you select are relevant to your content. For example, lifestyle images that depict people using your product in real&#8209;life scenarios can create an emotional connection with&nbsp;visitors.\n\n\nYou could make use of background videos, too. These add a dynamic element to your hero section, making it more engaging. They should be short, relevant, and high-quality — of course — and feed into the overall visual narrative of your landing page.&nbsp;&nbsp;\n\n\nA strategically&#8209;placed infographic is a nice touch, too. These images make it straightforward to display complex information in an accessible way. They can help explain processes, display statistics, and illustrate the benefits of your&nbsp;product.\n\n\n<h2 id=\"5-keep-forms-short-and-simple \" class=\"wp-block-heading\">5. Keep forms short and simple&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\nNo one wants to have to spend several minutes completing a complex form. That’s why keeping yours short and simple can help boost the conversion rate on your landing page. This won’t necessarily apply to every industry, where some might need to capture a great deal of information to do business together&nbsp;properly.\n\n\nFor most, however, keeping the number of fields on your forms limited is a wise choice. Try to keep it all on one screen, too. Multistep forms can be effective in fields where you have complex data collection needs, but a straightforward 3-4 field form is still typically best.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nEnsure that each form field has a clear, concise label that indicates what information is required, and make use of inline validation. This provides real-time feedback to people as they fill out the form.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThis feature helps users correct errors immediately and increases the likelihood of form completion.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThe <a href=\"https://akismet.com/talk-to-sales/\">Akismet enterprise</a> contact page offers a solid example of an effective landing page contact form.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"866\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-1.png\" alt=\"Akismet form with just a few fields\" class=\"wp-image-284077\" />\n\n\n\nIt asks for straightforward, relevant information without being overwhelming. There’s just enough questions to segment submissions without plummeting conversion rates.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"6-avoid-using captcha\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">6. Avoid using&nbsp;CAPTCHA</h2>\n\n\n<a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/what-is-captcha/\">CAPTCHAs are commonly used to prevent spam</a> and bot submissions on forms, but they can also create friction and frustration for genuine users. Any added friction in the conversion process can lead to an increased bounce rate. So, skipping the CAPTCHA on your landing page forms is the best approach.&nbsp;\n\n\nBeyond the UX inconvenience they pose, CAPTCHAs also present accessibility issues and can be quite problematic for those with disabilities. Visually impaired people may find it challenging to complete visual CAPTCHAs, while audio CAPTCHAs may not be effective in noisy environments or for those with hearing impairments. A less accessible, inclusive website can make for a knock to your brand’s reputation, a lack of compliance with accessibility standards, and reduced conversion&nbsp;rates.\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"667\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-3.jpeg\" alt=\"information about Akismet\'s features\" class=\"wp-image-284078\" />\n\n\nAll that said, you still don’t want to be inundated with spam. Thankfully, there’s a better way to prevent this kind of&nbsp;annoyance.\n\n\nInstead of relying on CAPTCHAs, using <a href=\"https://akismet.com/features/\">Akismet</a> is an effective, cost-efficient solution. Akismet’s powerful spam filtering service can automatically detect and block spam submissions without requiring any user interaction.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nUsed on over 100 million sites, Akismet works continuously in the background without slowing down your site, and it boasts a 99.99% accuracy rate.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"7-focus-on benefits\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">7. Focus on&nbsp;benefits</h2>\n\n\nThough mentioned in passing in a few of the points previously, prioritizing benefits warrants its own item on this list. It can’t be overstated how important focusing on benefits of your product or service is — especially in contrast to just listing features.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nBenefits explain how the features improve your customer’s life, solve their problems, or fulfill their needs. A list of features doesn’t do any of this, as it doesn’t offer the “why”. A benefits-focus, however, is compelling and relatable.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIf you’re stumped on where to begin with this, try translating each of your product or service’s features into a clear, user-centric benefit.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nFor example, instead of just stating &#8220;Our software has automated reporting&#8221;, you might say, &#8220;Save hours of manual work every week with our software&#8217;s automated reporting. This allows you to focus on the big picture&#8221;.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nEmphasize your unique selling points, too. They should be framed as benefits that set your product apart from the competition. Why is your product the best choice?&nbsp;\n\n\n\nFor instance, if you sell solar panels, you might say, &#8220;Our solar panels are designed to withstand extreme weather conditions, providing reliable energy production year-round.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"8-include-video testimonials\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">8. Include video&nbsp;testimonials</h2>\n\n\nYou can boost landing page conversion rates by incorporating video testimonials into your content as well. These videos act as social proof by showcasing real customers who have benefited from your product or service. When your claims can be backed up by real customers’ words, your USPs become much more convincing.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou’ll need to use real customers in your video testimonials to provide authenticity and relatability. Genuine experiences from actual users are much more convincing than scripted or generic endorsements.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nEncourage those who provide testimonials to be specific and results-oriented in their commentary. Did your product make their workflow more efficient? Did they save money? Be sure the benefits and outcomes are emphasized.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWhile the content of the testimonial is most important, good production quality can enhance the credibility and professionalism of the video as well. Good lighting, clear audio, and a stable camera setup never hurts.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.instrumentl.com/customers\">Instrumentl</a>, a grant finding tool and non-profit, has a dedicated customer stories landing page with video testimonials prominently displayed.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"585\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-4.jpeg\" alt=\"Instrumentl homepage\" class=\"wp-image-284079\" />\n\n\n<h2 id=\"9-highlight-social-proof-to-build credibility\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">9. Highlight social proof to build&nbsp;credibility</h2>\n\nVideo testimonials are an example of social proof, but there’s more to it than just that. Social proof offers a direct way to boost your landing page&#8217;s credibility and encourage conversions. It makes use of the influence of others to validate your product or service. This makes potential customers more likely to trust your brand because they’re hearing from past&nbsp;customers.\n\nCustomer testimonials provide first&#8209;hand accounts of users’ positive experiences with your company. Featuring quotes — written or video — can go a long way to encourage the&nbsp;sale.\n\nIn&#8209;depth case studies are another solid approach here. You can use them to showcase detailed examples of how your product or service has solved specific problems. These narratives often include before&#8209;and&#8209;after scenarios to demonstrate measurable results and concrete&nbsp;benefits.\n\n<h2 id=\"10-use-trust signals\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">10. Use trust&nbsp;signals</h2>\n\n\nTrust signals are little design elements or phrases you can add to your landing page that reassure visitors about the credibility and safety of your business.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can show trust badges and certifications from reputable organizations to further reassure site visitors of your credibility. Things like industry awards and memberships apply here, as do things like a badge stating you’re a <a href=\"https://www.bbb.org/get-accredited\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">BBB Accredited Business</a>.&nbsp;\n\n\nSecurity badges from reputable organizations indicate that your website is safe and secure for transactions, too. Common examples include SSL certificates and <a href=\"https://www.trustedsite.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">TrustedSite</a>. Displaying these badges near forms and payment sections can add that bit of extra reassurance customers need to&nbsp;convert.\n\n\nOther trust signals relate to how you do business. Offering a money-back guarantee can significantly reduce the perceived risk of purchasing your product or service. The same goes for posting clear and fair return and refund policies. Putting these in an accessible location indicates your company is customer-centric and willing to address any issues that arise post-purchase.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nDisplaying user reviews and ratings from third-party sites such as Google, Yelp, or industry-specific review platforms can add a layer of authenticity and trust, too.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can also display client and partner logos on your landing page to serve as quick endorsements.&nbsp;\n\n\nLastly, providing clear and accessible contact information, such as a phone number, email address, and physical address, can increase trust,&nbsp;too.\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.cultureamp.com\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Culture Amp</a> offers a solid example of many of these trust signals in action. They pack in many of them above-the-fold.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"713\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-5.jpeg\" alt=\"CultureAmp homepage\" class=\"wp-image-284080\" />\n\n\nYou can see past client logos, contact information, and ratings on reviews sites at a glance&nbsp;here.\n\n<h2 id=\"11-anticipate-and-address-common objections\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">11. Anticipate and address common&nbsp;objections</h2>\n\n\nHaving a clear idea of where your potential customers are coming from and doing your best to mitigate their concerns can go a long way.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nTo begin, you’ll need to identify the most common objections your potential customers might have. This could include concerns about price, product effectiveness, ease of use, customer support, and return policies. You can reach out to people on social media to ask about their concerns directly to gather this information.&nbsp;\n\n\nThen, you can create an FAQ section to answer the most common objections. That way, when a prospect lands on your site, they’ll have their questions answered without having to contact you. The less effort a potential customer has to put in to come to a purchasing decision, the&nbsp;better.\n\nProviding clear pricing can help, too. There’s nothing worse for a customer than arriving at the checkout screen to realize hidden fees have been added to the purchase&nbsp;price.\n\n<h2 id=\"12-use-clear-calls-to-action cta\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">12. Use clear calls to action&nbsp;(CTA)</h2>\n\n\nA clear and compelling call-to-action is your landing page’s make-or-break moment. It’s the last bit people see before they decide to convert (or not).&nbsp;\n\n\n\nTo make the most of your final push to encourage prospects to become customers, be sure to use strong, action-oriented verbs that clearly tell visitors what they need to do. Phrases like &#8220;Get Started&#8221;, &#8220;Download Now&#8221;, &#8220;Sign Up Today&#8221;, and &#8220;Claim Your Free Trial&#8221; are direct and encourage immediate action.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can also incorporate a sense of urgency into your CTA to prompt visitors to act quickly. Phrases such as &#8220;Limited Time Offer&#8221;, &#8220;Only a Few Left&#8221;, or &#8220;Register Before It’s Too Late&#8221; can create a sense of scarcity and encourage immediate action.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAny CTA you present should stand out visually on the page. Use a contrasting color that draws attention and ensures the button doesn’t blend in with the rest of the content. Make it stand out.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAnd don’t be afraid to include supporting text around your CTA as well. Such text provides additional context and reassurance. For example, adding a short phrase like &#8220;No credit card required&#8221; or &#8220;Free for the first 30 days&#8221; can alleviate concerns and make the offer more enticing.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.dropbox.com\">Dropbox</a> offers a to-the-point CTA that’s upfront and hard to ignore.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"489\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-6.jpeg\" alt=\"Dropbox page with big blue button\" class=\"wp-image-284081\" />\n\n\n\nThe “Find your plan” button sounds non-committal but ultimately a great way to entice people to sign up.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"13-incorporate-directional cues\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">13. Incorporate directional&nbsp;cues</h2>\n\n\nAny visual element that guides a site visitor&#8217;s attention to critical parts of your landing page could be considered a directional cue. Often, you’ll find them pointing to key page elements like the CTA or a contact form.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nArrows are one of the most straightforward and effective directional cues. And by having them point to your CTA, you’re drawing the visitor’s eye to it and making it clear that’s where they should click next.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nSimilarly, lines or pathways can subtly guide the user&#8217;s gaze through the page as well. You want to lead them on a journey that ends with interacting with your CTA.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nBut arrows and lines aren’t the only directional cues you can use. Images of people qualify as well. Photos where the subject within is looking in the direction of your CTA is an effective choice, too. For instance, a photograph of a person looking toward a &#8220;Sign Up&#8221; button can direct people’s attention to that area.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"14-harness-urgency-and scarcity\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">14. Harness urgency and&nbsp;scarcity</h2>\n\n\nAnother way to boost landing page conversion rates is by compelling visitors to act quickly. These psychological triggers leverage the fear of missing out (FOMO), which can be a powerful motivator.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can activate FOMO by making deals available for only a limited time. When a discount or promotion is available for a short period, people may be more likely to act immediately and complete the purchase. You can clearly display the time limit with countdown timers to make the deadline visible and tangible.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAmazon does a good job of this, with their red “Limited time deal” flags on products available at a temporary discount.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"470\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-7.jpeg\" alt=\"Amazon limited time deal red banner\" class=\"wp-image-284082\" />\n\n\n\nIncluding low stock notices on product pages leans into this sense of scarcity as well. Or, you could offer an exclusive deal to a subgroup of your customer base — like email subscribers.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can further add to this sense of urgency and scarcity by adding real-time notifications to your site. These notifications will let customers know how many people are viewing a particular item — or how many of an item is still in stock.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"15-practice-risk reversal\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">15. Practice risk&nbsp;reversal</h2>\n\n\nRisk reversal plays into the trust signals discussed previously, but it warrants its own callout here. This tactic involves offering guarantees or assurances that reduce the perceived risk for potential customers.&nbsp;\n\n\nThe best example of risk reversal in action is offering a money&#8209;back guarantee. This offer assures customers that if they are not satisfied with the product or service, they can get a full refund. And when implemented clearly and well, this can reduce purchase hesitation. State the terms of this guarantee upfront and prominently, such as &#8220;30&#8209;day money&#8209;back guarantee&#8221; or &#8220;Satisfaction guaranteed or your money&nbsp;back&#8221;.\n\nThe same goes for free trials. This offer lets customers try your product or service before committing to a purchase. This is usually a great choice for software products, subscription services, and digital products. To promote this, you might say, &#8220;14&#8209;day free trial with no credit card&nbsp;required.&#8221;\n\nAlong with a money&#8209;back guarantee and a free trial, you could also provide a hassle&#8209;free return and exchange policy as well as warranties, when&nbsp;applicable.\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.warbyparker.com\">Warby Parker</a> has an impressive free trial offer — you can test out five different eye-glasses frames at home without spending a penny.&nbsp;&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"650\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-2.png\" alt=\"Warby Parker landing page\" class=\"wp-image-284083\" />\n\n\n\nThis offer is mentioned above the fold on the homepage, making it tempting to new customers.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"16-make-sure-your-pages-are-responsive-and-mobile optimized\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">16. Make sure your pages are responsive and mobile&nbsp;optimized</h2>\n\n\nIt might sound like a small thing, as it’s an expected part of web design nowadays, but ensuring your landing page is responsive and mobile-optimized is a must, too. Offering a seamless mobile experience for prospective customers improves UX and engagement, which means more conversions for you.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nOn mobile devices, your site should prioritize a clean and straightforward menu structure that’s accessible. A common approach is the &#8220;hamburger&#8221; menu, which expands when tapped. Ensure that key elements like your CTA are prominently displayed and easily accessible without requiring excessive scrolling, too.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nKeep links touch-friendly, too. And before you launch your landing page, be sure to test it across multiple devices and screen sizes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 id=\"17-ensure-your-site-loads-quickly \" class=\"wp-block-heading\">17. Ensure your site loads quickly&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\nPaying attention to loading speeds can help keep your landing page conversion-ready. Pages that are too slow to load can cause visitors to get frustrated and bounce.&nbsp;\n\n\nKnowing this, following best practices for improving site speed is imperative. You’ll want to pay attention to things like compressing images, making use of browser caching, and minimizing HTTP requests. You’ll also need to minify your code and use a CDN to reduce overall latency at the server level. Tools like <a href=\"https://pagespeed.web.dev/\">Google PageSpeed Insights</a> can help you identify and address&nbsp;issues.\n\n<h2 id=\"18-consider-color psychology\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">18. Consider color&nbsp;psychology</h2>\n\n\nAnother way you can improve your landing page conversion rate is by using color psychology. This is a time-honored approach in marketing that can help you effectively influence visitors&#8217; emotions and actions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAccording to <a href=\"https://www.oberlo.com/blog/color-psychology-color-meanings\">Oberlo</a>, here are some colors and their typical psychological associations. This information could help you get a handle on how your color choices can influence the ways customers feel (and act):&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\"><li>Red creates urgency and excitement. It’s a good color for CTA buttons and limited&#8209;time&nbsp;offers.</li>\n\n<li>Blue conveys trust and calmness. This is great for finance, healthcare, and technology&nbsp;brands.</li>\n\n<li>Green is associated with growth and harmony. Green is suitable for environmental products and health&nbsp;brands.</li>\n\n<li>Yellow makes people feel optimistic. It’s effective as an accent color to highlight important&nbsp;information.</li>\n\n<li>Orange conveys a sense of confidence. This is good for CTA buttons and&nbsp;banners.</li>\n\n<li>Purple represents luxury and creativity. Purple is ideal for high&#8209;end and innovative&nbsp;products.</li>\n\n<li>Black conveys sophistication. Black is often used for luxury brands as&nbsp;well.</li>\n\n<li>White symbolizes simplicity. It’s great for backgrounds to create space and&nbsp;clarity.</li></ul>\n\n\nYou’ll want to make use of contrasting colors to make important elements like CTA buttons stand out as&nbsp;well.\n\n<h2 id=\"19-offer comparisons\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">19. Offer&nbsp;comparisons</h2>\n\nIf you are confident in your product or service’s ability to outperform the competition, offering direct comparisons can be a solid selling point. And in doing so, you can highlight your unique advantages and convince potential customers to choose&nbsp;you.\n\nWhile you can simply write up comparisons as body copy, a comparison table can be helpful for those skimming through your landing page for pertinent information. In it, you’ll want to list features, pricing, benefits, and other relevant factors side by side to make it simple for visitors to see where you excel. Ensure that the table is clear, concise, and legible,&nbsp;too.\n\n\nBe honest in your comparisons, however. Highlighting your strengths is essential, but avoid misrepresenting or downplaying competitors if your statements are false.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"20-promote-lead magnets\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">20. Promote lead&nbsp;magnets</h2>\n\n\nOffering a lead magnet is another great way to attract attention and convert prospects into customers. Lead magnets are valuable resources offered for free to visitors in exchange for their contact information, typically an email address.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nOffering any old piece of content for free won’t do, however. A successful lead magnet addresses a specific problem or offers a solution that your audience finds valuable. So long as it achieves this goal, the type of content you offer could be pretty much anything. Popular types of lead magnets include things like eBooks, checklists, access to webinars or workshops, templates, or even free samples.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1600\" height=\"765\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-3.png\" alt=\"WPVIP form with a lead capture\" class=\"wp-image-284084\" />\n\n\n\nWordPress VIP, in exchange for filling out a simple form, offers a 2024 report on how content drives growth. This is a great lead magnet, as it’s directly applicable to the types of enterprise businesses that might use their services.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"21-be-consistent-in-design-and message\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">21. Be consistent in design and&nbsp;message</h2>\n\n\nNo matter your industry, presenting a consistent design and message is another key component for successful landing pages. A clear and consistent brand conveys trust helps with recall..&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIt’s convenient to say “be consistent” but the truth is, you need to approach the design and message with a clear plan — from the start. That means developing comprehensive brand guidelines that outline your brand’s visual and verbal identity.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThese guidelines should include things like how and when your logo should be used (including size, spacing, and color variations), your site’s color palette, the typography used, the types of images (illustrations or photos), and the tone of voice of your content. Once you have these guidelines in place, you can make sure your content adheres to them.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://stripe.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Stripe</a> does a good job of this on its website.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img width=\"1200\" height=\"688\" src=\"https://akismet.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image-8.jpeg\" alt=\"Stripe landing page with a colorful background\" class=\"wp-image-284085\" />\n\n\nIt prioritizes purple and blue colors, dynamic animations, and a confident&nbsp;voice.\n\n<h2 id=\"22-make-accessibility-a priority\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">22. Make accessibility a&nbsp;priority</h2>\n\n\nYou’ll also want to ensure your landing page is accessible to people with disabilities. This isn’t just a legal requirement, but also an essential part of reaching everyone with an optimal user experience.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThere are a few ways to ensure accessibility, including the use of semantic HTML, which provides meaningful markup that helps screen readers and other assistive technologies understand the structure of your content.&nbsp;\n\n\nYou’ll also need to provide text alternatives for images, videos, and audio files. Use alt attributes for images to describe their content. For complex images like charts, provide a detailed description in the surrounding text. And transcribing video and audio content (and offering closed captions for videos) goes a long way,&nbsp;too.\n\nFollowing the <a href=\"https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Web Content Accessibility Guidelines</a> is your best bet for making sure you cover all aspects of web accessibility, from ARIA landmarks to keyboard&nbsp;accessibility\n\n<h2 id=\"23-offer-live-chat-for-personalized assistance\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">23. Offer live chat for personalized&nbsp;assistance</h2>\n\n\nOne way to really make your landing page stand out is to offer live chat. Providing real-time, personalized assistance makes it so you’re addressing customer questions the moment they arise. You can resolve issues and guide visitors through the decision-making process immediately. When you provide timely help like this, you’ll boost conversions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nYou can also use proactive chat invitations to engage visitors who may need assistance but haven’t initiated a chat yet. For example, if someone spends a decent chunk of time on a product page or is about to exit, a chat popup can appear asking if they need help.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nFor instance, if you have a WordPress site, a WooCommerce extension like <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/products/livechat/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">LiveChat for WooCommerce</a> can help you field customer questions in real time in a way that’s integrated with your broader store.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h2 id=\"24-ab test\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">24. A/B&nbsp;test</h2>\n\n\nThe last recommended tactic for improving your landing page conversion rate is to A/B test everything. Split testing involves comparing two versions of your landing page, each with a single element slightly different, to determine which one performs better.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nCommon elements to prioritize in A/B testing include headlines, CTA buttons, image choices, color schemes, copy, and layout variations.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWith your element selected, you can then create two or more variations of the element you want to test. For instance, if you are testing headlines, write multiple versions that highlight different benefits or use different tones. Then, compare them over a set period of time. The one that encourages a better conversion rate is the winner. Then you can move on to test a different element.&nbsp;\n\n\nTo run a test like this, you’ll need to split your website traffic. There are tons of tools out there to facilitate this, including&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.optimizely.com\">Optimizely</a>.\n\n<h2 id=\"frequently-asked questions\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Frequently asked&nbsp;questions</h2>\n\n\nNow that we’ve explored multiple ways to optimize your landing pages and improve their conversion rates, take some time to browse through some frequently asked questions about this process.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-are-the-common-mistakes-to-avoid-when-designing-a-landing page\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What are the common mistakes to avoid when designing a landing&nbsp;page?</h3>\n\nCommon mistakes to avoid when designing a landing page include a cluttered design, an unclear CTA, slow loading times, a lack of mobile optimization, and not addressing visitor pain points. You’ll need to speak directly to your target audience and provide an accessible and user&#8209;friendly on&#8209;site experience to see improved conversion&nbsp;rates.\n\n<h3 id=\"what-is-a-good-conversion-rate-for-a-landing page\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is a good conversion rate for a landing&nbsp;page?</h3>\n\nA good conversion rate varies by industry. But for landing pages in general, a good conversion rate is 2&#8209;5%. However, top&#8209;performing landing pages can achieve conversion rates of 10% or higher, especially if the industry is very&nbsp;specific.\n\n<h3 id=\"should-i-use-captcha-to-protect-my-form-from spam\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">Should I use CAPTCHA to protect my form from&nbsp;spam?</h3>\n\nWhile CAPTCHA can prevent spam, it can also deter genuine site visitors from converting. So, no, you shouldn’t use CAPTCHA and should opt for an alternative like Akismet. This <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/captcha-alternatives/\">anti&#8209;spam alternative to CAPTCHA</a> offers effective spam protection without compromising the user&nbsp;experience.\n\n<h3 id=\"what-is-akismet-and-how-can-it-improve-my-lead-generation-form-conversion rate\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is Akismet, and how can it improve my lead generation form conversion&nbsp;rate?</h3>\n\nAkismet is a powerful spam&#8209;filtering service that automatically detects and <a href=\"https://akismet.com/features/\">blocks spam submissions</a>. And it doesn’t rely on CAPTCHA to do it. This means users have fewer steps to complete forms, thus improving conversion rates without leading to an increase in&nbsp;spam.\n\n<h3 id=\"what-types-of-companies-generally-use akismet\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What types of companies generally use&nbsp;Akismet?</h3>\n\nAkismet is trusted by over 100 million sites, including enterprise brands like Microsoft, <a href=\"https://akismet.com/blog/convertkit-customerstory/\">ConvertKit</a>, and Bluehost. Akismet provides effective spam protection that doesn’t impede on lead generation efforts, offering a win&#8209;win scenario for companies of all&nbsp;sizes.\n\n<h3 id=\"how-often-should-i-update-or-tweak-my-landing-page-for-optimal performance\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">How often should I update or tweak my landing page for optimal&nbsp;performance?</h3>\n\n\nYou should update or tweak your landing page on a regular basis. Aim to review and make changes to your landing page at least quarterly, or more frequently if you notice a drop in performance metrics or significant changes in user behavior. Keeping an eye on metrics and conducting regular A/B tests can help mitigate sudden increases in bounce rate.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-is-a-lead-magnet-and-how-can-it-boost-my-landing-page conversions\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What is a lead magnet, and how can it boost my landing page&nbsp;conversions?</h3>\n\n\nA lead magnet is a valuable resource offered for free in exchange for contact information. Popular types of lead magnets include eBooks, checklists, and reports. The most effective lead magnets attract and convert visitors by providing immediate value. This then inserts the prospect into your sales funnel, which means they’re primed and ready to make a purchase later.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-are-the-key-metrics-to-track-when-analyzing-landing-page performance\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What are the key metrics to track when analyzing landing page&nbsp;performance?</h3>\n\n\nWhen tracking and analyzing landing page performance, you should keep an eye on its conversion rate, bounce rate, average time on page, click-through rate (CTR), and cost per conversion. Tracking these metrics helps identify areas for improvement and measure the effectiveness of the optimizations you make.&nbsp;\n\n\n<h3 id=\"what-are-some-common-mistakes-to-avoid-when-optimizing-a-landing page\" class=\"wp-block-heading\">What are some common mistakes to avoid when optimizing a landing&nbsp;page?</h3>\n\n\nWhen optimizing a landing page, you’ll want to avoid common mistakes like making too many changes at once, which makes it impossible to see how individual changes are affecting performance.&nbsp;\n\n\nAnother mistake is ignoring mobile visitors. Any landing page created in 2024 should be optimized for mobile interaction by default. Also, not aligning the page with user intent or addressing customer pain points are big&nbsp;issues.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Jen Swisher\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:16;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:99:\"Do The Woo Community: Bridging Art and Blockchain, Bringing Certification to Woo with Robert Norton\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84943\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:97:\"https://dothewoo.io/bridging-art-and-blockchain-bringing-certification-to-woo-with-robert-norton/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38912:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-27 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-26 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-5 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-23 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-9 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-22 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, Omnisend is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-6 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-25 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-11 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-24 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1224\" height=\"1224\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Hostinger_Vertical_Purple-e1668465093968.jpg?resize=1224%2C1224&ssl=1\" alt=\"Hostinger\" class=\"wp-image-73505\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://hostinger.com\">Hostinger</a>: As a builder or an agency managing multiple sites, check out Hostinger. Whether you are building a WordPress site or specifically, a Woo store, their infrastructure brings your clients sites speed, uptime and security.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nDave: Welcome to this episode of Do the Woo. We&#8217;re talking Emerging Tech, and today we&#8217;re talking with Robert Norton from Verisart. Hi Robert, how are you doing?\n\n\n\nRobert: Good. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on the show.\n\n\n\nDave: No worries. And I should probably say I&#8217;m your host, Dave Lockie as well. So I guess a bit about you, Robert. You&#8217;re the CEO and founder of Verisart. What came before that and what&#8217;s your journey been like as an entrepreneur?\n\n\n\nRobert: For the last 15 years, I found myself at the intersection of art and tech. Prior to Verisart, which is a platform that started doing blockchain certification for the art and collectibles market, I was running a company called Sedition Art, which was, in a way, one of the first platforms that sold digital limited editions by well-known artists. Now, of course, we come to know digital limited editions as non-fungible tokens and NFTs, which I know we&#8217;re going to get into later. But it was my time at Sedition between 2010 to 2013 that really got me thinking about how artists can find new audiences in other mediums. The principal medium of most of the artists we worked with at Sedition was physical, not digital. Prior to that, I was the founder and CEO of Saatchi Art, previously known as Saatchi Online. We turned it into an e-commerce enabled platform where artists who didn&#8217;t have any gallery representation could have a platform to show their work and sell directly to consumers. So, we did a lot of that heavy lifting for them. In some ways, it&#8217;s analogous perhaps to Etsy, but with more focus on independent working artists.\n\n\n\nI guess why did I end up in this sort of strange intersection? Probably because, in the back of my mind, I wanted to do something in the art world. Both my parents did art degrees, my grandfather was a restorer, so I grew up in a household where the idea of unauthorized or authorized reproductions was quite prevalent. You&#8217;d often see, in the case of 19th-century works, studios like Joshua Reynolds would have many works of the same coming from the studio, some of which just worked on by his studio, some of which he worked on in parts, and some of which he worked on entirely. This area of multiples was really interesting to me. The aha moment with Verisart was looking at the case of the Knoedler Gallery, which came to the press around 2015. One of the oldest galleries in New York was found guilty of selling fake Rothkos, a well-known post-war artist in the states, selling these works by the dozen in modern times, in 2015. It wasn&#8217;t just unwitting people that should know better, but people like the chairman of Sotheby&#8217;s themselves. I was thinking this is a real problem when you have such trust in authorities that are clearly not able to be trusted. I thought about how to improve trust with the advent of distributed ledger technology. We&#8217;ve been tackling that problem now for almost 10 years.\n\n\n\nTo give you a little insight before that, I started my career back in &#8217;95 at America Online, initially in business development, then running e-commerce, and then did a bunch of startups from health to games. I was the person that launched King.com in North America. So, I was the first managing director for King.com in North America. My whole career has been in consumer-facing e-commerce, as I would describe it. While we&#8217;re not a marketplace at Verisart, we do help people with their drops and their releases. We&#8217;ve now started offering a token gate app print service, which takes us closer to revenue-generating opportunities for artists as well.\n\n\n\nDave: Amazing. What strikes me about your founding story is that this was not just a love of art, but a very personal relationship with art. It was all around you, with artists and with people who were trying to make a living with art, the artists themselves, the people around that industry, the restorers, the galleries, the marketplaces. This is obviously a very deeply connected and personal mission for you.\n\n\n\nRobert: I think Steve Jobs said, you can connect the dots looking backwards, but you don&#8217;t necessarily connect them moving forwards. I didn&#8217;t necessarily feel it as personally, but now I think it makes sense. My wife also has a gallery that we work with, and I met my wife through my interest in art. So, I guess we&#8217;re very much an art family at this point. But really, it was the advent of blockchain technology that inspired me to do this business. One of the artists we worked with at my former company, Sedition Art, is Casey Reas. Casey is also the co-inventor, along with Ben Fry, of a language called Processing, which enabled artists to generate their digital art with a rules-based programming language. It was Casey who wrote to me in 2014 and said, &#8220;Hey Robert, looking at what you&#8217;re doing at Saatchi Online and Sedition Art, I think this technology has real potential for certification of verification purposes, both for physical and digital art.&#8221; That got me thinking about how blockchains work, mechanisms to trust a timeline, and commitments to that timeline. It felt like a good application for some of the problems we were facing with our provenance certification. In a nutshell, we were taking the certificate, typically issued by some sort of authority, maybe an estate, studio, or gallery, and the provenance, which is another fancy word for the story—the agreed story around the history of that object. That may include exhibition literature as well. We were taking the registry—who&#8217;s ultimately responsible—and binding the certificate, provenance, and registry together by shared distributed ledger technology standards. I think it makes for a stronger provenance. That&#8217;s what we&#8217;ve been doing at Verisart.\n\n\n\nDave: Yeah, really interesting. Maybe you could talk to us about what that journey&#8217;s looked like. Has it been one with a lot of pivoting, large or small, or has it been more a case of feeling like you&#8217;ve got the right solution, but the job is to educate, make aware, and onboard? How would you describe that 10 years?\n\n\n\nRobert: Ten years ago, a small percentage of households owned crypto, and now we&#8217;re well into double digits, depending on certain age groups. I think it&#8217;s up to 40% in some age groups. As a whole, it&#8217;s about 20% or so of households in the US that now own crypto in one form or another. We&#8217;ve come a long way, and sometimes people talk about the number of households that own crypto paralleling the growth in the number of households that went online in the early days of internet service providers and online services. Whether those correlate correctly, the point is that we&#8217;ve grown from a very small base to something that feels closer to mainstream, although it&#8217;s not yet at mainstream levels of adoption. We&#8217;re not past a 50% threshold in most markets, except for a few perhaps like El Salvador, where Bitcoin&#8217;s become an alternative national currency.\n\n\n\nIf I could characterize what it was like in 2014, I was at this Scaling Bitcoin conference at Stanford University. There were literally probably about 200 people in the community that then went on to build aspects of the blockchain infrastructure we&#8217;re familiar with today. That was probably the size of the industry for well-known players at that point. It was very small, and even at conferences, you would struggle to get more than a thousand people to show up. Now we&#8217;ve got huge conferences from DeFi to NFTs to staking, to wallet providers, new L1s, which is layer one blockchains, new roll-ups, and L2s. The industry has really evolved. Back in 2014, 2015, I spent most of my time explaining what a blockchain was and why the words art and blockchain were in the same sentence. Now, because of the NFT boom and bust we witnessed in 2021, no one really questions why the words art and blockchain go together.\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;ve come a long way in terms of people&#8217;s understanding of what this technology can do, but we&#8217;re still set back by the early years in terms of the bad actors in the space. We&#8217;ve seen arrests of the principals of FTX and Binance, and bad actors erode consumer trust. That&#8217;s very unhelpful when you&#8217;re trying to bring new technologies to market. In some ways, it was like two steps forward, one step back, but we&#8217;ve really come a long way over the last 10 years. As a result, we can start focusing more on the applications and less on explaining what&#8217;s beneath the hood.\n\n\n\nDave: And I think because there&#8217;s such a visual representation—maybe the only visual representation of crypto technology that most people can find—it has that artistic element to it. There have been a lot of bad actors, and the worlds where art and finance meet are often murky and gray anyway. When you accelerate that with the petrol of the internet, there have been a lot of problematic NFT projects. I can imagine that&#8217;s been particularly challenging for you. You&#8217;re certainly right, there are lots of data points, but the trend line is increasing adoption, increasing awareness. Now you mentioned this idea about mainstream, and one of the conversations I hear in crypto is that crypto will be mainstream when people are using it without knowing that it&#8217;s crypto. I noticed that at Verisart you take a very deliberately technology-inclusive approach to describing what you do. How often do you find yourself in a situation where you&#8217;re trying to explain Verisart to somebody who is utterly naive and ignorant to crypto and blockchain? Do you ever find success in converting those merchants or artists, or is this always a more progressive and educational sell where they have to get some foundations before they can see the value in what you do?\n\n\n\nRobert: We&#8217;ve got a good history of working with artists, and we were one of the first external curators on SuperRare, which is a well-known premium platform for unique digital artwork. So one-of-ones is what they&#8217;re often referred to\n\n\n\n. Back in 2021, because of my time at Sedition, where we worked with many well-known artists from Damien Hirst to Bill Viola to Tracey Emin and Shepard Fairey, Christian Boltanski, Yoko Ono, we probably worked with a hundred of the world&#8217;s top contemporary artists during my time at Sedition. It&#8217;s still continuing to this day. That experience of speaking to an artist and understanding what they want to release as a digital edition, can we help them, have they got the facilities to do it in-house themselves—this discussion was more complex during the NFT boom and bust because there were things like needing a wallet, a smart contract, and deciding under which smart contract to mint. But we were able to have those discussions because we understood the issues ourselves. We&#8217;ve done a huge number of inaugural artists&#8217; NFTs. Whether it&#8217;s Roe Ethridge, William Wegman, Shepard Fairey, Petra Cortright, or Neil Beloufa, a lot of well-known artists&#8217; inaugural NFTs. They came to us because they were somewhat confused by this landscape and they wanted somebody they could trust to guide them through the process. We did two drops with SuperRare, 10 by 10 and 8 by 8, focused on inaugural artists&#8217; NFTs. We also did Artsy&#8217;s first NFT drop in early 2022, which included 22 artists. So, we&#8217;re absolutely in the business of handholding.\n\n\n\nWhen it comes to looking for our audience and the actual users of our service—the SaaS users or the people that are subscribed to our software—we&#8217;ve found it&#8217;s very hard work dragging someone along to the drinking trough. It&#8217;s better if they&#8217;re already there by the waterside and you can perhaps help them more effectively. We&#8217;re not so much in the business of telling people they need to use blockchain technology, but more in the business of explaining how we can provide a good service for people who are already looking in that area.\n\n\n\nDave: Cool. Yeah, that makes sense. As a small business, you have to focus on what&#8217;s achievable within your resources and timescales. I&#8217;m sure a lot of the awareness work you&#8217;re doing is going to have a knock-on effect further down into the future, but you certainly have to be judicious with the way you&#8217;re putting that target of energy. One thing I think about quite a lot, and this is with NFTs generally, not just art-based NFTs—of course, there&#8217;s some philosophical conversation about what is and isn&#8217;t art—whenever you use a new medium or format for art, it brings new constraints and opportunities creatively. With digital, it allowed for, for example, algorithmic generative art. However, then when you take digital art and put it on-chain, that also changes the format and the medium. What I&#8217;m thinking about here is the public nature of interaction with that art—who minted it, who collected it, has it been sold on secondary, what&#8217;s the price trend, all of that. My question is, to what extent is that interesting and exciting and offering new opportunities to artists where they may have had glimpses of that historically, seeing their art for sale or auction or whatever, but now they have this opportunity to be directly in communication with people that hold their art because if you both have wallets, there are plenty of ways to contact each other.\n\n\n\nRobert: There&#8217;s a lot to unpack there. The first is, obviously, art is now as easily tradable an asset as an NFT, as the fungible token—Ethereum, Bitcoin, Solana, or Tezos. These chains are in the business of minting coins and having people speculate on the value of those coins and the value those networks will accumulate. Remember, they all sit within the same type of wallets. That was never the case with art before. You had a painting, it may have been an asset, but it didn&#8217;t sit within your bank account, and you could trade it like you could trade pounds, dollars, or euros. You&#8217;re absolutely right to bring that up first. What the blockchain did, and particularly NFTs, is it basically meant that all the digital art released as NFTs were now effectively like financial instruments. That&#8217;s why you suddenly saw crazy amounts of speculation and wash trading, and activities that created these elevated floor prices for works that were sold or given away. The use of CryptoPunks or Bored Apes in these 10K drops became the symbol of the height of the market, where algorithms were spinning out 10,000 different variations of a theme. They were sorted by traits—certain rare backgrounds, shapes on their heads, laser eyes, etc. Artists started to use traits around art, and it became very confusing for a lot of people to determine what is art and what is just PFP—a personal profile picture. Some of these also became very valuable assets like the Punks and Apes.\n\n\n\nI think that&#8217;s all now beginning to shake out. The challenges for artists probably outweigh the opportunities because artists get exhausted by having to maintain a constant dialogue with their community. The community can turn on them if the financial returns go down. It puts a lot of pressure and stress on the artists. Traditionally, artists have had dealers to remove some of their need to be there talking to their collectors. Healthy, protective art communities exist. The Art Blocks community, which we work with closely, and the generative art community are small and protective of one another. That&#8217;s a good example of a healthier discourse, but it&#8217;s not completely removed from those who just want to speculate on digital art as an asset and feel disappointed when prices don&#8217;t go their way.\n\n\n\nThe first thing is that art is now more of a tradable instrument than it was. It attracts speculators, and speculators outweigh collectors. We&#8217;ve seen that with the rise of marketplaces that don&#8217;t enforce artist royalties. That&#8217;s symptomatic of more speculators than collectors still in the market. We&#8217;re currently doing a show at Gazelli Art House called &#8220;Awaken and Metamagical Hands,&#8221; which includes pioneers like John Maeda, Golan Levin, Joshua Davis, and Leah, as well as younger artists like Robbie Barrat and Lauren Lee McCarthy. All these artists could have solo shows themselves, but they&#8217;re still trying to understand the role of algorithms in their relationship to others or even to themselves. Lauren Lee McCarthy, a professor at UCLA and the Design Media and Arts lab along with Casey Reas, has created an installation called &#8220;Saliva Exchange,&#8221; where people can come in and spit in a vial, write a few things about their saliva, and share it with someone else. It&#8217;s a conceptual piece addressing questions around the way algorithms are based in life and how that changes our interactions and notions of modern-day intimacy.\n\n\n\nDifferent artists are exploring different digital trends—some using midjourney or OpenAI algorithms for generative video and art, others building their own software, and others focusing on conceptual fields. It&#8217;s an interesting time. However, the principal responsibility of an artist is to create art, not to pump their communities. Those artists who shot to fame by pumping their communities may not be the ones that last from a museum or historical standpoint.\n\n\n\nDave: Yeah, interesting. Digital and blockchain art has been extremely disruptive, and that disruption continues. There are some emerging trends—very art-focused communities that are positive and nurturing, and people pushing the boundaries of generative and on-chain art. There&#8217;s still a lot more emergence to happen. Let&#8217;s switch gears a bit. We&#8217;ve mainly talked about art and blockchain so far. I&#8217;d like to bring this back down to earth for a Woo audience. We may have merchants listening who are selling art or interested in how they can use NFTs to enhance what they&#8217;re doing with e-commerce. We almost certainly have agency folks who would love to get their teams working with some of these technologies. They&#8217;re thinking about which of their clients might want to use this technology, what success looks like, etc. We talked about art being wrapped in these digital tokens. Digital assets are tokenized and put into common digital wallets. This extends to real-world assets as well—cases of wine, physical artwork, fractions of an old Mercedes, etc. If you&#8217;re just issuing NFTs and transacting on-chain, you don&#8217;t need a traditional e-commerce setup because you can do this through marketplaces. The whole idea is that you don&#8217;t need fulfillment because it&#8217;s all digital. You don&#8217;t need a traditional payment processor and checkout because it&#8217;s all based on wallet signatures and digital asset transfers. Yet, there is a lot of e-commerce happening where you do need e-commerce—you need to take delivery, accept orders, worry about tax and payments, and everything else. Where do those two worlds intersect? What does a merchant or a success story look like where you get those two things? Verisart operates in both purely digital and intersectional worlds through integrations with WooCommerce and Shopify.\n\n\n\nRobert: It&#8217;s super helpful when the certification is happening at the time of sale because otherwise, if you&#8217;re creating certificates on Verisart.com and doing your sale through some other mechanism, there&#8217;s always going to be a lag between the sale, the invoice happening on some platform—whether it&#8217;s your own, a third-party marketplace, or offline. We&#8217;ve always felt it&#8217;s helpful to close that gap in time for the certification at the time of transaction. With NFTs, you can mint and list the NFT later, but mostly people mint and sell the NFT at the same time. In the early years of Verisart, when we didn&#8217;t have any e-commerce integrations, people used us, but we didn&#8217;t see enough transfers of the certificates. We wanted to make that easier for people. About five years ago, we did our first app with Shopify. We&#8217;re super happy to have launched our WooCommerce app this year. We&#8217;ve learned a lot from our time on the other marketplace platform in terms of building a good app from day one with the WooCommerce audience. Our app allows people to certify products, whether physical or digital. We support minting NFTs or tokens. One thing we don&#8217;t support is fractions of an object because once you start offering fractions, you&#8217;re into the world of securities regulation, which we stay well clear of. Also, fractionalizing an artwork isn&#8217;t necessarily where there&#8217;s real demand for fractionalized opportunities. Fractionalizing businesses that provide you a yield or return that can be valued is more of an obvious first spot than fractionalizing an artwork because there often isn&#8217;t consensus around the price for unique artworks.\n\n\n\nFor WooCommerce merchants, we&#8217;ve seen a big trend in collectibles and a broader definition of luxury. If you thought about luxury historically, you might think of handbags, cars, and rings, but not hoodies and sneakers. But clearly, that is part of modern-day luxury. On Verisart, if you&#8217;ve got a collectible with an authority like a living creator or a trusted business, that&#8217;s a good opportunity to improve your current certificate of authenticity with digital certification branded by your store that can be verified by new owners in real time. That&#8217;s the core of our business. We have lots of different types of businesses using our certification—from custom champagne bottles to special golf clubs to digital prints and photography.\n\n\n\nA good example is Johnny Depp. He built a community of NFT holders and sold those NFTs through a native Web3 drop. He then wanted to give something back to those NFT holders—allowing them to have a print of their NFT. These NFTs are part of his artwork, his friends, and they look like pop-up images. There&#8217;s a need for orders, and there&#8217;s a lag between placing the order and receiving the purchase. You get out-of-the-box order management and porting. In his case, he spun up a Shopify store and used Verisart to certify his prints. When you think about merchant needs, whether they&#8217;re Web2 or Web3, Verisart helps with certifying products, physical or digital, and minting NFTs. We&#8217;ve come a long way in giving people the tooling to build their own Web3 marketplaces if they want to. Merchants that already have a significant presence through their own website might also be on Amazon. You might have a merchant with its own domain using WooCommerce but also selling on Amazon. It&#8217;s helpful to have your own URL for those digital assets to live alongside physical ones because increasingly, they have a relationship. You buy a physical asset, maybe it grants you a token, which is a form of membership. Now you are closer to that artist&#8217;s world. You might give away that token for free. We support buying a token that allows you access to purchase a print or exclusive product at a reduced cost or ahead of others. There are a lot of ways digital and physical can complement each other. Artists are experimenting with these two mediums and offering experiences together. For example, the show we&#8217;re co-curating at Gazelli Art House in London has artists using Verisart to certify their prints, and the prints are certified as NFTs. We&#8217;re constantly looking for better ways to provide merchants and creators with tools for certifying their objects, whether physical, digital, or mapping the relationship between the two.\n\n\n\nDave: I guess there&#8217;s a double-edged sword of this potentially being a tool artists can use to build and engage with their community, but not all artists. There&#8217;s nuance and unpacking to do around that for individual artists as they try to get that balance right. One thing you hinted at is that you might buy the digital token first, which gives you the right to buy a physical print or redeem it for some sort of experience later on. That fundamentally changes how art can be paid for. Instead of the artist creating art and hoping they can sell it, they can pre-sell it or fund the collection through pre-selling. Is that what the CryptoVenetians did?\n\n\n\nRobert: Yeah, we work with Bright Moments. We did the finale with them in Venice earlier this year. That&#8217;s exactly what we did. We had a poster only available to the holders of tokens from that last city, which was a thousand tokens minted during Venice, Italy, just after the Biennale this year.\n\n\n\nDave: That was such a good documentary. I can&#8217;t find it online yet, but I watched it at a screening. It was really good fun, very heartwarming. I&#8217;ve got two more questions for you, one a bit of a double-barrel. What&#8217;s the difference between a receipt and a certificate of authenticity? They both have similar attributes, right? A receipt can improve the secondary resale value of something. It has some element of proof of authenticity. I think it&#8217;s stupid we haven&#8217;t created digital infrastructure for receipts. We can spend, but we don&#8217;t get digital receipts back automatically. For example, the best way to know how healthy you&#8217;re eating is to analyze all the receipts you get from takeaways and supermarket shops. What&#8217;s the difference between a receipt and a certificate of authenticity, both in terms of the nature and what that offers in onward value?\n\n\n\nRobert: In the case of token-gated prints, we incorporate the order number as part of the certificate of authenticity and the token ID used along with that order number. We have patents at Verisart for handling certification. On one end, you&#8217;ve got an unverified record, where I&#8217;ve said something about an object, but no one knows who I am or if what I&#8217;ve said is true or false. It&#8217;s the lowest amount of waiting. Then we have an issuer certificate, similar to a receipt. The retailer of the object says that this thing is true. When you&#8217;ve got an artwork where the retailer is not the creator, the certificate of authenticity is where the creator has authorized that statement. Finally, we have a certificate of authenticity plus, where there&#8217;s a physical identifier on the work like a QR tag or an NFC tag.\n\n\n\nThe core part of Verisart is that the certification can change state depending on the consensus, most importantly the creator. The problem in the past has been that the receipt is often the last thing the creator hears about. The collector gets it, but the creator might be told, &#8220;Oh, that receipt didn&#8217;t quite happen until maybe a year later, so we don&#8217;t owe you any money.&#8221; Verisart puts the creator more in control because they know when their certificates are transferred, there is a transaction out there. That&#8217;s helpful from a creator perspective. While there are similarities between receipts and certificates of authenticity, they are fundamentally different. Receipts require the issuer to be present in the future, and the issuer must remain trustworthy. One of the inspirations for Verisart was that issuers of these receipts were actually sending out fake works. The receipt was fine, but what it pointed to was fake. There are still challenges in the Web3 world with how NFTs have been construed. Transactions are correct, but what they point to may be incorrect. Verisart is actively trying to address this by building more trust at the time of transaction and ensuring the creator is present in terms of their authentication of the work.\n\n\n\nNFTs as COAs is interesting because even if Verisart goes away, you&#8217;ve got an on-chain record that Verisart verified and can go along with the transaction. It future-proofs your investment when those intermediaries are no longer around. A lot of merchants don&#8217;t make it past 10, 20 years, so who will determine whether that receipt is valid if the merchant can&#8217;t authorize it?\n\n\n\nDave: Yeah, interesting. Last question, around NFT market sentiment. We went through a big boom cycle. NFTs alongside DeFi were one of the two big trends driving a lot of narrative, volumes, and arguably innovation in crypto last cycle. This cycle, while we&#8217;ve seen some things emerge and become clearer, we&#8217;ve also seen the floor prices drop significantly across many blue-chip NFTs, and there&#8217;s a lot of uncertainty in the market. How do you think about that? You&#8217;re using NFTs very specifically and deliberately, rather than the popular conception of a monkey picture, but nevertheless, the broader context for NFTs must be impactful. Do you think in a year&#8217;s time we&#8217;ll be like &#8220;NFTs are so back,&#8221; or will it continue to be murky for a while longer? How do you see this sentiment resolving?\n\n\n\nRobert: Early internet, we had titles like Director of E-Commerce and Chief Multi-Webmaster. These terms fell by the wayside and became incorporated into tech or marketing. No one thought of online as an option; it became a must. We&#8217;ll get there with tokens and digital assets. The term NFT has been tarnished, and even Web3 has become caught up in that. When people used Facebook, they didn&#8217;t think they were on a Web2 platform; they just had a better online experience. I think we&#8217;ll get there with Web3 as well. Having a token will allow you to move more seamlessly between platforms, making the experience of being in a community or having a loyalty scheme smoother. We&#8217;re at the early stages of building that infrastructure. From an authentication standpoint, it makes sense. Token gating was complicated, but now a token allows you to do things more fluidly. Digital assets are here to stay. The language is still up in the air, whether we&#8217;ll use the term NFT in five years or just digital art or digital assets.\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;re still big believers. It&#8217;s been a rough ride, and floor prices have dropped, but there&#8217;s a more mature understanding of the market now. Some NFTs are surpassing their auction highs from the height of the market, particularly those artists who have crossed over into the fine art community. Generative art is here to stay, and tokens among merchants are becoming more common. We&#8217;d love your merchants to try our app on the WooCommerce store and get in touch with us directly. We do custom development for merchants but also put as much in our core product as possible. Right now, on WooCommerce, we support minting and certification. We&#8217;ll be adding additional functionality as the app evolves.\n\n\n\nDave: Perfect. Thank you for letting people know where they can get ahold of you. Last question: as someone with insight into the brave new world of luxury consumerism, what&#8217;s the most unexpected luxury thing you&#8217;ve had a certificate of authentication for through Verisart?\n\n\n\nRobert: We have two things that were surprising. One is a very high-end watchmaker based in the Middle East. These watches are real works of art, costing more than most works of art, starting at $50,000. That was unusual for me to see such a high\n\n\n\n-end product being certified on Verisart. The other is amazing calligraphy designs, carved in wood and highly intricate, also from that part of the world. We also have a Maori arts collective doing art from New Zealand. That&#8217;s the great thing about my job—we&#8217;re always seeing new ways creators and merchants find to certify their creations.\n\n\n\nDave: It must be wonderful to live at that intersection between technology and art. It&#8217;s been wonderful talking to you, Robert. I&#8217;m very grateful for your time and insights.\n\n\n\nRobert: Likewise. Thank you for having me on your show.\n\n\n\nDave: Take care.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Emerging Tech, All Things WordPress and WooCommerce, host Dave Lockie dives into the intersection of art and technology with Robert Norton, the CEO and founder of Verisart. \n\n\n\nNorton shares his journey from leading Sedition Art and Saatchi Art to pioneering blockchain certification for the art and collectibles market with Verisart. The discussion explores how blockchain technology enhances trust and authenticity in the art world, the impact of NFTs, and the evolving landscape of digital and physical art. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nIntersection of Art and Technology: Robert Norton&#8217;s journey has placed him at the crossroads of art and technology, leading to the creation of platforms like Sedition Art and Verisart.\n\n\n\nBlockchain for Art Authentication: Verisart leverages blockchain technology to enhance trust and authenticity in the art and collectibles market, addressing problems such as forgery and lack of transparency.\n\n\n\nEvolution of NFTs: Norton discusses how digital limited editions have evolved into non-fungible tokens (NFTs), and the implications for artists and the art market.\n\n\n\nImportance of Provenance: The concept of provenance, or the history and story of an artwork, is crucial. Verisart binds certificates, provenance, and registries together using distributed ledger technology.\n\n\n\nMarket Sentiment and Challenges: Despite the volatility and speculative nature of the NFT market, there is growing understanding and adoption of digital assets.\n\n\n\nMerchants and Certification: Verisart&#8217;s integration with WooCommerce helps merchants certify both physical and digital products, enhancing trust and value.\n\n\n\nArtist Engagement: NFTs and blockchain technology offer new opportunities for artists to engage directly with their collectors, although it can also bring challenges such as community management and market pressure.\n\n\n\nInnovative Use Cases: From high-end watches to intricate calligraphy, Verisart is being used to certify a wide range of luxury and collectible items, showcasing the versatility of blockchain technology.\n\n\n\nFuture of Digital Assets: The conversation hints at a future where digital assets and tokens are seamlessly integrated into everyday transactions, moving beyond the hype of NFTs to practical applications.\n\n\n\nPersonal Connection to Art: Norton&#8217;s personal background and passion for art, influenced by his family&#8217;s involvement in the art world, drive his mission to improve the authenticity and trustworthiness of art transactions.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/products/verisart/\">Verisart for WooCommerce</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://verisart.com/\">Verisart.com</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/rlnorton/\">Robert on LinkedIn</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 31 Jul 2024 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:17;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:83:\"Do The Woo Community: Onboarding for Freelance and Shop Owners with Laura Elizabeth\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84932\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"https://dothewoo.io/onboarding-for-freelance-and-shop-owners-with-laura-elizabeth/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:54597:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-34 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-33 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-30 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-13 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-29 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"525\" height=\"525\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Airwallex.jpg?resize=525%2C525&ssl=1\" alt=\"Airwallex\" class=\"wp-image-80258\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://www.airwallex.com/integrations/woocommerce?utm_source=701Nn000009vJ0mIAE\">Airwallex</a>: With Airwallex merchants are no longer forced to convert their foreign incoming payments into their home market currencies and they can use the funds to pay suppliers internationally.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-8 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-32 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-15 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-31 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, Omnisend is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nKatie: Hello and welcome to Biz Chat at Do the Woo. I&#8217;m Katie Keith from Barn2 Plugins, and today we&#8217;re going to be talking about onboarding, whether you are a freelancer wanting to improve the onboarding for new clients or whether you are an e-commerce store owner, needing to onboard customers who buy your products. To help us with this, we&#8217;ve got special guest Laura Elizabeth. Welcome, Laura.\n\n\n\nLaura: Hi. Thank you so much for having me.\n\n\n\nKatie: So can you tell us a bit about yourself and what you do to start?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, sure. So as of right now, I have a WordPress plugin called Client Portal, but my background is actually in web design. I worked at an agency for a year or so and then I branched out and did freelancing for about 10 years. Client Portal was made out of the work I was doing with my freelancing clients. So it was sort of like a mix between a project management tool and really having nothing at all. I started that back in 2016. I still take on the occasional freelancing project, but it&#8217;s pretty rare these days.\n\n\n\nKatie: And tell us about onboarding. Why do you think it&#8217;s so important and what got you into that as an area particularly?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, I&#8217;ve always loved what onboarding can do for you. I was quite insecure back when I was a freelancer and I felt that having a really good onboarding process really set the stage for how the project was going to go. You can make it really repeatable and reuse it with all your clients. It just helped me because I didn&#8217;t want to go into the full agency route. I wanted to stay just as a solo freelancer. It helped me juggle multiple clients. If I had a really solid onboarding process in place, it helped my clients trust me a little bit more. When you start a project with somebody, really the beginning sets the tone for how everything&#8217;s going to go. So if I had a really solid onboarding process, it just started the project off, and by having a system in place, things started going a lot more smoothly. My clients were happier, I was happier. It just worked out a lot better.\n\n\n\nKatie: That makes a lot of sense because when people hire a freelancer or even an agency for their website, they&#8217;ve made the decision based on lots of things like your portfolio, the quality of your website, possibly a recommendation. But ultimately, it&#8217;s not like hiring a doctor where there&#8217;s a specific qualification. You have to prove your credibility in the early stages of the project. And I suppose if you&#8217;re kind of all over the place at the beginning and you&#8217;re not providing clear onboarding, then that might make them doubt the decision they&#8217;ve made to hire you.\n\n\n\nLaura: I even find that now. So now I&#8217;m more on the other side of things where I&#8217;m the client and I hire freelancers. It really does make such a difference if I hire someone and I can see they&#8217;ve got some kind of process in place. It doesn&#8217;t need to be elaborate, but if they have things they can give me where they tell me how they work, answer maybe commonly asked questions, or things like that, it just feels like they&#8217;ve done this before. Nobody wants to feel like a guinea pig or a test subject when you&#8217;re doing a client project. If I&#8217;m hiring someone, I want to feel like they do this all the time, they know how to handle the entire project no matter what it is. It could be a website project, it could be consulting, marketing, whatever. I just feel like onboarding throughout the course of the project really helps gain that trust and it just sets the whole project off from the start.\n\n\n\nKatie: Since we are talking about the freelancer and agency side of onboarding, let&#8217;s focus on that a bit more first, and then later on we can talk about onboarding for e-commerce store owners. So can you walk me through an optimal onboarding experience for a new client project? What should that include?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, so it kind of starts slightly before the onboarding when you are qualifying the client. I like to put quite a lot of effort into qualifying my clients because I&#8217;m sure everyone&#8217;s experienced this: you get on calls with a potential client, you give them a ton of advice, things are going really well, and then you send your proposal and they say, &#8220;Oh wait, I have a budget of $500.&#8221; And it&#8217;s just completely wasted. I feel like everyone has to learn that the hard way. So it starts with qualifying the client, and you can do that with things like intake questionnaires, the discovery call, the proposal. I actually did a lot of paid discovery sessions with my clients. I was doing it before a website redesign project. So, paid discovery is where you do essentially the whole proposal stage as a productized service. So your clients will pay you to do a proposal, which might sound a little crazy because you can imagine what client would want to pay for a proposal. But it&#8217;s kind of a consulting thing. You work with them to figure out everything they need in their business, you deliver them a report where they can take it, implement it themselves, get someone else to do it, or ideally get you to do it.\n\n\n\nI found that had a ton of benefits overall, both for me and my clients, but specifically with the onboarding, it really helped because almost every client went through that same process. So it was really easy for me to create reusable assets that I would use with them. I would have a VA who would help me send the right things at the right time. It would be things like a contract, like an NDA or something like that, and then we would send different questionnaires for their business, gathering all the data, send them a getting started guide, what to expect, the payment, everything was a lot more automated. So I always think with onboarding, if you can have some kind of fixed scope project that you do at the start, it makes your job a lot easier. But even if you can&#8217;t do that, what I tend to recommend is there&#8217;s no one size fits all with onboarding. It&#8217;s really a case of laying out your process and figuring out what your client needs, what problems your clients tend to have.\n\n\n\nA lot of people have issues with clients maybe micromanaging projects or scope creep or things like that that crop up during the project. Are there ways in your onboarding to help solve those? So could you say something like, it&#8217;s quite likely with big custom projects that the scope is going to change? That&#8217;s absolutely fine and we expect that. Here&#8217;s how that will work. And that&#8217;s just an example of something you could include in your onboarding to help you later down the road. I know for me, scope creep was a particularly difficult one, but I also liked to set them up in a system where they could access everything at one time, and this is kind of where Client Portal came about. I tried onboarding them into different project management tools and I would find that they were really useful for me, particularly if I was working with contractors on their project or if you&#8217;re an agency, project management tools are pretty great. But then when I&#8217;d add my client to it, they didn&#8217;t want to learn a new system, they didn&#8217;t use it, they didn&#8217;t log in. And actually, like I was saying earlier, now I&#8217;m more on the client side. I also hate being added to a project management tool because I don&#8217;t want to change anything or post anything in it because I don&#8217;t want to mess up their already perfect-looking system and I just can&#8217;t be bothered. So you end up resorting back to email.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, I totally agree. I hate it when I hire someone like, I don&#8217;t know, an SEO agency or something like that and they put me on their project management system. There are so many, it&#8217;s probably one I&#8217;ve never used before. I don&#8217;t care what their internal systems are as the client. Things like notifications become a nightmare. You don&#8217;t know how it works. You&#8217;ll ask for an update and they&#8217;ll say, &#8220;Oh, it was on this card here.&#8221; Well, I didn&#8217;t know that. And also, alternatively, you get a notification for everything. And I feel that generally adding clients to your internal project management tool is not in the client&#8217;s interest. So yeah, it&#8217;s good to have an alternative.\n\n\n\nLaura: And you also get that if your team is quite big, your client won&#8217;t really know who they&#8217;re supposed to be talking to. They won&#8217;t know, &#8220;Am I supposed to be replying to this? Are they not?&#8221; It just gets really overwhelming for them. And I&#8217;m similar to you, I hate being added to different project management tools, it&#8217;s just hard. I felt like project management tools weren&#8217;t really working for me. They were working for me internally. I didn&#8217;t want clients to see the kind of things I was talking about with contractors. And I&#8217;ve heard loads of horror stories as well of people who have accidentally posted something that the client can see that they maybe shouldn&#8217;t have posted. Maybe it&#8217;s about the client, I don&#8217;t really know, but there&#8217;s always the risk that&#8217;s going to happen. You&#8217;ll post something that they shouldn&#8217;t see.\n\n\n\nSo I thought, well, I&#8217;m not going to bother adding clients to my project management tool. But then when you take that away, if you have all these onboarding documents that you&#8217;ve created, so these getting started guides, these questionnaires, the contract invoices, whatever it might be, if you take the project management tool away, you don&#8217;t really have anything. So you tend to send these files through email. You have these really long email threads, but that really didn&#8217;t feel polished and professional enough either. And I also had the problem where clients would come back to me and say, &#8220;Where&#8217;s this file? I can&#8217;t find it. I didn&#8217;t save it, blah, blah, blah.&#8221; And that would be really complicated. So I created a portal where they could sign up on my website, log in, and just have everything there available to them. And it was totally separate from the project management tool. So it would only have the very few things\n\n\n\nthat a client actually needs to see and would need to access on a regular basis. And that really helped because it was sort of the middle ground between nothing and a project management tool. And I just created that in WordPress with private pages and all that kind of thing. I did eventually turn it into a product. It can be just something, a private area on your website that they can log into. And I found that was super useful for my clients.\n\n\n\nKatie: Is that more work for the freelancer or agency because they have to populate that with, do they do things like project updates in it or simply the onboarding information?\n\n\n\nLaura: You can do either really. I personally prefer to keep it very simple and repeatable. So I would set up a template and it would have all their onboarding documents that were the same for every single client doing that particular project. So it would be an onboarding template or a project template for a paid discovery, for example. And then I would have a separate one if I was doing a website redesign or I would have a separate one, maybe, I don&#8217;t know, copywriting or whatever services you offer, and you just put in the stuff that is common to pretty much every client as a template. So you don&#8217;t have to recreate all that. And then however you store your deliverables, you would just link to what you&#8217;re already using. So I wouldn&#8217;t spend a lot of time uploading things to the portal. The way I thought of it at the time was like a bookmarks bar that was in a branded portal on your website that your clients could log into. So at the time I was doing websites and I would use Envision for my prototype, so I would just link to Envision. So it didn&#8217;t really take an awful lot of time, but it is something that if you do have a VA, which I pretty much recommend almost all freelancers have one if they can because it just makes life a lot easier. It&#8217;s something that they can just go in and add the odd link to it. But I always recommend keeping it as simple as possible, actually having as little in there as possible, but making sure that what&#8217;s in there are the things that your client needs to access time and time again.\n\n\n\nKatie: That makes sense. So you&#8217;ve referred to VAs a couple of times. It&#8217;s slightly off topic, but virtual assistants can be really useful. Do you have any tips on where to find one? Because a lot of freelancers can&#8217;t afford to hire somebody freelance, and so what are the different ways you can find somebody to help with those tasks?\n\n\n\nLaura: I&#8217;ve hired VAs from a few different places. The best one I had was from a website called Hawkey Handbook. I don&#8217;t actually know if it&#8217;s still around. I haven&#8217;t checked, but I think that&#8217;s what it was called. Gina taught people how to become virtual assistants and then she had a pool of people where you could post a job, and I had a virtual assistant there for years and she was really great. I&#8217;ve also tried hiring just from people I know because they&#8217;re kind of tasks that really anyone can do as long as you&#8217;ve got good processes in place. But yeah, my favorite one was the Hawkey Handbook place where I hired a VA. It can take a little bit of trial and error and hiring a VA is actually a lot of work upfront because if you don&#8217;t have systems and processes and things documented, it takes a long time to get that in place and it can take a long time to train a VA. But once you&#8217;ve found that rhythm and they work with you, they&#8217;re really invaluable, especially when working with clients. Because if you are like me, I was mostly solo but would just work with contractors. It was really hard doing the actual work, which is the bit I loved, and then dealing with new lead inquiries, keeping up to date with current clients, or even following up with leads that didn&#8217;t work out, or doing outreach, all that kind of stuff that you need to do constantly. It just takes that off your plate to have somebody as a middleman managing. For me, it was mostly email and client communication. So yeah, I think VAs are really, really important, but a big investment both time and money upfront.\n\n\n\nKatie: Definitely. I used to use a company called Remote Staff for a VA for years because as a plugin company, I have a support team and one of my support engineers spends half her time doing VA tasks, which might be finance or marketing or general admin or whatever. So I found that good. They were already trained in our products from doing support. They do VA tasks as well and it gives them more insights into different parts of the business and things. So there&#8217;s lots of ways you can get them without doing a traditional job advert to hire someone if that&#8217;s not in budget.\n\n\n\nLaura: And you don&#8217;t even need to hire full-time as well. I only ever had one full-time VA, and I found it was actually a bit much. At the minute, I&#8217;m similar to you. I have a support person who does some VA tasks and I think they only do a couple of hours a day and really that&#8217;s enough to just get through your inbox and do whatever recurring tasks need to be done. I think two hours a day minimum will get you through most client communication things that you might need to do.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, I find it really helpful to write a list of what I actually do before hiring somebody, because sometimes when you group your tasks, it&#8217;s not what you think. So when I do it, actually I need a finance assistant and a marketing assistant and very little general admin. So I might go for a general VA when that&#8217;s not the skillset I need. So it is useful to actually write down what you do. You may not have an understanding of that.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, that&#8217;s a good point actually. Time track maybe.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, exactly. All of that.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah.\n\n\n\nKatie: So let&#8217;s get back to onboarding. We went on a useful tangent then. We&#8217;ve talked about onboarding for clients who you are providing services for. So let&#8217;s move on and talk a bit about onboarding for e-commerce stores. And it&#8217;s something you may not really think of because let&#8217;s say if someone buys a pair of shoes or something on a website, they probably don&#8217;t need any onboarding, but there are e-commerce products that do need some kind of support and communication from that company after making a purchase. An example might be a membership site where they&#8217;re joining some kind of a club with an ongoing relationship. It might be that they&#8217;ve booked an event and they need information in the run-up to that event and the date of it or any kind of product that needs some kind of special advice or instructions for the customer to use it, which aren&#8217;t shipped with the product, which happens in various industries. So do you have any advice about the email side of things? I know you and I have previously talked on a different podcast about your expertise in email marketing. Do you have any advice about how email might play a part in onboarding for e-commerce store owners?\n\n\n\nLaura: Funnily enough, I recently bought some shoes and their onboarding was pretty good. They were running trainers or sneakers.\n\n\n\nKatie: You needed onboarding for shoes, fine.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, it&#8217;s funny because you say they didn&#8217;t need onboarding for shoes, but these were specifically running shoes, so it kind of makes sense if they were just regular shoes, probably not. But it was quite nice because they sent a follow-up sequence of just different things about how to care for running shoes, how often to replace them, and tips on running as well because presumably if you&#8217;re buying running shoes, you&#8217;re probably a runner. And so I thought that was quite helpful. But I think with onboarding for emails, it&#8217;s actually a really difficult thing to get right, because as you know, inboxes are just full right now and everything you buy, there&#8217;s a lot of emails that come after you always get added to the newsletter. It&#8217;s quite overwhelming. So the first thing I would say about that is to make sure you&#8217;re not sending a newsletter at the same time you&#8217;re sending onboarding. But with onboarding emails, I think one thing I really like that I&#8217;ve seen, this is more for SaaS software, are people who send the odd email. I think it&#8217;s maybe once a week I would say getting the timing right is important and it&#8217;s very, very short and it&#8217;s one very small tip that I could read in a few seconds about using whatever software that I&#8217;ve just signed up for.\n\n\n\nAnd I think that&#8217;s really great. That&#8217;s actually something I want to put into my own onboarding because I have, for Client Portal, I have a getting started guide and a few little things like that. I have a new customer survey because it&#8217;s always good to try if you can, to learn about people who have just bought. So it&#8217;s finding that balance between things that you would find useful as the business owner, plus what your customers would find useful. But yeah, I really like these new SaaS companies who are just sending these little tips specifically in software that are probably really obvious to the founder or people who use it regularly. It could be like a keyboard shortcut or just some really basic feature that just makes your life a lot easier. I think that&#8217;s really nice because I don&#8217;t think people are reading emails, they&#8217;re getting so many and I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re reading them. They&#8217;re as focused when they&#8217;re reading them as they maybe were a few years ago, at least in my experience. So yeah, that&#8217;s something I would try, but I haven&#8217;t tested it, so I don&#8217;t actually know.\n\n\n\nKatie: I really like that. Keeping it short, as you say, people do get email overwhelmed, but it is an opportunity still. With our plugins, we&#8217;ve created a unique sequence in MailChimp for each of our plugins, similar to what you said, but probably not as brief. So I will look at that. For example, if someone buys our WooCommerce product options plugin, then we&#8217;ll send an automated email straight away with instructions on how to set it up. After three days, we send a check\n\n\n\n-in email, how are you getting on? Here&#8217;s a video, here&#8217;s some extra links to resources in case you&#8217;re stuck, how to contact us, those kinds of things. With running shoes, if you&#8217;re happy with them pretty quickly, you&#8217;re going to keep using them and when they wear out, hopefully buy from the same company. But with WordPress, we have an annual subscription, so we need the customer to renew after one year and two years, which means that to encourage renewals, we want to have an ongoing relationship with the customer, which is largely automated of course. So our emails after the first couple of weeks slow down and there might be one every two or three months, and then they might speed up a bit shortly before each renewal. And like you mentioned, we provide tips. So for WooCommerce product options, an email after four months might talk about lesser-used features. You know, you could set a maximum quantity of how many pizza toppings the customer can buy or something like that, or did you know about this extra way of pricing your product options and things that they might not know to help them get more value out of it? And then we might sneak in a marketing email every now and then recommending a related product, but that shouldn&#8217;t be the main thing of course.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, I do something similar. I actually have found it quite hard to time emails up to renewal time because people could maybe upgrade their license or do different things throughout that process, and I found it quite hard from a technical perspective to set that up. So I tend to have an onboarding sequence that&#8217;s the same for everybody. It&#8217;s fortunate for me because I only have one plugin as opposed to multiple, and it&#8217;s all serving a similar audience. After the onboarding sequence, it just goes into my general monthly, or it&#8217;s not always monthly, newsletter where I&#8217;ll share a new example or a new case study or something like that. But I really want to have something in place that&#8217;s more akin to when it&#8217;s getting close to their renewal date. I just haven&#8217;t found a way to actually implement that yet.\n\n\n\nBut I do also do a little bit of upselling as well because I created a sister company from Client Portal. One thing I found was people loved the portal, but they were having trouble putting together these getting started guides and these intake questionnaires, they didn&#8217;t know what to put in them. Whereas I did create portal templates, the portal templates didn&#8217;t include content. So I created a sister company that has these templates that have all the exact wording that I would use with my clients. They&#8217;re nicely designed but easily editable, that kind of thing. So after, I think it&#8217;s about six weeks or so, I do a little mini promotion for that and then give customers a discount if they want to buy that. But it is kind of a separate company, it&#8217;s still mine. So I think there&#8217;s room to upsell people. I think it&#8217;s just important to upsell them for something that they genuinely would be interested in rather than just whatever you have. Have you identified another problem that these customers tend to have that you could solve with a different product and upsell them on that? I think that&#8217;s quite a good way, and I&#8217;ve never had any backlash about doing that because, like I say, it&#8217;s something people genuinely want, so they&#8217;re quite happy to receive those emails.\n\n\n\nKatie: Absolutely. I&#8217;ve got, I think, 19 premium plugins now, and we only upsell closely related ones. So say someone&#8217;s bought a WooCommerce restaurant plugin, a lot of them sell things like pizzas or burgers that need extra toppings, which you can do with our product options plugin. So we&#8217;ll email the restaurant customers not saying, have you heard about WooCommerce product options? It&#8217;s great. We will say, do you want to sell extra toppings and charge for them for your pizzas and burgers and so on, and be really, really specific. And those emails get quite a good conversion rate. In fact, we have an email that we send about a week after purchase, which recommend handpicked products based on what they bought, and that does quite well at getting that second purchase in.\n\n\n\nBut let&#8217;s talk a bit about tools. So I&#8217;ve mentioned that we use MailChimp to send that, but there are other things as well. Obviously, there are many competitors to MailChimp, and whichever email marketing platform you use, you can integrate with your WooCommerce website. There&#8217;s also a WooCommerce plugin that I really like. It used to be called follow-ups, and then it got merged into a plugin called Automate Woo. It&#8217;s on WooCommerce.com, and you can use that to send different emails to your customers based on what products they bought. So if you have running shoes, for example, then instead of doing it through your email platform, you could do it through your WooCommerce store and have a different product as the trigger for each email. So that&#8217;s quite good. We actually do ours through Recapture because we sell through Easy Digital Downloads rather than WooCommerce and hardly anything integrates with that, which is really frustrating. So we use Recapture for our abandoned cart software and also for our follow-up emails that recommend related products and things. So there&#8217;s lots of tools. What do you use, Laura?\n\n\n\nLaura: My tooling has changed a little bit. I use ConvertKit for my emails, and then I did use Easy Digital Downloads, but I&#8217;ve actually just migrated completely over to Freemius, and that&#8217;s really nice because it has all the abandoned cart features built in. It&#8217;s actually got a lot of the email built in as well. So I&#8217;m putting a pause on my ConvertKit onboarding to just test out what they have out of the box because they say they do a lot of testing with the emails and try to time them quite well and do all that kind of stuff. So I&#8217;m just having a look at that at the minute. Talking about personalization. One tool I really like, and I have to say I&#8217;m a bit biased, this is my husband&#8217;s company, but he runs a company called Right Message, and that&#8217;s really nice because what it allows you to do is if you have, say, so I would have for Client Portal, maybe I&#8217;d have agencies or freelancers, we have law firms, accountants, all those different industries,\n\n\n\nI can learn about different subscribers in ConvertKit and then change content on my website based on what I know about them. So for example, if I had a landing page and I was talking to an accountant via email, if they clicked through to my website, I could change the wording to speak more to accountants. And that&#8217;s been really fun to play around with just to make the whole experience more personal. One really easy example actually is if someone&#8217;s already on your email list and they go to your website, instead of seeing a popup to join your email list, which is annoying for a customer, but also annoying for you because you can end up with duplicate subscribers, they&#8217;ll see something else, so they might see nothing at all, or you could change it to be a popup for them to leave a review or join your affiliate program or something like that. So you can change what they&#8217;re seeing on your website based on what you know about them and where they are in your funnel, which is pretty nice. But other than that, I keep my tooling pretty simple. It&#8217;s mostly just Freemius, ConvertKit, Right Message, and that&#8217;s about it, I think.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, makes sense. About two months ago, I think we had Paul Halfpenny from the PersonalizeWP plugin on this show, and we talked about different personalization strategies and there&#8217;s a lot you can do, but we talked mostly about pre-sales, but that is a good point about onboarding as well, so that when customers log in, you can show them different information based on various factors. So there&#8217;s a lot you can do with that, which is quite a kind of modern approach that WordPress is just kind of starting to discover fairly recently, I would say.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of crazy what you can do now. It&#8217;s a bit scary sometimes, but it&#8217;s fun to play around with. I think the thing that you can get caught up on is sometimes you can go a little bit deep on it and do a little bit too much, and the more complexity you add, I&#8217;ve learned this the hard way, eventually something&#8217;s probably going to break or go wrong and it can be really hard to untangle it. So I really try my hardest to keep things as simple as possible, but stuff like that is just really fun to play around with and it does really work as well. So yeah, it&#8217;s good.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, I&#8217;d suggest focusing on the biggest wins there. So not every possible customer&#8217;s use case needs to have personalized content. Maybe pick out your biggest use cases that you get the most sales from and create targeted content for those that&#8217;s going to have the most impact without being ridiculously complex.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, exactly. And just testing it as well, just making sure it works. It should work. Anything that&#8217;s more personalized should work. But yeah, it&#8217;s always good to test as much as you can,\n\n\n\nKatie: Which is kind of hard because you have to replicate the environment it&#8217;s targeted for, don&#8217;t you?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, it&#8217;s really hard. I find testing it is a lot easier. The higher volume of everything you have, the easier testing becomes just because you get to see trends. If you don&#8217;t have a ton of traffic or you don&#8217;t have a ton of customers, it can be really hard to know why certain things happen. Is it a seasonal lull, for example? It&#8217;s like July right now, so it&#8217;s historically not a great month for, well, really a lot of people, everyone&#8217;s on holiday. It&#8217;s just so hard to know unless you&#8217;ve got a really big company to easily see those trends. But it&#8217;s still good to try and keep an eye on it if you can, but just not get too focused on the details, not looking every day, looking at trends maybe across months or even years sometimes.\n\n\n\nKatie: Absolutely. It&#8217;s easy to panic if you have a drop in sales over the short term and you need to wait until it&#8217;s statistically significant, if I can say that.\n\n\n\nLaura: It&#8217;s hard because unless you track this data every year, so I&#8217;ve recently started keeping a spreadsheet of, and I&#8217;ve only done it for the last three years, but it is really useful. January is a particularly good month for me. Obviously, November is good, the summer is less good, and it&#8217;s interesting to see, and I know that every year I&#8217;ve probably had the same level of panic during the lower months that if I&#8217;d have just kept an eye on these trends, I might not have needed to panic so much. It just kind of happens.\n\n\n\nKatie: Definitely. Last month we had Bryce Adams from Metorik on talking about reporting and how to get better data out of your online store because people often are having to create spreadsheets and things like that, whereas you should just have it at the click of a button. It&#8217;s kind of crazy how bad the reporting and things like WooCommerce and Easy Digital Downloads is straight out of the box, so you do need extra plugins and SaaS and so on to give you what you need or build it yourself.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, exactly. I find it hard with Easy Digital Downloads. I felt like they changed things quite a lot and I was never sure if the numbers were the same, but I do actually find no matter how good the reporting is, I do find something really useful about putting it into a spreadsheet each month because it forces me to really look at it and see where it&#8217;s changed. That might just be a me thing though.\n\n\n\nKatie: Everyone works with data in different ways and so on. We ended up building our own custom system for Easy Digital Downloads to give us the data we needed because it was just so difficult. And then we found out this week that they changed something a few months ago that had broken all of our data, so we thought we had a massive drop in sales and a massive increase in renewals, but they had just changed internally how they classified sales and renewals. So it was a definition change, and we spent ages trying to work out why this would have happened. So again, never easy.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, that&#8217;s a nightmare.\n\n\n\nKatie: Another aspect of onboarding, which I think people often forget about is the sequence that happens when the customer places an order and immediately afterwards. Since this is Do the Woo, I&#8217;ll use WooCommerce as an example. With WooCommerce, you have built-in emails and order statuses, and then when you change the order status, it triggers an email. I often find the default ones really unhelpful. I know Woo is actually working on this at the moment and thinking about how to improve the order statuses and the corresponding emails, but I ordered, I think it was a Woo T-shirt actually customized with the logo. So I received the email saying, thank you for your order. Fine. It said when it would ship. Fine. Then I received it, and then about a week later I received an order completed email from them. I&#8217;m like, hang on, I&#8217;ve already got it. I don&#8217;t care that you&#8217;ve marked it as complete on your system. And it wasn&#8217;t about me as the customer. I think that all store owners should think about things like these statuses. Another one is when you order a digital product in WooCommerce, it will set it to processing and send an email, and then you have to manually set it to completed, which sends another email. But of course, a digital product has been served automatically at the time they place the order, and so they don&#8217;t need another email. So you have to use a plugin order status manager to disable the completed email and all that stuff. So I&#8217;d say test it and think about your customer. Would you add anything to that, Laura?\n\n\n\nLaura: Just that it&#8217;s always a good idea to periodically go through and buy your own product, just do a test purchase or something and just see what happens because things do change a lot. Even like you said, with the Easy Digital Downloads changing something, you never know what&#8217;s going to change. I recently did that and I found that all my images in the emails were coming out really massive. I guess ConvertKit had changed something or something had happened, but you just don&#8217;t know until you&#8217;ve gone through it as the customer. And that&#8217;s where you can really easily find those things where you&#8217;re getting these emails where orders are being set from process to complete and then they&#8217;re getting a notification you can go in and just hopefully turn that off. But yeah, that&#8217;s probably the best way to do it. I would say, maybe every six months, just go in and do a test purchase.\n\n\n\nKatie: You&#8217;ll probably be surprised at how many emails your poor customers are receiving because they get one from PayPal if they use PayPal and all the ones from your website. And you might have a per-product email with instructions for that particular product all at the same time. So you need to think how annoying is that for people as well?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, exactly. You get five emails at once that hopefully you can condense into just one email, which would be perfect.\n\n\n\nKatie: You mentioned earlier about the subsequent emails and making sure, say, your newsletter doesn&#8217;t go out at the same time as onboarding emails. I think that&#8217;s good advice on an ongoing basis too.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, exactly. There&#8217;s a lot you can optimize, and it can, like I say, get messy. Even simple systems can get messy really quickly depending on different customers if they use a different email address. I know you can&#8217;t account for every edge case, but I went down the rabbit hole years ago of doing some really cool things with email marketing, but I&#8217;ve drastically cut it back now just to make sure that everyone&#8217;s getting a similar experience and that I have a bit more control over what they&#8217;re seeing. So I&#8217;m not sending any emails out by mistake or anything like that.\n\n\n\nKatie: It can be a lot of work to keep all your emails up to date. We&#8217;ve got hundreds of automated emails because we have a sequence for each product, and I know they&#8217;re not as up to date as they should be.\n\n\n\nLaura: I think a lot of people document, they have a master document of all of their sequences, and I started putting that together for mine as well, just to keep somewhere completely separate, just in a Google Doc or something, to just write down the process. This is similar to the client onboarding as well. It&#8217;s how I got started with it. Just bullet point every single touch point with either the client or the customer in as minute detail as possible, as many different edge cases as possible, and then just try to figure out what the ideal most smooth process would look like, whether that&#8217;s creating email sequences, whether it&#8217;s creating templates or even just templated emails using text expand or something like that just for these commonly repeatable tasks that happen within your process. I think it&#8217;s really useful. Just spending, it can take an hour, maybe if that, and it&#8217;s super, super valuable.\n\n\n\nKatie: I have a Google Doc with a list of all our emails and when they&#8217;re sent so that we can see it in one place, but that doesn&#8217;t have the content of the emails, so it&#8217;s still a big job to update them.\n\n\n\nLaura: And you have to remember to update when I make an update somewhere, update it elsewhere as well, which can be hard.\n\n\n\nKatie: Before we finish, let&#8217;s talk about measuring the success of your onboarding. Do you have any advice on how to track the effectiveness of your onboarding efforts and what you might look at to judge what you&#8217;re doing?\n\n\n\nLaura: On the WordPress plugin side, I mostly look at refund rates. I think if I do a good job of onboarding, my refund rates go down. I have actually found recently my refund rates have decreased by quite a lot. In part, it&#8217;s due to the fact that we did completely overhaul the product, and it now uses the block editor and it&#8217;s really, really nice. But another thing that I did was I put an awful lot of effort into the getting started video, and I used feedback that we&#8217;ve had from customers, common questions where customers have got stuck, things that seem really obvious to me as the creator of the product that weren&#8217;t clearly obvious to the customers. I&#8217;ve then included it in the video, and I spent a long time making this video as good as it can be and just improving that onboarding process.\n\n\n\nAnd now, I don&#8217;t know, unfortunately, whether the refund rate has reduced because of the new product or the onboarding or a combination of both. But I have noticed anecdotally that we are getting far fewer support requests from people who are just struggling to get started with the product. So I don&#8217;t handle support myself, but I do keep an eye on it. Most days. I try and just see what people are asking, and I get my support person to do a weekly report with any issues, common themes of issues people had, and virtually none since we released it. I think in, I want to say April are how do I get started? And we actually did used to get that quite commonly before then. So that&#8217;s kind of how I measure it. Like I said, it&#8217;s quite a small company, it&#8217;s not a massive company, so I can&#8217;t do a ton with analytics and stuff. But yeah, I just keep an eye on refund rates and then just my general support in that respect. And then for client onboarding, it&#8217;s similar to that, but even more extreme.\n\n\n\nYou could have hundreds of customers, but maybe a dozen clients or something. So it&#8217;s harder to manage and to really know, but generally you&#8217;re talking to clients, so you&#8217;re getting a feel for, are there any assumptions that they had that were perhaps wrong? If so, maybe you could fix that in your onboarding. Do they say, &#8220;Wow, I&#8217;m really enjoying working with you. This is really great.&#8221; That&#8217;s something that can give you an indication as to whether it&#8217;s done correctly. One other thing I do with clients actually is I tend to send out a\n\n\n\nquestionnaire when the project&#8217;s only just started, and it&#8217;s similar to the questionnaire that you&#8217;d send at the end to get their feedback, but I do it more towards the beginning and find out how it&#8217;s going so far. Generally, clients are pretty excited, and that gives me a really good indication of how did they find the onboarding experience? Was it good? Was it great? Was there any improvements? That kind of thing&#8217;s helpful. So yeah, I just track it really, I guess anecdotally is the best way to say it.\n\n\n\nKatie: I think that works for clients in particular. If they&#8217;re asking questions that you should have told them, if they&#8217;re asking really basic questions about the process, expectations, anything like that, then that&#8217;s a problem with your onboarding, isn&#8217;t it?\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, exactly. And there&#8217;s always ways you can fix that, especially if it&#8217;s common things. I think I mentioned earlier scope creep for me was always the biggest one. It always happened, and I hadn&#8217;t set that expectation. I put together a proposal and it was fairly detailed, but something had changed. It may not have been the client&#8217;s fault, it may not have been my fault, but something has changed. Well, who&#8217;s responsible for taking on that extra cost? Is it me? Is it the client? And if you have these conversations in the early stages, it just makes things a lot easier further down the road when you&#8217;re inevitably going to hit these roadblocks that everyone experiences when working with clients.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, scope creeps a good one because everybody deals with it. I find the best way to handle it is one, to make it clear what was included, as you say, through clear documentation and proposal and all of that. And then when the customer does ask for something that wasn&#8217;t in the scope, I think it&#8217;s nice to be kind of positive. Well, that&#8217;s a great idea. I think that&#8217;s a really big improvement to what we have planned. Let me cost it out for you. You haven&#8217;t said no, that&#8217;s not included, have you as a positive? No.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, that&#8217;s exactly what I would do as well is I would say I would always start with yes. So I talk in a lot of Facebook groups with freelancers and agencies, and it&#8217;s really interesting to see it as a third party where a client, there&#8217;s a bit of scope route going on, a client needs something else, and the freelancer is already assuming that the client is going to be really annoyed if you charge them any more for it. But the client has not indicated that they&#8217;re annoyed. I&#8217;ve worked with people and the scope increased, and I have, in my head, I&#8217;m thinking, of course the price is going to go up. I shouldn&#8217;t need to say that&#8217;s obviously going to happen, but the freelancer could then go into this spiral of this is going to be a massive conflict. And they start with, I did say in the proposal it was going to include this, this and this. This wasn&#8217;t included. I&#8217;m not going to do it. Whereas if you just say, oh, great idea, yeah, it&#8217;ll be an extra blah or Let me cost it out, or whatever you say, but I think that&#8217;s a great thing to do. I think I&#8217;ve never had pushback when I just said it like that, or if I have, it would be not a conflict, but more just like, actually, let&#8217;s just wait on that and maybe do that later, or something like that.\n\n\n\nKatie: Yeah, the time you get pushback is when you don&#8217;t tell them straight away. So if you send them a higher bill than expected at the end of the project, that can be a disaster. And I&#8217;ve made that mistake and lost a lot of money and had very unhappy customers in the past through when we were doing web design work. So you need to be clear before there are extra costs, but matter of fact about it, they probably assumed you would charge extra anyway.\n\n\n\nLaura: Yeah, it&#8217;s actually very similar to how I deal with my three-year-old. I&#8217;ve noticed that if she wants something, and if I say no, if it&#8217;s a, if I say no, the second she asks for it, there tends to be not really much of a meltdown. Whereas if I dance around the subject and I sort of maybe give excuses or reasons and then eventually say no further down the line, that&#8217;s when full on meltdown happens that I think it&#8217;s kind of similar when just dealing with anyone, if it&#8217;s don&#8217;t string people along, get their hopes up or whatever. And then even if you&#8217;re in the right, dump something on them at the last minute, just be really upfront, professional, positive, calm, and just not defensive. And then things just generally, in my experience anyway, seem to just work out a lot better.\n\n\n\nKatie: Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for this, Laura. It&#8217;s been great, and I think we&#8217;ve covered a lot of really concrete advice that people can hopefully go away and implement in their own businesses. So where can people find you online?\n\n\n\nLaura: I am mostly around on Twitter, so it&#8217;s @LauraLizDunn. If you want to check out Client Portal, the website&#8217;s clientportal.io. That&#8217;s pretty much where I&#8217;m at. Not on LinkedIn yet, but I am probably about to sign up. Apparently that&#8217;s the place to be.\n\n\n\nKatie: Everyone&#8217;s talking about it, but I just can&#8217;t bear the idea of another social media.\n\n\n\nLaura: I know. I do have an account. I just haven&#8217;t logged in since I was in university.\n\n\n\nKatie: Same. Yeah. Yeah, neglecting account. Well, thank you so much. You&#8217;ve been an amazing guest and thanks to everybody who&#8217;s watching as well or listening.\n\n\n\nLaura: Lovely. Thank you so much. Bye.\n\n\n\nKatie: Bye.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Woo BizChat, host Katie Keith is joined by special guest Laura Elizabeth, the founder of Client Portal, to have a conversation on the crucial topic of onboarding. \n\n\n\nWhether you&#8217;re a freelancer seeking to refine your client onboarding process or an e-commerce store owner looking to effectively onboard your customers, this discussion offers valuable insights and practical tips. Laura shares her extensive experience and strategies for creating a smooth, professional onboarding experience that sets the stage for successful projects and satisfied clients. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nImportance of Onboarding: Onboarding sets the tone for the entire project, establishing trust and clarity from the start. A well-structured onboarding process can help manage client expectations and reduce issues like scope creep.\n\n\n\nPre-Onboarding Qualification: It’s important to qualify clients before onboarding to ensure alignment on budget and project scope. Tools like intake questionnaires and discovery calls can save time and prevent misunderstandings.\n\n\n\nUsing Templates: Creating reusable templates for onboarding documents such as getting started guides, questionnaires, and contracts can streamline the process and ensure consistency.\n\n\n\nClient Portal Benefits: A client portal can serve as a centralized place for clients to access essential documents and project information, reducing the need for extensive email communication and improving the client experience.\n\n\n\nEmail Onboarding for Ecommerce: For ecommerce stores, email sequences can play a significant role in onboarding. Short, valuable tips and personalized content can enhance customer engagement and satisfaction.\n\n\n\nTesting and Optimization: Regularly testing the onboarding process by going through it as a customer can highlight areas for improvement. Keeping the process simple and focused on the client’s needs is essential.\n\n\n\nMeasuring Success: Key metrics like refund rates and support request volumes can indicate the effectiveness of the onboarding process. Gathering feedback early in the project can also provide valuable insights for improvement.\n\n\n\nHandling Scope Creep: Addressing scope changes positively and transparently can help manage client expectations and avoid conflicts. Clearly communicating additional costs upfront is crucial.\n\n\n\nPersonalization: Personalizing content based on customer data can significantly improve engagement and relevance. This can be applied to both email communication and website content.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/lauraelizdunn\">Laura on X</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://client-portal.io/\">Client Portal</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://client-portal.io/email-course/\">Free Ebook and Course</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://fullybookedva.com/virtual-assistant-finder/\">Fully Booked VA</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 30 Jul 2024 09:02:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:18;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"Gravatar: Mastering Decentralized Identity for Business\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1748\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/30/decentralized-identity-management/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21120:\"Imagine having complete control over your personal identity information without relying on a centralized authority. Well, that’s absolutely possible with decentralized identity management – an innovative system that allows individuals to own, control, and manage their identity data.\n\n\n\nSo, how does it work?&nbsp;\n\n\n\nDecentralized identity management uses cutting-edge technologies like blockchain to distribute identity data across a network. By doing so, it enhances security and ensures that no single entity has complete control over sensitive information. Users can selectively share specific identity attributes using cryptographic keys and digital wallets, giving them granular control over what personal information is disclosed and to whom.\n\n\n\nIn this article, we&#8217;ll explore the key benefits, real-world applications, and technological advancements driving this revolutionary approach. And if you&#8217;re wondering how to implement decentralized profile management on your website, we&#8217;ve got you covered with a closer look at <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Importance of decentralized identity management for businesses</h2>\n\n\n\nBusinesses face many challenges when managing customer identities. From data breaches to identity theft, the risks are real and can have devastating consequences. Decentralized identity management offers a secure and efficient means of user control, though this involves effective implementation through navigating technical complexities, regulatory uncertainties, and user adoption hurdles.\n\n\n\nLet’s look at the full benefits of decentralized identity management!\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Enhanced security and fraud prevention: By distributing personal identifiers across a network, decentralized systems make it incredibly difficult for hackers to access and steal sensitive information. Even if one node in the network is compromised, the data remains safe, as it&#8217;s not stored in a central location. This added layer of security helps businesses protect their customers&#8217; data and reduces the risk of costly data breaches.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Regulatory compliance: With strict data protection laws like the <a href=\"https://gdpr-info.eu/\" rel=\"nofollow\">General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR)</a> and the <a href=\"https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa\" rel=\"nofollow\">California Consumer Privacy Act (CCPA)</a> in place, companies must be transparent about how they handle customer data. Decentralized systems make this easier by giving users control over their personal information, such as deciding what data to share and with whom.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Operational efficiency: In traditional systems, businesses often waste time and resources on repetitive verification processes. With decentralized identity, they are replaced with fixed audit trails and verifiable credentials, which are much more efficient. Companies can quickly and easily verify customer identities without the need for redundant checks, saving time and money in the long run.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Building trust and loyalty with customers: By giving people control over their personal data, companies show that they value privacy and are committed to protecting sensitive information. This level of transparency and respect can go a long way in fostering long-lasting relationships with users, ultimately leading to increased retention and loyalty. </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Importance of decentralized identity management for users and customers</h2>\n\n\n\nDecentralized identity management is becoming more important as users seek greater control over their personal information. However, there’s much more to it than that.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Interoperability: Standardized protocols allow identity data to be used across various services. Users don&#8217;t need multiple accounts or to go through repeated verification checks, which reduces hassle and makes the online experience smoother.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Security against identity theft: Decentralized identity systems provide strong security features. These systems protect users from identity theft and fraud. By reducing reliance on centralized databases, the risk of data breaches decreases.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Enhanced user experience: Users can enjoy a more streamlined experience. No need to remember multiple usernames and passwords. Logging into different services becomes quicker and more convenient.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Control over personal data: Users have the power to manage their own identity information. They can decide how much data to share and with whom. This approach reduces the risk of personal data misuse and enhances privacy.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nOne example is signing up for a new service online. Traditionally, this involves creating a new account, verifying email addresses, and setting up passwords. With decentralized identity management, users can leverage their existing identity credentials to sign up, saving time and effort.\n\n\n\nDecentralized identity management is an incredible technical innovation that changes how people interact with digital services. By putting control back into the hands of users, it promises a future where personal data is more secure and user experiences are more enjoyable. And that&#8217;s something worth looking forward to.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Centralized vs. decentralized identity management</h2>\n\n\n\nUnderstanding the differences between centralized and decentralized identity management systems can help businesses and users make informed decisions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<table class=\"has-contrast-background-color has-background has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td>Aspect</td><td>Centralized identity management</td><td>Decentralized identity management</td></tr><tr><td>Control</td><td>Controlled by one entity, meaning users rely on this entity to manage their identity data.</td><td>Users have control over their identity information, distributing authority and reducing dependency on a single organization.</td></tr><tr><td>Security</td><td>Vulnerable to data breaches because all data is stored in one place. If that central database is compromised, all stored identities are at risk.</td><td>Spreads the data across multiple points, making it harder for hackers to access all information. This reduces the chance of a large-scale data breach.</td></tr><tr><td>Scalability</td><td>Easier to scale within a company&#8217;s existing infrastructure since it relies on a singular, controlled environment.</td><td>Scaling decentralized systems involves challenges such as ensuring network size doesn&#8217;t affect performance and maintaining interoperability between different Decentralized Identifiers (DIDs).</td></tr></tbody></table>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFor example, if a large company&#8217;s central database is hacked, all user data could be compromised. In contrast, a decentralized system&#8217;s distributed nature means that even if one node is breached, the overall impact is minimized.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Decentralized vs. federated vs. self-sovereign identities</h2>\n\n\n\nNavigating the different types of identity systems can be tricky. Let&#8217;s break down the differences between decentralized, federated, and self-sovereign identities.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Decentralized identity</h3>\n\n\n\nUsers own and control their identity without intermediaries, and their data is not stored in a single central location, reducing the risks of breaches. This system is gaining traction as data privacy and security become more critical in the digital economy.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Federated identity</h3>\n\n\n\nHere, multiple organizations allow the same identity credentials to access various services, so the user data is somewhat centralized, but it’s still spread across the entities involved. It’s very similar to using your social media account to log into different apps and websites – convenient but involves sharing your data with multiple entities.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Self-sovereign identity</h3>\n\n\n\nThis is an extension of decentralized identity, where users have minimal reliance on any secondary parties for their identity management. They decide when and with whom to share data, and no third party holds their information.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Applications of decentralized identity management</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Online authentication</h3>\n\n\n\nDecentralized identity systems enable users to securely authenticate their identities when accessing various online services. Instead of relying on a central authority to manage their identity data, users can prove their identity using cryptographic keys associated with their decentralized identifiers.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThis approach enhances security by reducing the risk of data breaches. For example, logging into an online service with a DID means your identity is verified without exposing sensitive information to potential hackers.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Government registries</h3>\n\n\n\nGovernment registries can issue digital versions of traditional IDs, such as passports or driver&#8217;s licenses. Imagine having a digital credential that verifies your age or nationality without needing to disclose your full identity.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThis can be particularly useful for online age verification or when proving residency for government services. By using decentralized identity systems, governments can streamline verification processes while improving privacy and security for their citizens.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Educational institutions</h3>\n\n\n\nUniversities and colleges can act as issuers by providing digital credentials that verify educational achievements. For example, a university could issue a credential that confirms an individual&#8217;s degree. This can be used when applying for jobs or further education, making the verification process more efficient and secure.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nInstead of sending physical transcripts or certificates, individuals can share their verified credentials instantly and securely with potential employers or educational institutions.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Financial Institutions</h3>\n\n\n\nSimilarly, banks and other financial institutions can issue their own credentials that verify financial information, such as creditworthiness or account ownership. These digital credentials can streamline the process and enhance security when applying for loans or conducting high-value transactions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nJust like with universities, instead of providing physical documents to prove account ownership, customers can present a digital credential issued by their bank. This reduces paperwork and speeds up transactions while maintaining high levels of security.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Understanding key technologies in decentralized identity management</h2>\n\n\n\nDecentralized identity management relies on several cutting-edge technologies that focus on security, privacy, and user control. Let’s take a look:\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Web 3.0</h3>\n\n\n\nThe internet is evolving into Web 3.0, with a shift that brings decentralized applications and services to the forefront.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>User empowerment: Unlike earlier versions of the internet, where big companies controlled most data, Web 3.0 gives users control over their own digital identity. This enhances privacy and ownership as users decide what information to share and with whom.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Infrastructure support: Web 3.0 provides the necessary infrastructure for decentralized identifiers and verifiable credentials. These tools let users manage their identities securely without needing a central authority.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nFor example, logging into different online services can be done using a single, user-controlled identity, improving security and convenience. Web 3.0 makes this possible, creating a more secure and user-friendly online experience.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Blockchain</h3>\n\n\n\nBlockchain technology is fundamental to decentralized identity systems. Here&#8217;s why:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Immutable and distributed nature: Blockchain is a distributed ledger that records transactions in an immutable and secure way. Each block contains a cryptographic hash of the previous block, ensuring the integrity of the entire chain.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Security and trust: Blockchain&#8217;s decentralized nature means there&#8217;s no single point of failure, making it highly secure. Transactions recorded there are transparent and verifiable by all participants, fostering trust.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Platforms: Blockchain platforms like <a href=\"https://ethereum.org/en/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Ethereum</a> support decentralized applications (dApps) that are essential for identity management. These platforms provide the infrastructure for creating and managing DIDs and verifiable credentials.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nFor instance, Ethereum&#8217;s smart contract functionality lets you create complex identity management systems that operate autonomously and transparently.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Cryptography</h3>\n\n\n\nCryptographic techniques like hashing and public-key cryptography are essential for protecting data. Hashing converts data into a fixed-size string of characters that is unique to the original data. Public-key cryptography, on the other hand, involves a pair of keys – public and private – that enable secure communication.\n\n\n\nThese cryptographic methods allow one party to prove to another that they know a value without revealing the value itself. This is crucial for secure user authentication without exposing personal information.\n\n\n\nFor example, when a user logs in to a service using a DID, cryptographic techniques ensure their identity is verified without revealing their underlying data.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT)</h3>\n\n\n\nDLT is a system where data is stored across multiple locations, making it decentralized and resistant to tampering. Unlike traditional databases, which are centralized and vulnerable to hacking, DLT spreads data across a network of nodes. So, there is no single point of failure, making it extremely hard to alter records without detection.\n\n\n\nThis technology helps to maintain secure and transparent records of identity verifications and transactions. For example, in a decentralized identity system, when a user verifies their identity, the transaction is recorded on a distributed ledger. This ensures that the verification is tamper-proof and can be independently audited.\n\n\n\nDLT&#8217;s transparency and security features make it ideal for managing identities, ensuring that users&#8217; data remains safe and verifiable without relying on a single, centralized authority.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Decentralized identifiers&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\nDecentralized identifiers are globally unique identifiers that are a key component of decentralized identity systems. Unlike traditional identifiers like email addresses or usernames, these are created, owned, and controlled by the user. They are linked to verifiable digital credentials, including information like your name, age, or professional qualifications.\n\n\n\nOne of the more interesting features of DIDs is their interoperability across different networks and platforms, enabled by distributed ledger technology. This means a DID you use on one website can also be recognized and verified on another, eliminating the need to create separate accounts.\n\n\n\nFor example, you can use it to log into a social media platform and then use the same DID to access your bank account. DIDs&#8217; interoperability ensures a hassle-free and secure experience across various services while keeping you in control of your data.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Verifiable Credentials (VCs)</h3>\n\n\n\nVerifiable credentials are vital in enhancing user privacy and control over personal data. A verifiable credential is a digital certificate that proves a claim about an individual, such as their age or educational qualification, without revealing unnecessary personal information.\n\n\n\nVCs have three main components: the claim, the proof, and the issuer. The claim is the actual statement about the user, such as “John has a master&#8217;s degree”. The proof is the cryptographic evidence that supports the claim, ensuring its authenticity and integrity. The issuer is the trusted entity that provides the credential, like a university or government.\n\n\n\nThis technology is great because it <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/21/securing-cyber-space-role-of-digital-identity-verification/\">allows users to prove their identity</a> or qualifications selectively. For example, when applying for a job, a user can present a VC that verifies their degree without sharing their full academic record. This selective disclosure helps protect privacy while ensuring the necessary information is verified. And because these credentials are digital, they can be easily and securely shared online, making processes faster and more efficient.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How Gravatar paves the way for decentralized identity in profile management&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"403\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-homepage-1-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1750\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> is a profile management system that lets users create profiles linked to their email addresses instead of their names. This gives users <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/04/10/personal-branding-tools/\">control over their online identities</a>, allowing them to remain anonymous or curate different profiles for various aspects of their lives.\n\n\n\nFor businesses, integrating Gravatar into their online portals streamlines profile creation by importing profile data directly from Gravatar. The best part? Users remain in full control of their data.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nHere&#8217;s how:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Centralized profile hub: A Gravatar profile acts as the central hub for all profiles on Gravatar-enabled sites. When users update their Gravatar profile, the changes automatically reflect across all linked profiles, saving time and ensuring consistency.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"373\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profile-example-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-1751\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Privacy control: Users have complete control over their privacy settings and can decide how much data businesses can access. This empowers users to share only what they’re comfortable with.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"281\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-privacy-settings-1-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar privacy settings\" class=\"wp-image-1752\" />\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Compliance and data security: By using Gravatar, businesses don’t need to store user data, reducing the burden of data management and compliance with regulations like GDPR. This reduces risk and enhances data security.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nImagine a freelancer who uses different profiles for various gigs. With Gravatar, they can manage all these profiles from a single place. Updating their contact information in one spot means it’s updated everywhere, without the need to log into multiple sites or type in the same information over and over again.\n\n\n\nGravatar&#8217;s approach to profile management aligns with the principles of decentralized identity by giving users control and reducing reliance on centralized data storage. It&#8217;s a practical step towards a more secure and user-centric internet.\n\n\n\nCurious about how Gravatar can benefit your website? <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/02/27/gravatar-manifesto-one-profile-everywhere/\">Check out our manifesto</a> to learn more about integrating Gravatar for decentralized profile management.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Jul 2024 22:26:04 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:19;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"Gravatar: 3 Easy Steps to Transform Your WordPress Profile Picture System\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1910\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/19/wordpress-profile-picture/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14059:\"We have heard from some of you that you would rather not use Gravatar for your profile pictures in WordPress. Our feelings aren&#8217;t hurt, promise, as we know you have your reasons!&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIn this guide, we&#8217;ll explore different ways to change the profile picture system in <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WordPress</a>, catering to various user preferences and needs. Before moving on to other solutions, we’ll start by showing you how to easily change your profile picture using your Gravatar profile – which as you’ll see, is the simplest method and requires no additional plugins or setup on your WordPress site.\n\n\n\nHowever, if you&#8217;re looking for more customization options or want to give your users the ability to upload their own profile pictures directly on your site, we&#8217;ll also cover alternative solutions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nBefore we dive in, it’s important to note that in WordPress, different user roles have different permissions related to their profile pictures (namely, whether they can upload their own or not). Let’s break these down quickly:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Administrators can change their own profile picture, as well as the profile pictures of any other user.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editors can change their own profile picture.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Authors and Contributors cannot change their profile picture by default. However, this capability can be granted to them by an Administrator using a plugin or custom code.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Subscribers cannot change their own profile picture through the WordPress dashboard. The only way for them to have a profile picture is to use Gravatar.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nNow that that’s covered, let’s discover the best ways to update profile pictures in WordPress!\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to change your WordPress profile picture with Gravatar&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"403\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-homepage-2-2.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1923\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/basic/what-is-gravatar/\">Gravatar</a>, short for &#8220;Globally Recognized Avatar,&#8221; is a service provided by <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a>, the company behind <a href=\"http://wordpress.com\" rel=\"nofollow\">WordPress.com</a>, <a href=\"https://woocommerce.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WooCommerce</a>, <a href=\"https://jetpack.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Jetpack</a>, and other leading entities in the WordPress space and beyond. It’s a popular tool and free service for managing avatars across multiple sites, and it’s fully integrated into the platform.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nBy default, WordPress pulls avatars from Gravatar, so if you have a Gravatar account, your avatar will automatically show up on your <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/wordpress-profile-page/\">WordPress profile</a>.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"291\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/wordpress-default-picture.png?w=660\" alt=\"Profile picture settings in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1922\" />\n\n\n\nIf not, you’ll see a generic icon like the Mystery Person, or generated icons like MonsterID, Wavatar, or Identicon, depending on your site’s settings.\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"123\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profile-image-options-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of the generic icons \" class=\"wp-image-1921\" />\n\n\n\nTo use Gravatar, you need to make sure the email you use on WordPress matches the one used for Gravatar.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"128\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/confirm-email-for-website.png?w=660\" alt=\"Email section in the WordPress account settings\" class=\"wp-image-1920\" />\n\n\n\nIf you don’t have a Gravatar account, creating one is straightforward. Here’s how to do it:\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/basic/account-signup/\">Sign up for Gravatar</a>: Visit Gravatar&#8217;s website and sign up with the email address you use for your WordPress account.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n		\n			<div class=\"jetpack-videopress-player__wrapper\"> </div>\n			\n			\n		\n		\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Upload your image: In the sidebar menu, click on &#8220;Avatars,&#8221; and choose to upload an image from your computer, URL, or select from previously uploaded images.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n		\n			<div class=\"jetpack-videopress-player__wrapper\"> </div>\n			\n			\n		\n		\n\n\nOnce your Gravatar is set up, it will appear as your profile picture on all WordPress sites supporting it. Remember, changes might take some time to reflect due to caching, so don’t worry if it doesn’t update immediately.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to enable users to change their WordPress profile pictures in the frontend&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\nBesides your own profile picture, you might also want to change the image for your users, which is what we recommend. Giving users the ability to change their profile pictures directly from the front end can greatly enhance the user experience on your WordPress site. There are several ways to achieve this, so let’s dive in!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Use a WordPress plugin for custom avatars</h3>\n\n\n\nPlugins are a powerful tool for managing custom avatars in WordPress. They offer additional features, ease of use, and seamless integration with other WordPress functionalities. Here’s a look at some of the top plugins you can use to let users change their profile pictures from the frontend.\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Profile Press</h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"332\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/profile-press-download-page.png?w=660\" alt=\"Profile Press download page\" class=\"wp-image-1916\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-user-avatar/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Profile Press</a> is a paid membership tool allowing admins to create custom user registration and login forms and a user profile section where registered visitors can change their profile pictures.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nKey features:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Customization options for user profiles, registration forms, and more.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Allows users to reset their profile pictures, passwords, and other information.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Allows admins to curate a detailed member directory that is searchable and filterable.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nThis plugin comes with many features, but it can be a bit more complicated for people who just want the option to change profile pictures. It’s also not free: The pricing starts from $129/year for 1 site, and even if you want the lite version, there’s still a 2% Stripe fee.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simple Local Avatars</h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"312\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/simple-local-avatars-download-page.png?w=660\" alt=\"Simple Local Avatars download page\" class=\"wp-image-1915\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/simple-local-avatars/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Simple Local Avatars</a> enables users to upload avatars directly to their profiles through the WordPress Media Library to manage images, making it an excellent choice for those who prefer keeping everything within their site.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nKey Features:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Adds an avatar upload field to user profiles who have permission to do so.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Falls back on Gravatar if no custom picture is chosen.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Stored the pictures in an “Upload” folder where the rest of your media is.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Avatar Manager&nbsp;</h4>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"386\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/avatar-manager-download-page.png?w=660\" alt=\"Avatar Manager download page\" class=\"wp-image-1914\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/avatar-manager/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Avatar Manager</a> is a great solution for managing avatars. Users can choose between Gravatar, a custom-uploaded image, or a default-generated avatar.\n\n\n\nKey Features:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Supports Gravatar and custom uploads.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Option to fall back on default avatars if needed.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>User-friendly profile interface.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nAvatar Manager is a free user-driven project and one of the most simple solutions if you want to give your users more control over their profile pictures in WordPress. However, it hasn’t been tested with the last three WordPress updates so make sure it’s fully compatible and working before integrating it into your website.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nChoosing the right plugin depends on your site’s specific needs and user preferences. Don’t hesitate to try out a few different options to see which one works best for your community. Each plugin offers unique features that can enhance how users interact with their profiles, making your site more engaging and user-friendly.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Explain to users how to change profile pictures via Gravatar&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\nChanging profile pictures via Gravatar is the easiest method and doesn&#8217;t require installing anything on your WordPress site. However, not every user may be familiar with Gravatar or understand how it connects to their WordPress profile picture.\n\n\n\nTo help your users navigate this process, consider providing a brief explanation of what Gravatar is and how it works with WordPress. You can include this information in a visible section on your website, such as the <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/05/09/wordpress-profile-page/\">user profile page</a>, or the welcome email sent to new users upon registration.\n\n\n\nHere&#8217;s an example of what you might say:\n\n\n\n&#8220;To change your profile picture on our site, you&#8217;ll need to create a Gravatar account. Gravatar, short for &#8216;Globally Recognized Avatar,&#8217; is a service that allows you to maintain a consistent profile picture across multiple websites, including WordPress sites like ours.\n\n\n\nTo get started, visit <a href=\"http://gravatar.com\">Gravatar.com</a> and sign up using the same email address associated with your account on our site. Once you&#8217;ve created your account, upload a new profile picture or choose from existing ones. Your chosen image will automatically update on our site and any other WordPress sites where you use the same email address.\n\n\n\nPlease note that changes might take some time to reflect due to caching. If you have any questions or need assistance, don&#8217;t hesitate to reach out to our support team.&#8221;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhance user profiles with deeper Gravatar integration</h2>\n\n\n\nFor admins looking to enhance the user experience, WordPress&#8217;s integration with Gravatar offers more than just profile pictures. With <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/api/rest-api/\">Gravatar&#8217;s REST API</a>, you can create detailed user profiles that display additional information alongside avatars. This API allows you to pull in data such as user bios, social media links, and more, providing a richer profile experience.\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"411\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-2.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar for developers homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1913\" />\n\n\n\nAnother great feature to consider is <a href=\"https://support.gravatar.com/profiles/hovercards/\">Gravatar Hovercards</a>. These pop-up cards display when someone hovers over a user&#8217;s avatar. Hovercards can show the user&#8217;s bio, social media links, and other Gravatar profile information. This adds an interactive element to your site, giving visitors more context about each user without navigating away from the page.\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"344\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/hovercards-example.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar hovercard\" class=\"wp-image-1912\" />\n\n\n\nTo implement Gravatar Hovercards, just add the following code to your website:\n\n\n\n<pre class=\"wp-block-code\"><code><a href=\"https://www.gravatar.com/js/hovercards/hovercards.min.js\">https://www.gravatar.com/js/hovercards/hovercards.min.js</a>\n&lt;script&gt;\n( function() {\n function init() {\n Gravatar.init();\n }\n if( document.readyState !== \'loading\') {\n init();\n } else {\n document.addEventListener( \'DOMContentLoaded\', init );\n }\n} )();\n&lt;/script&gt;</code></pre>\n\n\n\nIntegrating these features is straightforward and can provide a more personalized and engaging experience for your users.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get started today: Implement an effective profile picture system</h2>\n\n\n\nCustomization is very important for websites that rely on user communication and engagement. The abovementioned plugins can be a great alternative to the default avatar system. However, keeping Gravatar as an option is beneficial because it allows users to transfer their digital identities easily with just an email, avoiding the need to create a new profile for each WordPress site.\n\n\n\nAdmins can further enhance the user experience by integrating Gravatar more deeply into their site. This can be done by using Gravatar&#8217;s REST API to provide additional profile information and features beyond avatars.\n\n\n\nWhen making a decision, consider your audience and what would serve them best. For an improved and customized user experience, <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">check out Gravatar’s REST API integration</a>.&nbsp;\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Jul 2024 21:47:49 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:20;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"Gravatar: Encouraging Discussion: Simple Steps to Enable Comments in WordPress\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"http://blog.gravatar.com/?p=1881\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:66:\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/11/enable-comments-in-wordpress/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20579:\"One of the biggest benefits of having a WordPress website is the opportunity to create a loyal community from scratch, particularly by enabling comments on blog posts. When people have the option to interact with your content, they build a deeper connection with you as the author, and they also connect with other like-minded individuals.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nComments are a valuable form of user-generated content that can boost your SEO by keeping your pages fresh and updated. However, managing comments can come with challenges like spam and moderation.\n\n\n\nIn this article, we&#8217;ll walk you through the steps of enabling and disabling comments, preventing spam, changing user avatars, filtering content, and using tools like <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a> and <a href=\"https://akismet.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Akismet</a> to enhance your comment section. By the end, you&#8217;ll have all the knowledge you need to create an engaging community around your WordPress blog.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to enable comments in WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enable comments on new posts</h3>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Go to Settings &gt; Discussion.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"501\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/settings-discussion.png?w=660\" alt=\"Navigating to the discussion settings\" class=\"wp-image-1883\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Enable the option for people to comment on new posts.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"156\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/allow-comments-on-new-posts.png?w=660\" alt=\"Default discussion settings for posts\" class=\"wp-image-1885\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"3\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Save your changes.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enable comments on specific posts</h3>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Navigate to Posts &gt; All Posts or Pages &gt; All Pages, depending on what you want to edit. We’ll go with a post in this example, but the process is the same for pages.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"347\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/posts-all-posts-gravatar.png?w=660\" alt=\"Navigating to the Posts list table\" class=\"wp-image-1886\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Choose the post or page and click Edit.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"347\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/edit-post-gravatar.png?w=660\" alt=\"Editing an individual post\" class=\"wp-image-1887\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"3\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Go to the Discussion panel, which is located in the Post tab of the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Gutenberg</a> block editor, and click on Allow comments.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"359\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/allow-comments-individual-post-gravatar.png?w=660\" alt=\"Allowing comments for a specific post\" class=\"wp-image-1888\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"4\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Click Update or Publish, and you’re done!</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\nEnabling comments for a particular post or a page can be useful in many cases. For example, if you release a new big feature of your product or service, you can create a post announcing it and enable comments to gather feedback, while the comments for the regular updates stay disabled.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to disable comments in WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\nWhile encouraging comment discussions can be great, you also need to make sure that your site has a clean and professional appearance. Sometimes that means disabling comments to prevent spam, inappropriate content, or heated debates on controversial topics. Disabling comments may also be necessary if you have limited moderation resources, want to maintain focus on your content, or have legal concerns. Ultimately, the decision depends on your unique situation and goals for your WordPress site.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Disabling comments globally</h3>\n\n\n\nTo disable comments for your entire site, go back to Settings &gt; Discussion and then uncheck the box that says “Allow people to post comments on new articles.”\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"157\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/uncheck-allow-comments-global-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Disabling comments for all future posts\" class=\"wp-image-1889\" />\n\n\n\nRemember that this setting will only affect future published posts and pages, not the existing content.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Disabling comments on existing posts and pages</h3>\n\n\n\nTo do this, you have two options. You can either go back to the individual post settings and uncheck the Allow comments box, or you can do this in bulk for multiple posts.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nFor the second option, do the following:&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Select all the posts you wish to change the settings for.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"379\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/select-posts-to-edit.png?w=660\" alt=\"Selecting multiple posts for bulk editing\" class=\"wp-image-1890\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"2\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Click on the Bulk Actions dropdown menu, select Edit, and then click Apply.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"278\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/bulk-actions-edit.png?w=660\" alt=\"Bulk actions menu in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1891\" />\n\n\n\n<ol start=\"3\" class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>In the bulk edit window, find the settings for the comments and change them to Do not allow. Save the changes.&nbsp;</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"276\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/disallow-comments-in-bulk.png?w=660\" alt=\"Disabling comments from the bulk editing window in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1892\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Moderating comments with default WordPress settings</h2>\n\n\n\nDisabling comments for some posts is okay, but we don’t recommend doing that for your entire blog as it puts a big barrier to communication between you and your audience. Instead, you can learn how to moderate comments through different methods.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nLet’s see them!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Accessing comment moderation settings</h3>\n\n\n\nFrom your WordPress dashboard, go to Settings &gt; Discussion and there you will find more settings related to comment moderation.\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"247\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/other-comment-settings.png?w=660\" alt=\"Comment settings in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1893\" />\n\n\n\nOne of the options, for example, is to make the commenter fill out their name and email, but that isn’t always effective in deterring more dedicated spammers as they will just fill out a fake name and email.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThe other option is to limit comments only to registered users, which is great at first glance, but in reality, may discourage new users from engaging with your content. Not everyone wants to register for a site just to post a comment.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThe last content moderation feature here is closing comments on posts older than a number provided by you, for example, 14 days. This is also not ideal because it takes time for blog posts to rank, and ideally your content will be discovered by new users long after it’s been published.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Manual approval of comments</h3>\n\n\n\nFurther down in the settings, you will find the manual approval functionality.\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"103\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/manual-approval-comments.png?w=660\" alt=\"Settings for manually approving WordPress comments\" class=\"wp-image-1894\" />\n\n\n\nHere, you can choose to be notified for each comment or to only do that for people who comment for the first time. This is a great way to filter out spam and make sure only relevant comments are posted. However, it can be a bit overwhelming when your blog grows, and all of a sudden you have hundreds of comments to approve every day.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIf you do have regular readers, their comments will be automatically approved.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Keyword and phrase moderation</h3>\n\n\n\nFurther down, you’ll find a box where you can include a list of trigger words that will put comments for moderation.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"282\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/content-moderation-and-links.png?w=660\" alt=\"Content moderation window in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1895\" />\n\n\n\nCommon spam keywords include:&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>CTAs like “Act now!”, “Apply now!”, “Call now!”, “Don’t hesitate!”, etc.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Almost anything including the word “Free”, such as “free consultation”, “free offer”, “free trial”, etc.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Anything related to extra income, such as “additional income”, “be your own boss”, “grow your business”, “double your”, “earn $”, “earn extra cash”, “earn from home”, “expect to earn”, and many more.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nIn the field above this box, you can also limit the number of links allowed in the comment, as one of the more common forms of spam includes links that prompt people to sign up for something.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThere is also the option to directly delete comments with certain content, and it’s called “Disallowed Comment Keys.”\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"223\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/disallowed-comment-keys.png?w=660\" alt=\"Disallowed Comment Keys box in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1896\" />\n\n\n\nThis setting allows you to include special keywords and phrases that signal spam and uncensored comments. If any of these words appear in the content, whether it’s the actual comment or the user name, email, IP address, and URL, then the comment will be automatically put in the Trash.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Email notifications</h3>\n\n\n\nAll of these triggers will appear as notifications but you can also enable emails so that you can keep a close look at your blog at any time.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"151\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/email-notifications.png?w=660\" alt=\"Email notification settings for comments\" class=\"wp-image-1897\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Regular review and maintenance</h3>\n\n\n\nOnce you have all the settings you want, you also need to regularly check your spam folders for potential legitimate comments. Just because a comment was flagged as spam does not always mean it is genuinely spam.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIt’s also recommended that you update your trigger words to include specific instances from your comment section, as well as email addresses, which are confirmed spammers.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Deep dive into avatar settings in WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\nThe avatar settings in WordPress allow you to customize how users appear on your website. You can go there by navigating to Settings &gt; Discussion.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"338\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/avatar-settings.png?w=660\" alt=\"Avatar settings in WordPress\" class=\"wp-image-1898\" />\n\n\n\nWordPress is connected to <a href=\"https://gravatar.com/\">Gravatar</a>, a digital identity platform by Automattic, that allows users to create a unique profile connected to their email address. By default, WordPress pulls in user avatars from Gravatar, using the profile connected with the same email address. If they don’t have a Gravatar profile, a default picture will appear, which you can change from the same settings.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"355\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/default-avatar-settings.png?w=660\" alt=\"Default avatar options\" class=\"wp-image-1899\" />\n\n\n\nGenerally, it’s recommended that you encourage users to create and customize their Gravatar profiles instead of staying anonymous. This will help with consistency on your website but also many other aspects:&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Personalization: Custom avatars allow users to express their identity and make discussions more engaging.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Recognition: Unique avatars help users recognize each other, fostering a sense of community.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Professionalism: For businesses, consistent branding with a logo avatar builds credibility.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Visual appeal: Avatars make comment sections more visually appealing and inviting for interaction.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nBy encouraging users to create Gravatar profiles, you can drastically reduce the amount of spam you receive as Gravatar users are always connected with legitimate email addresses. Besides that, they are often linked with their social media accounts, which are automatically verified by the platform.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"373\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profile-example-1-1.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-1901\" />\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"383\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/verified-accounts-gravatar.png?w=660\" alt=\"Linking verified social media accounts to a Gravatar profile\" class=\"wp-image-1903\" />\n\n\n\nIf you want to learn more about how Gravatar profiles work, <a href=\"https://gravatar.com\">check out our documentation</a>!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Tool to elevate comments sections on WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Prevent spam with Akismet Anti-Spam</h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"351\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/jetpack-akismet.png?w=660\" alt=\"Akismet Anti-Spam homepage\" class=\"wp-image-1904\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://akismet.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Akismet</a> is a tool by Jetpack created specifically to battle spam on WordPress sites. It comes packed with features that allow you to automate verification processes and create a distraction-free environment for your genuine users to engage and comment on posts and pages.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIts main features include:&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Automatic spam detection: The plugin automatically detects and filters out spam comments, trackbacks, forum posts, WooCommerce product reviews, and contact form submissions. Everything is sent to the Spam folder.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Real-time monitoring: This feature captures spam right as it happens. Unwanted comments and submissions are automatically removed so that your site doesn’t include this type of content even for a second.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Spam reporting: Users can teach Akismet by reporting spam directly from the WordPress dashboard, improving its accuracy and helping it learn your specific triggers. This way, no legitimate traffic is flagged as spam.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Full integration: The plugin easily integrates with popular contact form plugins like <a href=\"https://wpforms.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">WP Forms</a>, <a href=\"https://www.gravityforms.com/\" rel=\"nofollow\">Gravity Forms</a>, and more, and it also has a reliable spam protection network.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Compliance with regulations: With Akismet, you can choose to display a privacy notice so that people are aware of their comments being scanned by a tool. This helps you become fully compliant with regulations like the <a href=\"https://gdpr-info.eu/\" rel=\"nofollow\">General Data Protection Regulation</a> in the European Union.&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nIts spam-protection capabilities work both on comments and form submissions so you can receive only relevant and real user interactions.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Leverage Gravatar profile integration for a better community</h3>\n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"411\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-profiles-as-a-service-1-2.png?w=660\" alt=\"Gravatar – Profiles-as-a-service\" class=\"wp-image-1906\" />\n\n\n\nBeyond WordPress’s default integration with Gravatar for pulling in user avatars, Gravatar’s REST API allows website owners and developers to <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/03/profiles-as-a-service/\">import user profile data</a> and build customized profile pages for their WordPress users. This powerful integration enhances the overall experience on comment threads by enabling users to visit commenter profiles and learn more about them.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWhen integrated, the REST API gives you access to important user information such as:&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Their profile bio</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Location&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Website URLs</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Payment links</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Verified social media profiles</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Additional images</li>\n\n\n\n<li>And much more!</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWith this data, however, WordPress site owners can create dynamic and informative <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/06/05/user-profile-page-examples/\">user profiles</a>, which can significantly improve the sense of community and encourage more meaningful interactions within comment sections.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIt’s also great for the overall user experience because it gives your visitors a special place on your site without having to register and fill in the same information from scratch.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAnother great feature of Gravatar is the <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2023/10/02/new-gravatar-hovercards-faster-open-source-and-everywhere/\">Hovercard</a> – a dynamic mini-version of a user’s Gravatar profile that shows up when you hover your mouse over their <a href=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/2024/07/19/wordpress-profile-picture/\">profile picture</a>. \n\n\n\n<img tabindex=\"0\" width=\"660\" height=\"360\" src=\"https://blog.gravatar.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gravatar-comment-section.png?w=660\" alt=\"Example of a Gravatar hovercard in a comment section of a blog post\" class=\"wp-image-1907\" />\n\n\n\nThis allows other site visitors to quickly access information about another user without leaving the page, giving them valuable context in the specific situation.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nActively using and encouraging users to take advantage of Gravatar has the power to create strong communities that actively engage with each other. It also incentivizes them to create and maintain their digital identities with the platform.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Ready to build an engaging platform? Activate comments in WordPress now&nbsp;</h2>\n\n\n\nWith the right tools and techniques, WordPress comment sections can become a hub for engaged communities and a place to foster loyal relationships with users and other visitors. And if you’re apprehensive because of potential spam, remember that the payoff from having a community is definitely worth it.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nIt improves your reputation and takes your website to a whole different level – from a passive content platform to a place where people can communicate with like-minded individuals, share ideas, and learn new things.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWith Gravatar profiles and the REST API, this communication hub can become even more engaging, so don’t wait! <a href=\"https://docs.gravatar.com/\">Integrate your website with Gravatar today</a> and make your comment sections come alive!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Jul 2024 21:41:58 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"Ronnie Burt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:21;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"Do The Woo Community: A Journey to WordPress and Contributing with Birgit Olzem\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84922\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"https://dothewoo.io/a-journey-to-wordpress-and-contributing-with-birgit-olzem/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33431:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nBobWP: Hey, BobWP, yes, it&#8217;s me. You&#8217;re probably wondering what I&#8217;m doing here on The WordPress Way, DEIB. We decided to do something a little bit different this month. That doesn&#8217;t mean that you are going to be missing our wonderful host that is usually here, Birgit, but we thought this time let&#8217;s learn about Birgit. I mean, I&#8217;ve had a few hosts on different shows, and we&#8217;ve learned more about their journey, and it&#8217;s always fun, and I&#8217;ll probably even learn things I don&#8217;t know. So I am looking forward to it. So yeah, Birgit is here. Hello, Birgit, how you doing?\n\n\n\nBirgit: Hello, Bob. I&#8217;m doing fine, thanks, and thanks for sharing the idea or turning tables. It&#8217;s interesting.\n\n\n\nBobWP: It&#8217;s fun. It&#8217;s always fun. I did that in the very early years when we had three co-hosts. I did a kind of highlight. I called it Unplugged. Each one of them unplugged, and we just went through their own story and learned a little bit more about them. So I&#8217;m excited for it. And I think the best way to start is everybody&#8217;s always curious, especially some people because you&#8217;ve heard it so many times, but I don&#8217;t even know if I have heard how you got into WordPress or what drove you to WordPress. So why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about that?\n\n\n\nBirgit: Well, that is kind of funny, but also interesting for those who don&#8217;t know me yet, especially or didn&#8217;t see, I am a white woman almost 50 years now, and I&#8217;m a mom of five almost grown-up children, and I also have already two grandchildren. My ex-husband back in the day was a truck driver, so I was over the weekdays alone with all our children. And when my children went to bed, I had a lot of time to spend, and I was always a curious person. I learned about computers back in school, and I went to a business school and learned about Word, Excel, bookkeeping, all the stuff. And when we got our first personal computer, I was always in. And then when we got the internet, I was sucked in. I opened a new reel to my perception. So I need to preface this a little bit because it&#8217;s kind of funny.\n\n\n\nImagine a woman breastfeeding one of the children, sitting next to a computer in a chat room, and talking about stuff, and someone shared a link to a personal website. I was so stoked about that. I was so curious. Oh, I want to build websites myself. How does it function? I&#8217;m always a person who wants to look behind the curtains and how things work. And then I went down this rabbit hole, learning about HTML, how to build websites with iframes and tables. So crazy. And no, none of those websites are live anymore, so I can&#8217;t share them with the world today. But yeah, pivoting from HTML, and then you have to change everything. When you want to change, you have to change the navigation on every page when you build it in classic HTML and so on. And I was tired of that. So how can I get dynamic data too? So I learned about PHP and some frameworks and how to do that, and somehow I stumbled upon Typeform and B2/cafelog back in the day, and I was like, interesting. You can publish something and put it in the world without worrying about changing any hardcoded links to something. So I played with that, and then I learned that B2/cafelog would be discontinued, and it was forked by someone and called it WordPress. And I was one of the persons who installed WordPress on their web servers from this first release. I played around, but I wasn&#8217;t really serious about it yet back in the day. But in 2005, I was asked to build a website for someone. I didn&#8217;t use WordPress for building websites, just playing and fiddling around with my personal projects.\n\n\n\nBut it meant I started to get self-employed as a side hustle to be more legal and serious about it. And since then, oh wow, always as a side hustle, I learned more about website building, and I didn&#8217;t have the chance to go to some form of professional training. Everything I know today I taught myself scrolling through the internet. Selfhtml.de was one of my plates. I learned a lot about just asking questions and checking other blog posts. And then when YouTube started to be a thing, I learned about that. I also experimented with Joomla, Drupal, Typo3, which is more popular in Germany, and so on. I also managed one time I was working with a primary direct marketing with call center and address data management and so on. I went to my boss one day and told him, our website sucks, it doesn&#8217;t look very good. And he told me, okay, come up with a new concept. I did it in one week, and then I founded the web design department in that company. Wow. I pivoted from a mom with five children learning HTML and designing websites in the afternoon and when the kids are asleep or something to running a web design department in a small business company, we had around 150 employees back in the day. So building websites and also later building apps and using WordPress as a data management backend. When REST API became a thing, I&#8217;m more of a generalist because I have multiple interests. Maybe my divergent traits come into play on that. But on the other hand, it&#8217;s ongoing consistency in my life building websites and fiddling around with new stuff and maybe sometimes running after the new shiny objects. So I&#8217;m kind of weak for these shiny objects, but on the other hand, it&#8217;s always sparking new ideas and so on.\n\n\n\nAnd that is how I came to WordPress. And then I was building websites. And then I found a theme framework called the Extreme theme, which was utilizing back in the day the YAML CSS framework. It&#8217;s like today, the Bootstrap or Tailwind CSS framework. But YAML was the other part, and it&#8217;s kind of a page builder theme back in the day. I was really interested and founded by a German workforce engineer. He unfortunately passed away too early back in the years, but I was part of the forum members. We grew friendship over that. And someday he talked about, oh, I&#8217;m going to a WordCamp in Berlin, and you need to come. And I was, Ooh, I am a girl in a rural area in western Germany, and I have five children. I don&#8217;t go to a big city like Berlin. But somehow I managed to go to the WordCamp.\n\n\n\nI met with the people I adored back in the day, people who ran blogs like Frank Bültge, co-founder of Inpsyde. I learned that those people are normal people like you and me. But somehow back in the day, I put people on a pedestal because I looked up to them. But on the other hand, it was really good. This stoked me with the WordPress community. It was my first encounter, and this was 2010, and I was infected by the WordPress event virus. I needed to go to WordCamp. Then I learned about, oh, you can contribute to WordPress, to the project, and you can help with that. And so we grew, and then 2011 was my next WordCamp in Cologne, which is more nearby in my hometown. But also 2011, a big pivot year in my personal life because I finally separated from my then-husband living in a toxic marriage.\n\n\n\nI lost a good friend of mine to cancer in the same year. Two years earlier, my mom died. So there was so much going on in my life, but WordPress and building websites were always a consistent pillar in my life. Then I met Robert Windisch, you know him, the man with the hat, the other hat. Robert was also one of the founding partners of a site back in the day called Inpsyde. In 2009, I specialized in training WordPress instead of just building websites, and I ran individual training for small business owners and small companies and so on. I joined forces with them in 2012, first as a self-employed contract trainer, and later they took the leap and employed me on a part-time job. One of the first tasks when I&#8217;m not training, I should have maintained the translations for WordPress in German.\n\n\n\nFor those who don&#8217;t know how that works, I need to go into that because it&#8217;s really important. The agency site was founded because of some people who joined forces and translating WordPress back in the day was translating in the code. Can you imagine translating and changing the original code? It&#8217;s a no-go today. So for everyone who doesn&#8217;t know, don&#8217;t work and edit core software. They started a community forum, and over that, they grew and got asked for contracts and so on. They built a company. That is a long time ago, but over the years, they always maintained the German translation for WordPress in two variants. One is the informal, it&#8217;s the default version, but also the formal translation for formal speech. In Germany, we have two different forms of that. So it means you need to maintain two language sets.\n\n\n\nBack in the day, we also needed to alter some files of the core software before we could release a German language pack and the German compiled version. When I started translating WordPress as an employee of Inpsyde or outside, I learned how to compile WordPress. Imagine, a tired Birgit. The kids are asleep, and I&#8217;m sitting there waiting in the IRC chat room for the WordPress core to get the announcement that a new version was released because then I needed to go to compile the translation files. I prepared and tested beforehand with the original file, and then go to the backend of WordPress.org and compile a package and then push the button for release. So imagine this kind\n\n\n\nof sweating, dripping experience in the middle of the night because the majority of the developers were sitting in the US, based more in San Francisco.\n\n\n\nSo the time zone shift to Germany was something. So it&#8217;s gotten easier over the years, but this experience and my natural curiosity, which comes with my larger divergent trait, was always leading the path where I am currently now. So contributing to WordPress and building communities, fostering relationships. So in 2013, when Remkus de Vries and Zé Fontainhas founded the WordCamp Europe, this was my first international WordCamp. So in 2013, 11 years ago, that opened another gate. In 2013, I was privileged with the travel assistance program, or I learned about the travel assistance program for the community summit, and I traveled to WordCamp San Francisco and Community Summit in 2014. This was my first touchdown on US soil. That&#8217;s crazy. It&#8217;s so crazy. Given the fact that I, as a mom of five children, divorced back in 2014, I was just joining a new partnership after three years of being a single parent and leaving my children.\n\n\n\nThe majority were already older now, but my youngest was eight and a half years old, my youngest, back in 2014. Also, being a person with mobility issues, it is kind of challenging to travel internationally. But this is a backstory of how I got involved with WordPress and how I started contributing to WordPress and fell in love with the community. I really fell because I care a lot about the people. And that brings me to today, why I am so advocating for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. Because I come from a position where I had to think about how I can feed my children the next day. So low income because of different circumstances, having a part-time job over all the years, not filling the fridge and dealing with a toxic marriage and so on, getting no child support and all the stuff. I know how it feels to be not that privileged.\n\n\n\nEven if I&#8217;m living in a privileged country, I live in Germany, I&#8217;m in a pretty safe space. We have a decent healthcare system. But still, given all that, I see a lot of injustice, and where I see injustice, I am going to fight for that. I try to be the voice for those who can&#8217;t raise their voices, even if it&#8217;s someone who&#8217;s introverted or doesn&#8217;t know where to speak or who to speak with to change things. A good friend of mine phrased it. I&#8217;m some kind of an overarching glue to all within the community because as someone who&#8217;s a generalist and not a specialist in a certain area, I know a lot, but on the surface, only in certain areas, I&#8217;m more likely to dive deep. But yeah, so that is helping to connect. I&#8217;m more the person who connects others, and that is why I&#8217;m advocating so much.\n\n\n\nAnd I&#8217;m also not shy to speak out when I see there&#8217;s injustice. But I also try to consider and not to dive into some kind of drama. Even if I see drama unfold on social media like Twitter or X now or whatever it&#8217;s called today, I try to find all voices within this drama and see, okay, what is this side? What is this side? Where do we have some kind of overlap? And then I try to be constructive with my feedback. So I don&#8217;t want to fuel the fire, but not shutting down the fire but giving it direction in a productive way. And that is why I&#8217;m always asking to have some kind of an overview above the organization of the WordPress open source ecosystem, how we can make sure that everyone is treated equally, that everyone gets the same chance even if they don&#8217;t have the same starting point.\n\n\n\nSo especially WordPress as an open-source system. And when you see I am with WordPress since its first release, I saw a lot of progress, but still, we have so many areas where you don&#8217;t have to know how to code and that is not that obvious. But on the other hand, it&#8217;s also not so attractive for some companies to put money on those areas of the WordPress ecosystem where there&#8217;s also a lot of work to do. And since I&#8217;m thinking about this accessibility team, which makes sure that the software project and everything issues like needing to raise assistive technology, but also for someone with neurodivergence is the UX and so on. The next part is documentation. How many contributors do we have which are sponsored to document our fast-pacing software development, but also community and making sure that areas like the DEIB within WordPress so that the DEIB principles can be applied in the daily work of the majority of people who are volunteers so they don&#8217;t get some formal training on how to behave, even if it might be common sense in certain areas of the world to treat people nicely and kindly.\n\n\n\nWe have a worldwide project which also has a lot of different cultures and histories and sees the diversity not only in the color of the skin, diversity also the diverse range of age, the diverse range of knowledge where people are coming from. So when I compare myself with a core developer who got some formal training at MIT, for instance, so I can&#8217;t compare myself, it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m self-educated, but on the other hand, I have traits and knowledge in other areas where we can combine those and create a better experience for everyone. So yeah, it&#8217;s a long story to share.\n\n\n\nBobWP: A lot to unpack there. Yeah, and one of the interesting things, you went through a lot of different phases, you touched on a lot of different things there. No wonder we connected so well. You and I have so many similarities, just not in the timeline, but in attitude and how we feel about things. I think you started with the first release, and I started like you, just dabbling in 2006. The interesting thing with me was I&#8217;d already been doing marketing, running a marketing company for 17 years prior to WordPress. In the, I believe it was, I don&#8217;t know if it was the mid or late eighties, I took a year of computer programming. I thought I needed to learn this. So I spent a year learning Cobol, Assembly Language, FORTRAN, and Basic, and it was absolutely a nightmare to me. I mean, I was fascinated by computers.\n\n\n\nI loved doing what I could do, but getting inside of them, opposite of you, was fearful. It was like, whoa. But having done that got me very comfortable with computers too, which I don&#8217;t regret spending that year because it just felt like I got it more than some people. And unlike you, I went in kicking and screaming into any kind of building sites, doing HTML, just horrible flash sites for a couple of clients. I knew I had to get into it owning a marketing and design business. I&#8217;d been doing print design for so many years, but when I found WordPress in 2006 and started playing with it, it was mostly around the blogging part that fascinated me. I was already into content. My wife was already doing stuff on Typepad, and she had an award-winning blog way back in the days. I discovered WordPress as a rescue for me.\n\n\n\nIt was like, wow, I can build a site using one of these themes. I got a theme from iThemes, one of their early themes, shortly after they started, and I built our own little brochure site. I thought, wow, this thing actually looks professional now and I can make changes. So I was forced into it, not so much ever really wanting to dive in. I was curious about the code, but not so curious as wanting to do it yet. I&#8217;ll leave that to the other people that want to do that and are good at it. But just all the things. My first WordCamp was in 2010, San Francisco. A lot of similarities. It&#8217;s amazing. Just how you got into contributing. I did kind of the different side of things. It wasn&#8217;t like official contributions, but it was educating, consulting, writing, being more of a teacher and trainer in WordPress all those years. So we both went on similar paths. We&#8217;ve been privileged, but in the sense that we went through some very rough times in our business and stuff, and some really tense times, and you have more empathy. I feel like I have it because I am always thinking of the other person and how they feel versus just what I&#8217;m thinking.\n\n\n\nBirgit: Yeah, it&#8217;s really interesting and you mentioned something about this empathy part, but also caring a lot about other people. And when I had some rough times, I mentioned I went from a toxic marriage to being a single parent and fighting for the rights of my children, et cetera. I&#8217;m very vocal about my history and sometimes I was so hard struggling with my mental health and also all the stuff going on in my life. But as I mentioned, WordPress and the community are always some of the stable pillars in my life, and I&#8217;ve spoken about that already. I shared it in some talks at a WordCamp. WordPress literally saved my life at some point in my life where maybe I said a trigger warning. I had moments in my life where I was questioning if it&#8217;s worthwhile to stay alive and then I just vented it out and spoke to someone and I reached out to someone and they immediately jumped in and supported me.\n\n\n\nThat is a moment in my life where I always tear up when I&#8217;m sharing that, even in the darkest moments, when you have the courage to reach out to someone, even if it&#8217;s a stranger on the internet, you may have built a relationship over the internet. But so many people in this community jumped in supporting me. The recent example was collecting funds so that I could afford to travel to WordCamp Europe and to Sweden this year. The WordPress community has my back all the time when I reach out and am vocal about and share my vulnerability. So to be vulnerable is not a bad thing. As long as we turn our\n\n\n\nvulnerability into something we can grow and build upon, and create more empathy for someone else who may have a similar struggle. I learned about that my crowdfunding campaign this year to go to WordCamp Europe inspired someone to take action in another similar direction and also see their initiatives like the WP Community Collective.\n\n\n\nThey got inspired by the crowdfunding campaign to fund contributors to travel to WordCamps. We have great initiatives that support speakers to travel to WordCamps, but someone who is contributing to WordPress and doesn&#8217;t have, maybe due to several facts, the ability to afford to travel, but to be accepted as the speaker at a WordCamp. That is something I learned about, even if I shared my vulnerability, not to earn empathy, but just to share, Hey, I feel this way now. So if someone has something to spare, I&#8217;m really appreciative of this. But thinking about looking back on that, how much this might have positively affected someone else. So in retrospect, everything I touched in my life had somehow affected someone else&#8217;s life. That is how I always also try to be alert to everything I do, how someone else&#8217;s life may be influenced by that. I&#8217;m not forcing that, but I try to consider every decision I make, does this affect someone else negatively? That is what you say about empathy.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, exactly. Let&#8217;s step back and put ourselves in this person&#8217;s shoe or from this person&#8217;s view or whatever, because a lot of times what&#8217;s being said or what&#8217;s being told, we&#8217;ve all been there. And that&#8217;s the thing a lot of people lose is the ability to go back and say, oh, I remember when I was in that spot. Like you said, traveling between costs of just traveling, especially if you&#8217;re traveling internationally, you&#8217;re taking a day or two on each end just to get there. And then you&#8217;ve got the actual event and you&#8217;re away for a week. So not only are you spending money for a lot of these people, they&#8217;re not making money during that time. They don&#8217;t have the luxury of being given the time off for something. They have to close down shop and do that thing, even though that may be productive and helpful to their business.\n\n\n\nBirgit: Exactly. And thinking of traveling, especially for someone with mobility issues, I need to plan ahead every move because walking distances is still kind of challenging. Even if I now have two hip replacements, Mechanically, I can walk, but my body isn&#8217;t used yet to this kind of movement. So it takes a while to get on board. Again, as someone with neurodivergent traits, I like to know where I&#8217;m going and what kind of obstacles I may face and how to get from A to B in the most effective way so it doesn&#8217;t drain my energy too much so I can be alert when I&#8217;m there. But it&#8217;s still also overwhelming meeting new people and a lot of people at events like WordCamp Europe, WordCamp US, or WordCamp Asia. These are the flagship events with 2,000 or 3,000 attendees. And also traveling abroad internationally, it&#8217;s always challenging to the body, even if someone is healthy and fit. It&#8217;s draining.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, it&#8217;s brutal, is what it is. Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit: So thinking of someone who has more mobility issues or someone who has more weight on their bones than someone else, finding a good safe spot to sit. I experienced entering some chairs with very unfortunate positions of armrests and so on, which my butt didn&#8217;t fit in really well.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s kind of difficult to sit down, but on the other hand, I can&#8217;t assume that everyone can acknowledge that beforehand, but I can share my experience. For instance, I tend to speak to WordCamp organizers, especially WordCamp Europe and WordCamp US, to make sure that there are enough seating positions also in the hallways so that people who might need to take a rest, especially for someone we are barely out of the pandemic, and the pandemic showed up that someone who was infected with this viral infection can suffer from syndromes like chronic fatigue. You don&#8217;t see that when someone is challenged with chronic fatigue syndrome. So you have to take a rest because you are going out of breath when you are walking 20 meters or 30 meters, so you may need to take a rest. So to make sure that the WordCamp event or the WordPress event venue accommodates the situation, not only do we need accessible restrooms, and hopefully the cleaning staff doesn&#8217;t put any cleaning supplies within the accessible restrooms so that someone with a wheelchair can&#8217;t navigate.\n\n\n\nThat is also an example when you see something where you see, okay, this might affect someone else. Going back to the empathy part, if you see something, maybe the instance I experienced at WordCamp Europe on the first conference day and I went to the restroom as someone with mobility issues, I prefer accessible restrooms because they&#8217;re more convenient to use, even if I don&#8217;t have a wheelchair. But not having a wheelchair is not an excuse not to use accessible restrooms for everyone who wants to judge why someone is using an accessible restroom. Even if they can walk, there may have other reasons to use an accessible restroom, just to note. But I imagine I witnessed that the cleaning staff had their cart with all the cleaning supplies and if someone with a wheelchair would have accessed the room, they wouldn&#8217;t have had any chance to navigate through that because the washing thing was blocked. I reported that immediately to the organizing team, and they went to the venue facility manager and it was solved the next day because it was the end of the event. But yeah.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, I was just thinking those wet floor signs that they put out too could be a real issue because they have to try to put it somewhere where you can see it, but that could be right in the way too.\n\n\n\nBirgit: Yeah, exactly. And that is something when you see, and that is why I urge everyone to first use common sense, then ask yourself, does this affect someone else negatively? I can&#8217;t expect that everyone knows everything, but if you have someone in your family or friend surroundings who may have faced some issues, try to be advocating for their convenience if possible. We can&#8217;t please everyone to be fair, so we can do as much as possible even if we can&#8217;t accommodate everything and include everyone and everything. But to be in a balance and make it, because there&#8217;s a saying, talking about also WordPress websites, having accessible WordPress websites, it&#8217;s not only benefiting those who need it but benefits everyone. Accessibility benefits everyone. And that is also true for venue traveling, et cetera.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been great because this has not only been learning about everything you do or have done and then how you got into your passion around what you&#8217;re doing on this show but also a conversation about it. So it was just a very nice rounded chat we had. And we can see why you do this once a month on here at Do the Woo. So this is very cool and I appreciate being able to turn the table and I think everybody likes to learn a little bit more about our hosts. And I&#8217;m just going to throw this out. It&#8217;s a little bit of an opportunity. I haven&#8217;t had a chance to talk about it regarding our news site. So for those of you that listen to various shows, we do have a way now we have our sponsors, which I adore, and they make this whole thing possible.\n\n\n\nBut there is another way of giving back to this show and that is supporting each specific show. And what that means is you can go in and you can give a one-time gift or you can subscribe for a couple of different amounts, but that money actually will go to the host of the show. It doesn&#8217;t go into running the show or anything. And as Birgit mentioned, she&#8217;s been lucky to have the support of the community. And that&#8217;s what this is going to be. It will either help the hosts themselves with their contributions, the time they spend on that, their travel. And for some of our hosts, maybe they don&#8217;t feel they need that because of their position and where they are at this time in their life. And they&#8217;ll say, Hey, let&#8217;s give it to one of these related WordPress organizations that do help speakers and contributor travel.\n\n\n\nSo if you&#8217;ve been listening to a show and you&#8217;re really getting into it and you want to give something back to that show&#8217;s host, we&#8217;ll pull that together, figure out what to do with it, and you&#8217;re actually supporting them because they&#8217;re driving all the shows and they&#8217;re doing all the front face work and stuff. I&#8217;m just running behind the scenes doing all the other stuff, except occasionally I come in and have the opportunity to do great interviews and chats with my friends like this. So I appreciate it. And yeah, this has been absolutely wonderful. Anything you want to say before we sign off?\n\n\n\nBirgit: Yeah, on the first end, I really want to thank you again, Bob first for creating this kind of great show and place to learn, but also offering the spot for people like me to talk about topics we care about a lot, but also giving someone else a voice where they can share also their story and learnings so that everyone can benefit from that. I am also very appreciative of all the work you are doing in the backend, which is not seen by everyone. So a special shout out again to you, but for the listeners, I want to say if you want to go and make a difference, there are several ways you can join the WordPress community and you don&#8217;t need to know how to code. There are certain areas where you can contribute your time and knowledge. And if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I&#8217;m Coach Birgit on all the socials on the Make WordPress Slack. Also, you can reach out to Bob if you have any questions. We are really happy to guide you in the right direction where you can contribute your passion to the project.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Well, thank you and thank everyone for listening. If you&#8217;re not subscribed, you can subscribe to the\n\n\n\nold channel, or you can just subscribe to your favorite show. And we are trying to push more people back to commenting. This is my own little mission. I would love for you to come in on the post and comment and share your thoughts on anything we talked about. Of course, Birgit is always looking for wonderful guests that want to come in and talk around the issue of DEIB. So please consider that as well. And my final thank you to Birgit for being a wonderful guest.\n\n\n\nBirgit: Thank you for being a wonderful host.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this special episode of The WordPress Way, DEIB, BobWP turns the tables and has a chat with our regular host, <a href=\"https://dothewoo.io/host/birgit-olzem/\">Birgit Olzem</a>. You will learn about Birgit&#8217;s fascinating journey with WordPress, from her early days of learning HTML while caring for her children to becoming a pivotal contributor and advocate for diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging within the WordPress community. \n\n\n\nBirgit shares her personal story of overcoming challenges, building a career in web design, and finding strength and support in the WordPress community. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of her passion, resilience, and dedication to fostering a more inclusive and empathetic tech space. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nBirgit&#8217;s Journey to WordPress: Birgit&#8217;s journey began with her curiosity about computers and web design, leading her to discover WordPress and become an early adopter.\n\n\n\nCommunity Support: The WordPress community has been a consistent pillar of support for Birgit, providing assistance during her challenging times and helping her attend events through crowdfunding.\n\n\n\nDiversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging (DEIB): Birgit is a strong advocate for DEIB within the WordPress community, driven by her own experiences of overcoming adversity and recognizing the importance of equitable opportunities for all.\n\n\n\nContributing to WordPress: Birgit&#8217;s contributions to WordPress include translating the software into German, founding a web design department, and providing training to small business owners. She emphasizes that contributing doesn&#8217;t always require coding skills.\n\n\n\nEmpathy and Advocacy: Birgit&#8217;s personal struggles have instilled a deep sense of empathy, driving her to fight against injustice and advocate for those who may not have a voice.\n\n\n\nChallenges of Traveling with Mobility Issues: Birgit highlights the difficulties faced by individuals with mobility issues when traveling to events and emphasizes the need for accessible accommodations.\n\n\n\nImpact of Vulnerability: Sharing her vulnerabilities has not only brought Birgit personal support but also inspired others in the community to take action and support each other.\n\n\n\nRole of the WordPress Community: The WordPress community is depicted as a supportive and inclusive space where individuals can find help, build relationships, and contribute to a larger mission.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 29 Jul 2024 08:09:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:22;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:30:\"Matt: Happy Birthday, Charleen\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=117889\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"https://ma.tt/2024/07/happy-birthday-charleen/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4859:\"I&#8217;ve had many blessings in my life, but the very first was the family I was born into. Today, I&#8217;d like to tell you about my only sibling, favorite sister, and best beloved, <a href=\"https://charleen.mullenweg.com/\">Charleen Mullenweg</a>.\n\n\n\nWith a gap of nine and a half years between us, we could have easily been distant from each other, but it was almost like I had a third parent, one who was just the coolest person I could imagine in the universe. My sister paved the way for me, giving my parents lots of experience and training, so they were pretty chill by the time I came along. As a very young kid, I didn&#8217;t always understand what was going on. For example, one time, I remember getting jealous of all the gifts she was getting&#8230; gifts given after a really intense surgery for severe scoliosis (twisted spine) that required her to wear a brace for many years. She was always gracious and understanding towards the little kid following her around everywhere and trying to be like her.\n\n\n\nHowever, Charleen never wavered in being my biggest supporter, despite how annoying I must have been as an eager kid a decade her junior. All of my early aesthetic and musical tastes were derivative of her early discovery of cool bands like The Police, U2, Counting Crows, and Concrete Blonde. Despite being labeled with her initials, I&#8217;d &#8220;borrow&#8221; all her CDs and tapes. We&#8217;d make each other mixes and share books.\n\n\n\nI&#8217;ve never doubted that no matter what I did, Charleen would always back me up, as she said &#8220;I&#8217;m behind you 1000%.&#8221; I missed her dearly when she moved to Austin in the 90s, far before everyone else figured out how cool Austin was, but that just meant countless road trips to visit and crash on her couch. The distance didn&#8217;t keep her from being there for every holiday and major event, including when I started to have jazz performances or host technology events in town. Whatever my interest was, she was there and supportive. As WordCamps started to become a thing, <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2009/05/wordcamp-sf-2009-2/mcm_0647-2/\">she was there</a>. I always knew however much I messed up or people were mad at me (there were lots!) I could look out and see my sister&#8217;s face, there to comfort me.\n\n\n\nHer influence on me didn&#8217;t stop with music and art. Charleen&#8217;s early research into genealogy, which included deep dives into libraries and making rubbings of gravestones, couldn&#8217;t be more perfect for my first foray into relational databases. We learned together how to set up the structures in MySQL and phpMyAdmin to represent all of the genealogical information in tables, which complemented the PHP I was learning to <a href=\"https://mullenweg.com/\">create Mullenweg.com</a>, still up today. Before I built any other content management systems the first content I was managing was Charleen&#8217;s and my Uncle Colin&#8217;s research.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re a sibling and want to be as awesome as Charleen, start with this: Unflappable, unwavering support, and honesty. My entrepreneurial path was not straight up and to the right: It included many twists and turns, close calls, borrowing money, huge mistakes, but I always knew Charleen was a phone call away. Her sharp intellect was able to slice through whatever I was struggling with, able to back and support me however I needed in that situation. You can jump further when you feel like you have a safety net, and my family has always been that for me. There have been times when it felt like the entire internet was calling for my head, nobody liked me, I couldn&#8217;t do anything right, but Charleen was always there.\n\n\n\nThey say there&#8217;s family you choose and family that you&#8217;re born with. Well, if there&#8217;s any sliver of truth to the idea from a movie like <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_(2020_film)\">Pixar&#8217;s Soul</a> that you have some choice in the matter of where you end up being born, I&#8217;m delighted that I chose to be born as a little brother to Charleen. Because we saw so many other examples of familial relationships torn asunder, we never wanted that to happen to us, so we&#8217;ve always maintained that ability to just let things go that don&#8217;t really matter as much as your lifelong bond.\n\n\n\nCharleen, thank you for a lifetime of love and support, from my first breaths to our latest adventures. You inspire me to be a better human. I can&#8217;t imagine being as successful at anything I&#8217;ve done in life without you there behind me. I&#8217;ll do my best to follow your example of always being behind you 1000%. You&#8217;re the best sister I ever could have wished for. At this half-century mark, let us count our blessings and plan many more shenanigans. \";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 28 Jul 2024 05:15:02 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:23;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:70:\"WPTavern: #129 – Eneko Garrido on How WordPress Transformed His Life\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=157542\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:84:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/129-eneko-garrido-on-how-wordpress-transformed-his-life\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32904:\"Transcript<div>\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case how a visit to a WordCamp profoundly changed a life.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players. If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you, and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Eneko Garrido. Eneko is a full stack developer who has made\n\n\n\nsignificant contributions to the WordPress community since attending his first WordCamp in 2019. Eneko&#8217;s journey with WordPress began when he attended WordCamp Bilbao during a challenging time in his life, marked by anxiety and depression. This pivotal experience, not only transformed his career, but also enriched his personal life. Leading him to become a passionate contributor and advocate for the WordPress community.\n\n\n\nWe start off by discussing Eneko&#8217;s initial encounter with WordCamp Bilbao, where he felt a profound sense of belonging, and support from the vibrant WordPress community. Despite his initial hesitations, Eneko was drawn to the inclusive and welcoming environment, which motivated him to participate more actively in future WordCamps.\n\n\n\nEneko goes on to share how his role as a polyglot contributor for the Basque locale has been a consistent source of joy and purpose. His commitment to translating WordPress into Basque has not only helped the community, but also deepened his connection to his cultural heritage.\n\n\n\nWe get into the impact that word process had on Eneko&#8217;s life, from opening new career opportunities to fostering lasting friendships. Eneko credits the WordPress community with providing him with a supportive network that has helped him navigate various challenges, including his autism diagnosis in 2021.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast we discuss Eneko&#8217;s preparations for delivering a talk at WordCamp Europe, a testament to his growth and confidence since this first WordCamp experience. Despite the daunting prospect of speaking to a large audience, Eneko remains resolute and grateful for the supportive community that has been instrumental in his journey.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in hearing a heartfelt story about the life-changing potential of the WordPress community, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Eneko Garrido.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast by Eneko Garrido. How are you doing?\n\n\n\n[00:03:38] Eneko Garrido: I&#8217;m fine. I&#8217;m here in Torino today, and we are enjoying WordCamp Europe together.\n\n\n\n[00:03:43] Nathan Wrigley: Have you been to any WordCamps before?\n\n\n\n[00:03:46] Eneko Garrido: Yes. WordCamps, yes, but this is my first WordCamp Europe. My first WordCamp was in 2019, that was WordCamp Bilbao. And since then, I tried to go to any WordCamp that I could. Today I&#8217;m here thanks to Yoast, because Yoast fund me with the diversity fund.\n\n\n\n[00:04:04] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, nice. I did not know that, but that&#8217;s really nice to know.\n\n\n\nThe WordPress community in Spain, by all accounts, is really strong at the moment. I know that a lot of countries have gone into a state of decline, really. Certainly in the UK, a lot of the events that were happening, 2019 was the last time they happened, and then Covid came and it didn&#8217;t really come back. But my understanding is that in Spain, it&#8217;s still a very vibrant community.\n\n\n\nNow, you mentioned WordCamp in Bilbao. That&#8217;s going to be the main thing that we&#8217;re going to talk about today, because you&#8217;re doing an intriguing talk at WordCamp Europe. But before we get into that, will you just tell us a little bit about you. Stay away from the WordCamp Bilbao thing, but just tell us what you do on a daily basis. What&#8217;s your relationship with WordPress?\n\n\n\n[00:04:46] Eneko Garrido: Okay, so I am a full stack developer. I have been working for the Renfe Group as a full stack developer. The Renfe Group is the Spanish railway company, the Spanish state owned railway company. Nowadays, I am not working because I left that job, and I live in Bilbao. So I am currently searching for new opportunities.\n\n\n\n[00:05:08] Nathan Wrigley: Well, thank you for telling us all about that. So first of all, I&#8217;m just going to read off my piece of paper in front of me, about what the subject is going to be. And just to let you know, dear listener, I often go through the WordCamp presentation titles, and I find ones that I think are going to be of interest to the listeners to this podcast, and I picked Eneko&#8217;s one, and let&#8217;s see how this conversation goes.\n\n\n\nNormally I write down a whole ton of questions, and I know more or less what I&#8217;m going to ask. But in this case, it&#8217;s going to be more of a conversation. We&#8217;ll see where it goes. And it goes like this. So the podcast discussion subject, how the WordPress community changed my life: how joining the community after having a bad lifetime changed the way to see the world. And it sounds like, at some point in the past, you were having a difficult time. And then you discovered that there was a thing called WordCamp Bilbao, you attended, and in your own words, the community changed your life. So let&#8217;s go back, rewind the clock, tell us the story.\n\n\n\n[00:06:09] Eneko Garrido: So in 2019 I was finishing my compulsory studies in Spain. I was 16 year old little person that was simply trying to finish the studies, and because of some sort of depression, anxiety, I had to leave the college. I repeated that course okay. Then I was at home, and I seen on the WordPress dashboard of my own website that I run, that one event was near me, that was WordCamp Bilbao.\n\n\n\nAt that moment, I was living in Pamplona, the city that I have born on. I seen WordCamp Bilbao, and I thought, what is this? I asked my parents, and they looked me like, where are you going? They said to me, do whatever you want. As you are not going classes and you are all day in bed, you can take the bus, go to the grandfather&#8217;s house that is in Bilbao, it&#8217;s the place that I am currently living, and go to that WordCamp.\n\n\n\nThe first day of that WordCamp was a little bit strange, because was in a maritime museum. I didn&#8217;t went there in my life. There was three tracks. One that was announced as basic. The other one was as advanced, and the other one was, I don&#8217;t know what was announced like. It was a little bit strange because I was there alone, didn&#8217;t know anything and anyone.\n\n\n\nThe day passed with some few things that I remember. The person that was here seated, Fernando Tellado, he wasn&#8217;t going to that specific WordCamp, and that was a little strange thing, because Fernando Tellado has normally goes to every WordCamp in Spain, and I didn&#8217;t know who was Fernando Tellado. And I remember the moment that someone went to the stage and said, now we are going to call Fernando Tellado by phone, because Fernando Tellado is not here. We are going to call him, and talk with him in a moment. And was like, but who is Fernando Tellado? And later on I discovered who was Fernando Tellado, and then I understand everything.\n\n\n\nI remember the moment when I connected really with the community. Was a moment on the contributor day. On the contributor day, I didn&#8217;t know neither what it was. In Bilbao 2019, the contributor day was on the Sunday, okay? So the talks were on Saturday, and the contributor today on Sunday. Because in Spain, normally we do like that. Here in Torino has been the other way. Going to the contributor day, didn&#8217;t know what that was, with my computer on the backpack.\n\n\n\nI&#8217;ve seen that was like some tables, with some topics like community, core, polyglots, design, all sort of things like that. And I choose the polyglots table. That was my first contributor day table. And then on the contributor day table, I met Luis Rull, that is also from the Spanish community. He&#8217;s a local manager of Spanish from Spain. He taught me to translate WordPress. And since then, every month I contribute to the WordPress translations.\n\n\n\nI remember that he took a photo, and published it on Twitter, and said, here is Eneko Garrido, 16 year old person that is a few months older than WordPress, and he&#8217;s here contributing to WordPress. And I remember that he mentioned to Matt. And that moment, I was like, who is Matt? So that was my first WordCamp experience. Until the contributor day, I didn&#8217;t network with anyone really.\n\n\n\nSo that is one thing that I said, all the WordCamps, it must be compulsory to go to contributor day, especially for the new people on the community, on the new people that is the first WordPress event. They have to be on the contributor day, because it&#8217;s the day where people is talking, is doing networking. It&#8217;s not like in that hour I have to be on that room, because here talks, I don&#8217;t know. Francisco Torres, who is a very plugin guy, who&#8217;s going to talk about the plugins team. I don&#8217;t know, I think that the contributor day should be mandatory for the first time persons on WordPress event.\n\n\n\n[00:10:36] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of interesting. So the event that we are at now is three days long. The main event is two days long, and then there&#8217;s contributor day at the beginning. And exactly as you said, it&#8217;s the one day where more or less everybody&#8217;s in the same room at the same time, and they&#8217;re free to divert their attention, if you walk over and have a conversation with them.\n\n\n\nWhereas, on the other two days, a lot of people are in conversations in the hallway, but also a lot of people are in presentations, and everybody&#8217;s got to be quiet, and you&#8217;re listening to the speaker and all that. So I completely get what you mean. The contributor day is a really important thing if you want to socialise.\n\n\n\nCan I just go back, and you may not wish to reveal any of what I&#8217;m about to ask, and if you don&#8217;t, that&#8217;s fine, and we&#8217;ll exclude it from the podcast. But I&#8217;m just curious as to what was going on in your life at that time? Because I want to get to a point where we see the contrast between then and now. Because it feels like that is the story, the contrast of what you were like as that 16 year old, spending time in the house. It sounds from what you were saying that you didn&#8217;t get up, and didn&#8217;t have a lot of motivation, or interest and what have you. Are you willing to tell us what was going on? You don&#8217;t have to give us everything. You don&#8217;t have to give us anything, but if you are willing, then please feel free.\n\n\n\n[00:11:49] Eneko Garrido: At that time, I was, as I said, finishing the studies. Through all my life, practically, I have suffered from bullying at the school. So going to school was, every day was, making harder for me. At that time I was having anxiety issues, some anxiety attacks in class. I had to quit from classes in the middle of the explanations of the teacher. And that was also because of my autism. I am autistic, and until 2021 I didn&#8217;t get an official diagnosis. That was the time that I went to the adult psychiatrist, because the young people psychiatrist of the public Spanish system, if you don&#8217;t say that you&#8217;re autistic when you born, they don&#8217;t say until you are 18 years old.\n\n\n\nSo at 2021 my psychiatrist said that, and from that time I started knowing me more, and understanding more things about me, like my ironies that I don&#8217;t catch. The ironies that people don&#8217;t catch about me. My really fear to socialise, fear and difficulty also to socialise. And until then I didn&#8217;t understand that much about me. That was probably why I was passing a bad time, and I decided to go to a WordCamp that I saw on my webpage.\n\n\n\n[00:13:16] Nathan Wrigley: Let&#8217;s just unpack that a little bit. So you&#8217;re obviously inside WordPress, you must have a website or something at this point, because you can see the dashboard. It may be that if you&#8217;re listening to this, you may have disabled this feature, but there&#8217;s a feature in the dashboard by default of WordPress, which is events. And it will geolocate, and it will tell you if there&#8217;s things coming up nearby.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s text on a screen. How on earth did you summon up the, let&#8217;s use the word courage, to see the text on the screen and think, yeah, that sounds like it could be, I don&#8217;t know, fun or whatever? Because, from everything that you said, my imagination goes to, you&#8217;ll see that, think, okay, there&#8217;s a WordCamp in Bilbao, I&#8217;m not going to that. What pushed you over the edge, because that sounds like an incredibly big jump?\n\n\n\n[00:14:03] Eneko Garrido: The thing that pushed me to the edge really was the, not the word, the camp. So the part camp of the word WordCamp was what pushed me to the edge, because sounds like something more interesting than meet up. When I listen meet up, I say, okay, so meet up. People join together, and people that know each other join together to talk about something, okay. But when you listen the WordCamp, you think about the school camps. The camps that your parents send you on in summer. And I said, oh, that WordPress camp, oh, that must be very interesting. I could learn about it.\n\n\n\nI clicked on WordCamp Bilbao, on the link, and that sent me to the WordCamp Bilbao page. And I saw, oh, there is a program with two days of things. I don&#8217;t know who is going to talk about, I don&#8217;t know, SEO, or security, or performance, but it seems very interesting this. That pushed me, and I said, okay, 20 Euros, perfect. The best 20 Euros I have spent on my life really.\n\n\n\n[00:15:10] Nathan Wrigley: Really remarkable. Also I&#8217;ve never heard it, you know, the WordCamp being such a profound change there. It associated in your head with, I don&#8217;t know, fun, or having something a little bit different. So you took yourself there, you got in the room, it was the contributor day, and I&#8217;m guessing from everything that you described about your relationship with being sociable, and I think you said you find that difficult to do.\n\n\n\nHow did you overcome that? Because I can also imagine you arriving at the venue and getting to the stairs and thinking, I&#8217;m just going to go home. So in you go. Was it a welcoming environment? Did you immediately connect with people, or was it a much more slow process? Where at the end of it you thought, well, that wasn&#8217;t too bad, or was it, well, that was fabulous, or somewhere in between?\n\n\n\n[00:16:00] Eneko Garrido: The first thing that I think of when I arrived to WordCamp Bilbao was the doors opening, because I arrived like five minutes before the opening, so I was like the first after the volunteers and organisers. I&#8217;ve seen ,the sponsors stands and I was like, woah, this is serious. This is a conference. Woah, there are hosting companies here. I have a contract with that people.\n\n\n\nWas like, I don&#8217;t know, they give me a bag, they give me a T-shirt, they give me some stickers. I saw also the WordPress logo with the pride flag on a pin. And that was like, woah, what is this? This is very cool. And the people was always with a smile, even when there were bad moments on the event, I don&#8217;t know, because something broke, or something like that, or people running because they arrived late for, I don&#8217;t know, always with a smile.\n\n\n\nAnd that was one thing that caught me the attention because I thought I was, I&#8217;m not going to start a conversation with anyone. I feel like I could have done that, and that people that was on a small groups, if I started and go to any group, the group will open and take me into that group. And that was one thing that WordCamp Bilbao showed me about, you have to try to be more open.\n\n\n\nAlso it is one thing that WordPress is showing me, that I have to be more open and more, I don&#8217;t know how to say it, more helpful with each other, yeah. If someone comes here for talking with me, it&#8217;s like, oh yeah, probably I interest him or she to talk with me about, I don&#8217;t know, WordPress, my life or, I don&#8217;t know, anything, or his life. Here at WordCamp Turin I have met, I don&#8217;t know how many people, but nowadays we have NFC tags that gives you the contact details of the people, and that is awesome because if I don&#8217;t feel like I want to interact with anyone, I say, I don&#8217;t have social energy, but here you have my contact, here you have my Instagram account, my X account. X account, that sounds very bad, my Twitter account please. I don&#8217;t know, it&#8217;s like, we could talk tomorrow, or I don&#8217;t know, who knows? In the next WordCamp we could meet up.\n\n\n\n[00:18:21] Nathan Wrigley: I think one of the nice things about these events, that you learn over time is that, quite a few people that you meet at one event, will actually be at the next event. And there&#8217;s also a different philosophy. So if you go to an event, let&#8217;s say, oh, I don&#8217;t know, a networking event that&#8217;s got nothing to do with WordPress, that&#8217;s in a for-profit industry, everybody&#8217;s there for the reason of selling you something, or promoting something, and the whole setup feels different. Whereas at these WordCamps, most people who are wearing the T-shirts saying that they&#8217;re organising the event, are volunteers, they&#8217;re giving up their time for free. And it&#8217;s for the greater good of this project.\n\n\n\nI often talk about this, but I still can&#8217;t work it out. I don&#8217;t know what it is about this community, but it seems to attract a whole bunch of nice people. And I think that&#8217;s one of the things, when I first attended a WordCamp, I immediately got that feeling. Just, wow, like you said, there&#8217;s smiling faces and, you know, if you wander near them, they open up, and what have you. And I just got the feeling, like a much more friendly feeling, and it stuck with me. So my first event was a WordCamp in London, and it left me with the impression, I want to do that again.\n\n\n\nDid you have that? I imagine it wasn&#8217;t perfect. There are probably things where you thought, oh, that was a bit, you know, I wish that would&#8217;ve gone better, or maybe you didn&#8217;t attend everything that you wished to, whatever it may be. But at the end of that, did you come away thinking, right, this is my clan, this is my group, I&#8217;m going to go to more of those?\n\n\n\n[00:19:51] Eneko Garrido: Yeah, I feel that. After WordCamp Bilbao, I feel like, yeah, I want more of this. The next day of the contributor day, I signed up for WordCamp Irun 2019, that was next month if I don&#8217;t remember. And I was like, woah, WordCamp Irun 2019, that also was a very special WordCamp because was a WordCamp where they invented, I think, a new format for the WordCamps, that was called WordPress on the Street.\n\n\n\nSo that was, one day, the Friday. They put it on, place to talk on the street, on the very big street of Irun. And there was people talking there about WordPress, and there was people on the bars that were in that place looking and saying, I don&#8217;t know what is WordPress, but I am enjoying of this. And there was people of the community that I didn&#8217;t know at that time. But I remember that Joan Boluda, who is very known on this WordPress world, was talking on the street for free.\n\n\n\nOne guy that sells courses online was talking about, I don&#8217;t remember what, on the street. It is a format that hasn&#8217;t been done again on Irun, and I think that could be done again, because that attracted a lot of people of Irun.\n\n\n\n[00:21:20] Nathan Wrigley: I&#8217;ve never heard of that, and I think that&#8217;s such a neat idea. If you get the location just right, and I guess you&#8217;ve got to have it near the venue, or what have you, and there are people passing by. Yeah, that&#8217;s really fascinating. I genuinely haven&#8217;t heard of that before.\n\n\n\nWhat are the bits that you found yourself being drawn towards in the community? You obviously showed up at that event, and you didn&#8217;t know which bits, well, you probably didn&#8217;t even know what tables there were going to be. After that, where have you found yourself being drawn to? Is there a bit of the community that you enjoy more, I don&#8217;t know, security, core, or whatever?\n\n\n\n[00:21:49] Eneko Garrido: I always have enjoyed polyglots team. I am also currently a GT of the Basque locale. So I submit and I approve the changes on the Basque locale translations. Since then, every WordCamp, I have been on the Polyglots table. In Bilbao, I manage myself in Bilbao, this year, I managed myself the Polyglot&#8217;s table. And we recruited new translators for Basque. Because Basque is a locale that is a little bit, not very translated. Needs a very big push.\n\n\n\nBut the thing is that, not too much people know Basque. In Spain, if you don&#8217;t do that in Bilbao, in the Basque country, you will never get someone that will translate to Basque. And I&#8217;ve been on the Core table for my first time, and that was a very good experience because I sent a pull request for Gutenberg, for making the interactivity API from JavaScript to TypeScript, for making the types, and type checking, and all sort of things to prepare it for the 6.6 release.\n\n\n\n[00:23:02] Nathan Wrigley: So you said that, since Bilbao, you&#8217;ve been to more or less all the local WordCamps. You haven&#8217;t missed anything. I guess what I&#8217;m trying to tease out of this episode, and we&#8217;re getting to that point now is, has it changed your life? Do you feel that, because it&#8217;s so difficult to imagine, when we say WordPress, it&#8217;s software. You download it from the internet, and you put it on a server, and you have a website of some kind. But it isn&#8217;t that, it&#8217;s much more than that. It&#8217;s this community, it&#8217;s a philosophy, it&#8217;s events.\n\n\n\nHow profound has it been? If you were to trace it back to that moment at Bilbao, can you honestly say that it is WordPress, and all that means, that has transformed things. And, has it made your life better? Have you got new friendships, and a better quality of life because of those friendships and so on?\n\n\n\n[00:23:50] Eneko Garrido: Yeah. If I hadn&#8217;t go to WordCamp Bilbao, I wouldn&#8217;t be here probably. And also, probably, I wouldn&#8217;t have work at the place that I was working until a few months. And I wouldn&#8217;t met a lot of people that is very good people. All people in the Spanish communities is very good people. I love them so much.\n\n\n\n[00:24:14] Nathan Wrigley: So you&#8217;ve made real friendships. Because you can make a lot of acquaintances in the WordPress space. People that you know, you know their face. You can say hi to them, but you might not, I don&#8217;t know, go out for a meal with them or something like that, and really class them as friends. But you&#8217;ve managed to make those relationships real friendships.\n\n\n\n[00:24:29] Eneko Garrido: Yeah, I made very strong relationships. For instance, with Paco Marchante, who is from the plugins team, with his girlfriend Paula Carmona. We have a group, and we talk every day. They are like my reference in friends, and I have made a very strong friendship relationship with them.\n\n\n\n[00:24:51] Nathan Wrigley: You mentioned some of the things that you have to deal with. Do you find that the way that you can communicate with your friends in WordPress, because often a lot of it&#8217;ll be, I don&#8217;t know, Slack channels or something like that, does that work better for you? So it&#8217;s not like you&#8217;re always going to be, I don&#8217;t know, meeting up in a bar, or going to a live event. A lot of it will take place on text-based things, where you can do that in the comfort of your own home. Does that aspect of it make it easier for you?\n\n\n\n[00:25:18] Eneko Garrido: Yeah, a lot. A lot because it&#8217;s like, today I don&#8217;t want to socialise, so I don&#8217;t look my phone, and everything perfect. Instead, if we meet on a bar, it&#8217;s like, no guys, I won&#8217;t be going today, sorry. And it&#8217;s like more for that. I don&#8217;t meet up at the bar for that.\n\n\n\nWith WordPress, the Slack channels are like my newsletter for all days. I try to maintain myself reading every day the Making WordPress Core Slack channel, because it&#8217;s like newsletter of WordPress, using new PRs, using new features, new bugs. Someone says one day, today is hunting day, so we are going to meet up here to review, I don&#8217;t know, review issues. Sometimes it&#8217;s like, I don&#8217;t going to text because I am a little bit shy, but I am going to read you, and I am going to follow you, and probably someday I will say something.\n\n\n\n[00:26:16] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah. I mean, it really does feel like, the way that people communicate in the WordPress community, I mean, obviously there are events like this, where you can meet up people face-to-face and what have you. But it does lend itself really well to, you can do it whilst you&#8217;re in the comfort of your own home, you can be sitting eating breakfast and having these conversations. You can have your laptop, watching the telly at the same time. You can really make the environment that you&#8217;re in really comfortable, and exactly what you want, and be socialising at the same time.\n\n\n\nNow, everything that you&#8217;ve said, we&#8217;re at the biggest WordCamp there is. It&#8217;s about 3000 people. It&#8217;s really big. And you&#8217;ve laid out this story, and yet you&#8217;re going to be given a presentation here. And first of all, how are you feeling about that? Are you feeling okay about that? Let&#8217;s just leave it like that.\n\n\n\n[00:26:58] Eneko Garrido: When I arrived the first day here, that was on the contributor day, and I saw the track one, that is the place where I am going to talk, that was like, oh, yeah, it was that big. Here fit probably 2000 people, and was like, woah. And on contributor day, when I was on the photography team as a volunteer, I went up on the stage to do some photos, to do the family photo. And I&#8217;ve seen all people there, I was like, oh, I want to go now to a local store, buy some Apple Vision Pro glasses, or something like that, that is very new. And they announce like, you won&#8217;t see anything from outside, put some images from the Alps or something like that, and start doing my slides. Because that is like, woah, I don&#8217;t know how I am going to feel tomorrow to do this.\n\n\n\n[00:27:53] Nathan Wrigley: I hope it goes well. I mean, I really do. From everything that you&#8217;ve told me, it seems like you&#8217;ve come on a really profoundly life-changing journey. Honestly, it is very, very rare that I talk to somebody, and I talk to a lot of people, whose actual life has been kind of turned upside down in a good way by the software, and the community around the software.\n\n\n\nMore often than not we&#8217;re talking about plugins, or themes, or code, or what have you. It&#8217;s deeply affecting me this story, I think it&#8217;s really amazing. And it sounds like it&#8217;s allowing you to do a lot of things that you wish to do. The community supporting you, helping you, and I hope that it goes well tomorrow. I&#8217;m sure that it&#8217;ll be fine because you know that, despite the fact that there might be large numbers of people in the audience, all of those people are, it sounds a bit corny, but all of those people are nice people, and they&#8217;re wishing you the best. So I really hope it goes well tomorrow. And I&#8217;d just like to say thank you for sharing your story. That was really interesting.\n\n\n\n[00:28:51] Eneko Garrido: Thank you for you for this opportunity for me talking here, because this was like, oh, someone wants for me to talk on a podcast. I received an Slack message, and I was like, woah, what is this? I am dreaming or something like that. This only happens to the big talkers, to the biggest speakers of WordCamps. Thank you for you, for this opportunity to be here today.\n\n\n\n[00:29:16] Nathan Wrigley: You are very, very, welcome. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Really appreciate it.\n</div>\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Eneko Garrido.\n\n\n\nEneko is a full-stack developer who has made significant contributions to the WordPress community since attending his first WordCamp in 2019. Eneko&#8217;s journey with WordPress began when he attended WordCamp Bilbao during a challenging time in his life, marked by anxiety and depression. This pivotal experience not only transformed his career but also enriched his personal life, leading him to become a passionate contributor and advocate for the WordPress community.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nWe start off by discussing Eneko&#8217;s initial encounter with WordCamp Bilbao, where he felt a profound sense of belonging and support from the vibrant WordPress community. Despite his initial hesitations, Eneko was drawn to the inclusive and welcoming environment, which motivated him to participate more actively in future WordCamps.\n\n\n\nEneko goes on to share how his role as a polyglot contributor for the Basque locale has been a consistent source of joy and purpose. His commitment to translating WordPress into Basque has not only helped the community, but also deepened his connection to his cultural heritage.\n\n\n\nWe get into the impact that WordPress has had on Eneko&#8217;s life, from opening new career opportunities, to fostering lasting friendships. Eneko credits the WordPress community with providing him with a supportive network that has helped him navigate various challenges, including his autism diagnosis in 2021.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast, we discuss Eneko&#8217;s preparations for delivering a talk at WordCamp Europe, a testament to his growth and confidence since his first WordCamp experience. Despite the daunting prospect of speaking to a large audience, Eneko remains resolute and grateful for the supportive community that has been instrumental in his journey.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in hearing a heartfelt story about the life-changing potential of the WordPress community, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\nEneko&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp Europe 2024: <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/session/how-the-wordpress-community-changed-my-life/\">How the WordPress community changed my life</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://yoast.com/yoast-diversity-fund/\">Yoast diversity fund</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.renfe.com/es/en/renfe-group/renfe-group\">Renfe Group</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://bilbao.wordcamp.org/2024/\">WordCamp Bilbao</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/128-fernando-tellado-on-ai-tools-and-rehumanising-the-web\">Fernando Tellado&#8217;s Jukebox podcast epsiode about AI Tools and Rehumanising the Web</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://irun.wordcamp.org/2022/\">WordCamp Irun</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 Jul 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:24;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"Do The Woo Community: The Buyer’s View, Scaling Enterprise with Karim Marucchi and Tom Willmot\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84784\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:91:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-buyers-view-scaling-enterprise-with-karim-marucchi-and-tom-willmot/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:34400:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-40 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-39 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-38 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-17 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-37 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://www.avalara.com/us/en/products/enterprise.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a>: providing cloud-based and scalable global tax compliance that is hassle-free, safe and secure plus topped off with enterprise-class security.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nKarim: Well, hello, welcome to Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source Software. This is the Buyer’s View. As you might remember from our last episode, we are going to be doing two podcasts a month: one that is closer to the buyer’s view and helps the enterprise see how to engage and work with WordPress and open source software, and the other side will be more of a community-focused WordPress project podcast around how the project and WordPress can focus on the enterprise in certain areas. My name is Karim from the Scale Consortium. I&#8217;m also CEO of Crowd Favorite. With me is Tom Willmot. Tom?\n\n\n\nTom: Hello. Great to be here. Excited to be kicking this off, what I hope becomes a regular thing for us. I&#8217;m also a founding member of the Scale Consortium and the CEO and co-founder of Human Made. Yeah, excited to get into this.\n\n\n\nKarim: Me too. Me too. So let&#8217;s jump right in. We at the Scale Consortium figured that it was time to have a group that unified and had a singular voice around helping the enterprise navigate open source software and WordPress specifically and its options. Tom, how do you see how we do that?\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I mean, good to probably just step back and talk about that a little bit. The challenge we have in the enterprise WordPress space, and I think the challenge buyers face is compared to the single vendor options that are out there where they can talk to the buyer with a unified message and simplified positioning. The strength of the WordPress ecosystem is it&#8217;s really broad and deep and that brings lots of benefits. There&#8217;s lots of choice and flexibility, but it does mean that as a buyer you can look at all of that and it can be a bit overwhelming. It can be a bit confusing. Where do you go? At Scale Consortium, we come together and we work together across vendors within the space to give that clear view.\n\n\n\nKarim: Well, one of the things I hear most is if an enterprise wants to approach WordPress, where do they go? Do they go to a host?\n\n\n\nTom: Right? Who&#8217;s the vendor? Maybe they turn up to a host, maybe they find an agency. But yeah, it&#8217;s not so simple.\n\n\n\nKarim: And then on the community side, folks argue that if you go to one vendor or one host, you&#8217;re going to get their flavor of WordPress. One of the things that I&#8217;m hoping that we&#8217;re going to dive into is that really you can customize WordPress to do almost anything, but the point here is that there are no flavors of WordPress. There are flavors of Linux that are forks. This is all the same WordPress, right? It&#8217;s just the special sauce that any one team might bring to it or the special sauce that any one host or any other one product might bring to it. But WordPress is not the same type of complex ecosystem that operating systems were for the last 40 years. So let&#8217;s dive right into the introduction to why WordPress. Its current market share is 43% of the internet. So it has very strong strengths, right?\n\n\n\nTom: Yes. Even amongst the kind of enterprise tier, it&#8217;s pretty dominant depending on how you&#8217;re talking about measuring it. It’s certainly true that the vast majority of enterprises, the vast majority of businesses, have got WordPress somewhere, even if they&#8217;re not using it as their primary CMS, they&#8217;re using WordPress somewhere in their organization. And actually there&#8217;s plenty that are using it as their primary, but I think that&#8217;s secondary. The CMS kind of narrative is the WordPress history is quite relevant, I suppose, to how WordPress started to break into business and how that&#8217;s evolved over time.\n\n\n\nKarim: But if it’s a generalist platform and it’s being used as that secondary system, is it just vanilla is the problem we run into all the time? We have a hard time explaining to folks that what ends up happening is this isn’t just a generalist system that can’t help you with your specific need because the WordPress project is so general, you can actually bring it and customize it for your specific needs without having to use the technical term fork, without having to fork the code, without having to move away from it. You can adapt it to your needs. It’s so adaptable, which is what I think some of the successes out there are, right?\n\n\n\nTom: Sure, yeah, a hundred percent. That means that the barrier to entry actually is quite low. It’s quite easy to get going with WordPress and then you can customize it and it’ll flex with you and scale with you. There’s WordPress out of the box. Of course, if you’re an enterprise user of WordPress, you do need some stuff on top of that, right? You have specific common needs across enterprise or workflows or governance or digital asset management or whatnot. And so there’s this layer of stuff that exists in the ecosystem that does make WordPress meet the needs of enterprise. And then of course you get the vertical-specific needs too, whether that’s higher education, financial institutions, or publishing.\n\n\n\nKarim: But I want to jump into this question of the first choice versus second choice, because I remember the way I approached WordPress when we first came into the space was automatically assuming it was going to be a first choice. One of our larger projects that we started now 14 years ago, it was the first choice. So I came to the WordPress larger enterprise community thinking, oh, let&#8217;s do that. And then I was shocked to find out that more than one of the managed hosts, their marketing was all targeted towards WordPress as a secondary enterprise. They had one of those monolithic enterprise systems as their .com, and then the host was saying, we&#8217;re never going to get that .com, so we&#8217;re actually going to market as put your .com out there with this monolithic system and then after that, or proprietary system. And then after that, all these smaller sites that you don&#8217;t want to invest so much time in those ones can actually be on WordPress. And that shocked me. I mean, how did you find that back then?\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I mean, I think to some degree that reflects how WordPress usually comes to be used by an organization, which is usually bottom up. It&#8217;s usually people in the organization who are on the front lines using these tools and they want to use WordPress. Maybe they&#8217;re familiar with it, maybe they&#8217;ve used it somewhere else, and then they&#8217;ll fight internally to get WordPress. And so maybe it comes into one specific team or one department rather than those large rollouts, which are usually top down run by IT or something. I think what we&#8217;ve seen over the last decade, it started out like that actually.\n\n\n\nNow there are plenty of organizations where that the WordPress gets its foot in the door and then it works its way through the organization and unseats the primary CMS. And so I think that’s great. WordPress is definitely validated as a great primary option. And if anything, I think that’s the biggest gap now to close because we are, how do we make the jump from people inside organizations fighting the fight to get WordPress? How do we make that jump to the top down the IT rollouts or digital strategy rollouts?\n\n\n\nKarim: And that’s interesting because I’ve always tried to address it specifically as how do we head to head compare ourselves to these monolithic proprietary systems and how do we show that we can feature for feature or more importantly business need by business need actually come up to that level? Because people still think of WordPress as this, oh, it’s just a CMS. Oh, it’s just to push pages and articles not necessarily can help me integrate data from many different sources or so forth or so on. So it’s interesting to see that there’s part of the market that is still thinking of it this way as second choice.\n\n\n\nAnd then there’s the other part of the market that’s saying, how do we actually show that we can do this? And more and more case studies are coming up that way. You’ve worked on a giant major European bank as WordPress being the first open source. We’ve worked on one of the largest media companies with WordPress being the first choice, the .com, so to speak, of all their major sites. So it works that way. But how do we get that message out? And I guess that falls down to the enterprise needs. What do you think about that? What are the enterprise needs?\n\n\n\nTom: I think that’s the opportunity here, right? Because actually the enterprise needs, I think particularly these days, the trends that we’re seeing in the industry actually I think pair very well with WordPress around total cost of ownership, the need for a lot of flexibility that just increases and increases. We’ve seen this kind of trend of all-in-one DXP, which feels like it’s peaked and now, and actually we want to own more of our stack and be able to swap pieces out, and we need it to integrate with the long tail of things that we are using across the enterprise. And so actually that really starts to, WordPress actually been a particularly good fit for a lot of those needs. And again, it’s like we’ve got to form clear messaging around that so that enterprises are aware and they&#8217;re being told that they can discover that for themselves. It doesn’t need to come up through this backdoor, secondary route.\n\n\n\nKarim: So the general WordPress project as an open source project needs to stay communicating that we can be all things to all people. And because most of the internet are smaller sites in the enterprise space, we&#8217;re a very small subset of clients by volume. What ends up happening is it’s a very small voice. So then it becomes up to the Scale Consortium podcasts like this one, the agencies, and products that want to work with the enterprise to try and communicate that. What we need to do is try to bring together some\n\n\n\nsort of unified messaging because those needs aren’t being met. If a particular host or product or an agency is saying, oh, well let me show you how I do it in this one exact example, they get pigeonholed right away. Most people are very surprised to find out that WordPress can be used as the central hub of an ERP system. There are large medium enterprises, not necessarily the Fortune 100, but right below that, that are using WordPress to manage content on what could be classified as an ERP system, not just a CMS or a marketing solution. You’d say, why would you do that? Why wouldn’t you use one of those other applications? And I feel that the bottom line of the need of the enterprise is not what is the name of the package, what is the technology? What programming language am I going to use? What’s going to solve the business need? And in this particular case, going back to quoting Matt Mullenweg from WordCamp San Francisco, 2010 or 2012, it takes five minutes to learn how to publish a page. Bottom line.\n\n\n\nTom: That time to publish and the flexibility of that, again, it is something actually we can often take for granted. I think within the community, we often have this experience when we are demoing to clients and actually it&#8217;s the stuff that we forget is actually quite groundbreaking already. The fact that you can log in and edit a page and publish it, have it live within five, 10 minutes, and those things are not actually true across the rest of the competitors.\n\n\n\nKarim: Exactly, exactly.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah. This kind of central hub piece, I wonder if that&#8217;s something we certainly see a lot. I imagine it’s similar in the work you are doing where actually customers are building DXPs, they do end up with a DXP, but they&#8217;ve put it together themselves with WordPress at the center and all of these other pieces. And so it&#8217;s true that the world has the needs of enterprise that have evolved beyond just CMS. Absolutely. There&#8217;s a bunch of other pieces now, but WordPress doesn&#8217;t need to be all those things. What WordPress needs to do is integrate really well with them.\n\n\n\nKarim: That&#8217;s the key. That’s the key, right? Because both of us have done presentations on how you&#8217;ve built a DXP centered on WordPress and it&#8217;s an amazing product, and we&#8217;ve done this composable direction, which we&#8217;re going to talk about a little bit later, but this composable direction. But the key is integrating. The key is for all these folks, all the folks who might be listening who have been around the block a few times, old school, 1990s, system integration of middleware. If you think of it in those terms, WordPress is a great connector.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah. That&#8217;s usually where we find clients end up in actually. They&#8217;ve got WordPress as that central hub.\n\n\n\nKarim: So how do you address when you end up going to an enterprise client and you have the technical team of the enterprise, the client goes, but it’s WordPress, it’s a blog. How do you address that?\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I think that is something that&#8217;s improved quite a lot, certainly over the last five years. I think the number one thing is just that the WordPress, there are so many examples now of WordPress being used really for the very biggest stuff on the internet across almost all verticals. And so you can usually rely on just a lot of direct evidence. Actually, that’s not the case. So usually it&#8217;s a mix of lots of case studies, lots of references, and lots of demos that you can show and demonstrate. And perhaps five or 10 years ago, you perhaps were on the cutting edge if you were trying to use work with the scale. Actually that’s just completely normal now. And the concern is just out of date. And so you can just show all of the evidence. And actually there are many more examples. There are many more high scale WordPress sites than most of these other platforms actually.\n\n\n\nKarim: No, exactly. Exactly. So I think we&#8217;ve reached the part where it&#8217;s time for a small break and when we come back, Tom, I think you&#8217;re going to head us off with talking about the evolution of content management and how we got here. See everybody in a minute. Thank you.\n\n\n\nTom: Okay, welcome back. So Karim, we touched a little bit in that previous section on the evolution of the enterprise CMS and the evolution of content management and how WordPress fits into them. And so I think that’d be good to just dive in on a bit and expand on. One of the things I often reflect on is that the narratives out in the industry, the buzzwords, the framing, the structure of how we think about enterprise CMS has actually historically mostly been set by the competitors to WordPress. So I think this is an opportunity, right, for WordPress to start actually putting its vision for enterprise CMS forward and more that maybe you can do as a bit of an explainer on that.\n\n\n\nKarim: Well, yeah, because if you look at the history, content management systems started out what we used to call OnPrem, right, on premises. And then with the evolution of SaaS and the evolution of not just software as a service, but just thinking of things being not within your own system but putting together lots of other systems. You ended up with just this expectation that it was out there in somebody else&#8217;s system. But there’s a lot of Fortune customers and there’s a lot of mid-market enterprise companies that say, we need our data internally.\n\n\n\nAnd one thing that’s vastly overlooked is that if you&#8217;re using open source and specifically WordPress as this hub that we were talking about, that lets you literally own your data and actually keep solid control over what&#8217;s being shared outside. It&#8217;s not about points of failure necessarily, although it can be. It&#8217;s not about having things across 12 or 15 different SaaS’s out there and different companies having access to your data. You solve all of those things if you are centralizing saying that your source of truth is your content management system. And that is an evolutionary piece that&#8217;s been lost in the last 10 years of the MarTech stack explosion of SaaS products, I feel.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I couldn&#8217;t agree more. A common occurrence for us, which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll run into too, it will be working with a new client who are wanting to move to WordPress and a driver of that move is that they have bought into a legacy CMS or a CMS that is now legacy in which the company behind it actually are no longer around or they&#8217;re no longer supporting it. Maybe they&#8217;ve built a new product and the cost to move to that new product is the same as the cost to move to WordPress. Actually, that’s a pretty dominant frame for the industry. A lot of enterprises make the decisions over a five to 10-year cycle because actually that&#8217;s the cycle. That&#8217;s the lifetime of a lot of these platforms that in five to 10 years they&#8217;re going to be legacy and you&#8217;re going to want to move to something new. A lot of the education we are doing as part of a WordPress installation is that&#8217;s actually not true in open source. We&#8217;ve got a much longer time horizon ahead and you&#8217;re not going to need to move off in five years because WordPress is still going to be around and innovating.\n\n\n\nKarim: I&#8217;m actually going to challenge that, Tom. I&#8217;m going to say I don&#8217;t see clients that are spending in a total of five years on a platform before saying they want to move.\n\n\n\nTom: Like you&#8217;re seeing it come down.\n\n\n\nKarim: I&#8217;m seeing it come down because of their marketing so hard against each other. Sure. If you look at the market leaders in the DXP area, they&#8217;re marketing so hard against each other that they&#8217;re innovative and the others aren’t.\n\n\n\nTom: It&#8217;s true.\n\n\n\nKarim: They&#8217;re marketing so hard against each other about how they&#8217;re better that CMOs and CIOs are saying, well, maybe it&#8217;s worth the cost of migration and they&#8217;re bouncing. Or if it is a longer-term thing, it&#8217;s because they created a bespoke dead end of their own that the cost of owning it is so high that they&#8217;re like, okay, now what do we do? And coming back to your point, doing something with a platform like WordPress that doesn&#8217;t have major migrations,\n\n\n\nTom: No, sure.\n\n\n\nKarim: It’s not free. You actually need to maintain it, right? Which is another misconception.\n\n\n\nTom: I mean it’s actually a big difference even between WordPress and Drupal, which are the two open source platforms, but Drupal actually does have this cadence of major backwards compatibility breaking releases, which we see from the WordPress side whereas a user of Drupal seven, you&#8217;ve got to make the decision, okay, I&#8217;m going to spend a bunch of money moving to Drupal 10, or actually maybe I&#8217;ll move to something else.\n\n\n\nKarim: And another nod to Matt and the way he&#8217;s thought of the WordPress project, Matt Mullenweg, in the sense that he has been really steadfast about not breaking backwards compatibility sometimes even to the point where you and I are frustrated in thinking how can we move the platform forward? But it&#8217;s really helped us in that long-term future. So as I&#8217;ve seen the SaaS companies market harder and clients have more and more choices and flip even more, the more I&#8217;ve seen the total cost of ownership come down for staying on something like WordPress, the more I&#8217;ve seen the cost of migration be not just money, but also the time aspect and the retraining of your employee base. So it&#8217;s been very hard to understand exactly how to relate this back to customers because they&#8217;ve only seen the last 10 years of marketing that again, these marketing budgets on these major platforms are huge and all these individual companies that are trying to help enterprises with WordPress are going, we can&#8217;t match that marketing of that major platform. That brings me to the one word that I\n\n\n\nthink has started to take over from just digital experience or digital transformation. There&#8217;s a lot around the word composable these days, and I know a lot of people assume that means, oh, I&#8217;m just going to compose three or four SaaS platforms, I&#8217;m going to compose my own system. We&#8217;ve come to realize that when they do that, they end up with a mess of the poor marketing staff that has 18 tabs open in a browser and to get one workflow done for marketing tasks, they&#8217;ve got quite literally six to seven different interfaces with six to seven different products that are trying to swap information back into each other, sometimes in real-time, sometimes not. Is there a way that this general tool of WordPress helps? We feel it does. How does your team deal with that with the vertical of the enterprise? How does your team try to address how can we not have customers do this?\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I think we went through this phase with the kind of all-in-ones, whereas kind of this bundling phase and the dream there that was being sold was if everything&#8217;s all in one place, you&#8217;re not going to have to worry about it. You&#8217;ll get everything you ever need here. And usually that doesn&#8217;t work out right, because actually they&#8217;re too limiting and the stuff you need to do, they can&#8217;t innovate fast enough to keep up with the pace of change in the ecosystem. As then we&#8217;ve kind of swung the other way, okay, now it&#8217;s completely composable all of your tools just talk to each other. You can swap any of them out at any time. But again, that brings a bunch of challenges, right? Actually it ends up with a pretty brittle system. How do you do governance across 20, 30 different SaaS tools that you lose track of what you are being billed for? The person who set that SaaS tool up is left now and you can no longer log in. A bunch of challenges there.\n\n\n\nI feel like you go through those cycles and you come back to meet a little bit in the middle where actually this hybrid CMS that sits at the center that absolutely can plug in to the stuff you want to use externally but is still providing a significant portion of your functionality and acts as that hub. The compromise between composability and all-in-one, I think the fully composable platforms inevitably will need to trend in that direction where actually there ends up being some hub or the management platform that ends up needing to be developed to just manage all those different SaaS tools becomes that hub over time probably. And same thing, we&#8217;re seeing the all-in-one DXPs trying to become as composable as possible as quickly as possible because realizing the limitations of all-in-one, and again, I think it’s that trend just plays really nicely for WordPress.\n\n\n\nKarim: But can an all-in-one solution be the best tool for every job?\n\n\n\nTom: No, I think that’s the fundamental failure. Ultimately, they’re attractive to begin with and I think we’ve just seen that play out in the market where the pitch is very attractive and very compelling, and then the reality doesn’t deliver on that for a variety of reasons. And I think we just, we&#8217;ve seen that play out in the market. We&#8217;re past the peak of that. There are now plenty of organizations who&#8217;ve bought into that and either they&#8217;ve been paying for a bunch of tools they haven’t really got the value from, or they need to do stuff more quickly than the platform that they’re bought into is innovating and they&#8217;re starting to look around and want to use other stuff. And the bunch of those end up moving to something like WordPress. That’s part of the inflow we see into the WordPress market.\n\n\n\nKarim: Absolutely. Exactly. Well, so I feel like episode zero, our first episode with Brad gave us the concept of what the entire show&#8217;s about, and today we&#8217;ve laid out what the differences are between the two different shows and introduced the concepts of what we&#8217;re going to talk about. And with that, we agree completely as you were saying in talking to our friend Remkus from this community. I&#8217;m sure that the upcoming episodes where we&#8217;re going to talk about procurement, we&#8217;re going to have to talk about how to approach customers, we&#8217;re going to talk about how to service those customers. We&#8217;re going to talk about what the solutions are for the enterprise.\n\n\n\nIt’s going to be a little bit more of showing how we have a little bit of a different take on these things. But just from this conversation, I can see conversations around, like I said, speaking with a procurement specialist, speaking quite literally with somebody from some of these other monolithic platforms about what they feel they do best and having these conversations, talking about how to integrate well with SaaS and what that looks like, customized workflows. These are some of the topics that I feel like are coming down the pipeline in our next episodes that are really going to start asking and answering questions on how can we do better as a WordPress community in communicating this and give some information out to enterprise buyers on how they can approach any of the vendors who work with WordPress.\n\n\n\nTom: It’s a nerdy thing to say, but I think it&#8217;s a pretty exciting time in the enterprise CMS space, right? There is actually a lot happening. There are some trends peaking. There are some new trends coming. There&#8217;s a lot of players in the space scrambling to figure out what that is. The analysts have all got their takes. Are we agile CMS? Are we composable? Is it composable content? There&#8217;s so many of these things. As a buyer, it’s pretty confusing. And a lot of these platforms at the moment you’re kind of like, okay, I&#8217;m going math, I&#8217;m all in on this, or I&#8217;m going with an all-in-one. And you&#8217;re kind of all in on that. So they&#8217;re pretty consequential decisions as well, I think, as a buyer. And so I think there’s a ton of scope for us to get into all of that debate, all of that. What&#8217;s the WordPress answer to a lot of these things? Again, that&#8217;s not really discussed much.\n\n\n\nKarim: I’d like to invite literally an analyst from one of the companies to come on and ask them why, besides the fact that it&#8217;s pay for play, why can&#8217;t we get any attention?\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I think that would be great.\n\n\n\nKarim: As an open source.\n\n\n\nTom: Yeah, I would love to do an episode on analysts and their place. I think there&#8217;s tons to say there. Yeah, well exciting stuff. Okay, good first episode and more to come.\n\n\n\nKarim: Absolutely. So Tom, tell us about Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source.\n\n\n\nTom: We are the buyer’s view, but we&#8217;ll be in the same feed as the sister cast that we&#8217;re going to be doing with Brad Williams, which is, as Karim said, the Enterprise WordPress community-focused version. And so we&#8217;ll be in the same feed. So you can listen to both of those. I think both are going to be interesting to everyone inside enterprise WordPress. If you’re a buyer, maybe you’re more interested in this buyer&#8217;s view one, add us to your favorite podcast subscription. Come along on this journey. And I think most of all, we are just starting out and so we really want to hear from people. What are you seeing out in the space? What are the questions people have got? What would they hope to get from a show like this? I think we&#8217;ll lead a lot on that as well as we go. Do people have questions that we can answer? Are there topics people would like us to cover? Are there people that it would be great to get on? Let us know and we&#8217;ll endeavor to do so.\n\n\n\nKarim: So go over to Do the Woo and check on our feeds and whichever podcast platform you&#8217;re using, and also feel free to go to scalecms.org and get in touch with us and ask us to do a particular topic or dive into something. We&#8217;d be happy to talk to you. We are really looking forward to bringing back some informative and useful information to help enterprises really understand how to better engage with WordPress and open source.\n\n\n\nTom: Alright, a good place to finish. Thanks very much, Karim.\n\n\n\nKarim: Thank you Tom, it’s been awesome. Talk to you soon.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Scaling Enterprise WordPress and Open Source Software, hosts Karim Marucchi and Tom Willmot kick off The Buyer&#8217;s View. They discuss the challenges and benefits of using WordPress and open source software in the enterprise space and highlight the flexibility and adaptability of WordPress, which can be customized to meet specific needs without having to fork the code. \n\n\n\nThe talk move into the evolution of content management and how WordPress can serve as a central hub in a digital experience platform (DXP), integrating with other tools and systems. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nDual Podcast Approach: Do the Woo in partnership with the Scale Consortium is producing two podcasts a month: one focusing on the buyer&#8217;s perspective and the other on the community-focused WordPress project.\n\n\n\nUnifying Enterprise and Open Source: The Scale Consortium aims to provide a unified voice to help enterprises navigate open source software and WordPress, offering guidance on engagement and options.\n\n\n\nEnterprise Challenges: Enterprises face challenges with WordPress due to its broad and deep ecosystem, which can be overwhelming and confusing compared to single vendor options.\n\n\n\nCustomization and Flexibility: WordPress can be highly customized without forking the code, making it adaptable for specific enterprise needs and serving as a versatile tool for various applications.\n\n\n\nPrimary vs. Secondary CMS: There is a perception issue where WordPress is often seen as a secondary choice, but there are many examples of it being used as the primary CMS in major enterprises.\n\n\n\nEnterprise Needs Alignment: WordPress aligns well with current enterprise trends such as total cost of ownership, flexibility, and the need for integration with various tools and systems.\n\n\n\nComposability Trend: The concept of composability is becoming more prevalent, and WordPress serves well as a central hub for integrating various SaaS platforms and tools.\n\n\n\nIntegration Capabilities: WordPress excels as a connector in a composable ecosystem, allowing for seamless integration with other systems and tools.\n\n\n\nBackward Compatibility: WordPress has a strong focus on backward compatibility, reducing the need for major migrations and ensuring long-term stability for enterprises.\n\n\n\nMarketing Challenges: The marketing budgets of major platforms overshadow the smaller voices advocating for WordPress, making it challenging to communicate its advantages effectively.\n\n\n\nAnalyst Engagement: There is a desire to engage analysts and better understand why open source platforms like WordPress struggle to get the same level of attention as proprietary systems.\n\n\n\nFuture Episodes: Future podcast episodes will cover topics such as procurement, customer approaches, service strategies, integration with SaaS, and customized workflows.\n\n\n\nAudience Engagement: The podcast invites listeners to provide feedback, ask questions, and suggest topics to ensure the content is relevant and valuable for enterprise buyers and the WordPress community.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 24 Jul 2024 09:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:25;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.6.1 Maintenance Release\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17567\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-1-maintenance-release/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5729:\"WordPress 6.6.1 is now available!\n\n\n\nThis minor release features <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&id=!61692&milestone=6.6.1&group=status&col=id&col=summary&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&col=component&col=version&col=keywords&order=priority\">7 bug fixes in Core</a> and <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/61692#comment:4 \">9 bug fixes for the Block Editor</a>. You can review a summary of the maintenance updates in this release by reading the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/18/wordpress-6-6-1-rc1-is-now-available/\">Release Candidate announcement</a>.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6.1 is a short-cycle release. The next major release will be <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-7/\">version 6.7</a> planned for November 2024.\n\n\n\nIf you have sites that support automatic background updates, the update process will begin automatically.\n\n\n\nYou can <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6.1.zip\">download WordPress 6.6.1 from WordPress.org</a>, or visit your WordPress Dashboard, click “Updates”, and then click “Update Now”.\n\n\n\nFor more information on this release, please <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/wordpress-version/version-6-6-1\">visit the HelpHub site</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you to these WordPress contributors</h2>\n\n\n\nThis release was led by <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella</a>.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6.1 would not have been possible without the contributions of the following people. Their asynchronous coordination to deliver maintenance fixes into a stable release is a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress community.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin\">Aaron Jorbin</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw\">Aaron Robertshaw</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks\">Aki Hamano</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amitraj2203\">Amit Raj</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\">Akira Tachibana</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia\">Andrea Fercia</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong\">Andrew Serong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu\">annezazu</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ambrosiawt\">Art Smith</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgardner\">Brian Gardner</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena\">Carolina Nymark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbirdsong\">cbirdsong</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/butterflymedia\">Ciprian</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarktbt\">Clark</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01\">Courtney Robertson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp\">Daniel Richards</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald\">David Baumwald</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell\">Dennis Snell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32\">Dion Hulse</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix\">Ella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annubis\">Eric-Oliver Mächler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka\">George Mamadashvili</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr\">Jarda Snajdr</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb\">Jb Audras</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson\">Joe Dolson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen\">Joen A.</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell\">Jon Surrell</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurelfulford/\">laurelfulford</a><a>, </a><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mciampini\">Marco Ciampini</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot\">Mario Santos</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead\">Mark Howells-Mead</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27%20\">Mukesh Panchal</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neotrope\">neotrope</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy\">Pascal Birchler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron\">Paul Biron</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly\">ramonopoly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/raquelandefeld\">Raquel</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad\">Riad Benguella</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor\">Rich Tabor</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noisysocks\">Robert Anderson</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/SergeyBiryukov\">Sergey Biryukov</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coffee2code/\">Scott Reilly</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sourav08\">Sourav Pahwa</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt\">Stephen Bernhardt</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sunil25393\">SunilPrajapati</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hellofromTonya\">Tonya Mork</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/up1512001\">up1512001</a>\n\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How to contribute</h2>\n\n\n\nTo get involved in WordPress core development, head over to Trac, <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/report/6\">pick a ticket</a>, and join the conversation in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">#core</a> and <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C07BTF54N68\">#6-7-release-leads</a> channels. Need help? Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/\">Core Contributor Handbook</a>.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 23 Jul 2024 15:53:25 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10:\"Tonya Mork\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:26;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:82:\"Do The Woo Community: Unpacking Blogging, a BlogStorm with Ronald Gijsel and BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84738\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://dothewoo.io/unpacking-blogging-a-blogstorm-with-ronald-gijsel-and-bobwp/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:44652:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nBobWP: So here&#8217;s the deal. The other day I was thinking about the three Cs: community, commenting, and coding. Okay, I lied. I wasn&#8217;t thinking about coding at all. Coding, I don&#8217;t think about it much. It&#8217;s never in my face. I know it&#8217;s there. I know people do great stuff with it. I hear people talk about it. So the only reason I put that in there is it just sounded better. I really wanted to talk about community, commenting, and blogging, but it just didn&#8217;t sound as good. But that is what has been on my mind lately. Well, actually I lied again because that wasn&#8217;t on my mind lately. It&#8217;s always on my mind. That&#8217;s all I think about is this stuff. So I got to quit lying about things and just get to the point here that it&#8217;s really something I am thinking about.\n\n\n\nLike I said, a lot, those three things. And as a result, I got into some conversations. I had a conversation actually with Bryce from Metorik. I don&#8217;t know if any of you know him, but he was on the podcast lately. We were talking about community, the builder community where they can connect and talk. We threw a few ideas around. Then it moved into another whole thing because of some stuff going on. And of course, I had to have a conversation with Ronald, one of our hosts here, Ronald Gijsel, and we always have great conversations and we started talking about this stuff and we thought, why don&#8217;t we just take it live and talk about it? So, I twisted Ronald&#8217;s arm and he&#8217;s popping back in to actually, he called it, what did you call this? Do you remember what you called this?\n\n\n\nRonald: Different ideas. I think my latest is almost like unpacking blogging with Bob or was there another reference to that? It&#8217;ll come to me. But yeah, I&#8217;m really excited actually just to discuss it live and ask you a few questions, what the goals are and bring it back to me and be very lengthy. And maybe at the end of this call, or this recording, we will come up with a final solution, a way you&#8217;ll have to give it direction and go for it.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah. Yeah. I was actually looking back, you called it a BlogStorm.\n\n\n\nRonald: BlogStorm. Yeah. We were doing a brainstorm about everything around blogging. It&#8217;s a BlogStorm. Yeah.\n\n\n\nBobWP: So we&#8217;re just going to go for it here. And I hope Ronald said we&#8217;ll put some ideas together, thoughts, just what&#8217;s on our mind. I&#8217;ll set the stage. There was a point where I took the blog off because some part of my brain said, oh, I wanted to focus on audio and have everybody focus on the audio when they get there. And of course, I started to look at the site and thought it felt, I think I wrote this somewhere, it felt naked. It was like, where&#8217;s a blog? This is conversational. This is community. This is what it&#8217;s all about. So in turn, we&#8217;re working on bringing back the blog to Do the Woo, and that&#8217;s where this came because I had another idea. I had an idea about a newsletter and all this stuff kind of meshed together and Ronald deals with my crazy thinking and my train of thoughts and stuff. I brought up this newsletter idea and only because I keep hacking away at that thing. I&#8217;ve done that for so many years and never really progressed. What are your thoughts? I mean, you gave me some feedback. We won&#8217;t go into a lot of the details there, but just give me a thought.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah. The thought that came to mind is newsletters are great, but newsletters or anything, email notification of something that&#8217;s bigger. And so if you write a newsletter with long form, I dunno what is long form these days, but something that gives you everything in the newsletter, you don&#8217;t need to do anything other than read the newsletter. That&#8217;s great if you&#8217;re in the moment and in the moment of reading a particular topic, but also on a device that makes it pleasant to read it. And once it&#8217;s buried in your inbox, it&#8217;s kind of gone, difficult to get back and that moment when you send out hundreds of thousands of newsletters, what you see in the status within the first couple of minutes, you see a really high spike of the opening rate and then it sort of diminishes pretty quickly after that, even within the same 24 hours. Even if you have an intelligent system that sends the emails at the best time or thinks it&#8217;s the best time with the highest opening rate, I do always wonder what the engagement rate is. So in other words, you send a newsletter, you think I have a huge post, but how engaged are people who read your newsletter? If it&#8217;s a call to action to click through to something, that&#8217;s really easy, but maybe it&#8217;s like, oh, it&#8217;s an email from Bob. Okay, great. It&#8217;s quite long. I&#8217;m doing something else. I&#8217;m switching between 15 different tabs and different windows and other things are happening at the same time. Are you really absorbing the content and engaging it? It&#8217;s really difficult to do that. And so it&#8217;s great to have a notification, but maybe that notification should be, hey, there&#8217;s much more content in the blog and here&#8217;s your weekly reminder to explore and here are the things that have been happening, have been fed by our presenters and guests. And guess what? If you&#8217;re interested in coding, here&#8217;s a category, everything around coding, or here&#8217;s a category, everything around community and thought. And that got me thinking like, hey, how much content? We&#8217;re coming up to 500 podcasts now?\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, yeah. This will probably be, I&#8217;m not exactly sure the number, but we&#8217;re at around 500 in the 530 somethings.\n\n\n\nRonald: Oh, so we passed that. Yeah. Amazing. So apart from me, all the other super interesting guests, some of them I&#8217;ve interviewed as well in the past, they all have really interesting things to say that it would be great to have quotes, snippets, or even get them to write something on your blog. Anyway, that got me really quite excited about the opportunity and bringing back blogging, which is the core of WordPress.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah. And that&#8217;s what I mean. Like I said, I have Ronald there to smack me alongside the head. Every once in a while I get these little ideas and I&#8217;m doing them for maybe one specific reason or I&#8217;m thinking, how can I make this part better? And then I realize I have things inside there that are already bubbling on the site. One of the things you brought up, I&#8217;m going to flip back here, is you had brought up what Matt Mullenweg said and on his, I think he said it on his blog post about WordPress turning 21. And then I said it again in his talk at WordCamp Europe just a couple of months ago, and let&#8217;s say I pulled up the blog post and he gave 11 things that he&#8217;s just been thinking about. He says people should be thinking about one of them was blogging, commenting, and ping backs need to be fun. Static websites are fine, but dynamic ones are better. Almost every site would be improved by having a blog or a great blog. So when I looked at that, it was like I thought, man, back what, 2010 or so when I was blogging, that was kind of the heyday of blogging and everybody was commenting and it keeps nagging at me, this thing he said, and it&#8217;s not just what he said then, it was reaffirmation is what it was to me, what&#8217;s been on my mind when we started the new site, when we did the redesign to do the Woo. When we launched that in March and then officially at WordCamp Europe, we decided to open up comments again. And of course, that&#8217;s always a challenge. And I think there&#8217;s this thing inside of me that just, I won&#8217;t give up on it. Comments are there, there&#8217;s got to be something happening. So I&#8217;ve been publishing ping backs and stuff and some different things and it is true. It&#8217;s like there&#8217;s so many ideas and thoughts going through my head.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah, I think you touched on something really important and that referencing to Matt, but it just occurred to me that WordPress is 21 years old and WordPress, not everybody started 21 years ago, but for 15 years we&#8217;ve had a number of new publishing platforms, mostly social media come, I mean they&#8217;re still here, they didn&#8217;t go away, but your audience might have moved to different platforms over time and definitely many, many, many more. And when you think of the next 15 years, are any of them still going to be there and relevant? But your blog will always be there. So you build up your diary, your journaling in a way over all those years and that&#8217;s owning that content as an asset is huge. So even if you don&#8217;t blog for the sake of SEO, it&#8217;s still within your own control that you can reuse on purpose and people can search for it and find different things. And I think that&#8217;s something that really, the longer we do this stuff, the more valuable it is that you really own that.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, exactly. And for me, I think one of my challenges lately was my site BobWP.\n\n\n\nRonald: That was huge by the way, wasn&#8217;t it?\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah. And we were talking about that because I had my initial thoughts were kind of going back and forth between the two. So I would repurpose some of the content on Do the Woo over at BobWP.com, and as much as I thought that was a good strategy, it didn&#8217;t really play out as I thought. And of course, Ronald, when we talked, he hinted maybe that content should be under Do the Woo.\n\n\n\nRonald: Can you describe a little bit of your first thought of the content strategy when you were doing BobWP\n\n\n\n? What were you publishing and how was engagement? I know some of it was testing plugins and so on, and probably old versions that are totally irrelevant. That&#8217;s why you don&#8217;t feel it&#8217;s feasible anymore. But yeah, maybe you could share a little bit of it.\n\n\n\nBobWP: So the whole thing with BobWP, what it&#8217;s always been, it&#8217;s always been a piece of something. And back in the day I would do tutorials and stuff, and that&#8217;s why a lot of this content no longer exists because it was really mostly about stuff that was at the time. And that stuff became outdated very quickly unless I went in and updated it, which I did. And when I actually separated the podcast that was originally started on BobWP, it was for that reason because I knew that I wanted to focus on Do the Woo. I wanted to build a brand more around that or build the buzz or get people directed to that. And so my strategy was always, I always had BobWP there and I did a little bit of blogging here and there, and then I came to the point where, like I said, I started thinking, well, should I start cross-promoting the two? Because a BobWP brand is known out there, which seemed like a good idea. My thought was that yeah, I could do a lot of back and forth because some people will go to BobWP and then I can send them over to Do the Woo, give them a snippet of that. Actually, it didn&#8217;t work as I strategically planned because there wasn&#8217;t as much traffic going to BobWP anymore because I let it mellow out, which was on purpose because I wanted my focus on Do the Woo. So that was how I kept looking at this and kept looking at this and I&#8217;ve actually made a decision going through all this. I&#8217;m at a point in life people can kind of say you&#8217;re at a certain age or you&#8217;re at a point in life where, okay, what&#8217;s going to be the next thing? Well, mine is really Do the Woo. It&#8217;s my focus. So I thought this is where I need to be all the time on Do the Woo because it&#8217;s always going to be, even the experiences I can share doing my own thing over however many years can always fit somewhere there. And as a result, I just recently made the decision to take down BobWP as a site and use my Gravatar profile, BobWP, basically as my website now for BobWP.\n\n\n\nRonald: Your business card.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And that was a long process and a lot of people have done that and I feel like that&#8217;s going to be the best thing I can now focus directly on Do the Woo. I moved some of the content back over from BobWP over on Do the Woo because it fits there and stuff. I just done some of the old posts and stuff. So that was that whole thinking through process. And in the middle of that we talked about it and stuff and we had, oh, I&#8217;m drawing a blank, Ronnie from Gravita and listening to him even occurred to me, this is such a great thing because it&#8217;s just I can send people where they want to go.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah, it&#8217;s like a massive signpost that&#8217;s attached to on top of your head, isn&#8217;t it? Are you business? You have a pleasure, are you sending money or are you just curious who I am? And then there you go. Just go wherever you need to go. Yeah, just one thing. Nice. Do you question for you then is do you feel that BobWP might have served a different audience to where you are now with Woo? I know you&#8217;ve moved some of the content, so there&#8217;s a little bit of an overlap, but I wonder if there&#8217;s even a strategy where you say, Hey, there&#8217;s some probably personal stuff that might not always be suitable for the Woo audience and even if I write this one blog post per year, it doesn&#8217;t matter. It&#8217;s just there. So I have a space that can run it that can publish and that&#8217;s okay. And for everything else there is Do the Woo.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, I thought about that and I want the BobWP brand now to be the gateway to Do the Woo. So that&#8217;s why I kept thinking when I looked at the site, it&#8217;s like I had people, you can go to do the Woo, you can see where I do this and all this stuff, but I felt like it was its own little piece there and honestly I started to realize that I was trying to force myself, it felt like the right move something in my gut and that&#8217;s kind of how I&#8217;ve always done things and maybe sometimes I regretted or something, but for now I just feel like because I basically have some content somewhere still on my WordPress dot com blog and I can always revive that sometime.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah, it probably makes a great archive that even 10 years looks like I did that is a photo of me and whatever and then it&#8217;s still there. I think that becomes really a nice way your own tool of bringing back something that might be relevant even later, even if the minute on something. I also have another question then. When you think about the content for Do the Woo, how do you think about that? So do you want to write for your audience or how do you want them to engage and bring them in and get them to engage with to Do the Woo brand?\n\n\n\nBobWP: That is the fun part to think about, but the challenge I think for me, the site where I&#8217;ve moved my whole mindset is that blog becomes an arm of what Do the Woo stands for. And that is having hosts that have already shown interest come in and write guest posts and they can or having even a guest come in and do it. But as you and I talked about before and I think you alluded to a little bit is how that conversation can be carried from a audio podcast or somebody that talks about something in a podcast and says, I&#8217;m doing this five months later they do it. Do they want to come in and write a little bit about it\n\n\n\nRonald: Or what came out of it? What&#8217;s the outcome of that initial podcast?\n\n\n\nBobWP: It can tie in really easy and make this circle back and forth between the content and how to get people there and engaged. Aside from thinking of creating a forum or some membership or all the crazy stuff that&#8217;s available to us that I don&#8217;t even want to touch on It is it&#8217;s all through that commenting and how to get people, how to drive them there. And that&#8217;s through social, it&#8217;s different ways. There&#8217;s different things that I&#8217;ve discovered are Jetpack now that we&#8217;ve used that we&#8217;re using that for a lot of our stuff that there are things I want to test with that and try to drive people back to leaving comments and having conversation. There&#8217;s some stuff I even talked with somebody from Jetpack at WordCamp Europe and we can do a couple ideas back and forth and we&#8217;re continue that conversation. So I&#8217;m thinking of some different things. I&#8217;ve had a few other people suggest things or actually ask for things that this might be an interesting way to leave a comment and how that can without giving any of a way, I don&#8217;t want to say I&#8217;m going to do it and then I don&#8217;t do it, but getting people to go between the podcasts and the blog and keeping that conversation flowing in some way and somehow interjecting the comments in all of that. And it&#8217;s not going to be an easy task\n\n\n\nRonald: Different ways, isn&#8217;t it? Because you have on one hand you really want to engage with the podcast, you want to listen to every word that&#8217;s being said, but there are times when you might also just want read the LDR of that podcast and I&#8217;d like to say, okay, that podcast probably is not for me, but I&#8217;m glad I&#8217;ve read the headline into it. Are you going to commit yourself to a soccer match for 90 minutes or almost two hours, which is probably a lot of kicking balls back and forth. Or you&#8217;re going to say, no, give me the five minute highlight, that&#8217;s enough and if the match absolutely fantastic with quality soccer football, I&#8217;m going to go in and watch the full thing. Or if it&#8217;s a team or a category that you support, I&#8217;m definitely want to listen them know what the whole thing. So I think the block is also a little bit of a bridge between the full commitment or just a really short version of that or if you have been intrigued by the podcast, a blog could be a way to express your gratitude, your follow up question, sharing it with somebody else because from there you have to learn the links to the podcast. I mean there&#8217;s so many different ideas to really use the podcast as the center of it all that again, Gravatar, it&#8217;s signposting to everything and everything around that particular topic and maybe write about references of other speakers or podcast made in the past, which you may not have discussed in the podcast itself. So I get really excited about this though.\n\n\n\nBobWP: You&#8217;re right because when I go through any transcript and it&#8217;s kind of what I was doing with BobWP a little bit is it&#8217;s like one question is a post in itself. Somebody has given you a direct answer to one specific problem or one specific challenge, but within those transcripts there is tons of information that can be pulled out and be very in themselves are little nuggets I call &#8217;em gathered throughout that are standalone because they really tell you something right there, maybe even something you can take action on or something. And by itself sometimes you miss those things because like you said, you&#8217;re listening to this long podcast for 45 minutes and that little piece comes in there and then it&#8217;s gone\n\n\n\nRonald: And you want to maybe reference that to somebody else. It&#8217;s like, oh, was that 23 minutes or 28 minutes and then it&#8217;s kind of lost. You&#8217;re going to listen to the whole thing, maybe busy, but if the highlights are set of reference, quote that into a blog post. Yeah, that&#8217;s a good way to share that though. I was going to ask probably two questions. I know one of the biggest reservations to start\n\n\n\na blog is your time commitment and I think in our discussion I&#8217;ve touched a little bit on that&#8217;s like don&#8217;t commit yourself to a weekly or a daily something just whenever it&#8217;s right, whenever you feel like it. And quite often a newsletter when you say, Hey, I have a weekly newsletter. That&#8217;s pretty tough to always fill a newsletter with something inside for every single week to the point that people actually might even be turned off by it because it&#8217;s the same stuff you read five times over everywhere you in the WordPress ecosystem. So on one hand you have the time commitment, which is really tough, especially if you have busy schedule and you have five recordings in one day. How can you commit yourself to writing these blog posts? Maybe there are hack tools and then the second part is publishing, and I know you alluded to that earlier. How do you get people then to read it and how do you get to publish it? I&#8217;m glad that you mentioned Jetpack. They have some publishing tools across many different networks.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And I think that is the challenge because nothing absolutely drives me more nuts than going to read a post and at the end of the post they say, we would love for you to leave a comment over on X and they give you a link about this post and I&#8217;m like, now you&#8217;re making me go back over there. But everybody tends to do that because that&#8217;s where they feel all the conversations. But also it&#8217;s a huge mess of stuff that just goes by quickly. I mean you need to do it, but the commitment I think some people spend on social is way beyond. I mean even though they feel there&#8217;s a lot of engagement, they&#8217;re looking at their views, this is viewed by 10,000 people, this is great. Well how did that all play out? What did you really get out of those 10,000 views? What engagement was there?\n\n\n\nRonald: When you publish something to Twitter to X to Facebook and Instagram, it would be nice to have a link to those particular posts but also a little counter of what the engagement is on those or whether like 15 comments or 200 comments, it could be quite intriguing to actually go and discover that or even have some of that be reposted into the comments section of the blog to sort of bridge that data. I dunno how easy that is, but that really good truth for thought, what you just shared\n\n\n\nBobWP: And somebody just shared recently a person that is using the Fediverse pulling in content and stuff, but on their site they&#8217;re pulling in all basically their feed of everything they say out there and it&#8217;s all living on their site as a one page is a long feed. I know that next time anybody&#8217;s at a WordCamp and you want to have a nice lengthy conversation about all of this kind of social stuff, I&#8217;m find Robert Windish from side, he&#8217;s thinking, how can we make WordPress a social platform and that means your blog and stuff like that. And he has a lot of really, I mean he will talk your ear off about it, but he has a lot of interesting ideas and he&#8217;s kind of on the mission himself and that kind of brings it in, how do you tie this all together? How do you still make your site the place where people will go to? And I think we&#8217;ve gotten out of that habit, the\n\n\n\nRonald: Data liberation project, probably not excelling as far as we want. It&#8217;s not always about moving side to a different platform, but it&#8217;s also pulling in information from other platform into your own side, whether it&#8217;s private or in case of WooCommerce, it could be moving data from shipping platforms or accounting platforms but also public comments, relevant comment from social media into your own play. And I think again, what I said earlier that if everything you did or published is on WordPress that you can totally control with your own tools and what it looks like, how amazing is that? How many issues would would&#8217;ve prevent it? I think people will start to realize that as things mature, WordPress is always there and will always be there, even selling a hundred year plan. So I&#8217;m pretty confident that that&#8217;s going to be the case\n\n\n\nBobWP: And I think is there&#8217;s, even though some people really dedicate themselves to maybe a certain platform or feel that even though they still have a site that more and more people are starting to think just can&#8217;t go on or continue this way, there&#8217;s a bit of frustration I think on some people&#8217;s level and a bit, I mean I&#8217;ve even cut down my time on social just because I feel like I&#8217;m just, yeah, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s too much anymore. I still depend on RSS, that&#8217;s how I keep up on everything is my R SS feed and that I go in and check all the time. That&#8217;s the easiest way for me to do it and still the best way\n\n\n\nRonald: Controlling what comes into your inbox, what you read, what newsletter you subscribed, which block do you want to get into your feed. It&#8217;s super important that you take control over your own life. I noticed that with my own certain social media profile, how destructive it can be and we dunno quite what the result is going to be in 10, 20 years time and how their attention is going to be. But these are all challenges that we start to see the tip of the iceberg. I just want to go back because we brush over that creating the content, like writing the content and I know AI tools are big and they&#8217;ve been around for quite a few years and blogging you could almost just do it with a couple of prompts. What are your thoughts on that using AI tools in the broadest way?\n\n\n\nBobWP: For me personally, I don&#8217;t use it to create any original content. I&#8217;ve sometimes asked for a few ideas and even then it, it&#8217;s very rarely where I use it the most is repurposing content and that means existing content and I have exactly that through the transcripts. So when I mean my transcripts to give you an idea of my workflow with the transcripts, which makes sense, that leads into other content is when I get a transcript, I have it done through rev.com through their AI and I go through and I correct some of the names brands and then I take that same transcript and I run it through chat GPT and I tell it to just find any spelling errors or small grammatical errors. Sometimes you have to be careful with the prompt or it&#8217;ll actually start eliminating parts of the transcript. So I try to keep it to just really small things, which that usually fixes quite well and from that I&#8217;ll ask it to give me one or two paragraph intro to it and it&#8217;s never written exactly like I want, so I use it as a basis to just do something and then I&#8217;ll ask it for some key takeaways, which is where I think it is a lot better at and that&#8217;s the best use of it is on existing content, not on creating original content. And then I would go through and make sure it reads and take out the word delve, which AI seems to love so much. Everybody delves into everything and it just drives me. But that&#8217;s where personally and I think where it works best, I&#8217;m at an advantage because I basically have original content through the audio. I just need to have that transcribed and then work with that content. But original stuff still for me personally has to come from my brain.\n\n\n\nRonald: You could teach the LMS to be more like Bob and if you keep teaching it with your prompts probably can get much better in weeks and months to come, but that does take time. It needs to learn that as well. But that&#8217;s really interesting. I mean even just a few years back I recall you would send off your recording to be transcribed by somebody and it would be quite an expensive server and compare that now with these A alarms it&#8217;s an amazing value and so much faster and almost instant.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Oh yeah, and it&#8217;s something, yeah, for years and years I paid Rev to do human transcripts and that budget became higher and higher as I did more content obviously and more podcasts.\n\n\n\nRonald: Right. Then a little bit unpacking the part of publishing to where your audiences are, where your tribe is at, but I know in your case you have so many new audiences and communities across the globe speaking different languages. Do you track that? Do you analyze that or you don&#8217;t even go that fast right here it is. There are a few ways to find it.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, I&#8217;ve tried to do it and there&#8217;s never a rhyme or reason for whatever happens with any content. I mean a certain spike in listen and sometimes you try to track it and you think was there somebody that just happened to share? It&#8217;s out there somewhere that you don&#8217;t know about and there&#8217;s no way you can track it because suddenly it&#8217;s just out of the blue you&#8217;ll have five, six times as many listens one day as you did for the last five days or something and you can go and look at that topic and often the topic doesn&#8217;t make sense either what made this happen or was it shared internally somewhere? How do you\n\n\n\nRonald: Feel about others writing on your blog or for you, is that something, I know you talked about a little bit, but what are your thoughts around that? How far do you want to extend it? You want to keep it only within co-host or anybody that&#8217;s been on the podcast and even to the point where it&#8217;s almost could monetize the way because of anybody that publish on your platform with the audience that this build up there is some value to that.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, one of the wonderful things I have is I have a group of co-hosts. If I have an idea and this is how the newsletter thing is exactly what I did with that and I can bounce an idea off and when I bounce the idea of bringing a blog back right away, several of them were like, oh, I&#8217;d love to guess both. Which it&#8217;s not easy to get people to guess posts because it&#8217;s tough enough for them to write content for themselves. So for sure the hosts to me a no-br\n\n\n\nainer, especially if they want to follow up or write about one of the shows they&#8217;ve recently done. The guests almost are a second no-brainer because the opportunity to give them to follow up on something or to add to the conversation say, wow, after the conversation I thought about this one piece or I thought maybe they want to elaborate on one thing they were asked, they answered it one minute, but they have a lot more to say. So those kinds of things, I think it&#8217;s ideal. The podcast is run by the community. I mean I do all the grunt work, but I host you. I bring in guest hosts and all these guests and I want the blog to be that too as far as open guest spots, but I&#8217;m going to be very selective. I don&#8217;t want tutorials, I don&#8217;t want them writing about their product. It&#8217;s not\n\n\n\nRonald: The audience that you&#8217;ve built up. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And get the feedback as well in the bottom of the blog have some sort of rating tool that&#8217;s used for how would you rate this content? And so they kind of use that as a way of working where depending on the number of readers and the feedback that you get is better provide the content that readers are interested in. The other thing I saw that crossed my mind working with user levels within WordPress publisher and editor admin, whether certain speakers who might want to follow up on things or even add a supportive blog post, whether they have some sort of levels that they can add and own that piece of content.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, I guess I could say get in the groove of how I do this with the post and I still want it to be that community oriented piece and I want them to feel like they have a bit of control over that. So it&#8217;s an interesting thing to think about because I think that&#8217;s an important part.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah, it&#8217;s that community that you build up and it&#8217;s also back to the comments and empowering some writers to control and manage the comments and the conversation and that&#8217;s like bringing that back. It then becomes not quite a forum, but it is that engagement not just between the author and a few comments and that probably brings in more folks to then want to comment because they can get the audience with the speaker, with the writer and leave some nice words or ask for the question, what did you mean we did quote or does also apply to X, Y and Z. The other cool thing I found with the Jetpack tool, creating the social media images, so when you publish that something did you see that you add your featured image and a bit of text and within the post itself it generates a social media image that&#8217;s formatted for the different platform. Again, it&#8217;s one of those little hacks that just make so much easier to create a content, publish it and not be dragged down like, oh, I need to do this, I need to do that. And then weeks past you still haven&#8217;t published it because having that threshold as lowest as possible direct from public I think is key to just keep going. It doesn&#8217;t matter if it&#8217;s not perfect, even if it&#8217;s a light mistake, update it. Yours.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Exactly. And\n\n\n\nRonald: Just going back on the newsletters, because we have to bring that back in because that was the original idea is like I&#8217;m going to start with a newsletter and now we, instead of really focusing on blog, blog block and all the advantages, there&#8217;s still a place for newsletters. Where do you see that sort of fall into place?\n\n\n\nBobWP: When I visualize in my head for a newsletter and ideally what I like is I want to keep as much of this content on the site and drive people and have it as a teaser. And of course as it has been, or I guess you don&#8217;t call it newsletter, but when people get notified of a post, I mean just knowing this is a content and you can go back through and listen to what you want to read, what you want, but also is how to have that content go out automatically but also be able to add a little custom content to it to make sure that people, this is how you can more easily comment or by doing this and make it a little bit more visible. Add little snippets of something in there that\n\n\n\nRonald: Quotes from the community like, oh, Ron said this on X and that followed up in a comment here and that&#8217;ve got some great conversation going, get engaged in this if you care about this stuff or here&#8217;s a quote, I got the community talking and it was relevant here and there. And yeah, it also a good way to introduce other platforms within the own ecosystem. If you have a guest speaker from a Woo ecosystem or from a third party developer, it&#8217;s nice to be able to reference that in a newsletter I get.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And I think there&#8217;s a lot of potential, but I don&#8217;t want to make the newsletter, like you said, this is kind of more of a prompt the newsletter. And what I really want to do is when I get this all in place and things moving along, my next endeavor is to get Matt Mullenweg on. I&#8217;d love to just talk with him about blogging, comment and ping backs\n\n\n\nRonald: And did you now who is also fantastic, I know if that he should bring in a guest Tim Ferris and I know he and Matt have shared so many ideas around blogging, like long form short form. Also Seth Godin and I&#8217;ve written to some podcasts around how easy it is to share something or not at all really the thought process behind blogging and I think Matt is pretty good at that. He can share something very short, one paragraph and it&#8217;s out there or some really long bits of tech, but it&#8217;s the short ones that I&#8217;m going to take way more time to think that through. Very easy to talk and write paragraphs and paragraphs. At some point people will disengage and you kind of lost them, but keeping it super short and to the point that&#8217;s real.\n\n\n\nBobWP: And I think that&#8217;s kind of what I&#8217;m thinking about too is a lot of this and I think the site is ripe for that because there&#8217;s a lot of content we can share that is short and to the point rather than just going on and on and giving 11 tips of whatever. I mean those have its place.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah. Here&#8217;s another thing, you&#8217;re building up international communities and having the content of tribe or even the blog post, but having it with Google now, it&#8217;s so easy to have your full page translated as well. It&#8217;s almost instant. Well, it is instant. Which is a great way to repurpose content.\n\n\n\nBobWP: It is.\n\n\n\nRonald: And both ways, if you have somebody writing in a lanugage that it also accessible to English speakers or to German speaker and yeah, that&#8217;s probably something that&#8217;s not talked about a lot, but super easy.\n\n\n\nBobWP: That would be really interesting, like to open that up. We&#8217;ve done that to some effect with the one podcast where we have the community come in and talk about their own WordPress community and their locale and in their native language, and so they&#8217;re actually talking to their community. That&#8217;s another whole piece of it. And I think it is, you&#8217;re right, I know there&#8217;s podcasts in the space that does the podcast in several different languages. They actually have somebody do it in four or five languages. A little bit of the news, WordPress news, and I think there&#8217;s something there to be looked at for sure because we&#8217;re a huge community.\n\n\n\nRonald: I haven&#8217;t checked the figures, but I would sort of maybe 60, 75% of Woo users don&#8217;t live in a country where English is the first language. So maybe two thirds who don&#8217;t have English foreign language, they speak English, but to truly engage with them anyway, I guess we&#8217;ve come to the conclusion that blogging is pretty cool. I think there is blogging for anybody for yourself, whether it&#8217;s a personal diary that you have public and then you have your personal one that you keep private, whether it&#8217;s for yourself or for your business, for your ecommerce site. I think blogging for the sake of SEO definitely has value, but I don&#8217;t think that should be the prime goal to block call because then you end up in not very pretty or very well organized content to hit certain keywords and I think that puts people off. But write it for your, like you do with social media, keep it short to the point with a link to your product, to your podcast, wherever you want people to go to or the call to action. I think that probably has a good reason to consider it again.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Yeah, for sure. And definitely I think we&#8217;ve touched on enough different thing given our thoughts. Some of the direction Do the Woo might go. So if there is not a perfect post to come in and comment, anybody listening to this, this is a post because we&#8217;ve talked about a lot of things and I&#8217;m sure everybody that&#8217;s listened to it has actually thought, well, yeah, that makes sense, or nope, this is the way I would do it or this is how it works for me.\n\n\n\nRonald: And maybe that&#8217;s the comment, call out what are the forms of blog posts or good examples of other forms of blog posts like rich content, whether it snippet the codes or a gallery photos or sound snippets or maybe a poll to get voting. That all can all be part of a blog pro. It doesn&#8217;t always have to be just paragraph or words.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Right, exactly. So we&#8217;re going to encourage everybody listening now to come and leave a comment.\n\n\n\nRonald: I&#8217;m inspired now. I&#8217;m going to revisit my own site. I haven&#8217;t touched since I started working at quite a few years now. It&#8217;s all very well preaching about it, but maybe we should all get back to blogging. I think it&#8217;s a good way.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Well this has been great and yeah, everybody hope you enjoyed it and let us know your thoughts. You&#8217;ll go into the post, leave a comment.\n\n\n\nRonald: It&#8217;s been a great Blogstorm, Bob\n\n\n\n. Yeah,\n\n\n\nBobWP: I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll be right alongside there, at least in spirit one way or another.\n\n\n\nRonald: Yeah, I need to write one of the first posts or co-write to see what.\n\n\n\nBobWP: Alright, Ronald, thanks everyone for listening and yeah, let us know what you think about all this stuff we were talking about. Alright, thank you all.\n\n\n\nRonald: Thanks Bob.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of The WordPress Way, hosts BobWP and Ronald Gijsel kick up a blogstorm. What&#8217;s that?\n\n\n\nSoon here on this site you will see the blog as it returns and becomes a integral part of this builder and business community. BobWP and Ronald started brainstorming what the main goal of this blog would be offline, but it quickly ended when Ronald suggested we take it public. \n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s it. A live and fun blogstorm.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nReturn to Blogging: BobWP is considering bringing back the blog on Do the Woo after realizing the site felt incomplete without it.\n\n\n\nEngagement through Newsletters: In our case, newsletters should serve as prompts to drive people to the blog for more content, rather than being long-form content themselves.\n\n\n\nContent Strategy for Do the Woo: The blog will act as an extension of the podcast, with hosts and guests contributing posts that complement the podcast episodes.\n\n\n\nCommunity-Driven Content: The podcast and blog will be community-oriented, encouraging interaction and engagement through comments and guest contributions.\n\n\n\nImportance of Comments: BobWP believes in the value of comments and is exploring ways to drive more engagement and conversation through blog comments.\n\n\n\nBalancing Social Media and Blog Content: There&#8217;s a need to balance content between social media platforms and the blog, ensuring the blog remains the central hub of activity.\n\n\n\nLeveraging Transcripts for Content: Transcripts from podcast episodes can be repurposed into blog posts, highlighting key takeaways and providing additional value to the audience.\n\n\n\nUsing AI for Content Repurposing: AI tools can assist in repurposing existing content, such as cleaning up transcripts and generating summaries, but not for creating original content.\n\n\n\nEmbracing Multi-language Content: Considering the international nature of the audience, there&#8217;s potential to explore multi-language content to reach a broader audience.\n\n\n\nPersonal Brand and Focus: BobWP is consolidating his efforts under the Do the Woo brand, using his Gravatar profile as the primary personal identifier.\n\n\n\nEncouraging Guest Contributions: There’s a strong interest in having guest posts from hosts and podcast guests to further enrich the blog’s content.\n\n\n\nValue of Owning Content: Emphasizes the long-term value of owning content through a blog, as opposed to relying solely on transient social media platforms.\n\n\n\nUtilizing Tools like Jetpack: Jetpack&#8217;s tools, such as social media image generation and cross-platform publishing, can simplify the process of maintaining and promoting the blog.\n\n\n\nDriving Engagement through Follow-ups: Engaging the community by following up on podcast topics with blog posts, encouraging discussion, and fostering a deeper connection with the audience.\n\n\n\nBuilding a Central Content Hub: The blog should serve as the central hub for all content, with social media and newsletters acting as feeders to drive traffic back to the site.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 23 Jul 2024 09:05:43 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:27;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 84: A WordPress 6.6 Sneak Peek\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17539\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:73:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-84-a-wordpress-6-6-sneak-peek/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26873:\"Join WordPress Executive Director, Josepha Haden Chomphosy, as she offers an exclusive preview of the recently released WordPress 6.6, accompanied by special guest Meher Bala, the release&#8217;s coordinator. Don’t miss this opportunity for an insider’s look!\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\nHost:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a> Guest:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a> Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamatdayone/\">Adam Daly</a> Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a> Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 Download</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress &#8211; Core</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/C02RQBWTW\">WordPress Core Slack</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Small List of Big Things\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/07/04/first-time-attendees/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">First-Time Attendees: A Key Metric of Success for WordPress Events</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>The&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/2023/04/25/monthly-online-docs-team-contributor-day-starts-april-2023/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Docs team holds an online Contributor Day</a>&nbsp;every fourth Tuesday.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Reminder:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/online-workshops/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Online workshops</a>&nbsp;are live sessions where you can learn alongside other WordPress enthusiasts.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/media-corps/2024/07/03/recap-of-the-media-corps-briefing-on-wordpress-6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Recap of the Media Corps Briefing on WordPress 6.6</a>&nbsp;</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[00:00:00]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of some of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project and the community around it, as well as get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go!&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:28] (Intro Music)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:40]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Last week, we released WordPress 6.6, and I had a chance to chat with a long-time contributor and member of the Release Squad about it.&nbsp;Today, I have with me Meher, and she was, well I guess I will let her tell us what she did with the release, but at the time of this recording, yesterday we had the WordPress 6.6 release, codenamed &#8216;Dorsey,&#8217; and so Meher, welcome to the WordPress Briefing.\n\n\n\n[00:01:05] Meher: Hi, thank you for inviting me. It&#8217;s nice to be here.\n\n\n\n[00:01:09]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do in the WordPress project, how long you&#8217;ve been contributing, and then the role that you played in our big, big mid-year release?\n\n\n\n[00:01:19] Meher: So my name is Meher. I&#8217;m a front-end developer. I&#8217;m also a CEO of KDC. I&#8217;m also a codable expert in WordPress. I started with contributing into the marketing field. Then, slowly, for 5.6, I got to be on the release squad, learned about training, about how the release goes, process happens. From that time onwards, I&#8217;ve been part of marketing or, basically, I&#8217;ve been part of the marketing team for all the releases. For 6.6, I picked to do the Release Coordinator, something different, something new, wanting to know what goes into it.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:02:03] Josepha: That is a big leap from like hanging out in marketing to going to be the Release Coordinator. Before we get into the release itself, just what made you think to yourself, I would like to do that? I would like to stand up and wrangle all of these contributors across the world. Make sure we get a release out?\n\n\n\n[00:02:20] Meher: I wanted to try something new. Like even in WordCamp, each role is different. So, even in the release, I wanted to try each different things. And like 5.6, I was in documentation. Then, I was in marketing. So then I got used to marketing, so I stick with my, no, I stuck with marketing. \n\n\n\n[00:02:39] Josepha: Yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:02:40] Meher: So this time, I want to try something different, and I want to see, you know, how easy was it to be a Release Coordinator because it&#8217;s a Release Coordinator, see, you know, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a like a big thing coordinating so many people so many different teams going on, working together, and so yeah, it was fun.\n\n\n\n[00:02:58] Josepha: Great. I&#8217;m glad that you found it fun. I always worry when people make big shifts. I&#8217;m like, did we put enough documentation to make it clear? Are they going to find it easy to get started or not? And I think you did a really great job with it. So congratulations, since that happened just yesterday, less than 24 hours ago.\n\n\n\n[00:03:16] Meher: Yes, less than 24 hours.\n\n\n\n[00:03:21] Josepha: Yeah, yeah. So, from your position as the Release Coordinator, what are the biggest, like, one or two features that you really were excited to see get in this release?\n\n\n\n[00:03:32] Meher: Oh, one of the biggest features was the style override patterns.\n\n\n\n[00:03:37] Josepha: Oh, yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:03:38] Meher: Which I found very useful because a lot of people are using patterns. So, you know, patterns override; if you wanna change something on a specific page, it&#8217;s really useful then just to, you know, recreate a second pattern and then to match up and all. And second, which I liked as a user, was the publish box on the post becoming very clear, very, you know, cluster-free, very minimalistic, and just so comfortable that a normal user will actually understand what is there instead of going to each dropdown and figuring out what needs to be done. So, for me, I think as a developer and user, these two are the fun features, which I like, which 6.5 had, so. There are many other features as well. These are the two great features.\n\n\n\n[00:04:28] Josepha: Yeah. I mean, I don&#8217;t think that anyone can argue about the importance of making things a little easier to see, a little easier to use. It&#8217;s been a little bit since WordPress was like fall into it easy to use. I feel like we have been the easiest of the robust CMS systems for like a long time. I know I said CMS systems. That&#8217;s like saying pin number. I know that the S in CMS is systems, but anyway, that notwithstanding, we&#8217;ve been the easiest of the complex solutions for a long time, and I think it&#8217;s always great when we, when we take a moment to be like, what could we make a bit easier to just like, no instructions required you get in there and you can tell like, what any individual thing will do without necessarily, like you said, having to go into drop downs and reading a bunch of stuff a little guesswork is okay. And also, it&#8217;s clear that none of it is dangerous. And so I think that&#8217;s, I think that&#8217;s a a good change myself. So, I agree with your assessment.\n\n\n\n[00:05:27] Josepha: So the style override patterns, that&#8217;s part of the suite of design tools that we&#8217;re pulling together, right?&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:05:33] Meher: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:05:34] Josepha: in your experience, you said you&#8217;re the CEO of your company, like in your experience, does that feel like something that&#8217;s super useful for agencies or particularly useful for freelancers, or should it generally be useful for everyone?\n\n\n\n[00:05:47] Meher: It will be useful from a small business point to a freelancer as well because we always try, like, in each page, we always, you know, there is some bits repeated, you know, so, patterns makes it easier, and syndicate pattern makes it more easier so that you can just duplicate and have one place to change. And, like, you have ten pages, you have one pattern across ten pages. The 11th page, you want the same pattern, but little change in that. It&#8217;s easier. It&#8217;s good because you can just change on that page, one particular thing and still go in the parent and change other things to reflect in that. So it will be very helpful for freelancers, small agencies. I do see big agencies take advantage of it. So overall, it should help everyone.\n\n\n\n[00:06:35] Josepha: Good. Good. I, for one, isn&#8217;t it great when we can get a feature out that mostly is going to help everyone. But I have been especially interested in the features that we&#8217;re trying to get out that help that kind of like small to medium agency area. I feel like we have a lot of folks in the WordPress community who do exactly what you&#8217;re talking about. You&#8217;re getting something together. You have a mostly what you need across your site. You have one style that&#8217;s out there, but there&#8217;s this one area that you want to have a little bit more personality or a little less personality, depending on what your client is looking for, like this one is applying for jobs, and it needs to be a little less exciting or whatever it is.\n\n\n\n[00:07:13] Josepha: I think that&#8217;s great that we have that option. So you don&#8217;t have to try to, I don&#8217;t know, hack your way through that. I know that we&#8217;re not a super get-in-there-and hack-on-it sort of group anymore these days, but I love that we still have that feeling of we&#8217;re gonna, we&#8217;re going to make this a safe hacking space for you. Just get in there and make it work. So that&#8217;s excellent. Excellent. So for you, then, personally, cause you wear a lot of hats, you&#8217;ve your front-end developer; you&#8217;re running your company, you&#8217;re working, you&#8217;re a codable expert. You&#8217;ve got all these things. So from your perspective, what is the thing that got into this release that was a surprising, like a diamond in the rough for you, like a surprising good feature when you just thought it was like an important feature at some point? Was there one that seemed like it was a good idea but became a great idea by the time it was out?\n\n\n\n[00:08:00] Meher: Oh, I would say style variations because I did not expect the final style variation to be what it is. A theme developer can create the theme, can add styles, can add fonts, can give different design elements to the theme as a normal user when they when someone wants to just pull up a website, but they&#8217;re not good in design, or they don&#8217;t know which font to use. They choose which font, but then it doesn&#8217;t work. So if the theme provides an easy option just to shift the different styles they&#8217;re using and combining with the fonts. It is a much bigger opportunity for everyone because a normal user can just, they have a black and white site. I want to shift to a colorful site. Just go and see what the theme art has given you and shift it. So I think that I was surprised and I like the outcome. I&#8217;m sure my blogger friends also will like it because then they don&#8217;t have to depend on a designer to you know, give them color schemes and stuff.\n\n\n\n[00:09:01] Josepha: Yes. Yeah. So unrelated. It&#8217;s only, it&#8217;s kind of related. I shouldn&#8217;t say it&#8217;s unrelated. It&#8217;s all about WordPress. And now it&#8217;s about color palettes. So, I have a new design on my blog. And unfortunately I am the sort of person that does need a designer to tell me what I meant by the thing I thought. And so, like, I had this idea of the sort of color palette that I wanted and was searching for color palettes inside themes, which I was not succeeding at. And eventually I had a designer who was happy to help you figure this out and get something out there. And they got me something that&#8217;s absolutely perfect. It&#8217;s got an excellent color palette and they redid some images for me. So it looks nice and hip and feels kind of modern. I think it&#8217;s great. But the one thing that I consistently felt confident to mess with while I was in there, because I think they did some custom work in there too, is all of the stuff that&#8217;s included in style variations. Like, I&#8217;m not touching colors because I can&#8217;t put colors together to save my life. But I was pleasantly surprised also by that particular feature. It gives you a feeling of I can change the face of this through the fonts or whatever it is. And I think that&#8217;s a nice, a nice thing.\n\n\n\n[00:10:06] Meher: And it&#8217;s a, it&#8217;s a perfect combination. Color and font. Because a lot of people don&#8217;t know today&#8217;s time which font is good. Or which font is needed for an industry.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:10:16] Josepha: Exactly. Fortunately, I&#8217;m a site manager of one. And so I just had to ask myself if I liked the font and moved on from there. So, oh. So, like I said, as we&#8217;re recording this, we are less than 24 hours past the release. How was your experience with this release? Was it enjoyable? Did it like expand your horizons? Were there surprises in how a release is run?\n\n\n\n[00:10:43] Meher: There was no surprises because I&#8217;ve already been a part of a release. So I.\n\n\n\n[00:10:47] Josepha: That&#8217;s&nbsp;fair.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:10:49] Meher: You know, it&#8217;s depends on what happens on the day.&nbsp;But yes, behind the scenes, following up, just checking in to make sure, are we on time, do we need more time, or what needs, you know, how much more time is required. It was fairly good, I was only clearly concerned about on the day of the release, because there&#8217;s a lot of things to cover.\n\n\n\n[00:11:09] Josepha: Yes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:11:10] Meher: Usually, the party of the beta and the RCs finish in less than hour or so. But the final has a lot more detailed steps and many people to ping, to get, you know, them on the day of the release.\n\n\n\n[00:11:24] Josepha: Yeah, for folks who have never watched a release happen. So, I think a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast, they find it in the dashboard, they don&#8217;t necessarily contribute to WordPress. But, like, if you&#8217;ve never watched a WordPress release, we have these release parties for every beta that goes out, every release candidate that goes out, and then the general release. And I always find them so fascinating because, we have hundreds of contributors over the course of an individual release. And then we have probably 50, 60 people who show up at, for some of you all, in the middle of the night and are just being directed, like their attention is just being directed here and there.\n\n\n\n[00:12:06] Josepha: And I love watching it because I, I&#8217;m always in the release channel. I&#8217;m in the core channel. All of these are in Slack. And then I&#8217;m also in the admin channel where you have to do the flipping of switches and packaging things. And it&#8217;s really interesting to see, almost like a scan of a brain where things are lighting up for various things. Like, you do the pre-testing in the release channel, and then you do the general testing in the core channel. And then we&#8217;ve got like a person who&#8217;s flipping switches in the back, in the admin area to make sure that it all gets together. And it&#8217;s just really interesting to see how it all works. And yeah, it&#8217;s a really fun thing.\n\n\n\nDear listener, if you have never, if you&#8217;ve never done this, you have another opportunity. And I think the next release is early in November or something. And even if you&#8217;re there as like a spectator, not necessarily ready to take part in the release, sometimes it&#8217;s kind of nice to see how much effort and how many people are showing up to work on any individual release.\n\n\n\n[00:13:01]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;This was your first time to lead the release parties, though, right?\n\n\n\n[00:13:06] Meher: Yes. My first time releasing a release party. Also, to the spectators who have never been a part of release, you can just come and say hi. Like, yesterday, on the day of the release, there was one participant who joined for the first time, and she did contribute.&nbsp;And she was amazed by how smooth it went through. And for me, the best part of any release is seeing the green tick when people start testing. So, you know, everything is smooth sailing.\n\n\n\n[00:13:34] Josepha: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:13:34] Meher: And we&#8217;ll reach the destination.\n\n\n\n[00:13:36] Josepha: Yes. It&#8217;s, it is a real testament to how well and how closely all of these folks can work together, which if you stop and think about the fact that everybody&#8217;s like all over the world, it&#8217;s all across the globe that this is happening. It is why WordPress works, right? All of these people, all of you coming together to do this on behalf of this software. How cool that you had somebody who joined for the first time and then they were able to contribute immediately.\n\n\n\n[00:14:02] Meher: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:14:03] Josepha: I love that.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:14:04] Meher: Also, there are a lot of folks who&#8217;ve done it. So they&#8217;re always ready to help out. You know, if you&#8217;re stuck somewhere, as a first-time release lead, there were certain questions I had. There are a lot of people to guide you to the right direction or to say, this needs to go here, or you need to tell the audience this. A lot of support you get from the squad itself, plus the people who are not on the squad and who&#8217;ve done this.\n\n\n\n[00:14:29] Josepha: Absolutely. I remember the first release that I led I was the coordinator of it and I believe it was 5.0. I believe it was the one that we put Gutenberg in core with, and it was the most terrifying thing I&#8217;d ever done. Not because I hadn&#8217;t been watching these releases happening for years, but because it&#8217;s different participating and watching and then being the person who is like you said, like making sure that things are still going on time that you understand when you need to say, like, there&#8217;s no way that this works for users right now. We have to take it out and all those things. And then, yeah, the day of, the first time that you have to run one of those global meetings, be like, &#8216;everyone, we don&#8217;t have time for this. Move on&#8217;. That&#8217;s always a really hard first time. Well, cool. That&#8217;s so exciting. So I have a last question for you, and that is, you&#8217;ve kind of let us into it, for first-time contributors to a release, especially anyone who&#8217;s thinking about joining the release squad for the first time, do you have any advice, anything that you wish you had been told when you were coming into this?\n\n\n\n[00:15:32] Meher: Come with an open mind and come with a thought that there are people to help you. Ask in any channel. There will be someone or the other who will answer you immediately or a little later, depending on the time zone, and will guide you to the right person or right documentation where you can read up because there is a lot of documentation, good documentation on releases, how it handles and what team is needed, what they are supposed to do. So, you, you have a friendly bunch of people. Just ask.\n\n\n\n[00:16:03] Josepha: Excellent. I love it. I love that advice. That was really good advice. Don&#8217;t be scared. Everybody has answers, and they want to give them to you. I agree. That is a real strong truth for the WordPress project. Last thoughts: anything you want to share with the WordPress community with our community of listeners here?\n\n\n\n[00:16:20] Meher: Looking forward for new people joining the next release and seeing 6.7 new features, which I&#8217;m excited about, collaborative phase three coming into picture and excited about it.\n\n\n\n[00:16:32] Josepha: Yeah. So you can come join us, make.WordPress.org/core, or you can join us in the Slack instance. You can go to chat.WordPress.org and get signed up for that. We coordinate all of this in the core channel, and we hope to see every new contributor that&#8217;s been on the fence. We hope you show up. There&#8217;s a new meeting every two weeks just for y&#8217;all. Meher, this has been an excellent conversation. Thank you so much for joining me today.\n\n\n\n[00:16:56] Meher: Thank you for having me. It was fun.\n\n\n\n[00:16:58] (Music interlude)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:17:05] Josepha: Hopefully, you&#8217;ve had a chance to download the release and try it out on your own sites. As always, if you run into any bugs, let us know so that we can get them in the next point release.\n\n\n\nAnd that brings us now to our small list of big things. I have a moderate-sized small list. The first one is that WordPress is a reminder, actually. It&#8217;s a lot of reminders this week if I get right down to it, but this first one is a reminder that one of our big-picture goals for 2024 was getting new users into our event series. Our goal, of course, is to warmly welcome more first-time attendees and new users, and future WordPressers at all of our events, and that&#8217;s something that you can help get done. So, for all of our event organizers, or if you have not organized an event yet and would like to, just so that you can meet the fellow WordPressers in your area or, get to grow your own network a little bit. We&#8217;ve got a few best practices that can help you to make sure that you have a good experience for first time attendees. For one, you should always consider some thoughtful event design. Craft your events with some first-time attendees in mind. You have to consider their needs and interests and potential barriers to participation. Second, it helps to have some targeted messaging. Ensure that you have promotional materials that highlight the benefits of attending, but also what new knowledge, skills, or professional connections folks will gain when they come. It&#8217;s also good to share success stories of past first-time attendees. And then just kind of a final note for that on outreach strategies. You should experiment with a range of marketing channels to reach professional new attendees. You can partner with local schools, professional organizations, and online communities who can help to spread the word.\n\n\n\n[00:18:52] Josepha: The second thing on our small list of big things is a reminder that the Docs Team holds an online Contributor Day every fourth Tuesday. They&#8217;ve been doing this for about a year now. And I think that it&#8217;s one of the most engaging and fun new contributor experiences we have, which I realize might sound odd for documentation, but it&#8217;s a great team. It&#8217;s got a great number of team reps in it. And they&#8217;re looking for you. They&#8217;re looking out for you to come and join for your first time on a Contributor Day. The next one is actually tomorrow, July 23rd. I&#8217;ll have a link for that in the show notes.\n\n\n\n[00:19:29] Josepha: And the third thing on our list is a reminder about online workshops. These are live sessions where you can learn alongside other WordPress enthusiasts, and they&#8217;re, you know, safe spaces where you can come as you are, develop new ideas, explore issues that you&#8217;re having, ask questions, network over shared interests, exchange theories, collaborate, and honestly, thrive on a bit of problem-solving together. New workshops are happening all the time. You can check out the schedule to join in on a live session and even watch some of the previous sessions to see if it&#8217;s for you.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:20:03] Josepha: And the final thing on our list is that there is a recap up of the first Media Corps Briefing that was held on June 27th, and it provided media partners with an overview of the Source of Truth and updates that were planned for WordPress 6.6, that was released last week. Obviously, we just talked to Meher about it. But that particular session featured guest Anne McCarthy, who explained and demoed some of the upcoming features and answered a bunch of questions from the participants. The briefing was recorded and published on the WordPress YouTube channel. Apart from the recording, you can also find a summary, the full transcript, and other relevant links from the link in the show notes.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:20:42]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard today, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I am your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thank you for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing. And I&#8217;m taking a little break from the podcast in August, and so I will see you again, my friends, in September.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:21:15] (Music outro)&nbsp;\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 22 Jul 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:28;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:89:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #104 – Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=29449\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:87:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62481:\"In this episode, Carolina Nymark and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6 and more.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/#transcript\">Transcript</a>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nShow Notes\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Special Guest: Carolina Nymark</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena/\">WordPress Profile @poena</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/carolinapoena\">On X (former Twitter) @carolinapoena </a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/\">FullsiteEditing.com</a></h2>\n\n\n\nUpdated pages: \n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/global-styles/\">Global Styles &amp; theme.json</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/theme-json-color-options/\">Theme.json color options</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/theme-json-font-size/\">Theme.json typography: Font size</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/theme-json-typography-font-styles/\">Theme.json typography: Line height, font weight and more</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://fullsiteediting.com/lessons/how-to-add-box-shadows-with-theme-json/\">How to add shadows with theme.json</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.6</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/18/wordpress-6-6-1-rc1-is-now-available/\">WordPress&nbsp;6.6.1&nbsp;RC1 is now available</a>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/24/section-styles/\">Section Styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/06/21/styling-sections-nested-elements-and-more-with-block-style-variations-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Styling sections, nested elements, and more with Block Style Variations in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/19/theme-json-version-3/\">Theme.json version 3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/themes/2024/06/21/theme-json-version-3-frequently-asked-questions/\">Theme.json version 3 frequently asked questions</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/06/18/an-introduction-to-overrides-in-synced-patterns/\">An introduction to overrides in Synced Patterns</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/62566#top\">Synced Patterns iteration for WordPress 6.7 (Draft)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/18/grid-layout-type/\">Grid layout type</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/recap-hallway-hangout-exploring-grid-layouts/\">Recap Hallway Hangout: Exploring Grid Layouts</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\">Developer Hours: Do you really need a custom block?</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/04/15-ways-to-curate-the-wordpress-editing-experience/\">15 ways to curate the WordPress editing experience</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/block-editor/how-to-guides/curating-the-editor-experience/\">Docs: Curating the Editor Experience</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.8</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.8 (17 July)</a>&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s discussed or in the works</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/63335\">[Experiment] Add freeform image cropper component</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/55238\">Media Library updates&nbsp;</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/56837#top\">Add color and other style options to the Audio Block</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nStay in Touch\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\">Please write us a review </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\nTranscript\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Hello, and welcome to our 104th episode of the Gutenberg ChangeLog podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we&#8217;ll talk about block themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6, and so much more. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and full-time core contributor for the WordPress Core, Open Source Project sponsored by Automattic Five For The Future Program.\n\n\n\nToday I&#8217;m delighted to have with me on the show Carolina Nymark, core contributor, sponsored by Yoast. She writes on fullsiteediting.com and she regularly updates and adds features to the Gutenberg plugin and block themes, and she&#8217;s from Sweden. Thank you so much for being on the show. How are you today, Carolina?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Hi, I&#8217;m well, thank you. June was a very hot month, but July has actually been a little bit cooler. We have had some rain here just outside Stockholm, so it&#8217;s been nice.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. So yeah, the rain&#8230; In Germany it&#8217;s still very hot or it&#8217;s up and down. It was cooler earlier this month, but it&#8217;s now really, really hot. And I&#8217;m glad, I&#8217;m going out to the lake or maybe I&#8217;m going to go jump into the lake that&#8217;s a little bit southeast of Munich over the weekend. So hopefully the weather holds to actually have that.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: That sounds amazing.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, well, we&#8217;ll see. We are also working on the house of my parents, to fix some of the things, and I don&#8217;t know how much time we&#8217;re going to have. Yeah. So yeah, let&#8217;s just get into the show.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements &#8211; WordPress 6.6</h3>\n\n\n\nThe long-awaited release of WordPress 6.6 happened earlier this week and it&#8217;s named Dorsey after the legendary American big band leader, Tommy Dorsey, with the smooth sounds.\n\n\n\nThe release post actually sports a Spotify link with a playlist of his great songs. It took about 630 contributors from 51 countries, and this release also welcomed over 150 first-time contributors. That&#8217;s a huge number every time we have a release with the new contributors. So I&#8217;m really happy that we can onboard so many new contributors and get them on the release.\n\n\n\nWell, since the roadmap came out on 6.6 in March, we talked about the upcoming releases quite a bit. So for you Carolina, the next question I ask almost everybody who was on the show, what are the most exciting updates in WordPress 6.6 for you?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Well, I hope this isn&#8217;t too repetitive, but there are several things. The updated block style variations or section styles is a great addition. It helps users quickly select a pattern or a part of a page and just really changes the style of it. It helps WordPress developers to work faster as well.\n\n\n\nI&#8217;ve heard some rumors that this is only a feature for block themes, and that is not true. You can use these section styles even in classic themes, as long as you&#8217;re using the block editor. Because you do not need to use JSON or a theme JSON file to register these. You can register them with PHP.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That&#8217;s true. Yeah. The block styles have been in Gutenberg for a long time, but the section styles are just coming in that you have a group of blocks that the styles apply to for the container blocks, like the group blocks, the columns block, and what was the other one? Was it media text?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Cover perhaps. I&#8217;ve mainly been testing it out.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, with the cover. Yeah. Yeah, you&#8217;re right. You&#8217;re testing them out? You were going to say?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I was going to move on to my next favorite feature.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, okay. So let me just say that we have in the show notes two things for you, dear listeners. And that&#8217;s going to be the dev notes about sections styles. And also the latest developer blog post about styling sections, nested elements, and more about the block style variations in WordPress 6.6. So what else is exciting for you?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: We have the update where we&#8217;re using theme version three, which solves problems with the font size and spacing presets. And the presets are the default values that WordPress adds. So before we can upgrade to version three, of course the developers need to learn about the changes. And they need to decide if they actually want to upgrade or not.\n\n\n\nAnd this is going to depend on, well, which WordPress version do you need to support you. If you&#8217;re supporting WordPress 6.6 and forwards, then you can definitely switch to version three. But if you still need to support, I don&#8217;t know, 6.0, 6.3 and so on, then you have to consider this more carefully.\n\n\n\nSo of course there&#8217;s been many discussions about this with theme developers, especially in WordCamp Europe. And so for example, their discussions about, so if I switch to version three, I&#8217;m also going to have to update the spacing that I&#8217;m using inside the templates. And again, we come back to, okay, so if I update the template, how do I make sure that the end user knows that there is a theme update, that to actually receive this update to the template they might have to go and reset the template on their installation. It&#8217;s just tricky. It&#8217;s an important decision to make if you&#8217;re supporting many different WordPress versions.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. That has always been a bigger problem for theme developers when they update their templates and the user has modified the templates through the Global Styles, that the updates are not overwriting those. Because the user has the latest priority or the highest priority. So a theme update wouldn&#8217;t necessarily come through and make this available for all the sites. Yeah, that&#8217;s true.\n\n\n\nThis doesn&#8217;t go away with the theme JSON version though, version 3, but it makes it probably a little easier. But what will make it easier is another feature we&#8217;re going to talk about, but I just wanted to point out as a side note that Carolina Nymark has updated pages on the fullsiteediting.com site to include all the new developments and updates, and I think there are five pages that were updated.\n\n\n\nThere was one on Global Styles and theme JSON. Theme JSON color options and typography options for fun, size, line height, font rate and more, and then how to add shadows with the theme JSON. So the great site, fullsiteediting.com that focuses so much on block theme, teaches you even more on the new developments. So thanks, Carolina, for putting all the work in. Yeah, so what&#8217;s next? So we had the style sections, we have the theme JSON changes, and then&#8230;\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: We also have the overrides for synced patterns. This helps you to keep the overall form, shape, the sign of parts of the content that they have inserted, but still change part of the content. For example, if you have this group block with the specific image and the heading that highlights your feature and the button, then maybe you want to use different images and you can go in and only change that image.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that&#8217;s a great tool.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: And go update. So it&#8217;s not super easy to explain, but yes, it&#8217;s very helpful for site creators. From a theme developer perspective, there&#8217;s not much one can do with the overrides for synced patterns, since themes cannot register synced patterns, only regular standard patterns.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s no attribute that I as a theme developer can add, for example, to my patent PHP file to make it synced on theme activation. That doesn&#8217;t exist. But hopefully we can continue working on that and find ways to make that happen.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, so let me unpack that for a little bit. So if a user wants to create a synced pattern and use one of the theme patterns as a blueprint for that, they need to use the duplicate feature in the panel manager.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And then switch on the synced part and preferably also rename it so they don&#8217;t see it twice in the list of patterns.But then if the pattern gets updated through the theme, they could see it, but their duplicate version won&#8217;t update. So they need to take care of that.\n\n\n\nBut I like the synced pattern for site builders, because it releases quite a few headaches that you had before. That you couldn&#8217;t update the patterns and styles through the Global Styles, now you can. And now you can also have your users or your other editors use the same and just change your mind about the background.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: It helps if you have editors and you only want them to be able to edit specific things, then the synced patterns with overrides definitely helps with that. That&#8217;s one of their biggest purposes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Also for myself, if I had a pattern that I can change the content of it more and more or more often, and reuse it for a book review or for just a call for action. And I always have the same design, but the call to action is a different one. It also helps me as a site owner quite a bit to streamline my processes.\n\n\n\nBut you&#8217;re right, so developer block has an introduction to the overrides in synced patterns. That will be interesting to learn about, if you want to read, if you want to learn about it. And then also link an iteration tracking issue for synced pattern in WordPress 6.7. It&#8217;s still named a draft, but it has, when you look at it, it lists all the issues that theme developers had with the synced patterns and that they want to get fixed or enabled or feature requests. And one of them is actually make synced patterns available for theme developers.\n\n\n\nThere&#8217;s also great discussions from quite a few theme developers in the community that have been vocal about that, and the responses from the developers like Riad bringing it all together in an overall model for synced patterns. So I&#8217;m really looking forward to how that works going to progress. I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s going to be coming to WordPress 6.7, because we only would know by the end of September, but there&#8217;s two months or two and a half months to go to actually work on that. Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I&#8217;m just thinking that two and a half months, it&#8217;s a very short time. The release squad for the 6.7 release, the post where you can sign up or actually apply to be part of the release squad has been up. I guess we&#8217;ll know more later next week.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I think so. I&#8217;m going to put it in the show notes, what you&#8217;re just saying, the post with a proposal for the release and raise your hand if you want to be part of it. And there&#8217;s also a section, on the core block was another post that was, what would you like to see in the theme Twenty Twenty Five?\n\n\n\nBecause every year the last release of the year also comes with a new default theme. And I&#8217;m looking forward to what&#8217;s going to be next in there, and how many of the features that we are talking about right now are coming into the default theme.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes, absolutely. So there actually is a GitHub repository already open for Twenty Twenty Five, where you can submit issues with what we&#8217;d like to see. For example, maybe you want to see an example of how we see negative margins. Or maybe you want to see the new grid variation, which is now&#8230; So the grid has been available in WordPress, but it hasn&#8217;t had the same kind of UI interface and options that we see in 6.6.\n\n\n\nSo in 6.6 we have the grid as a group variation. I&#8217;m looking forward to learning more about how to actually use these settings. I&#8217;m not familiar with them yet. Actually I do find it a little bit confusing. So I have to really set dedicated time to learning this. So we have the grid and we are able to, for example, set how many columns we want in the grid. We can adapt how our content inside the grid will flow into a different row, for example.\n\n\n\nBut then you have to go and select there the block that is inside the grid and decide, do I want this particular block to be two columns wide? Or do I want it to be two rows, for example? So once I feel comfortable with that and know how it works, then I think we&#8217;re going to be able to create some really interesting layouts.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, you do. And there was a hallway hangout and you provided that link to it also with Isabel Bryson who actually worked quite a bit on that feature. And she showed off how she&#8217;s going to use it or how she worked on it and what you can do with it. I really liked the way that you could say, okay, any column that is in the grid needs to be&#8230; Or any cell that needs to have a minimum width of 300, and then it automatically flows with the screen size.\n\n\n\nSo if it&#8217;s a mobile screen, then you get them all stacked, and if it&#8217;s a tablet, you get two columns, or maybe&#8230; Nah, three is probably not wide enough. And then when you&#8217;re on the big screen you get as much as the layout of your website allows, and stack them, have three or four in a row.\n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s really good. And it&#8217;s a responsive way to make your layouts without having to think about responsiveness. So I think that&#8217;s a great feature for users because it&#8217;s a new concept anyway, and our users that haven&#8217;t been able to create layouts or do some editing on their theme or of their headers and that, there is another jump there to make to get the concepts right. Because I think we have some anecdotal evidence that for some people it was hard to figure out are we editing a template or am I editing this particular page?\n\n\n\nAnd we are then surprised when they thought they&#8217;re editing a page that it changed for the whole site. So yeah, there are now a few guardrails in the site editor. I&#8217;m not sure if there are enough, but I&#8217;m also thinking that it gets better and better the more people are using it and the more people get confused and talk about it to find the right way to do this.\n\n\n\nAnd a grid layout, you don&#8217;t have to think about that much. That&#8217;s a concept that people can really adhere to or find, maybe not that hard to&#8230; I saw quite a few of those layouts where you have a stacked group block inside a grid cell and those are really cool. Or have a row inside a grid cell. And those behave really well also in the responsiveness.\n\n\n\nSo I&#8217;m excited about the grid layout. I&#8217;m really waiting for a masonry grid layout that goes with the flow in every direction. I&#8217;m not sure if that&#8217;s yet available. I have the feeling they&#8217;re not, but there are some experiments that you can&#8230; If you use the Gutenberg plugin there&#8217;s an experiment page and you can switch on interactive grid layouts and do even more experiments, explorations with that feature for 6.7. Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. I definitely have to go and check that out. One thing that I would like to see, I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s possible, I don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s possible, but when you have a query loop and you have the post-template block inside of it, you have the option to select between lists and the grid. And I would like that grid option that you select in the toolbar of the post-template block to have the same type of options. So that I would be able to have&#8230; Maybe I want the second post in my query to be two rows tall, for example. I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s possible.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Not yet. I had the same question.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Have all the signs for the post. Well the thing is, it&#8217;s a loop, so of course it loops through every post. I&#8217;m not sure&#8230; We&#8217;ll get to that later when we talk about the plugin, I think. Because in the query loop, of course you can&#8217;t add it. If you add a block to your post-template it&#8217;s going to be the same block, same text for whatever these posts. I&#8217;m not sure if it would be possible to have one post to be taller or wider than everyone else. Unless of course you want to go and do custom CSS, which is absolutely possible. But from the editor, I&#8217;m not sure, but I would really like that.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. In the editor it&#8217;s not possible yet. I did, well many, many years ago, a layout for a news outlet that had I think six columns and the main post was three columns wide and then one was two column, one column and underneath there were six different posts that are kind of in the header section. And that&#8217;s not available yet, that you can&#8230;\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: No, exactly. So if you wanted, for example, one full word sticky post you&#8217;d have to use, today you&#8217;d use custom CSS to achieve that. Or maybe you&#8217;d even have two query loops, which of course at some point it&#8217;s going to be a performance issue if you have to do it twice. But you can&#8217;t do that with the options on the block now.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Maybe we can&#8230; One can say that the sticky post is always, I don&#8217;t know, two columns or three columns. But yeah, it&#8217;s all&#8230; Because all of a sudden everybody has a different need and then I cannot imagine the interface, how many dials. And so you could offer the user, though they have every use case in there. But yeah, we&#8217;ll see what&#8217;s going to be possible later on.\n\n\n\nAnd I&#8217;m thinking that that&#8217;s also a great place for plugins to extend the core blocks to use the grid block in certain ways and try that out to say, okay, what is possible and push the limits a little bit on that.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s going to be responses now saying, oh, but this has existed in my plugin for three years. Awesome.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Sadly I have not seen it. I do not have time, there&#8217;s many page building plugins or block collections, unfortunately.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. All right. So as I said, so I think, is there anything else from WordPress 6.6 that stands out for you apart from those theme-related features?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I&#8217;m a theme nerd. Everything is theme-related. We have the background. So the background image settings where you can now add the background image to various blocks and to the site wide Global Styles from the site editor for block themes.\n\n\n\nI have mixed feelings about this because I&#8217;m glad it is more now&#8230; It has a higher&#8230; How to say? It matches the customized settings better where you could add the background image. But I&#8217;m a little concerned that we are going to end up with these group blocks where people are adding text on top of the image and the text is not going to be readable, it&#8217;s not going to be accessible.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: We&#8217;ll see.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I think all the design tools bring hives to some designers because they don&#8217;t think that a lot of WordPress users are good designers, so they shouldn&#8217;t have access to those tools. And I&#8217;m reminded that there was a big movement in the internet, it&#8217;s called GeoCities or MySpace, where you had all those tools already at your fingertips. And there were quite some funky signs out there. But that&#8217;s kind of the creativity that is bred when you give people tools.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: That&#8217;s when we used the tables, HMO tables to other layouts and we had the dancing baby in the diaper and more.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Chip animations, yeah. Using spacer. But we found that spacer images are coming back with the spacer block, right?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that&#8217;s interesting. So again, we are going to talk about this, about improving the block supports. So in the Gutenberg 18.8, we&#8217;re adding shadow supports for groups.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I don&#8217;t know if I should bring this now.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It&#8217;s your PR, right? Well let&#8217;s talk about it when we go through the Changelog and we&#8217;ll be there in about 2 minutes.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. In relation to the space block, so we are now not only adding the shadow, we&#8217;re working now for the next release. To add color options and spacing options to more blocks to make it more consistent. Because we have text-based blocks. It doesn&#8217;t even have text color. One of these ideas is of course, are we going to have a background on the space block or not? That discussion might be interesting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Indeed, indeed. Because there are also some great separator blocks and spacer blocks. It&#8217;s kind of both. Yeah, right, it&#8217;s a spacer or a separator that has some design to it. And the other CSS you can do some really funky things with waves and going from triangles and that kind of thing. And different kinds of patterns, how the background shines into the next block.\n\n\n\nAnd I like those. I&#8217;m thinking maybe putting a plugin together with, there was a site that has a lot of separators CSS already displayed, and you can probably fairly easy, add them to a plugin so people can have an additional&#8230; So it&#8217;s a web dev separator generator, that&#8217;s called.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. Okay, interesting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I&#8217;m going to look at that. It&#8217;s from the W Web Dev, GitHub group. So I&#8217;ll share the link in the show notes and&#8230;\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah, a plugin would be a good idea for that. Because it can of course be used in any theme. The problem with doing this kind of thing, like a pattern, if you wanted to do the pattern and submit it to the pattern directory, is that you can&#8217;t use custom CSS.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Or add it to a theme, but then it&#8217;s not going from theme to theme. Yeah. Then it&#8217;s not&#8230;\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: No, exactly.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It kind of goes away.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Omitted.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, right. I know that we can talk about quite a few things and we will, but today, just right now this minute, I wanted to do a side note. Because with all the features that come to developers and for no-code site builders in WordPress 6.5 and 6.6, you might not need to create a custom block to extend core functionality, that much anymore, because you could use block bindings or you could use other tools. That is not that.\n\n\n\nSo on July 23rd, JuanMa Garrido and Nick Diego will hold developer hours again, and with the title Do You Really Need a Custom Block? And they will explore with you, their listeners if you want to join them, how to add new functionality to core blocks by content only editing and the allowed blocks attribute and patterns.\n\n\n\nSo a lot of people review their custom blocks if they couldn&#8217;t replace them with patterns because they don&#8217;t have to maintain so much code or integrate block bindings and block variations. Well block variations, you need a little bit more development there. When effective block blocking and naming as well as of course our latest, most favorite feature synced pattern overrides.\n\n\n\nSo July 23rd, a 1500 UTC, that will take place. It&#8217;s a live stream on Zoom and that&#8217;s 9:00 AM eastern in the US, 1500 UTC, 9:00 AM Eastern on July 23rd. And also for the same topic, there is also a developer blog post out that lists 15 ways to curate the WordPress editing experience from disabling specific blocks. So panel directory or unregistered formatting for the rich text block to disabling certain sidebar panels.\n\n\n\nAnd I know switching on and off for features is really important for clients and content creators, that it&#8217;s a major concern for agencies and publishers. And we talked about it earlier as well. And this post is a great snippet collection. It also points it to the right places in the documentation and there are always ways to disable custom colors and core presets in the theme JSON.\n\n\n\nAnd I&#8217;m sure the Full Site Editing Global Styles and theme JSON has some notes about that too. So that&#8217;s kind of about the overall WordPress experience. Do you want to comment on any of that?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I&#8217;ll try to attend. It&#8217;s sounds really like an interesting call. Yeah, I enjoyed the post about the 15 ways to security experience as well.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; Gutenberg 18.8</h3>\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: All right, so we&#8217;ve come to what everybody&#8217;s waiting for, is what&#8217;s Gutenberg 18.8? So 211 PRs merged into the plugin release. 57 of those were enhancements, 77 were bug fixes and 35 of those bug fixes were actually back ported to core and made it into WordPress 6.6 and were included in the release candidate three.\n\n\n\nBut that&#8217;s all snow from yesterday, as we say in Germany, badly translated of course. But it&#8217;s in 6.6. Sixty contributors worked on this release, 10 of them, again, first-time contributors, so congratulations to all. So what&#8217;s in there is a good mixture between experimental stuff, updates on UI as well as some developer stuff and of course bug fixes.\n\n\n\nBut the one new feature that comes in as an experiment is the data form. We know about data views. That&#8217;s how all the list views in WP admin could look. When you look at the site editor, you see how pages could look and patterns and all that, organized in new views and grid layouts and all that. But what it does not have yet is a data form component. And this is now implemented as a first prototype in the iteration process to duplicate page actions.\n\n\n\nSo there is a modal that opens up and you get a form, you have to fill that in and hit a submit button, and that is the prototype that comes in. But take a look at it, if you&#8217;re a plugin developer, you probably can already see how that works for your plugin maybe, or how that can go into the WordPress 6.7. I think it&#8217;s still an experiment though. It hasn&#8217;t been released as an official or maybe not.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I&#8217;m not sure actually.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: No, no, it&#8217;s actually in the plugin. It&#8217;s not an experiment, any duplicate&#8230; So it&#8217;s in the duplicate action that you can see. So when would you duplicate it? You would duplicate a pattern, you would duplicate a page, you would duplicate a template. Yeah, so all these duplicate actions will use that component.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah, it&#8217;ll help with the consistency and also of course make it easier to reuse these forms.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And also have a standard way of doing forms and you don&#8217;t have to make decisions as a plugin developer on, how do I do this? Use the form. But it&#8217;s not there yet. But what is an experiment is having&#8230; So we have pages, we have patterns, we have templates, we have styles, template parts, which are our patterns, what we don&#8217;t have in the new admin section are posts.\n\n\n\nYou still have to get out and go into the WP admin to add that and you still would have to do this. But there is a PR in this release where it at least has the framework around to putting a post list into the data we use as well. This is an experiment that needs to be enabled through the experiments page of the plugin. The next thing is yes, you know all about it. Carolina, is that support for shadows for the group block. Yay. We were waiting for it. Thank you.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I received so many comments in praise for this and I&#8217;m like, okay, thank you. But sorry, this change it&#8217;s&#8230; So when you create a block support, you create these setting and the UI for it and you do that once. Because it&#8217;s the support blocks opt into it, compared to a block attribute, which normally is unique and only developed for that single block. So when you enable support on new blocks or in your plugin, you change maybe three lines of code and then you&#8217;re done.\n\n\n\nThis is usually how it works. And this is how it worked for the group block shadow. It was a very simple change. We needed to do some manual testing to see about how to consider the overlap and the shadow was very long. Do we need to do something about that? And we ended up not doing anything, except labeling it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, and with the&#8230; Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. There are some other blocks where it&#8217;s not as simple. We are discovering bugs recently, early this week, not in this plugin release, but maybe the next one or the next after that. We found that there were still some remaining styles from the list block that affected other blocks that used the list element. So that was fixed, so that&#8217;s good.\n\n\n\nSo we discovered this one when we added background color and realized, wait a minute, the background color, it&#8217;s a little bit off here. So that&#8217;s how we discovered it. So sometimes it&#8217;s very easy to do this, but I also have a pull request for adding the border to the site logo, which has been going on since Twenty Twenty Three. And that is way more complex because we have to work with a link. Without a link we have to work with a resizer, have to work with a cropping tool and so on. So that one is not merged yet. But I&#8217;m hoping to get reviews of it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. It&#8217;s interesting to look behind the scenes, how complicated they can be. And when you think that something that is newer, because the group block is relatively new in comparison to other blocks, they fit into the architecture better because it&#8217;s a more formal architecture, that wasn&#8217;t the case earlier on. And so yeah. But thank you so much. And also looking at that. Sometimes it&#8217;s easy and sometimes it&#8217;s hard. And we do it because it&#8217;s hard, right?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: It&#8217;s interesting that way. It&#8217;s definitely challenging.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And talking about some quality of life around blocks, not quality of life, but a QA around blocks. There was also an effort from quite a few developers amongst them, Maggie Cabrera, to add example snippets, two blocks, especially the query block, the post list, the excerpt block, log in log out block. So when you hover over them in the inserter that you see on the right-hand side, what kind of block is that? Some of the core blocks don&#8217;t have that and this was an oversight that has now been rectified.\n\n\n\nAnd so this is just going to make it a little bit more smoother and make it a little bit more consistent. The next one is&#8230; I wanted to put out is from the inserter, that the PR says, remove the dialogue behavior and that is the behavior, that when you click on things something opens up. And when you&#8217;re done, click in there. And you&#8217;re done with it, it closes automatically.\n\n\n\nAnd the inserter and sometimes it&#8217;s a little bit of a harder&#8230; Was harder to use, because you had to click every time you wanted to add a block and open it up again. And now with that changed behavior you can now have it open and add multiple blocks at the same time to canvas. So this is definitely a quality of life for streamlining the workflow for creating content.\n\n\n\nThe next one is what you already mentioned, block background UI controls and have the controls move to a popover, so there&#8217;s background images. The blocks have gotten quite a few refinements in 18.8. Do you want to talk about that?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: It&#8217;s a bit changed in the UI.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. It&#8217;s definitely also streamlined and consistent through the&#8230; Global Styles, you can add background to blocks through the Global Styles as well as through the blocks, properties or settings. So they also streamlined those processes. The next one I found interesting was&#8230; That&#8217;s about the group block and they had a name, they renamed the fill feature to grow and that indicated&#8230; Can you explain what that indicates?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I read the pull request, so it&#8217;s partially to make the name a better match with the CSS functionalities behind the scenes. But it&#8217;s also about not mixing the fill in this context with the background color fill or the background image. So that&#8217;s the reason why they changed this.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, yeah. So it&#8217;s easier for people to translate and not have overlap ideas about things. But it also, I think the fill only has the connotation that it&#8217;s a fixed width, to be filled. And with grow it also indicates that it grows with the blocks that come in. So when you put a bigger one in there and that grow part, that&#8217;s what those CSS is actually for. The property is called grow as well. Yeah, flex-grow. It&#8217;s for the flex CSS there. Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: All right. Yeah. And then of course that&#8217;s a great thing, is we get color support for the list item. Now we can have stripes in our list. In each list item could have a different color and that is really cool. Talking about designs, can you also grade gradients around it?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I haven&#8217;t tried it. I would definitely look. I&#8217;m looking forward to hopefully seeing some kind of border support. Because I would like to sometimes have my list items like underlined. That&#8217;s one thing.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So the underlying feature is not available for lists in the inline?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Well, I don&#8217;t necessarily want to underline text, as in it being your name.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, you want the same. Yeah, you want the same link of it? Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Like the whole list item. Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. So I haven&#8217;t tried it yet, but I&#8217;m going to try out the list block color support with some funky designs maybe over the weekend. It&#8217;s really cool. Then the next one is, that&#8217;s a small change, but it definitely clears up a lot of questions that came in through user support or that the justification formatting is also coming to the block toolbar in addition to that is in the sidebar because most people didn&#8217;t find it in the sidebar when they were looking for it and thought it wasn&#8217;t possible to justify a certain block or a certain series of blocks. So now it&#8217;s also available in the toolbar. That&#8217;s restricted to a few blocks I would think.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes. It&#8217;s largely inconsistent what&#8217;s in the toolbar and what&#8217;s in the sidebar for different blocks.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that&#8217;s true.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: True. Let&#8217;s say if the pull request probably mentions if it&#8217;s&#8230;\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It&#8217;s definitely available for the flex box in the group log.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I only see the post content that the group mentioned, but I don&#8217;t think that&#8230; I think that was just an example.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it&#8217;s for the group block. I don&#8217;t know if that&#8217;s going to come to columns as well. Yeah, we need to test this. Dear listeners, we haven&#8217;t tested this little thing yet, sorry. But if you test it, send in what you think of it and how you use it.\n\n\n\nBut I like that these things are going to be consistently updated anyway and somebody notices it and says, okay, I&#8217;m going to fix it.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAnd then the next item is a change in the block API. That&#8217;s more for developers. It&#8217;s very technical, but it allows a custom block developer to add a file name to the variations fields of the custom block that they&#8217;re building. So you can create a block and then you also assign variations to it. And then if you don&#8217;t want it all in the same file, you can add a file name to the variations field and then it pulls it from there. Very nifty.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah. And especially now if we&#8217;re saying that the number of variations that the block has&#8230; Like the grid block, that it keeps growing. It&#8217;s definitely absolutely useful for block developers because the grid block now has four.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, just kind of thinking, but that was style variations one, not block variations. So we have a proliferation of the word variations and styles and blocks and you can mix it anywhere we want.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yeah, block style variation, block variations. It&#8217;s very similar. Also in the interface, they&#8217;re also very closely positioned in the interface. As long as you have opened the styles panel, you can have the variation just below the block name or then the description and then you have the style variation inside the panel. Also at the very top.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. They all look the same. So if you&#8217;re a visual person, like I am. I always know where something stood in a book, I knew the page number and then where on the book. I could find it very easily. But if it&#8217;s just all the same, yeah, it&#8217;s kind of I need to&#8230; Maybe, can we have a background if something is color coded. Or can we have a shape or something like that?\n\n\n\nBut it&#8217;s just a name.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: So this is not part of Gutenberg, now I&#8217;m skipping again. So of course immediately after a major list, contributors are monitoring the support forms, and of course the Gutenberg tickets and the track tickets. One of the tickets that stood out a little bit, and I&#8217;m not going to talk about the underlying, is actually the page and post, the summary, or what used to be a summary panel. And this user was supporting that. They weren&#8217;t able to find the comment settings.\n\n\n\nBecause when you look at the top of the panel now it&#8217;s links, so they&#8217;re not in separate panel anymore. And this person who just saw this for the first time probably, it wasn&#8217;t easy for them to find it. And that&#8217;s one of the changes in 6.6 that we actually haven&#8217;t discussed. Not in this call at least. People will get used to it. I don&#8217;t know if anything&#8217;s going to be moved back. I don&#8217;t think so.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, there was between&#8230; I&#8217;m not sure if it was from one version to the next, but I know that there was a discussion about where should the revisions panels be? Should it be under the three point options kind of thing, or where should the sticky post thing be? And of course when you know, okay, that worked, that&#8217;s there now. And I can remember that.\n\n\n\nBut for the first time, the shock, oh, did it go? Yeah, where did it go? You just want to get your work done and all of a sudden these hurdles come in with a new version.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: And the featured image also moved to the very top. It&#8217;s a little bit different.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I like that actually, because I&#8217;m always going to fear that I forget the featured image. A lot of designs are actually very visual and you have that in your post loop in the list of the block posts and there&#8217;s a featured image and you want to make sure that that&#8217;s in there. But yeah, it&#8217;s a change.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: That&#8217;s a good point. A good reminder to have it there.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: But what I also like with the new workflow setting is that the number of words is right there. How many are in the post. That you only had to do three clicks to actually get to that? So in the outline tab of the list view, so you had to open up the list view, click to the outline, and then see how many words are in the post. Now you just go to the&#8230;\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: So I hope that you&#8217;re all keeping your blog post at least 3000 words now, right? For SEO purposes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And 15 blog posts make a book, right? 3000 words. Does that come from a search engine kind of quality content, needs to be 3000 words?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: It&#8217;s a lot.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, that&#8217;s a lot.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Only your most important content.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Well, our writers on the developer blog, they&#8217;re always kind of bumping up on that number quite a bit. But that&#8217;s because we have some great code examples and explanations there and it&#8217;s always about our real world kind of example. And it takes that long to explain.\n\n\n\nAll right, what else do we have in 18.8? We have a lot of changes in the component sections, but that&#8217;s so highly technical, about the custom select control version two. There&#8217;s a version two, dear developers. Those will be probably&#8230; If they come to a WordPress version they will be in a dev note, complete together, so you get them.\n\n\n\nBecause they&#8217;re all smaller fixes that are in a bigger context. But now with the PRs it&#8217;s harder to describe what&#8217;s the bigger picture about it. So I would wait until they get into the WordPress major version where you try them out. For the block library, we have two things that we wanted to talk about. One is the aspect ratio control for image blocks in grids. That was something that was missing.\n\n\n\nAlso in the hallway hangout, you saw it, that Isabel tried to get the picture into the grid and then it wouldn&#8217;t fill up the whole thing. And so now you can control the aspect ratio of those image blocks. It&#8217;s really cool. And then the other one is when I see reduced specificity, I first have a hard time pronouncing that word.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Same. I also have difficulty even trying to spell it if I take it out. Yeah, reduce specificity of the social link icon color. I believe this is a bug fix. I guess the colors were either impacting something else or were impacted by it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And it wasn&#8217;t possible to control them. So now themes can control it. But yeah, CSS specificity was definitely a topic on the WordPress release in 6.6. And there were a few rumblings around, because for some features, theme developers fixed something that core didn&#8217;t do or needed to override. And now with 6.6, core fixed what they were doing, but then it affected what theme developers were doing.\n\n\n\nSo they had to reduce certain things or revert some of the changes. But it also maybe was a little bit pushed too far with the underlined issue, the link underlined issue. And overall it was ripping off the bandaid to make section style possible, to reduce the specificity on certain CSS and have&#8230; It only affected a few theme developers that were very heavy on CSS, on style CSS still. So how did you find that change in 6.6 with your themes or you? Or in the discussion with the theme developers?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: So I spent so many hours testing these changes early on, but not through the latest release candidates. So I obviously missed many, many things. I couldn&#8217;t keep up.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Nobody&#8217;s going to fault you.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: With some of the changes. I have not had time to test my websites with 6.6 or my themes. I&#8217;m just going to wait a little and not just automated upgrade. I haven&#8217;t had time.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That&#8217;s of course a good way to say, let other people find the faults. And I know that the core team is starting to work on a point release to come out somehow next week for 6.6.1 and you probably want to wait for that to update all the sites. So the release candidate is coming out I think tomorrow or today?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: I think it&#8217;s today.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It&#8217;s today. We are recording this on July 18th. So sorry.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: That&#8217;s correct.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Just wanted to say what today is because it&#8217;s different for our listeners than it is for us.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: So today on Thursday the 18th, there are 10 fixes in this release.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Okay. All right. And in two weeks we&#8217;re going to talk about it. So synced patterns got some updates as well. The one PR ensures to disable override buttons is active for image blocks with captions or links. Because you could override the image URL and the alt text, but you couldn&#8217;t change the captions or the link that the image went to. And that is now changed.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: The part of the bug was that if you already had the original image, had a caption, and the caption setting was only visible and you replaced the image, the caption did not update and you were not able to edit it. This sort of solves that in one way, but more work is needed.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And that actually went into 6.6. And then the other bug fix for pattern overrides was to fix the aspect ratio with the image overrides. So it wouldn&#8217;t adhere to the aspect. When you uploaded a new image, it wouldn&#8217;t necessarily adhere to the aspect ratio that was in the original before. So that is fixed too, and made it into 6.6. Yeah, was backboard to core, yes. All right. And then we had this disabled post, meta editing and blocks, that&#8217;s one of the inside query loops to finish my sentence.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes. So this has to do with the synced patterns, the rights and the block bindings and it prevents bugs. Again, like with the query loop is&#8230; Again, it&#8217;s the loops. So everything you add to the inside, it&#8217;s going to be repeated and that&#8217;s why it should not be editable that way.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, there was a feature there that if you needed to change post-meta for a certain block, you could do it in the query block, but that is now stopped. It&#8217;s disabled now. So there&#8217;s no confusion in overriding some. I think there were race conditions on the database for that. So that&#8217;s a good thing that it&#8217;s not on the query loop. If you want to change the metadata for a post, go to the post, do it there.\n\n\n\nThen there&#8217;s one fix there that&#8217;s just for those who use the image block for plugins. And that is that the media ID and the block HML are supported for the block bindings. But that&#8217;s just&#8230; It&#8217;s really a technical update and a bug fix for 6.6. But it had quite a few discussions there and how that&#8217;s going to be fixed. But it is fixed now.\n\n\n\nAnd then there are quite a few experiments and we talked about that, that grid layouts or interactive grids is one experiment in the Gutenberg plugin. And there are two features, allow inserting blocks directly into the empty grid cells, wire drag and drop, and then also use the manual placement attribute to set manual grid mode and allow responsive behavior in both modes.\n\n\n\nSo in the grid layouts in 6.6, when you switch on the manual feature in the sidebar, it takes away&#8230; And you say, okay, I wanted three columns width in manual, then even your mobile version has three columns because that&#8217;s what you said in a manual grid. And now with them they allow&#8230; this is an experiment to allow certain manual grid attributes and make sure that it&#8217;s still a responsive behavior. So it&#8217;s kind of&#8230; Not quite sure if that is the right UI or the right approach.\n\n\n\nSo go there and experiment with it to see if that satisfies. Because of course it&#8217;s surprising that if you put some manual in there, I want four columns and all of a sudden you see it in mobile and it is not responsive, that that disconnect is really hard to decipher.\n\n\n\nAnd Nick Diego, who was the author of the 15 Ways to Curate The Editor Experience, found a gap in the documentation and he added how the rich text formatting or switching off rich text formatting features is done for the editor curation documentation. So that&#8217;s good. And then another documentation enhancement is that the interactivity API documentation now includes a few more examples and the reference for more examples in there. So if you are trying to get your head around the interactivity, API that might be even better.\n\n\n\nJust an announcement is CSS hacks, Internet Explorer 11 have been removed from the block editor from the Gutenberg plugin. And I don&#8217;t know how many, I think when we removed the Internet Explorer 11 support in general in WordPress, there was quite a big number of code line changes or removals. I don&#8217;t think this would amount to it. It&#8217;s probably most of the time an if than else hack. But it&#8217;s removed and it&#8217;s a clearer way to look at the CSS. All right, anything else you want to comment on for that?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Fixing documentation is always awesome.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And sometimes there&#8217;s quite a few things that need to be fixed. Yeah.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Oh, yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: All right, so this concludes, dear listeners, our review of the Gutenberg Changelog for the Gutenberg 18.8 release.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>\n\n\n\nSo we are on the section now, what&#8217;s an active development and discussed. And I want to point out three things to you.\n\n\n\nOne is a very smaller one and that is adding color and other style options to the audio block. That is a PR or an issue right now that&#8217;s discussed on how to manage that and what is the minimum viable product on that. Do we need a featured image? Do we not use a featured image on that? But chime in on that so the developer who will take that on has your input if you to it. Of course that&#8217;s a different story, but it&#8217;s definitely good to form opinions and to make them available.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: And over time already, I guess I get a little bit excited talking about WordPress. So the audio element which is used in a block is almost impossible to style without either basically completely covering it with another element using CSS or with JavaScript. And it&#8217;s impossible to do it with just CSS. To add color options for everything around the actual audio element. Yeah, that&#8217;s an interesting approach to it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. It&#8217;s definitely something. And it&#8217;s also a&#8230; There&#8217;s another element out there like the video elements or some of the embeds that also could use some additional style options. And I think working on the audio block gives everybody a feel how that can be approached and what would be needed there. So it&#8217;s also the iteration process.\n\n\n\nI also wanted to share with the audience a link to an experiment on free form image cropping. The image cropper is quite difficult to get your head around. And the block editor as well as in the classic editor, there is no&#8230; Both are abysmally&#8230; So there is a PR that a developer is working on. And definitely it&#8217;s still in draft so it hasn&#8217;t been even merged or full review, but it&#8217;s definitely something you want to look at and maybe you can try it out.\n\n\n\nAnd then the biggest link that I wanted to share with you dear listener, is the updates for the media library. So the next step for the admin redesign is of course the posts, but that&#8217;s a small thing because the most things for the post everybody knows already. But the biggest one is how to rethink the media library with a new data admin. And Ramon Dodd started the process with a tracking issue and there is quite some discussion there. What else would be needed to change things or to bring over how it&#8217;s working now.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s quite a discussion there that&#8217;s first interesting to see what everybody else is thinking, but also to chime in and figure out what is the first version going to look like when it comes to that media library in the new data admins.\n\n\n\nAnd with that, we are at the end of the show. Thank you so much Carolina, for being on the show and letting us all know about block themes and what&#8217;s in 6.6 and what&#8217;s coming and talking about the Gutenberg&#8217;s 18.8 plugin. Is there anything that you want to announce from Yoast or for what you are working on that you didn&#8217;t get to talk about? You get about two minutes or three now.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: No, it&#8217;s okay. I work on Gutenberg when I find issues that are easy enough for me to work on. But that usually means that this looks easy and then four hours later you&#8217;re completely down a rabbit hole. I&#8217;m still trying to help out with the bundle teams triage, the bundle team task force and continue to find the problems, reporting new issues, and then we solve it together. So it&#8217;s working, mixing.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Thank you so much for the great work on all of it, on what&#8217;s in WordPress and listeners, as always, the show notes will be published on Gutenbergtimes.com/podcast. This is number 104. And if you have questions and suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. That&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>.\n\n\n\nAnd if people want to connect with Carolina Nymark, it could be definitely on WP Slack. Your name is Poena, right?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And on Twitter, it&#8217;s Carolina Poena.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: If you want to follow her on what she shares on the social media. And thank you so much for being here, Carolina, it&#8217;s always a great pleasure to have you.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Thank you for inviting me.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes. And I will do so again in a few months. So I hope to see you soon. I don&#8217;t know on any of the WordCamps, I don&#8217;t know, you&#8217;re going to go to Rome to the Core days? Or what&#8217;s your next WordCamp?\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Undecided.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Undecided. Yes.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Maybe Rome or maybe not until the next WordCamp.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I&#8217;m undecided too, so I&#8217;m kind of&#8230; We&#8217;ll see. Yeah. And if not, we see each other on the interwebs.\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark: Oh, yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And take care. Bye-Bye.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 21 Jul 2024 09:44:13 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:29;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Matt: Jim Simons RIP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=114897\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2024/07/jim-simons-rip/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4304:\"As I wrote the other day, <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/06/cowen-life-lessons/\">don’t constrain your mentors by their availability</a>. Today, I’d like to highlight someone I consider a mentor, who I’ve never met, and now that he’s passed away, I never will, Jim Simons. \n\n\n\nI’m mildly obsessed with the culture and results of <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies\">Renaissance Technologies</a>, <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Street_Capital\">Jane Street</a>, <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jump_Trading\">Jump Trading</a>, and <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Sigma\">Two Sigma</a> because I’d like to create the tech and infrastructure version of that at <a href=\"https://automattic.com/\">Automattic</a>. Jim Simons reminds me of my Dad, who also never quit smoking and was super-smart. Finally, I love finding obscure YouTube videos with few views but full of great stuff.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n	<img class=\"lyt-bg\" src=\"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/SVdTF4_QrTM/hqdefault.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n <a href=\"https://youtube.com/watch?v=SVdTF4_QrTM\" class=\"lty-playbtn\" title=\"Play Video\">\n \n </a>\n\n</div>\n\n\n\nIn December, 2010, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVdTF4_QrTM\">Jim Simons gave a lecture at MIT called Mathmetics, Common Sense, and Good Luck: My Life and Careers</a>. The entire thing, including the introductions, is worth watching, but I’ll call out&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Do something new. (This ties well with <a href=\"https://kottke.org/24/03/dont-be-the-best-be-the-only\">Kevin Kelly’s &#8220;Don’t be the best. Be the only&#8221;</a>.)</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Collaborate with the best people you possibly can.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Be guided by beauty.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Don’t give up.&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Hope for some good luck.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\nI want to pull out point three, and transcribe directly what he said because it’s quite profound:\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\nPretty much everything I’ve done has had an aesthetic component, at least to me. Now you might think, well, building a company that’s trading bonds, what’s so aesthetic about that? But it is. What’s aesthetic about it is doing it right. Doing it right. Getting the right kind of people and approaching the problem and doing it right and if you feel like you feel like you’re the first one to do it right and I think we were, that’s a terrific feeling and it’s a beautiful thing to do something right. It’s also a beautiful thing to solve a math problem create some mathematics that people hadn’t thought of before, so “Be guided by beauty” is not such a bad principle.\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\nIf there’s something I’d add, it’s that there is an art to imitation, copying the masters to further your own work. In jazz, we’d transcribe solos from great musicians, note for note, and try to recreate them perfectly, not because that was what we were going to do when we got on stage, but because that understanding and foundation gave us the mastery to take that work and build on top of it. I think this is also true in open source, which often starts by recreating something that exists in the proprietary world but then goes far beyond.\n\n\n\nWhile Renaissance has its Medallion Fund, Automattic has its A12 stock program, which only employees can access. Both programs share the same idea, and if we’re lucky, A12 will create a ton of wealth over time—I love that a third of RenTech&#8217;s employees are registered as having assets of over 5M.\n\n\n\nHe also lists these points as creating alignment for a great organization:\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Great people.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Great infrastructure.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Open environment.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Try to get everyone compensated based on the overall performance.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\nThat last point is the hardest. <a href=\"https://www.danpink.com/books/drive/\">Dan Pink&#8217;s book Drive</a> has a great overview of how it&#8217;s very difficult to align extrinsic incentive models. This post is a birthday <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/01/birthday-gift/\">gift</a> to <a href=\"https://tim.blog/\">Tim</a>.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 20 Jul 2024 23:55:20 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:30;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:135:\"Gutenberg Times: WordPress 6.6 and 6.6.1, drop shadow for Group block, alternatives to custom blocks and more — Weekend Edition 300\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29356\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:71:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18029:\"Hi there, \n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\"><div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"913\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/GutenbergTimes-Wappuu-2024-edited-731x1024.png?resize=652%2C913&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29416\" /></div></div>\n\n\nThe wonderful designer, <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/ACoAAABe3aMBPiET2CcJowGP3RVNLLZ4BuT2Rfk\">Eleonora Anzini</a>, gifted the Gutenberg Times with a Wapuu, the unofficial mascot of WordPress. Anzini has been a strong supporter for <a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/organisers/#design-team\">WordCamp Europe 2024</a> as well as the upcoming Core Days 2024 in Rome, Italy. You can find out <a href=\"https://www.eleonoraanzini.com/\">more about Anzini at her website</a>. Isn&#8217;t the Wapuu cute with its headphones? Big Thank you to Eleonora Anzini. \n\n\n\nWhat do you think? If you like it and email me your mailing address, I&#8217;ll find a way to get you a Gutenberg Times Podcast Wapuu sticker. \n\n\n\nHave a great weekend! \n\n\n\nYours, 💕 Birgit\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\nTable of Contents\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/#gutenberg-18-8\">Gutenberg 18.8</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/#what-others-write-and-say-about-wordpress-6-6\">What others write and say about WordPress 6.6 </a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wordpress-6-6-and-6-6-1-weekend-edition-300/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\nWithin a few days of the WordPress 6.6, the team of core contributors, started working on 6.6.1 release to fix fast some bugs around CSS specificity. The release post for the RC1 has all the info. The release is led by Tonya Mork and Ella van Durpe. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/18/wordpress-6-6-1-rc1-is-now-available/\">WordPress&nbsp;6.6.1&nbsp;RC1 is now available</a>. It fixes a few CSS specificity bugs, that plagued Divi Sites, and other Theme builders. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nYou can check out WordPress 6.6 without downloaded the version via the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 release landing page.</a> \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 was actually the 50th major WordPress release. Matt Mullenweg <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/07/6-6/\">wrote on his blog</a>: &#8220;50 releases… wow. No matter what happens in the world, we’re just going to keep cranking. Three times a year. Relentlessly. A little better each time. Don’t believe me, just watch.&#8221; \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\"><img src=\"blob:https://gutenbergtimes.com/7d13ecca-ec3e-4f95-aea2-dc42bad9021c\" alt=\"\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"gutenberg-18-8\">Gutenberg 18.8</h2>\n\n\n\n211 PRs merged, 57 Enhancements, 77 Bug Fixes, 35 of them were backported to Core, and made it into WordPress 6.6 and included in the RC 3.&nbsp;60 contributors worked on this release, 10 of them were first time contributors. Congratulations to all! \n\n\n\nRelease lead, Andrew Serong, highlighted in his release post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.8 (17 July)</a>: \n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/#group-block-shadow-support\">Group block shadow support</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/#background-image-support-for-blocks-in-global-styles\">Background image support for blocks in global styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/#toolbar-justification-controls-for-group-and-content-blocks\">Toolbar justification controls for Group and Content blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/#color-support-for-individual-list-item-blocks\">Color support for individual list item blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/#block-inserter-no-longer-behaves-like-a-dialog-box\">Block inserter no longer behaves like a dialog box</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/17/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-8-17-july/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"376\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/gb-18-8-group-shadow.png?resize=652%2C376&ssl=1\" alt=\"Sreenshot of the new drop shadow tools in WordPress 6.6\" class=\"wp-image-29407\" /></a>\n\n\n\nCarolina Nymark and I chatted quite a bit about other updates in the Gutenberg 18.8 version. Also, what we find exciting about WordPress 6.6 and what&#8217;s in the works for WordPress 6.7 in November. The episode will arrive at your favorite podcast app over the weekend. \n\n\n\n<img width=\"652\" height=\"186\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Screenshot-2024-07-19-at-12.07.05.png?resize=652%2C186&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29410\" />\n\n\n\n🎙️ Latest episode: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/\">Gutenberg Changelog #104 – Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6</a> with special guest Carolina Nymark\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn his 60th <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/07/15/design-share-60-jul-1-jul-12/\">Design Share #60 (Jul 1 – Jul 12)</a>, Joen Asmussen, summarized about the work of the WordPress Design team. \n\n\n\nIt mostly was around the Data Views to adjust display to changing and expanding needs. \n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Improving&nbsp;Filter&nbsp;UX</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Consolidate bulk actions </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Drag to resize for display panels</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWith many layers of design being modified in themes, global styles, block styles and plugins, there is a need to make sure users can identify where versions styling comes from. The work on visualizing style inheritance is ongoing. \n\n\n\nThe design team also work on handling the increasing complexities around the Placeholder component used in blocks and block variations. Speaking of core blocks: a collaboration to advance the Audio block has been sketched out, to give content creator more design options for the various parts. It&#8217;s ready for a developer to implement the designs. Lastly, the design team also work on the WordPress logo page in context of the redesign of wordpress.org. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/design/2024/07/15/design-share-60-jul-1-jul-12/\"><img src=\"blob:https://gutenbergtimes.com/02067ca2-c13d-4246-bf20-aaf5403b6062\" alt=\"\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"what-others-write-and-say-about-wordpress-6-6\">What others write and say about WordPress 6.6 </h2>\n\n\n\nPascal Claro at WP Roads covers the WordPress 6.6 release in his video: <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CPBr8CWyAU\">WordPress 6.6 New Features</a> and offers great demos of Grid layouts, synch patterns, DataViews and the 10 other features. If you are a visual learner, you&#8217;d appreciate the detailed and fast-paced screen shares . They give you a meaninful insights in the how and why you would use any of the features. I am a fan of the little grid layout section creating a bento-box layout. \n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn this video, <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU4ikiAzZ-Y\">WordPress 6.6 negative margins</a>, Elliot Richmond shows you how to create stunning, responsive layouts using the Group Block, Columns, and Cover Block to add depth and visual interest in adjusting margins. &#8220;The designer in you will love this subtle but powerful addition to WordPress 6.6&#8221;\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nCourtney Robertson, training team member and sponsored contributor by GoDaddy published <a href=\"https://www.godaddy.com/resources/news/whats-new-in-wordpress-6-6-key-features-and-updates\">What’s new in WordPress 6.6: Key features and updates</a>. Robertson divided up the information into sections for End users, Theme developer, plugin developers and Site admins and enterprise users. So you as a reader can drill down directly to the passage most relevant to you. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nKeith Devon and Mark Wilkinson talk through the <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIB3VyMIW9U\">WordPress 6.6 release</a> in their podcast episode 95.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nMy friend, Varun Dubey, Contributor to Buddy Press, gives you a detailed look at <a href=\"https://vapvarun.com/whats-coming-in-wordpress-6-6-a-detailed-look/\">What’s Coming in WordPress 6.6: A Detailed Look</a>. &#8220;Whether you are a developer, site administrator, or regular user, these updates will make managing and customizing your WordPress site more accessible and efficient.&#8221; he wrote. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn his video, Matt Medeiros asked <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yYNJ3l51yI\">WordPress 6.6 is here! Now what?!</a> and takes a deep dive into Synced pattern overrides and Grid layouts. I learned that WordPress 6.6 is also the first WordPress release with credits for three dudes named Matt.\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\nIf you rather read and quick updates, <a href=\"https://yoast.com/about-us/team/camille-cunningham/\">Camille Cunningham</a> at Yoast published <a href=\"https://yoast.com/wordpress-6-6/\">WordPress 6.6: The 6 highlights in this release!</a> and gives you a nice overview of those highlights. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\nFränk Klein ruminated in his latest blog post the question: <a href=\"https://wpdevelopment.courses/articles/do-block-themes-still-need-style-css/\">Do block themes still need style.css?</a> While the existence of the style.css is still needed with the metadata of a theme for WordPress, it can be empty for block themes. As Klein wrote: &#8220;<code>style.css</code>, on the other hand, represents the&nbsp;best practices of the days past. Let’s look at these and why they are no longer adequate&#8221; Details in <a href=\"https://wpdevelopment.courses/articles/do-block-themes-still-need-style-css/\">his post</a>.\n\n\n\n&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp; A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\nAlex Lende published <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/19/json-schema-in-wordpress/\">JSON Schema in WordPress</a> &#8211; a tutorial on what JSON is how you can set up your development environment to take advantage of the standard and how you use the various JSON properties in modern WordPress development. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nSave the date for July 23 at 15:00 UTC <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\">Developer Hours: Do you really need a custom block? Let’s explore alternatives</a>. Explore with JuanMa Garrido and Nick Diego, alternatives to building custom block, and still be able to extend core blocks and curate the editing experience for your content creators. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\"><img width=\"600\" height=\"338\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/600_521958647-1.webp?resize=600%2C338&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29430\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a> Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. \n\n\n\nNow also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience\n\n\n\n<img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" />\n\n\n\nQuestions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\nFor questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nFeatured Image: Geometric wooden block sculpture by Johnious Tumusiime, found at WordPress.org/photos. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nDon&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? \n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"> Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button>We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 20 Jul 2024 04:29:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:31;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"Matt: WordCamp Europe\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=116386\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"https://ma.tt/2024/06/wordcamp-europe/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:944:\"In Torino / Turin this year I decided to give a slightly different talk than normal, <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2024/05/wp21/\">building on my post I did for WordPress turning 21</a>.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n	<img class=\"lyt-bg\" src=\"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ELW4Jdvujbc/hqdefault.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n <a href=\"https://youtube.com/watch?v=ELW4Jdvujbc\" class=\"lty-playbtn\" title=\"Play Video\">\n \n </a>\n\n</div>\n\n\n\nAnd here&#8217;s the Q&amp;A, where I got challenged and accepted to do a speed build. <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f642.png\" alt=\"🙂\" class=\"wp-smiley\" />\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n	<img class=\"lyt-bg\" src=\"https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RxQ5yhsxig4/hqdefault.jpg\" alt=\"\" />\n <a href=\"https://youtube.com/watch?v=RxQ5yhsxig4\" class=\"lty-playbtn\" title=\"Play Video\">\n \n </a>\n\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 19 Jul 2024 12:30:02 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:32;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"Do The Woo Community: Headless WooCommerce and WordPress with Darko Svetolikovic\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84689\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"https://dothewoo.io/headless-woocommerce-and-wordpress-with-darko-svetolikovic/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26206:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-46 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-45 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-10 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-44 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-19 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-43 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"600\" height=\"600\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/GoDaddy-square.png?resize=600%2C600&ssl=1\" alt=\"GoDaddy\" class=\"wp-image-75131\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n <a href=\"https://godaddy.com\">GoDaddy</a>: Build your clients sites using the flexibility of a Managed WooCommerce Store from GoDaddy. If you clients are looking to expand their store, you can deliver them a fully-customized WooCommerce site.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nRobert: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another Do the Woo AgencyChat. It is my great pleasure to have Darko here from IntellRocket. Darko, welcome to the show.\n\n\n\nDarko: Hi Robert. Thank you for having me.\n\n\n\nRobert: Darko, tell us more about IntellRocket and yourself please.\n\n\n\nDarko: Yeah, thank you. So I am Darko Svetolikovic, which is hard to pronounce even in Serbian. I come from Serbia and I&#8217;m the founder of IntellRocket, which is a WordPress agency specializing in WordPress and WooCommerce development for more than a decade. Currently, we&#8217;re certified web experts and have extensive experience in building custom WordPress websites and WooCommerce stores. I can say that we&#8217;re trying to build beautiful websites, but that&#8217;s not something you can be objective about. What&#8217;s nice and what&#8217;s beautiful is subjective. However, where you can be objective is that we build websites that are really fast. So, high-performance website projects where we guarantee that our custom builds will pass core web vitals. Why is that important? Because Core Web Vitals is a ranking signal. It means that your website is fast and produces a good user experience. Clients come to us asking for some crazy implementations, so we do that, create implementations from the technical side, and usually, those kinds of projects come with custom API integration.\n\n\n\nRobert: Don&#8217;t spoil it yet, don&#8217;t spoil it yet because we&#8217;re going to get to it. Before we jump into the next sort of little bit here, I have to say there is a huge Serbian WordPress community and it&#8217;s very impressive.\n\n\n\nDarko: Well, I see some people only at WordCamps. We live in the same city, but if there&#8217;s no WordPress meetup or something like that, we don&#8217;t see each other. And then I see them only at WordCamps, WordCamp Europe, or WordCamps across Europe. So yeah, there is a huge, huge community here. We hosted WordCamp 2018. I think it was WordCamp Europe in Belgrade, 2018 or 2019, I&#8217;m not sure.\n\n\n\nRobert: Yeah, so that&#8217;s very impressive.\n\n\n\nDarko: We have a huge community here, and I suppose that is something that is driving WordPress. So it&#8217;s not only the Serbian community; it&#8217;s communities across the globe.\n\n\n\nRobert: I completely agree. It was actually really nice to see the Serbian community specifically having their little side meetups and things going on at WordCamps Europe. Nice group of folks. To get back to all the agency-important information, of course. You&#8217;ve mentioned performance as a key metric, not only for Core Web Vitals but for other, I guess, experience-related issues or experiences, period. What has IntellRocket done differently than other agencies around that performance question?\n\n\n\nDarko: Well, it&#8217;s not that we&#8217;re doing something different. We&#8217;re focused on building websites that are fast and performant. We really dive deep into how WordPress operates, how everything functions, how everything works. So we try to optimize and make it better. And because of that, I can say those are performance-related things. I think I&#8217;m passionate about performance since I started my business and my agency work. I&#8217;m not a developer, so I don&#8217;t have that experience related to technical things, but I can say I have some good people on my team who are willing to do what I ask them to do.\n\n\n\nRobert: So I want to dig into why that&#8217;s important for you, but also why it&#8217;s important for agencies as a whole to be looking at performance as a metric and specifically beyond hosting. Because every host is going to say they&#8217;re the fastest, the best. We know the story. So why should agencies specifically be looking to target performance? How can they do that better?\n\n\n\nDarko: So about performance, of course, hosting is important, but if you have a well-coded website, then the hosting will be important but not that much. If you have a huge website that&#8217;s not optimized well, you&#8217;ll spend a fortune on hosting for that website to have good performance. So I would say everything is important: good code, good structure, good hosting. I&#8217;m passionate about performance. So because of that, I started working on performance. But 10 years ago, technologies were different. That&#8217;s when that passion started. And then we started working on improving websites. So why should agencies care, or why should businesses care? Because that helps user experience. A fast website helps with conversion rates. Then that helps with revenue, that helps with profit margins. So I have a case where we worked on a client who was paying for Google Ads but didn&#8217;t have an optimized website. So we started optimizing that website, and they were investing in PPC at that moment. Their website was, for example, let&#8217;s say third in Google, first, second, third ad is like the third place. And then when we optimized the website for the same budget, this client had, let&#8217;s say, a second position, and the cost per click reduced, for example, just for this case from $1 to 0.8. So they had 20% more traffic for the same budget. So that improved their Google Ads score. They got like 20% more clicks for the same money, but then that traffic landed on their website. And because the website was faster, they had a 20% better conversion rate. So 20% more traffic multiplied by 20% better conversion rate. They ended up increasing their profit by about 35%. That is why it&#8217;s important. It&#8217;s affecting your revenue in a short period. So it&#8217;s easy to test. With SEO, it&#8217;s harder because it takes more time to see what&#8217;s affecting your website. I would say agencies that are doing SEO or marketing should care about performance. Even though I know what is happening in real life because it&#8217;s not possible for most companies to achieve that. Of course, other work is important, but if you isolate all of this, I would say it can make a significant difference.\n\n\n\nRobert: That&#8217;s a really interesting and good point about Google AdWords being affected by performance. When you tackle performance issues, are you tackling them at the front end, the backend? Where is that really making the biggest difference?\n\n\n\nDarko: We&#8217;re trying everything. So, of course, we analyze the backend use. I don&#8217;t know how the tools are called, but we analyze every query monitor, I think. So we analyze everything in the backend and how everything is working, but also we use code that is optimized. So even without caching, without anything, we tend to make fast websites. And then on top of that, we add caching, JavaScript, minification, all those things. But we make websites that are fast without any caching. We add caching in order to reduce resource spending and all of that. We try to make it fast from scratch. We try everything that we see from the backend, we will resolve it. Everything that puts me on the front end, we will try to resolve. Some things are possible, some things are hard, some things are not possible because you have some scripts you cannot handle. External scripts like Google Analytics and those kinds of things. And then those sometimes appear in the report. But we have also websites where we were adding 200 different Google events and those websites passed Core Web Vitals. So it&#8217;s not about Google Analytics slowing down the website.\n\n\n\nRobert: And you mentioned building, I&#8217;ll say it, custom front ends, and obviously you do a lot of work with WooCommerce. So I have to say it&#8217;s something unique I haven&#8217;t seen in any of our regular Do the Woo AgencyChats. Let&#8217;s dive into what you&#8217;re calling headless WooCommerce.\n\n\n\nDarko: So as I said, the passion about SEO, the passion about performance, and also API in the backend, all that was a solid foundation for starting something that is called headless WordPress or headless WooCommerce. How it explains headless, but in essence, that is JAMstack or headless, WordPress, headless website, headless WooCommerce, JAMstack e-commerce. Those are the terms. So it represents that you separate the front end from the backend. The backend is running on its own server. You use the API from the backend to send all the necessary information. And then the frontend is independently hosted. This simplifies the frontend and the backend because you don&#8217;t have in the traditional stacks, you visit the website, the visitor comes to your website, you ask the backend, then it asks the database, it responds with something, and you get the front end. With a headless setup, you have most of the time everything pre-rendered, so the content is ready, and you instantly get the response of the page you&#8217;re trying to get, which then reduces the time to get the information, and you get it much faster. So it just helps you build a super fast website, so you can have an instantly loading website across the globe. So it&#8217;s not about your local market. It&#8217;s possible to target a global market and have this instant website loading across the globe, which is good for international businesses. For example, startups, SaaS companies that don&#8217;t know where they will sell. As a SaaS company, you don&#8217;t know where your customers can come from. So you need to have a website that is loading fast in different markets. If you&#8217;re targeting specifically, you can have a host server in that state or country. Of course, you can have CloudFlare on top, you can have caching, you can have everything with a traditional type, which will help you, but it won&#8217;t help for the first visitor. So again, if you have different users from different markets, and for example, we&#8217;re in Serbia, but our clients are in the US, and we host a website in Serbia, then our client from, let&#8217;s say, California will get our website loading the first time slower than the second client or the second time he visits our website. He&#8217;ll get it faster, but will he visit our website a second time if the first visit was like\n\n\n\nten seconds? Probably not. And then if you&#8217;re targeting California, then the second visit is okay, but what if you have a visitor from Washington or New York? You cannot be ready for all that. And then on top of that caching, you should have some pinging servers, something like that. And you cannot be sure completely what is possible with a headless setup. It&#8217;s possible to have instant loading across the globe. I can say we recently did some tests for our client, and we had the results. So they had a custom-coded website, so their website on 4G was loading something around three seconds, which is good on average, across five continents. So the website was on average loading within three seconds, something like 2.98. But then we tested on our other client that is using headless, and they have results which are 1.4 seconds average across the same locations.\n\n\n\nRobert: So twice as fast.\n\n\n\nDarko: Yeah. So 1.4 seconds is super fast.\n\n\n\nRobert: So my question is, and I&#8217;ve had this conversation about just regular, regular and both headless WordPress, I assume budgets are a little higher and time to develop is a little higher than just spinning up a regular WooCommerce. Would that be fair to say, or have you guys optimized it?\n\n\n\nDarko: There are challenges like that. If we are talking about standard e-commerce, standard WooCommerce, I don&#8217;t think that costs too much. But usually, businesses that go to a headless setup have custom API integrations, have ERP in the backend, have CRM, and have several other marketing tools integrated into their setup currently, and they want to make a switch to headless. So they&#8217;re like big businesses. They&#8217;re not starting from scratch. Initially, you need a lot of things to be integrated and tailored to their needs, and that is why it usually costs a lot. But even with a traditional stack, that still costs a lot because you have a lot of different things that need to be connected, and that is something that affects the price. But what is positive about the headless is that if they go into a headless setup, they can save money on hosting, they can improve user experience, they can improve scalability. The flexibility is huge. You can adjust your website to do whatever you imagine it to do. So there are no limitations.\n\n\n\nRobert: And that website can be a mobile app as well.\n\n\n\nDarko: And yeah, you can use WooCommerce as a database, but usually in those setups, WooCommerce is not a database. ERP is a database, but you have WooCommerce to control the content. You can control that content, which can go to e-commerce. For example, we have a client who asked us to do something with categories in WooCommerce. They have a product page, and they want to have dynamically generated content. So they go and click some product filters, let&#8217;s say it&#8217;s a clothing e-commerce website. They go to categories, click outdoor, and then go to sneakers, and select under $100. They click all that in filters and get a dynamically generated page that says sneakers up to 100. Under that, they have &#8220;check our sneakers offering that is perfect for outdoor activities and less than $100.&#8221; That can be the product page title and subtitle. When you change from outdoor to indoor, you get a different URL with sneakers for up to 100 for indoor activities. All those URLs for Google are indexable from one setup. You can have hundreds of pages that all get indexed in Google and get you real traffic. You&#8217;re offering a great user experience to your users because they see the title, the description, it&#8217;s in the meta description. So everything is done on an advanced level, which is not possible with a traditional stack. It&#8217;s not about WordPress WooCommerce, it&#8217;s not possible on any technology. With headless, you can do this. The time you save in content population or administrating those pages is where you save a lot of money, and your return on investment is bigger, the bigger the brand you are.\n\n\n\nRobert: I guess tying it to the original question, this isn&#8217;t for everyone, it&#8217;s not going to be for a freelancer selling their own t-shirts necessarily. It&#8217;s really for, I&#8217;ll use enterprise loosely, but a business where revenue and performance really do matter. Would that be fair to say?\n\n\n\nDarko: Yeah. In the e-commerce space, it&#8217;s important for businesses that are across one country or one state that do business across one continent, I would say. They can have a bigger return on investment. Also, businesses that are entering the e-commerce space and want to compete with bigger players. Bigger players are hard to make that switch. It&#8217;s expensive, it&#8217;s time-consuming, and they don&#8217;t know if that will work. But smaller players who want a piece of the cake can get that piece much faster if they go into some technology like this. They can win some positions in Google, they can win more clicks on Google ads for the same money. I would say it&#8217;s important, but with smaller businesses, the budget can be smaller. You can build a good solution and then scale faster because it&#8217;s scalable. You can add more. The backend can be independent of the front end, so you can add more things in the front end, but also you can scale your backend while the front end is the same.\n\n\n\nRobert: One point I want to make sure we don&#8217;t miss is obviously we&#8217;ve mentioned performance, SEO, SEM, all the acronyms, security.\n\n\n\nDarko: Well, security with this setup is on another level. This is like, as I said, you have this decoupled architecture. Your front end and backend are completely separated, and because of that, you have a front end that is more secure by just, most of the time, having only read-only access. So you get the API and show the data and details. It&#8217;s not possible to write something in. The front end is on a completely different server, and you pull the data from the API from some ERP, so everything is shown on the website. Because of this architecture, it&#8217;s more secure. The backend can be hidden from users and accessed only by some security protocols. Because of that, users or malicious users cannot access your backend. This is just one layer on top. You still need to protect your WordPress and your WooCommerce, but this is one layer on top which prevents users from getting access to your backend.\n\n\n\nRobert: I&#8217;ve seen that in WordPress where you&#8217;re drafting more static pages and obviously security is greatly improved by that, by having fewer vectors of attack.\n\n\n\nDarko: Yeah, the attack surface is reduced, so it&#8217;s not impossible, but it&#8217;s harder. Nothing is impossible. If someone invests a lot of time in something, they can do it from the application side or the hosting side. So nothing can be 100% sure and secure. Working on improvements all the time is important. For example, for all our backend activities, we have by default enabled two-factor authentication for all our users. We have two-factor authentication for every password that is shared. So we take care of security internally and even on the website level. Customers need to take care of their security too. Keep passwords in their password manager, have their users use two-factor authentication, force them to use a mobile app where they have two-factor authentication set up, not just in the password manager. But in the end, it&#8217;s the responsibility of all parties involved.\n\n\n\nRobert: Without a doubt. As we all know, security is always more and more important because there&#8217;s more money, there&#8217;s more personally identifiable information, all the problems that occur, and that&#8217;ll always improve at both ends. I&#8217;m more curious, of course, I have to say the AI word. What does the future of headless WooCommerce or WooCommerce in general with AI look like?\n\n\n\nDarko: Well, I think if you use it to do some things better, if you write… sometimes I play with AI, so sometimes…\n\n\n\nRobert: Oh, we all do, right?\n\n\n\nDarko: It&#8217;s so annoying chatting with ChatGPT or anything. It&#8217;s not AI yet, they&#8217;re trying to sell us that as AI. But I think if you use it for some, there&#8217;s some good applications, and it depends on how you set up your store to improve your operations. You can use it for data entry or some operational things, freeing up people to do more complex tasks. AI currently isn&#8217;t capable of doing some super-advanced things, so we still need people. What&#8217;s the future of WooCommerce with AI? This doesn&#8217;t have too much to do with WooCommerce. Headless WooCommerce is the same. I would say that you can, for example, probably, the thing that I explained about product categories, you could generate content on those pages based on some filters. If you get personal details about users, it&#8217;s more likely for them to like that content in order to click the product they want to buy, let&#8217;s say something like that.\n\n\n\nRobert: No, that&#8217;s fantastic. I know everyone&#8217;s looking at figuring out how they can use AI. I like how you actually very much said LLMs are not AIs. That&#8217;s a really good point. I think people forget that. I&#8217;m curious how upgrades in translations will affect especially multinational WooCommerce sites. I think that&#8217;ll be interesting to see how that comes to pass, since I know that&#8217;s sort of on Matt Mullenweg&#8217;s WordPress timeline.\n\n\n\nDarko: I think if you reach some limits inside your WooCommerce, it&#8217;s important to know that there is an option to go with headless because then you don&#8217;t have those limitations. I haven&#8217;t reached those limitations with the headless websites we&#8217;ve built so far.\n\n\n\nRobert: That&#8217;s fantastic. Darko, how can folks connect with you and learn more about getting started with headless WordPress?\n\n\n\nDarko: For those interested in headless WordPress or headless WooCommerce, they can find our website at IntellRocket.com. They can find us on LinkedIn, they can find me on LinkedIn, and they can just reach out, ask what they&#8217;re curious about, and we can provide them with a consultation or anything they need.\n\n\n\nRobert: Darko, thank you so much. It was great to learn about your perspectives, especially about headless WooCommerce.\n\n\n\nDarko: Thank you, Robert. Thank you for having me on this podcast, and I hope we&#8217;ll see each other at some WordCamps.\n\n\n\nRobert: Absolutely. And that&#8217;s another Do the Woo AgencyChat. Thank you. Thank you.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn today&#8217;s Woo AgencyChat, host Robert Jacobi talks with Darko Svetolikovic, founder of IntellRocket. Listen in as they explore the importance of website performance, the benefits of a headless WooCommerce build, and even a bit of AI. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nThe importance of website performance: Darko emphasizes that fast-loading websites are crucial for user experience, conversion rates, and overall business profitability. He highlights that optimizing both the front end and back end is essential to achieve high performance.\n\n\n\nBenefits of headless WooCommerce: Darko explains the concept of headless WooCommerce, where the front end and back end are separated. This setup allows for faster, more scalable websites that can load quickly across the globe, offering a better user experience and improved SEO rankings.\n\n\n\nSEO and Google Ads impact: Optimizing website performance can positively affect Google Ads performance and SEO rankings. Faster websites lead to lower cost-per-click in Google Ads and better conversion rates, ultimately improving profitability.\n\n\n\nScalability and flexibility: Headless WooCommerce provides greater flexibility and scalability for businesses, allowing them to integrate various tools and APIs. This is particularly beneficial for larger enterprises with complex requirements.\n\n\n\nSecurity enhancements: Decoupling the front end and back end enhances security by reducing the attack surface. Darko stresses the importance of implementing security measures like two-factor authentication to protect both the website and user data.\n\n\n\nUse of AI in e-commerce: While AI is not yet fully developed, it can be used to improve operational efficiency and personalize user experiences. Darko mentions that AI can help generate dynamic content based on user behavior and preferences.\n\n\n\nChallenges and costs: Transitioning to a headless setup can be more costly and time-consuming initially, but the long-term benefits in performance, scalability, and user experience often justify the investment.\n\n\n\nCommunity and collaboration: The importance of the WordPress community is highlighted, with WordCamps and meetups playing a vital role in connecting professionals and fostering collaboration.\n\n\n\nFuture developments: The discussion touches on future advancements in translations and AI integration, which will further enhance the capabilities of WooCommerce sites, especially for multinational businesses.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://intellrocket.com/\">IntellRocket</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/intellrocket/\">IntellRocket on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/darkosvetolikovic/\">Darko on LinkedIn</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 18 Jul 2024 08:25:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:33;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:72:\"WPTavern: #128 – Fernando Tellado on AI Tools and Rehumanising the Web\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=157402\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:86:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/128-fernando-tellado-on-ai-tools-and-rehumanising-the-web\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40651:\"Transcript<div>\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, AI tools and making the web more human again.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast, player of choice. Or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL in some most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Fernando Tellado. Fernando is a very large force in the WordPress community in Spain. He&#8217;s the editor and writer at ayudawp.com, a blog in Spanish about WordPress with more than 15 years of publishing on a daily basis. He does consulting maintenance, security and performance services for WordPress sites. He&#8217;s published four books about WordPress. Not only that, he&#8217;s been involved with the WordPress community for 20 years organizing meetups, WordCamps, coordinating the official support forums, as well as taking leading roles in Spanish translations and Spain&#8217;s official community website.\n\n\n\nWe begin with a discussion on the current state of AI tools, which offer the capacity to generate thousands of posts in mere moments, mainly for search ranking purposes. Fernando explores the issue of content quality, and the growing challenge of distinguishing between human and AI generated content.\n\n\n\nThis leads to a chat about the strange position which Google finds itself in with its latest AI model, Gemini, which aims not only to generate content, but also to interact and answer questions like a human. How can Google on the one hand, be able to create content, and on the other be mindful of only promoting content, which it views as credible and reliable?\n\n\n\nFernando also talks about the rapid evolution of technology, drawing parallels to the industrial revolution, and it&#8217;s long lasting effects on society.\n\n\n\nHe tackles concerns about AI potentially replacing jobs, and underscores the addictive nature of mobile phones, particularly for children.\n\n\n\nThe role of government in regulating technology also comes under scrutiny, but Fernando expresses skepticism about political intervention, and instead stresses the importance of parental responsibility in guiding children&#8217;s use of technology.\n\n\n\nTowards the end, the discussion revolves around the necessity for both adults and children to learn and use technology responsibly. Fernando is passionate about the importance of human imagination, and our innate capacity to adapt to the technological environment. He advocates for individuals to slow down, assess the impact of technology on their lives, and make deliberate choices that ensure their wellbeing and that of their families.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re intrigued by the intersection of AI, WordPress, and the call for responsible unreflective use of technology, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading over to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Fernando Tellado.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast by Fernando Tellado. Hello, Fernando.\n\n\n\n[00:04:09] Fernando Tellado: Hello Nathan. Very nice to see you too.\n\n\n\n[00:04:11] Nathan Wrigley: Really nice to meet you. We are at WordCamp Europe. We&#8217;re in one of the media rooms, and we&#8217;re chatting to Fernando today because Fernando is participating at WordCamp EU. He&#8217;s got a presentation, a talk, and the talk is called Re-Humanizing the Web, and everything you want related to WordPress. Is that the correct title? Did I get that right?\n\n\n\n[00:04:31] Fernando Tellado: Yes, it&#8217;s the correct name.\n\n\n\n[00:04:32] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, perfect. So we&#8217;ll get into that presentation, and what it means, and how you are very optimistic I think, about technology and AI, and all of those kind of things. But before we do that, will you just tell us a little bit about you, your relationship with WordPress, the things that you do in your life and in the WordPress community, which I understand in Spain is huge.\n\n\n\n[00:04:53] Fernando Tellado: I have been working with WordPress for more than 15 years. In these years I have been part of the community, where there wasn&#8217;t community in Spain. We made three WordCamps in Spain, called WordCamp Spain. Afterwards, it should to be named after cities. There was a time when we could make WordCamps the country. Afterwards they said that we must make the WordCamps city related. But we made the three WordCamps in Spain called Spain WorkCamps. In 2008, 2009, 2010. It was the first, the three first ones.\n\n\n\nI was making translations at this moment. There was no community, and we began the first embryo of our community in the second WordCamp Spain, in Barcelona. And we began with translations because it was the first need, because everything in WordPress is written in English. In Spain it&#8217;s very difficult to introduce some software that isn&#8217;t in Spanish, because in Spain we don&#8217;t speak English, we don&#8217;t speak any other languages.\n\n\n\nSo it was really important for us that WordPress being in our languages, because it was our first priority. I think we have made a good work, because at this moment we are one of the biggest community. I think we are the best or the big, one of the biggest communities in translation. Every day, there aren&#8217;t any pending translation to be approved, day by day. And it&#8217;s the same in support.\n\n\n\nWe have the support forums that, every day, every question made is answered for one volunteer. And we are all volunteers. We have been volunteering for 15 years, in an everyday basis. We are very, very, few people that work in a daily basis, but very constant people. And I am only one of these people.\n\n\n\nBy the side I have a blog, where I have been writing for more than 15 years about WordPress. Almost in a daily basis. I write four or five posts a week, from Monday to Friday. I enjoy it because I write about the things I learn every day. It&#8217;s funny for me to see my blog post 15 years ago. They&#8217;re very simple. I have discovered a plugin that made this thing. The name of the plugin is that one, okay perfect, and it could be perfect for someone in every moment. Because in some moment, anyone is going to find solution for anything.\n\n\n\nAnd I have probably more than 5,000 posts. I have 40, more than 50 thousand comments in the blog. And I still write every day, because I every day work in WordPress. I work, my clients WordPress, every day I learn something. I teach WordPress to people, but I learned WordPress from everyone. From my colleagues at the work. From my clients, in every site because every site is different. Every site you have different needs, and it&#8217;s not difficult for me to write in the blog.\n\n\n\nWhen a lot of people ask me, is it not difficult for you to write every day year, after year, after year? It could be if I don&#8217;t work on WordPress, but as I work in WordPress everyday, I always have something to write about it.\n\n\n\nI like writing, I never thought that I want to write about technical things. I always thought, I will compare as a writer. I have written some books, but books about WordPress too. No books about a novel, or history that I would like. It&#8217;s about WordPress. So my life has been dedicated to WordPress in all aspects.\n\n\n\n[00:08:18] Nathan Wrigley: Quite a story. 15 years of almost daily blogging.\n\n\n\n[00:08:22] Fernando Tellado: And not expected at all.\n\n\n\n[00:08:23] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it just happened. That&#8217;s amazing. And I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a lot of people out there in the Spanish community, and maybe further afield who are very thankful for all the things that you&#8217;ve written over the years.\n\n\n\n[00:08:33] Fernando Tellado: Sometimes I feel like the father of a lot of people.\n\n\n\n[00:08:36] Nathan Wrigley: The Spanish community.\n\n\n\n[00:08:37] Fernando Tellado: Because I am getting older, it is good to get older too. You have some perspective about things. I am more kind. It is very difficult to make me angry.\n\n\n\n[00:08:46] Nathan Wrigley: So do you build websites for clients still? It sounds like, from what you said, that&#8217;s what promotes the bits and pieces that you are writing each day, because you find a new thing, you solve the problem, then you write about it. Yeah, like that, okay perfect.\n\n\n\nYou&#8217;ve got this topic that you are doing at WordCamp Europe. By the way, have you done it already?\n\n\n\n[00:09:03] Fernando Tellado: I did a basis at WordCamp Pontevedra, it&#8217;s a city in the north of Spain. I made a presentation, in which the first part was somewhat like the first part of the presentation. I&#8217;m going to talk tomorrow.\n\n\n\n[00:09:17] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, it&#8217;s tomorrow, okay.\n\n\n\n[00:09:18] Fernando Tellado: Tomorrow at 12.\n\n\n\n[00:09:19] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, perfect. So it&#8217;s called Re-humanising the Web, and everything you want related to WordPress. If you are saying that rehumanising the web is a thing, that means, I presume you think it got dehumanised at some point.\n\n\n\n[00:09:34] Fernando Tellado: At some point, yes.\n\n\n\n[00:09:35] Nathan Wrigley: What do you mean by that? What&#8217;s been dehumanised in the web? Just try to sum up your thoughts.\n\n\n\n[00:09:40] Fernando Tellado: The bad use of the tools. I think the tools are great. I am absolutely pro technology, I am absolutely pro AI, but we use badly, the technology. We are dehumanisation, the web. The website is our environment, it&#8217;s where we live, it&#8217;s where we find, and it is where we will work, in your case or mine. And it&#8217;s very important, I think it is the most important thing in the 21st century of the web. And we must take care of the website, or the web. And when people make bad use of the technology, they can dehumanise the technology.\n\n\n\nExamples could be niches. There are a lot of people that have a lot of expertise on making niches, with niches automatically. From five years ago, they have the automatic WordPress packs, that they could make about 50 or hundreds of websites in a day or two days, in order to promote SEO niches.\n\n\n\nToday, with the AI, they can make about 100,000 websites per day, with the aid of the AI, and paid of $1, $2, or $10. It is very cheap, and it&#8217;s very easy to make niches. And niches, there are websites that doesn&#8217;t make nothing to the people. They are not going to answer questions. We use the internet in order to answer our questions. When we go to Google, what is Google? Google is our psychologist. We ask Google, what&#8217;s happened to me? Do you have any answers? We are going to make questions to Google.\n\n\n\nSo the people to make niches, the niches website. So it is going to make the website less useful than yesterday. This is dehumanising because there are not people after this content. They are only a machine, that has not brought this content in order to answer a question of a human. It is made only to satisfy the need of the person that works in marketing for SEO, and he&#8217;s promoting one niche.\n\n\n\n[00:11:38] Nathan Wrigley: So if we rewind the clock, let&#8217;s go for five years. If we go back in time five years, when human beings created every piece of content, of course they could copy and paste and that happened. But mostly the content was written by a human, and it was written at a scale which humans could keep up with. So one post per day, two posts per day, whatever. And now you&#8217;re saying that the AI tools can create 10,000 posts in a heartbeat, in a few minutes.\n\n\n\n[00:12:09] Fernando Tellado: Who can read that?\n\n\n\n[00:12:10] Nathan Wrigley: Right, but also, why is it being created? And from what you are saying, it&#8217;s been created purely for Google, SEO.\n\n\n\n[00:12:16] Fernando Tellado: Purely for business.\n\n\n\n[00:12:17] Nathan Wrigley: And ultimately that makes everything pointless because if there&#8217;s 10 trillion articles out on the internet, how can Google, which has, people argue about Google and whether it&#8217;s a force for good or a force for evil, but it&#8217;s definitely been helpful finding information. In the future, if we flood the landscape with AI written content, how can we ever decide what&#8217;s actually useful? And I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve got there yet. But do you see it coming? Do you see a day when that will happen, if we don&#8217;t put the brakes on?\n\n\n\n[00:12:53] Fernando Tellado: I think there are a lot of players that can act in that way, in order to pull the brake. Google is one of these, because Google can defer between human and not human content. Very easy. It&#8217;s very easy for Google. It&#8217;s very easy for us too. If we read every day, we can distinguish human made content or not.\n\n\n\nBut I think Google is making the road easy in order to publish AI content. And at the same time, it&#8217;s putting in the road tools in order to pull the brake. Because Google is, at the moment, refactoring the more personal research. As you can remember, some years ago, beside some results you can see the face of the person who wrote the post.\n\n\n\nI think Google is, well, no, Google has, I say that he&#8217;s going to this type of recognising, or the way of recognising, the author of the content, in order to distinguish between human made content and AI content. Because I think it&#8217;s a matter of survival for Google, because the end, we are going to rely on the tool, and Google is a tool. It&#8217;s a big, I always say this, it is a big spreadsheet. I always see Google as a big, big, big spreadsheet. A big, big, big form, that has the results that can be useful or not.\n\n\n\nIn few years, doesn&#8217;t find good result for us, answer for us, we are going to abandon the tool. We are abandoned a lot of tools by the time. Younger people think that some tools are not going to disappear, never. And you and I know that it&#8217;s just, it does not even happen. We have seen disappear tools like Photo Log. We can see disappear, Facebook in some moment, or Instagram. Everything is possible, and Google too.\n\n\n\n[00:14:36] Nathan Wrigley: What I find curious about, let&#8217;s just keep talking about the Google example, because it&#8217;s really easy to understand the benefit of Google. But curious that Google are also in the AI race. At the moment when we&#8217;re recording this in June 2024, they have this Gemini model, it&#8217;s called Gemini. And it&#8217;s obviously an LLM to create content.\n\n\n\nBut also, there&#8217;s the flip side. It&#8217;s not just about creating content, but it&#8217;s about answering questions, and interacting, and it&#8217;s kind of trying to be a human, if you like. So for Google, it&#8217;s a really difficult balancing act, because on the one hand, they&#8217;ve got to keep up with the AI opposition, so people like, I don&#8217;t know, Anthropic or OpenAI.\n\n\n\n[00:15:18] Fernando Tellado: People like AI.\n\n\n\n[00:15:18] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But also they&#8217;ve got to protect their search engine business, because if that gets just full up of AI, exactly what you said, it won&#8217;t even take five years. It would take a year for people to say, well, Google&#8217;s useless. It just gives me rubbish every time. I&#8217;m going to stop using it and go elsewhere. So that&#8217;s a very, very difficult path to tread for them I think.\n\n\n\n[00:15:41] Fernando Tellado: I don&#8217;t think, where is the market going? Where is going Google? Because one, two years ago we were, every moment, talking about NFTs, and who talk about NFTs today? Nobody. We have the Bitcoin bros, now we have the AI bros. People who embrace every new technology the most. And who knows? Who knows?\n\n\n\nI think we must have embraced the technology, as every technology gives us something to learn, and take the best of every technology, in order to advance in our life, and in the society. And every technology has the capacity to make a better life for us. From nuclear energy, it&#8217;s an extreme example, but nuclear energy has become a very important way of make our lives better through the years.\n\n\n\nIn some years not, but through the years, it has become a very important technology in our lives. With this whole, more little technologies, it is going to be the same. In some point they&#8217;re going to convert it to facilities, to something that we assume that every time has been there, and we are going to take the better of every technology. In the case of the NFTs, in the case of the AI, we have some kind of AIs from 10 ago. It&#8217;s not really new. Growing in very few months, and the technology of ChatGPT, in order more conversational in the AI.\n\n\n\nBut it&#8217;s like a city, it&#8217;s like an evolution of a city. There&#8217;s an evolution of all the oldest and older technologies. We have to present attention to these technologies, but not to give them too much attention.\n\n\n\n[00:17:22] Nathan Wrigley: Interesting. Yeah, the thing that you said there about Bitcoin and NFTs, yeah, you&#8217;re really right. If you were to go back, I don&#8217;t know, three years or something like that, they really were being talked about a lot. You could barely open a newspaper without somebody talking about Bitcoin, and now complete silence. Nobody&#8217;s talking about that. And so maybe the same will happen to AI, and we&#8217;re in a kind of hype cycle at the moment, where everybody&#8217;s obsessing about it.\n\n\n\nI do wonder about that. I do wonder about, let&#8217;s say, for example, companies like OpenAI who have a lot of money tied up in it being successful, and presumably spend quite a lot of their time telling us how wonderful it&#8217;s going to be, marketing it to us, if you like. And maybe that cycle, we&#8217;ll just get bored of it. We just get disinterested, and it will just become something that we use, but we&#8217;re not really, you know, it&#8217;s nothing to worry about. It&#8217;s nothing to get excited about even, because it&#8217;s just what we&#8217;ve got.\n\n\n\n[00:18:22] Fernando Tellado: No, I think we can excite about this. But at the end, all of these technologies in a certain point became a standard. When everyone used the word it tends, in a moment, to not make sense. It&#8217;s like freedom or anything. When everyone talks about freedom, freedom doesn&#8217;t mean anything. That&#8217;s the same. At this moment, I think AI is a claim for every services. Every day we see services with the new AI, with artificial intelligence. Everything has AI, not in my case.\n\n\n\nMy case, I have that claim, in the blog that is, write it with no AI. You&#8217;re not expecting to have something that is going to give you always the reason, because AI always gives you the reason. If you discuss with AI, for example, in ChatGPT, it tends to be nice with you always.\n\n\n\nI think this is the first sentence someone teach to the AI. Be nice. At the end, be nice. If someone discuss with you, be nice. Don&#8217;t discuss with anything, because do you remember there have been some scandals about the AI in Gemini I thought? Create soldiers of the second world war.\n\n\n\n[00:19:27] Nathan Wrigley: An image of the.\n\n\n\n[00:19:29] Fernando Tellado: Nazis and so on. That&#8217;s because they have no contest, no one behind to tell the child, because it&#8217;s a child. No, not this way, better this way. You must learn it every day. And the AI is interesting, if always is going to be someone behind learning every day what it&#8217;s going to be, how it must behave with the environment, because the environment changes. We have something different as humans, it&#8217;s our capacity to adapt our environment to us, and adapt us to our environment. This is the story of the humans.\n\n\n\nSo there are some things that I&#8217;m going to talk in my presentation at WordCamp Europe. I want to talk especially about this, because always there&#8217;re going to be technology. There&#8217;s going to be amazing technology, but always remember that the technology doesn&#8217;t make by themselves. Always there&#8217;s a human that is capable to imagine that technology in the first place. This is the most important thing. The most important thing is to imagine that technology, and this is a human capacity.\n\n\n\nAnd in the second place, it could be to make this technology, or make work this technology. But human is capable to imagine things, that is the most important thing, that because I not afraid of technology. Because I know that for years in the history has been demonstrated that only a human can imagine how could be things. All the rest of the animals, if we can embrace in the animal race or something, has a lot of capacities, but not the capacity to imagine it&#8217;s own life. Or it&#8217;s own capabilities more beyond the actual capabilities. And that&#8217;s because the human can make AIs, and sort of interesting and amazing things.\n\n\n\n[00:21:10] Nathan Wrigley: Does it concern you that, even though AIs seemingly can&#8217;t be truly creative in the way that a human can. If you tell it to draw a picture of a, I don&#8217;t know, a dog sitting on a landscape with the moon in the background, and it can do something like that. And it looks like creativity, but if we understand the way that that&#8217;s actually happening, it&#8217;s merely a process of, okay, what should this next pixel look like? And eventually it comes out, and it&#8217;s got a picture of a dog, but it&#8217;s not created that question itself.\n\n\n\nDo you worry that it&#8217;s good enough that it could put a lot of people out of work, who are doing work that doesn&#8217;t require much creativity? I don&#8217;t know, imagine that you are in a call center, you&#8217;re a support agent, and you are answering questions. The responsibilities that you have are not all that complicated, it&#8217;s fairly basic.\n\n\n\nI think some people worry that those kind of jobs are going to disappear, because an AI can take over. And then if we imagine the career ladder, you know, you start on the bottom rung, and you go to the next one, and eventually you retire at the top. If we knock out the bottom layer, it&#8217;s going to be hard for the next generation, the children of today to start the career, because that whole bottom layer has disappeared. And I don&#8217;t know how that&#8217;s all going to pan out, but that concerns me a little bit.\n\n\n\n[00:22:28] Fernando Tellado: Yeah, I can understand you. It&#8217;s a concern for me too because I always think about the children. Who&#8217;s going to think about the children? I want to talk about this because there are tools that could be very useful for you and for me, but it is not useful, and they are not suitable, and not recommendable to children.\n\n\n\nA simple case, calculator is very good for a person that is a physician, a mathematician that knows how to calculate, and used the tool in order to gain time.\n\n\n\nBut it&#8217;s not a good tool for the children because this tool is going to retain him or her to learn how to calculate. We must put some breaks on, or close 13 doors in order to maintain these priorities. I think we must think about the tools, not only what tool can do, more about, in what moment is this tool can be thrown to the people, or to who?\n\n\n\nBecause it is very important that, from the beginning of your life, we train our brain in order to make all the human can do. And in some moments the tool can be the worst idea for us. There&#8217;s a certain part of our brain, it&#8217;s the prefrontal cortex. It&#8217;s very important in this thing. There are a lot of scientifical studies, it&#8217;s very, very, very interesting. You&#8217;re aware about, are concerned, and in this case, about what is going to happen with humanity and society.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s very important in this part of our brain because this is the part of the brain that distinguish us as human from the other animals. And it&#8217;s especially important for the children. Because, not only for the new tools of the AI, that is very important in case of social media. They use the consummation of social media, it&#8217;s a very instant transformation. It&#8217;s an transformation that very few seconds, cannot train the brain, the prefrontal cortex, to make all the things that the prefrontal cortex could do.\n\n\n\nThis part of the brain is the part that differentiates us in things as important as predictions, imagination, how to be nice in a conversation when you need to be nice, when to know how to empathy with someone. There are very important things that some of these tools, today tools, like social media networks, and the AI can not permit this part of the brain to grow as needed.\n\n\n\nSo, we as parents, we as human adults, we have a responsibility in order to allow our children, or other children to grow as sane as possible, and not to allow to use some tools in certain ages. In Europe, some countries is beginning to forbid to make the mobile phones in the classroom. Because it have been obvious that the attention is dispersed, and the children learn badly.\n\n\n\nSo I think we are going to this kind of better use of the technology, because it&#8217;s true what you say at the beginning of our conversation about the extra hype of the AI, or the new tools. A point that the people cannot distinguish on the right use of externally.\n\n\n\n[00:25:29] Nathan Wrigley: I think that&#8217;s a really interesting point, because you talked about a calculator, and how that saved you a lot of time, but no child is going to hold the calculator and use it at three o&#8217;clock in the morning, or be addicted to doing calculations. I mean, maybe there is a child somewhere who would use the calculator all day, every day because they&#8217;re just fascinated.\n\n\n\nBut the mobile phone in particular, really has the capacity to subvert the entire day. You know, you can pour all of yourself into that thing, you&#8217;re scrolling on some kind of social media, or you&#8217;re chatting with people, or you&#8217;re just watching videos.\n\n\n\nAnd especially for children who are born in an era where that was always around, and they see their parents that are addicted to it, and they see that everybody at the bus stop is using it, that then has become, well, that&#8217;s how normal people function.\n\n\n\nEverybody&#8217;s scrolling all the time, and that concerns me a lot because there is something unique about that device. There&#8217;s some way that it can drag you in. Even, you know, the moment you&#8217;ve got nothing to do, out comes the phone, and you can spend a long time. So I think you&#8217;re right. I think there is a little bit of a shift at the moment. I think people are starting to recognise, that&#8217;s probably not healthy for anybody to be doing that.\n\n\n\n[00:26:48] Fernando Tellado: I understand absolutely. But we must think that, in very few years, we have gone, we have traveled in a work, in our parents, in a lot of cases, having got a telephone in the release. Very, very few years ago.\n\n\n\n[00:27:01] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah not long.\n\n\n\n[00:27:02] Fernando Tellado: When you and me born and grow, there weren&#8217;t internet. And the problem is for children, but we all child too, because we&#8217;re not training in the current use of these new technologies. Technologies are over us, but not only over the children, it&#8217;s over us, everyone.\n\n\n\nWe are not trained how to make a good use of these technologies. We might be trained before, we might be able to be trained, afterwards train the children. We are the first one to train in how to use in the core, the way these technologies, because we are not trained to do it. We have been born in our world very different, and we are astonishing about this technology, because it&#8217;s brilliant. They&#8217;re awesome. So they surprise us, and we use that in a platform. And we must train us in the first place, and after train the children.\n\n\n\n[00:27:53] Fernando Tellado: This is a matter of too much information, too much changes in very few time, for everyone. We must put the breaks on in some moment, and make a reflection. For example, my presentation, it&#8217;s not a talk. I&#8217;m not going to give answers to any question. I would like to make the people reflect about this problem, this opportunity, in order not to be concerned, in order to be responsible. We must change. As adults, as human adults, we must send to the responsibility, and begin to train ourselves in how to use this technology in a good way.\n\n\n\nWe can hear a lot of the startups, that is beginning to talk about the bad things about their own technologies. They say a lot of people see themselves as startups, and says about, they don&#8217;t allow the children to learn with the iPads, or tablets, or so on because they know what they are going do.\n\n\n\nWe&#8217;re the people, with the adult humans, enlightened with technologies, don&#8217;t know how work really the technology. These younger people that knows how the algorithms works are telling us the truth. And the truth is that we must begin to learn how to use these technologies, and afterwards spread it to the children. I don&#8217;t mind about you and me because we are adults, and we affect our responsibilities, and make our own life. But we must take responsibility for the children\n\n\n\n[00:29:13] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, it&#8217;s an interesting thought because, first of all, I imagine it&#8217;s true that every generation that has ever been has faced something which they thought was going to be the end of humanity. You know, whether it was the printing press, Gutenberg&#8217;s printing press, or whether it was, oh I don&#8217;t know, the plough, or whatever it may be. This is going to be the end of all the things. And it feels like this one really could be that, and yet it&#8217;s probably just one, you know, and in history, 200 years from now, people will look back on our time and say, oh, that was an interesting moment.\n\n\n\n[00:29:43] Fernando Tellado: This is very interesting to realise that today, I pay my dues, things, a technology that didn&#8217;t exist when I was born. And it was going to be the same as the time passes. At the moment, there are works that doesn&#8217;t exist, that in the future are going to exist, and a lot of people will work in this new works that doesn&#8217;t exist at the moment.\n\n\n\nThe more radical change I think was in the industrial revolution. That changed everything. It changed not only the way human work, they introduce the plastics, as we know at this moment, because it changed everything. We create the cities because there weren&#8217;t cities before, we create the industries, we create the supermarkets, all the world as we know it at the moment.\n\n\n\nIt led to some problems. We are living today with problems created in that moment, in the Industrial Revolution. As, in the future, someone is going to live with the problems we are creating now, right now with another technologies. But there is going to be always somewhere that is going to disappear.\n\n\n\n[00:30:47] Nathan Wrigley: I have one final question, which is that, you say we need to train ourselves. And I think that&#8217;s a really important message. If you detect in yourself that technology has overtaken important parts of your life, you need to be an adult, I guess, and say to yourself, put it down. Stop using it at the moments where it&#8217;s not useful or it&#8217;s not important, or, I don&#8217;t know, you are ignoring your family because of it. And we need to train the children to have that understanding. So there&#8217;s that message as well.\n\n\n\nDo you prefer, or maybe there&#8217;s no perfect way, do you think government should be involved in this? Like you said, certain countries are saying, you may not carry mobile phones in schools. In the UK, very recently, I doubt it will happen, but one of the political parties suggested that mobile phones should be banned until you are 16 years old, which is a really, hitting a nut with a big hammer. What do you think about that? Do you think it should be more personal education, or top down government, giving us guidance about what we can and cannot do?\n\n\n\n[00:31:49] Fernando Tellado: I have problem with politicians because I not confident of them. Politics is very important in our lives, it&#8217;s the way we lead us, decide who is going to represent us. And that&#8217;s the way this must to be. But, at the end, political are the new kingdom, are the new cast, are the new kings. So they are very separate for all decisions at the moment. In the case of children, I am especially unconfident, because a politician is always going to try to train the new generations, in order to be good for him.\n\n\n\nAnd I always prefer that the fathers decide because, I know very few things, but I think that I knew that a father going to do nothing that could be bad for your children. You&#8217;re going to always protect your children because it&#8217;s always you. Is you are father? I don&#8217;t know.\n\n\n\n[00:32:41] Nathan Wrigley: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:32:42] Fernando Tellado: Yes. You are not going to do anything that is going to be bad for your children. That&#8217;s not the same in the politician. The ideas could be nice, could be affordable, but at the end, the fathers has to be the last decision in those things. I don&#8217;t believe in politician at the moment because I miss my life. My life in Spain, we&#8217;ve had very bad politicians for life. From dictators, to actual, and, not better. But, at the end, we had the less responsibility in the family, we have to decide.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s difficult for us because easier for us when someone go to our house, poof, read instructions. I get to my son, read instructions, they are more prepared to do these kind of things. I must read the instructions in order to know, is this tool going to be good or bad to my children? Because I have the responsibility as they live in my home, and I&#8217;m responsible for them, I&#8217;m responsible for what this technology is going to be in their lives.\n\n\n\nSo we must take that responsibility in every little thing. We must stop, as you say. We must stop a moment, say, I go, it&#8217;s a mobile phone, it&#8217;s interesting. There are other apps. What is this app? What this app is important for me, or it&#8217;s important for my children. We must live more quietly, and take the things with a little more time. We don&#8217;t need to live so fast, it&#8217;s not necessary, not mandatory.\n\n\n\nIt is good for Facebook, it&#8217;s good for Meta, good for Google because they live from the algorithms, and they live for how many times we scroll in the mobile phone. But our life is not that. We don&#8217;t need so many things. And there are very good technologies, there are good AIs that we can use for our benefit, not for the benefit of who made it in the first time, or someone&#8217;s needs above our need.\n\n\n\n[00:34:27] Nathan Wrigley: I think I understand a lot more about what you mean by rehumanising the web now. You&#8217;ve really explained it very well. So thank you for chatting to us today. Unfortunately, time is short, so we&#8217;re going tohave to, as we say in the UK, knock it on the head. We&#8217;ll have to end there, but that was a really interesting conversation. So, Fernando Tellado, thank you so much for chatting to me today.\n\n\n\n[00:34:46] Fernando Tellado: It has been a pleasure for me.\n</div>\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fernandot/\">Fernando Tellado</a>.\n\n\n\nFernando is a very large force in the WordPress community in Spain. He’s the editor and writer at <a href=\"https://ayudawp.com/\">ayudawp.com</a>, a blog in Spanish about WordPress, with more than 15 years of publishing on a daily basis. He does consulting, maintenance, security and performance services for WordPress sites. He’s published four books about WordPress. Not only that, he’s been involved with the WordPress community for 20 years, organising meetups, WordCamps, coordinating the official support forums, as well as taking leading roles in Spanish translations, and Spain&#8217;s official community website.\n\n\n\nWe begin with a discussion on the current state of AI tools which offer the capacity to generate thousands of posts in mere moments, mainly for search ranking purposes. Fernando explores the issue of content quality and the growing challenge of distinguishing between human and AI-generated content. This leads to a chat about the strange position which Google finds itself in with its latest AI model, Gemini, which aims not only to generate content but also to interact and answer questions like a human. How can Google on the one hand be able to create content, and on the other be mindful of only promoting content which it views as credible and reliable?\n\n\n\nFernando also talks about the rapid evolution of technology, drawing parallels to the industrial revolution and its long-lasting effects on society. He tackles concerns about AI potentially replacing jobs and underscores the addictive nature of mobile phones, particularly for children. The role of government in regulating technology also comes under scrutiny, but Fernando expresses scepticism about political intervention, and instead stresses the importance of parental responsibility in guiding children&#8217;s use of technology.\n\n\n\nTowards the end, the discussion revolves around the necessity for both adults and children to learn and use technology responsibly. Fernando is passionate about the importance of human imagination and our innate capacity to adapt to the technological environment. He advocates for individuals to slow down, assess the impact of technology on their lives, and make deliberate choices that ensure their well-being and that of their families.\n\n\n\nIf you’re intrigued by the intersection of AI, WordPress, and the call for responsible and reflective use of technology, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://ayudawp.com/\">ayudawp.com</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/session/re-humanising-the-web/\">Re-Humanizing the Web</a> &#8211; Fernando&#8217;s presentation and WordCamp Europe 2024\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://pontevedra.wordcamp.org/2024/\">PonteWordCamp</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gemini.google.com/?hl=en-GB\">Gemini</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://openai.com/\">OpenAI</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.anthropic.com/\">Anthropic</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:34;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"Do The Woo Community: Boosting WooCommerce Performance with Marcel and Mike\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84634\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:74:\"https://dothewoo.io/boosting-woocommerce-performance-with-marcel-and-mike/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48846:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-51 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-50 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-11 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-49 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-21 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-48 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://developer.avalara.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a>: help developers make sure their Woo projects are tax compliance done right with Avalara&#8217;s API. Visit their extensive developer resources today.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nMike: Yeah, I think having adequate resources for the site is super important. So there&#8217;s enough CPU and RAM, using fast SSD drives. There&#8217;s room for growth. A lot of the time I see not enough resources being allocated for the database, for example. It&#8217;s like having a big enough engine to power that database. Having access for developers like SSH analytics tools, being able to access the logs and scrape those properly for little nuggets of information. Having some sort of application performance monitor (APM) like New Relic is the one that I use the most. It&#8217;s pretty popular because you want to be ideally alerted and proactive about performance issues rather than reactive. You don&#8217;t want to find out customers are emailing you or blasting you on social media that, oh, you&#8217;re trying to check out on this thing again and it&#8217;s crashing or slow or whatever. It&#8217;s better if you get an alert from your own systems that you have set up for monitoring, etc., to go out and put that fire out and be able to pinpoint the issue very, very quickly instead of trying to play detective with discovering all the clues instead of having the clues handed to you.\n\n\n\nHaving some sort of CDN integration I think is quite important as well. There are a lot of Cloudflare enterprise partners now with hosting companies, which I think is, if you wanted to build your own Cloudflare network, good luck. That&#8217;s a lot of resources, a lot of money. So I think it&#8217;s easier to just get a host that already leverages their network for the DDoS protection and the security because sometimes the performance issues I see on WooCommerce sites are actually security related. The site is constantly getting attacked on the login page or good old XML-RPC, which has been around since the dawn of computing and is used but can still be a very common attack vector. And fraudulent orders was one that I saw come up recently. This client had a bot network that was attacking them, making a bunch of fraudulent orders, just taking up resources from real people who are actually buying stuff. So yeah, those are the things I think off the top of my head.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And I obviously think that the very basic part of it, of the hosting, is if you have an audience or a market that is more US-based or European-based or whatever region you&#8217;re selling to or providing your services to, that also plays a very important role in deciding which area of the world you&#8217;re selling to and then choosing a hosting company that has good data centers or good resources in that specific area. The region of the world is, I guess, the number one thing we should look for when we&#8217;re going to choose a hosting company because they all say they are very fast everywhere, but if you dig a little deeper, you will see that they are probably more US-based. So whenever you go to a hosting company and you search for their data centers and where they&#8217;re located, some of them, even when you spin up a hosting service, they will ask which area do you want to cover.\n\n\n\nI think some of them are more US-based, some of them are more European-based, and we have Asian ones. For example, if you want to go to the Asian market and sell in China, Japan, and other countries, it&#8217;s far more challenging to choose the right hosting company than it would be to sell in Europe or in the US. So that would be probably my advice: choose a hosting company that has all the services you talked about and all the little details that they care about, specific for WooCommerce, but also where they are really strong when it comes to providing the fastest services in the region of the world you want to sell. Number two, I would say, is the theme. When we talk about the theme, do your clients go more with existing themes and then change that, or do they have custom themes?\n\n\n\nMike: It depends on the size of the client. I work with a range of small businesses to enterprise clients. One of the Shark Tank clients I&#8217;m working with, they were using a very popular commercial theme that had a lot of extra bloat and unnecessary stuff they didn&#8217;t need. I told them, you have the budget and the resources, go custom. It&#8217;s hard to compete with the performance of a custom-built theme, and if you have resources available to maintain it going forward, absolutely it&#8217;s the way to go. I generally find that smaller businesses, when they&#8217;re just starting out, they don&#8217;t know if what they&#8217;re going to build and try is going to have legs, is it going to work, is it going to make money?\n\n\n\nSo they will tend to pick a theme that is pretty, has predefined templates that will work with WooCommerce, and has a bunch of features. As time goes on, they probably also use a page builder or two or three I&#8217;m sure we&#8217;ve all seen, and other components. That will tend to, of course, slow things down. I tell them during consultations that if you&#8217;re using a certain combination of theme and a page builder, I would start with removing that and then if you&#8217;re still not happy, we can look further at what&#8217;s slowing things down. So I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s a mixture. Whenever I see a custom-built theme with a cart, I&#8217;m like, oh good. This means that I don&#8217;t have to have that difficult conversation of if they&#8217;re really in love with their theme or the design that the theme provides, and you tell them, hey, you have to get rid of this. It&#8217;s like taking a toy away from a child that they&#8217;re very, very happy with. Then I tell them, no, no, no, you can have the same design and features, just rebuild it with lighter components.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And usually as a developer, when you have a client that is using an existing theme and they start having these ideas about, oh, what if we could change this page and make the image appear on the right side instead of the left side, or we need the description to have a bigger place now let&#8217;s move it down, or now we need an extra tab for this or for that. And then you suddenly end up having so much customization on top of an existing theme that you start asking yourself or challenging the client, this is becoming so cumbersome to maintain all of these changes. It would make more sense to build a custom theme. I would say if you have the resources and if your client has the resources, a custom theme may seem like very hard work at the beginning because you have to do all of those standard pages, the 404s, the search page and all of that, but it will compensate in the end because if you have full control of everything that is being loaded on a theme and usually when you go with an existing theme, you don&#8217;t need all of the features that they offer, you have a lot more control over performance.\n\n\n\nSo if you&#8217;re starting out, fine, but if you want to invest in something that is very important to the performance, I would say the theme is the number one category where you should put some resources because we&#8217;re talking about web performance and we&#8217;re talking about key metrics that we can measure. The theme part is one of the most important components because it is responsible for the front-end part. When we talk about key metrics, we talk about LCP (Largest Contentful Paint), we talk about the First Input Delay (FID), we talk about Cumulative Layout Shift (CLS), which is when the page loads and things start moving up and down because the images are loading or different parts of the page are loading and they&#8217;re shifting up and down, which makes it very confusing for a user to follow. That is all the theme, or mostly the theme&#8217;s responsibility. From the key metrics, what is the most important one in your view?\n\n\n\nMike: I think Largest Contentful Paint (LCP) is a big one. So related to conversion rates, time to first byte as well. I know it&#8217;s not a core web vital, but…\n\n\n\nMarcel: I forgot to mention that. It&#8217;s an important key metric as well.\n\n\n\nMike: Everything else, the Largest Contentful Paint can only be as fast as the time to first byte. And there&#8217;s also Interaction to Next Paint (INP), which you mentioned in the introduction, right? That I think replaced FID, the transition because when you click the button or whatever and you don&#8217;t see something happening within a few milliseconds, we get confused or frustrated and keep clicking the button faster. That&#8217;s a common human thing where we think clicking the button harder and more intensely will make it work. Maybe you press your mouse button extra hard or…\n\n\n\nMarcel: Multiple times.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, like clicking the elevator button faster and faster…\n\n\n\nMarcel: It&#8217;s not coming. Let&#8217;s press again.\n\n\n\nMike: I think that one is really important for stores because of the add-to-cart checkout flow. It&#8217;s important to signal to the user that they&#8217;re making progress towards their end goal and with their journey of trying to get this product or service that you&#8217;re selling. That one is more difficult to measure in, not in the wild, but to pinpoint where the INP issue is coming from is not as difficult as Largest Contentful Paint, for example, which is well established for being very related to the revenue conversion rates. There&#8217;s a cool calculator that Google put out a long time ago that they deprecated for some reason. I don&#8217;t know why, but we took the code and put it on my website. I think I&#8217;ve sent you the link before too with this LCP Premier calculator.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And I would recommend everybody to take a look at that because it&#8217;s very interesting how much you can estimate the increase in terms of conversions just by tweaking some of these key metrics in more performance.\n\n\n\nMike: It can help a lot to put things into perspective for the clients. It&#8217;s not based on a specific niche. It&#8217;s aggregated data that people and Google Analytics opted in to allow Google to track. So it&#8217;s from all niches across all different industries, and it gives us the best idea of if we can improve the LCP from X to Y, and if you know your average order value, the amount of customers that come\n\n\n\nper month, and one other piece I can&#8217;t remember, you can see how much more revenue you will get if you make that improvement in the LCP. It can help shortcut some of the conversations about price. If you&#8217;re saying, oh, it&#8217;s going to cost $10,000 or $20,000 to do this reworking of the site or whatever, and they can see, oh, that sounds expensive, but if you use the calculator they can see, oh, that&#8217;s going to mean half a million extra in potential profit from a business perspective, it becomes a much easier decision.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And clients do have sort of the first impression that they get when we present them these numbers and we talk about this specific calculator you&#8217;re talking about and they go, oh, that sounds too much or that sounds too good to be true and all of that. But you&#8217;ve done that. You actually have some cases on a website where you improve some clients&#8217; websites and it really turned into more profit. So that&#8217;s something that clients will notice after you do performance tweaks and it&#8217;s something that is absolutely incredible how they suddenly start believing in you and suddenly start seeing how important performance is to their funnel and to the sales and conversions and all of that. It sort of makes you feel a little bit like a magician or a special god of some sorts when you get to that point and then that client is hooked to you forever, I would say.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, it&#8217;s a very effective way to establish trust for the long-term because a lot of this stuff when it comes to performance is unknown for a client. We all know technology is unreliable, unpredictable, we can have the best intentions, we can make all these plans and then something that we didn&#8217;t anticipate can mess things up. And so I think even if you have these case studies and you have lots of proof and stories, clients are still a little bit like, ah, but maybe that won&#8217;t work for us. So when it does, I can see the struggle in their faces and that hesitation like, ah, they&#8217;re taking that leap, jumping off the cliff and spending the money where things could not get any better. That&#8217;s one of their main concerns, that it&#8217;s not going to provide the return on investment. Fortunately, when you follow a specific methodology, and I&#8217;m sure this is true for anyone who&#8217;s worked with performance, if the client is getting enough traffic, if the user experience of the site is otherwise good, their business model is sound. When you&#8217;re improving the performance, it always makes sense within reason. Of course, once you get to a certain point, unless you&#8217;re Amazon or Walmart or a very large client, spending an extra $500,000 to improve performance is not necessarily going to make sense. But for smaller clients, the initial performance tuning is pretty much always worth it.\n\n\n\nMarcel: I guess being aware that it is an important factor when you go online and do sell products is step one to admit regardless of your size. And I&#8217;ve seen other big brands in Portugal and the companies who were selling online who initially didn&#8217;t give that much of a thought about performance and their websites were being slow and inconsistent and they were difficult to navigate. And since some time back, a couple of them have been actually working on their performance side and worrying about all these different key metrics we just talked about. And guess what? They&#8217;re selling better. And you usually think big companies and big brands, oh, they must for sure know about this. And you probably also think, oh, my client has been online selling this product for more than 10 years now. He heard about performance, he&#8217;s done everything that he can. Surprisingly, many people do not know about it in a way that affects immediately their conversion rate.\n\n\n\nI wanted to talk also about plugins and the importance of plugins and especially the number of plugins that people install. They think they&#8217;re essential and they&#8217;re not. So my experience is more in terms of whenever I get hands on a website, it is performing very slowly. 30, 40 plus plugins are installed. Oh, when we start doing the audit and ask, do you need this plugin? What is this for? We certainly get rid of 10 immediately just by talking two minutes into the list of the plugins. And just that alone already cuts down the time considerably. And all the other plugins that are installed there are usually because there&#8217;s something missing on the e-commerce out-of-the-box features that people don&#8217;t have. And we&#8217;ve also seen WooCommerce iterating and adding some of those missing features into the core installation. But the number of plugins is also another thing that is very important to talk about, and that means also you need to update them and the more you have, the more security issues you have. You certainly also have multiple plugins that do the same function, or at least in their feature list they offer the same things and you just add things to the website that are absolutely not necessary.\n\n\n\nSo when it comes to choosing a plugin, it&#8217;s also important to know about their performance and how they affect performance and if they are built in a way that shows the concern of the author of the plugin was performance or not. We usually use plugins to do image optimizations, maybe to do caching as well. We&#8217;re going to talk about caching next. We use plugins basically to change features and to add features to WooCommerce. So plugins are very important. What is your experience with plugins? And you mentioned page builders. Page builders are plugins, but there are other nightmares that we can talk about when it comes to plugins and performance, right?\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, I mean my approach is similar to yours. It&#8217;s remarkable how frequently you ask just simple questions, why do you have three forms plugins or what is this for? And they say, oh, well we haven&#8217;t used that in six months or a year, or we don&#8217;t use that plugin or feature anymore. And I tell them what you said, every plugin is a security liability and a performance liability. So as soon as you don&#8217;t need it, treat your website like an F1 car. There&#8217;s nothing on an F1 car that doesn&#8217;t need to be there. If it has a specific purpose and provides some value in some way, it should be there, otherwise, there&#8217;s no reason to have it. But otherwise, I would say the plugin quality is much more important than the plugin quantity. So I have seen websites that have 90 plugins and perform very, very well.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s absolutely possible, but it&#8217;s usually these heavier plugins that have lots of bundled features, 80% of which you don&#8217;t use, and then you do that 10 times and you can see them in the profiling, code profiling, tools, plugins that are just finding out, do I need to run or running unnecessarily on pages. For example, a client I mentioned earlier, Bingbot. Bingbot was crawling a product archive page and it was triggering the membership plugin to see if the Bingbot had access to the particular pages of products on that product category page because the way the plugin was configured was to grant access based on categories and I was like, it&#8217;s ridiculous. First of all, a bot isn&#8217;t going to log in and take any courses or download any products, but there was literally no reason for the membership plugin to execute. So that was down to code quality in my experience and making sure that plugins, pretty much most plugins I see, do not have the logic to find out, do I need to execute here? Do I need to do anything here before it starts to process its own code? And I think that&#8217;s why when people complain about WooCommerce being slow or WordPress being slow, it&#8217;s not the core of WordPress being slow, it&#8217;s all the other extra stuff that you added usually that is causing those kinds of experiences.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And when it comes to choosing a particular plugin that has a particular feature, you obviously have a bunch of different plugins out there, and usually what I tell people is, well, you could hire a developer to make a more informed decision about how the code quality is and how the plugin works and how it performs, but if you don&#8217;t have the resources to hire an expert when you buy these plugins, basically, I guess looking at the plugin&#8217;s reviews and seeing what other people are saying or maybe just trying to get a feel of if you see a plugin that is promoting bundled features that are 30, 40, 50 and they are expanding way beyond whatever the core function of the plugin is, it usually means that they are bloated and they&#8217;re not very specifically oriented to the feature that they were talking about. When we did plugins for other companies here at our agency, some of them wanted to expand to other areas that were not the core focus of their plugin initially.\n\n\n\nSo for a developer, it&#8217;s very hard to keep consistency and keep the code in a shape that is solely focused on the core feature it was intended to be in the first place. So if you start doing other features and start adding other elements to the plugin, for the developer or developer team who is responsible for making it perform well, it&#8217;s going to be very hard for them to just focus on that particular feature, so that is very important. Next on the list is caching. We talked about caching. There are three main techniques of caching I think we can say. There is page caching, which are static versions of pages that are stored usually on the hosting side. We have object caching, which caches database queries so that they do not need to be executed every time somebody gets into a page. And we also have browser caching, which is telling the browser to store certain resources locally and not have them transmitted all over again. Caching is probably one of the hardest things to manage and to talk about because most of the hosting companies already say, we have the best caching solution and technique, just come with your website and host with us, and you&#8217;re going to have the latest caching technology. Then when you dive in and want to control some aspect of the caching, you usually have no idea what they&#8217;re doing behind the scenes and they don&#8217;t tell you what resources and what techniques they&#8217;re using behind the\n\n\n\nscenes. So this is a very important topic. It&#8217;s a very difficult topic as well from a developer&#8217;s perspective because usually people think, oh, we just throw in a bunch of plugins like WPRocket or WP Total Cache or whatever other plugins there are, and the site will be faster, and then you hire a developer and the developer goes in and starts thinking about what is going on. We have all this caching going on, and what do you think about caching? Is it up in earliest as an important part? And also it&#8217;s important to talk about the different pages that we have within WooCommerce. We have the checkout, the cart, we have a catalog, we have the first page, so not all of these pages are treated equally when it comes to caching. Right?\n\n\n\nMike: There&#8217;s also two other little pieces of caching too. There&#8217;s fragment caching, which is rarely used but handy to cache partial pieces of the page and CDN caching, edge caching, I would argue. Yeah, but I know that those are typically not considered under the umbrella in the same way. It&#8217;s not the ones that pop up first in mind, and I think with object caching too, you can also cache the results of API calls. I think we&#8217;ve done that before for clients with really slow calls that need to fetch something from some API that takes a couple of minutes, and instead of doing that every page load, we store it in a transient. But yes, caching is very, very important. I think in terms of the order that we discuss things, the hosting, the theme, plugins, caching, they&#8217;re all really, really the first points of call when it comes to doing audits and making sure things are running well. I think page caching is probably the most important one to get right because everything else will, like you said, the LCP will depend on your time to first byte, which is tremendously improved once you get page caching working, and if you again can leverage edge caching on top of that, you can save usually another 100, 200, 300 milliseconds, which can speed up the other components.\n\n\n\nMarcel: Especially the initial page. The homepage is probably one of the easiest pages to cache, and because it is the point of entry to the website, it just gives you the first impression that we&#8217;re looking for it to be fast and clicky and all of the links that go from the first page to specific products and maybe category pages and all of that, those are very easily cacheable pages, right?\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like the pieces where there aren&#8217;t dynamic components that need to do post requests or fetch something from the database particular to that visitor, that kind of stuff. I certainly encourage people to build their homepages like that so that they&#8217;re very cache-friendly and we don&#8217;t have to worry about users seeing something they&#8217;re not supposed to or those kinds of things compared to if you have product category pages where you have something with facets where you can filter and drill down, you&#8217;re fetching a lot of information straight from the database, which I noticed…\n\n\n\nMarcel: Even with those pages, you can still cache them. Usually filtering options that you have on the website, in the cases where the number of combinations are not in the millions, if they&#8217;re in the hundreds, it&#8217;s not difficult to cache all the different variations when it comes to filtering and having fast filtering is one of the biggest challenges in a WooCommerce store. But if you&#8217;re small and if you have the knowledge and if you can hire a developer to do that, we developers have the resources to cache those filtered pages as well, right?\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think you even built something for, I forgot the name of it, but you built a filter plugin for a client that is actually selling it.\n\n\n\nMarcel: Well, in that particular version we did a little, the client had this awesome idea to just provide the browser with the initial results of the filtered products, but it wasn&#8217;t directly related to the caching part, but here&#8217;s the deal, it benefits greatly from page caching because the information that comes with the page source is already enough for people to feel the filtering to be very fast. It&#8217;s the perceived part that we talked about at the beginning, but it&#8217;s not caching everything, but it&#8217;s caching just enough for people to think this is super fast. And yes, that was one of the techniques that they used, but even if you don&#8217;t have that, even if you have a page caching system where the first customer goes in is the one who generates the HTML for that particular cache, and then the second one that does the same, the same filtering options will be served the cached version of it, and that&#8217;s…\n\n\n\nMike: Possible, and I think with filtering too, you get, so you can do both page caching and basically object caching is what I would call it when you are storing them in the database or if you can cache the query string, get parameters from, if that&#8217;s how the facet plugin is working, then you get to leverage Varnish or Nginx or whatever other caching plugin you might be using, and that&#8217;s one cool way to do it. But then if that isn&#8217;t cached, it fetches it straight from a transient inside the database is the next best thing. So I know some people don&#8217;t like having layers of cache because you can have stale cache and you don&#8217;t want the user to be delivered expired data, but I think if you get things configured correctly, everything helps boost one another. It&#8217;s the same thing with page caching locally on the host and page cache on the edge with Cloudflare or a similar solution.\n\n\n\nIt&#8217;s always better if Cloudflare wants to cache your homepage that when you deliver the page to Cloudflare, if you can give a cached version that&#8217;s way faster than taking two to three seconds for time to first byte to then deliver it to Cloudflare. So I think it&#8217;s important to consider these aspects in the performance strategy and get things, there might be some little fine-tuning or issues to iron out as you&#8217;re rolling out caching, and a lot of planning is usually a good idea with clients asking them what&#8217;s the typical user journey? What different types of users and avatars do we have on the site? How do they navigate through the site so that we can make sure we&#8217;re considering all types of users? Also for employees, the customers are the ones giving money to the WooCommerce store, but the people who need to work on the backend processing orders, support tickets, that kind of stuff, I think it&#8217;s important they have a good experience as well, and you won&#8217;t be able to use page caching as much for them, but there&#8217;s certain object caching and similar techniques you can use for their tasks daily that can make it a better experience.\n\n\n\nThey get more productive, store owners are happier and all of that stuff.\n\n\n\nMarcel: And then you have the cart pages and the checkout pages, which obviously cannot be page cached. Maybe parts of it can be object cached because there are elements in there that are repetitive for all customers, but then it goes back to what we were saying before about hosting, right? For those pages, you need to rely on the quality of the CPU, memory, SSD and all of that to render those pages fast enough because it&#8217;s not just enough to do a fast homepage and category pages and product pages. If people get to the cart and then to the checkout and the page takes 10 seconds to load, you just basically lost the client right there.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it&#8217;s something to really get nailed down. I think it&#8217;s okay for the final checkout when people press after they&#8217;ve added their billing details, credit card number, all of that, pressing that final button, it needs to communicate with the payment gateway or API calls back and forth. I think people accept and understand that that could take a bit of time…\n\n\n\nMarcel: Like that everywhere in every single site,\n\n\n\nMike: But getting to that stage shouldn&#8217;t take long. I think especially with mobile browsers nowadays, you can autofill pretty much all of the fields and WooCommerce is so popular and widespread that unless you&#8217;ve done a lot of customization to the fields or whatever like the Google Chrome Safari or whatever, I think we&#8217;ll be able to figure it out. We can&#8217;t cache those pages, but it&#8217;s still, so maybe you might be able to do some fragment caching if you still have the menu in there and it&#8217;s a mega menu, super complicated. We could cache that, so that&#8217;s not taking up unnecessary time. I don&#8217;t think that many users are going into the menu at…\n\n\n\nMarcel: That point. Yeah,\n\n\n\nMike: Or you might have a footer, I&#8217;ve seen this before. We have a footer widget or some piece that is contacting Instagram or doing something else blocking the right page and the user isn&#8217;t even going to see it, but it still is preventing the checkout flow from progressing…\n\n\n\nMarcel: Quickly. Yeah, I was going to take the last minutes that we have for this episode. Just to sum quickly, so we have chosen our hosting company, we have chosen our theme and we have a set of plugins that we chose. We learned about caching and what the different caching versions are, and now we&#8217;ve installed everything and we run the website and it&#8217;s slow. The website is not moving at all. Then we need to talk about, and we&#8217;ve already talked about core web vitals, so we have different diagnosing tools that we can use to understand why the site is slow, because if we followed all of the advice that we&#8217;re given, we&#8217;ve chosen the right hosting, the theme is not big, the number of plugins is reduced, and we only have the ones that we really need. We&#8217;ve tweaked, we spent hours tweaking the caching and the site is still taking two seconds to load the homepage. For example, core web vitals are the first thing to go to and to measure. How do you do that? How do you measure core web vitals?\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, there&#8217;s definitely using a front-end tool like Google PageSpeed Insights, GTmetrix, WebPageTest. We&#8217;ve seen those at the perf now\n\n\n\nconference…\n\n\n\nMarcel: PerfNow Conference. Yes,\n\n\n\nMike: They all run some piece of Lighthouse nowadays. You used to have to use Google PageSpeed Insights, it&#8217;s called I think something else now. Anyway, web.dev/measure. So they all just have different ways of running Lighthouse and then presenting the data to you differently. So I like WebPageTest the most. It&#8217;s the geekiest, so it could be quite overwhelming for people. I think GTmetrix does a really good job of presenting the data in a more digestible way that isn&#8217;t overwhelming and it gives you a good amount of insights and Google PageSpeed. I think because it&#8217;s the official Google tool, people like to use that and it feels like it&#8217;s more credible, trustworthy…\n\n\n\nMarcel: And it will tell you also about SEO because you want to appear on Google results and at the top eventually, and that particular tool will give you more information about that specific part of the performance.\n\n\n\nMike: It tells you if you&#8217;re failing the core web vitals for that particular page or for your entire website, depending on how much traffic you&#8217;re getting. I believe WebPageTest does that as well. It has the crux Google Chrome user experience metrics, but that&#8217;s only Chrome data, which is important to remember. It&#8217;s the same thing on PageSpeed Insights that it&#8217;s not collecting that information from other non-Google Chrome browsers. But yeah, those tools, I mean we can do a whole workshop on those. There&#8217;s a bunch of courses on them, so advanced and rich in what they can do. But yeah, that&#8217;s why a lot of people, they come to me and they say, Hey, I ran this and it&#8217;s slow. I don&#8217;t understand this report. Sometimes those reports are oversimplified where there&#8217;s a lot of pieces that they miss or that they say, oh, the LCP element is this, and it&#8217;s like, well, why is it taking eight seconds? Usually it&#8217;s JavaScript related or something else, but it could also be the time the first byte was six seconds, so that takes someone who has experience and to decrypt, I think, or understand things more.\n\n\n\nMarcel: Do you have a favorite tool?\n\n\n\nMike: Well, no, it&#8217;s basically just the ones that you talked about, but what I think is the most important one, I don&#8217;t want to say there&#8217;s a most important one, but I do feel like the Google&#8217;s tool is a good starting point for people to understand a little bit what&#8217;s going on because they also give, I don&#8217;t want to say simple instructions on how to fix those because they&#8217;re not, probably not simple when they say to reduce image sizes or when they say to lazy load some scripts and all of that stuff. Usually as a store owner, you don&#8217;t really know what to do, and even as a developer, you suddenly think, oh, so if I just lazy load all this stuff and I just delay all the loading of the JavaScript, that will fix it. But then I start thinking, oh, how do I determine which ones are not necessary and how do I determine which ones the clients need if they change something on a homepage? Suddenly it&#8217;s the script that does this funny animation or has this slider going on. So it&#8217;s very hard for people to understand, and I think Google&#8217;s tool is the one that gives you a starting point to start figuring out what&#8217;s going on. They do this coloring with red, yellow, and I think that&#8217;s all the colors, the important colors they use to pinpoint all the most important parts of it, and if you manage to figure out some of those points, you&#8217;re already in a good starting point and then you can use all the other tools you mentioned to just fine tune specific parts of it. But once you have the results and once you have some indications on the website specifically what&#8217;s going on, being it a section of the website, an image problem, JavaScript problem, whatever it is, then it basically comes back to the theme setup and how to properly set up the theme.\n\n\n\nUsually if you go with an existing theme, there are options that you can turn on and off and by those on and off, you will then obviously maybe not load some of the scripts if the theme is done properly, if they have taken care of just not loading scripts they don&#8217;t need for that particular page. This is where page builders come in very handy, and that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m a huge, huge fan of Gutenberg and all the Gutenberg experience because it&#8217;s very performance-focused. But then again, you will optimize the heavy scripts, the styles, you will disable some theme features. As we talked about, mobile performance is also something that you will fine tune and then you suddenly… Let&#8217;s move on to the story and end with this. Then suddenly you realize, okay, I&#8217;ve fixed all of these problems. I have a faster website. I have fixed most of the problems they were told to me to fix. How do you keep record of the website&#8217;s performance and how do you go about making sure that this first initial tweak that you did is going to keep up with your website and you&#8217;re going to maintain all of that performance throughout the whole existence of the website? What is your tip as a final tip on how developers or clients can diagnose the performance throughout the whole time that it exists?\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, I&#8217;ll make it short. I think it&#8217;s important to focus on both lab tests, which are these synthetic tests you run through GTmetrix and other tools, and then also look at the real user metrics, which is what actual people are experiencing, and then diagnose as much as you can using those tools and having some kind of performance budget in mind in terms of what kind of space do we have for, what are we going to allow for the LCP to be? What are we going to allow for the time to first byte to be? How much JavaScript, what&#8217;s the overall payload for the entire front page that we&#8217;re going to allow to be not larger than 500 kilobytes, for example, would be great. Sometimes it might be way larger and sort of tracking with a spreadsheet or screenshots or whatever you can, and sort of dating those to make sure that things are staying within your thresholds that you&#8217;ve defined, I think is a good starting point unless you have a whole performance team dedicated.\n\n\n\nWhat we&#8217;ve seen at the conference, these big companies like IKEA, they have dedicated performance teams whose job is to make sure everything is running smoothly and they interface with the departments. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s realistic for a lot of companies, but we can still take some of the ideas and sort of track things. I think that most importantly is don&#8217;t just assume that once you&#8217;ve made a change performance-wise or whatever, that it&#8217;s going to persist indefinitely forever because the website is usually a living, breathing thing. You do updates to the plugins, etc. People tend to add more features and sometimes a plugin update can introduce a new performance bottleneck and it&#8217;s important to match that…\n\n\n\nMarcel: Or changing the homepage, or you have a different hero section, you have something different in your homepage and you suddenly think it looks way better. I&#8217;m going to sell a lot more, and then it suddenly affects one of the key metrics, for example.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, exactly. If someone has hired a designer to implement something and you&#8217;re like, oh, this is beautiful, but the page has increased to five megabytes and all your metrics are way, way off, now aesthetically it might be better, but you&#8217;re going to end up losing money. In my experience, so I think having it in your workflow, whatever size company you are, to do some kind of testing to make sure that the performance is still good after you&#8217;ve made major changes or even minor ones. I think it&#8217;s important because people, business owners, will always check the money side of things and when they notice all of a sudden that conversion rates are down or have been trending downwards over a few months and they feel it in their wallet, that&#8217;s a very frustrating position to be in and it&#8217;s nicer to catch…\n\n\n\nMarcel: And they usually probably think, oh, it&#8217;s something with my marketing or advertisement, or there&#8217;s something with the products or reviews and they usually don&#8217;t think it might be the performance part of the website that is damaging their sales.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, exactly.\n\n\n\nMarcel: So regularly monitoring the site performance is our advice as a last piece of advice for today&#8217;s episode. New Relic, it doesn&#8217;t store information that much, but it is a tool that you can use to just analyze regularly your website&#8217;s performance. Google PageSpeed Insights is something that some of the hosting providers have embedded in their system and some of them can also give you some notifications if you reach certain values that are not recommended. And I think GTmetrix, I&#8217;m not sure, is the one that you can also buy a subscription and have it regularly measure and analyze your website and send you insights to your inbox for you to be aware of…\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah, GTmetrix actually even lets you, if you pay them a subscription, you can have it alert you if certain metrics have exceeded. If you say, I don&#8217;t want LCP larger than 2.5 for your product category page or whatever, it will actually send you an email and alert. And that goes back to the proactivity aspect, right? Where it&#8217;s better to find that out and do something about it immediately rather than finding out three months later. And revenue is down, morale…\n\n\n\nMarcel: And it also provides actionable recommendations as well. All right, so we talked about a bunch of stuff today. CDN, database optimization, image optimization, lazy loading, plugins, themes, performance key metrics, all of that could be potentially a bunch of other episodes that we&#8217;ll talk about. And actually it would be cool to bring somebody else as a guest to talk specifically about some of these key aspects. As a last recommendation, I think we can also talk about the PerfNow conference that happens in November in Amsterdam. You&#8217;ve been going to the conference before and you&#8217;ve recommended that conference to me last year and I went there last year with you. And\n\n\n\nalthough within WordPress and WooCommerce we&#8217;re only used to go to the WordCamps and the different versions of those, PerfNow has… I haven&#8217;t seen the word WordPress ever in their website, but it has so much to do with our work and it has so much to do with the development work we do for WordPress. So I definitely recommend people checking out PerfNow. It happens in Amsterdam in November, it&#8217;s a conference that is not as big as any WordCamp, Europe or US or Asia that we&#8217;ve seen. And you get out of there with the will to just go back to your clients and say, hey, I&#8217;m going to make your website a lot faster now because I understand performance there. Would you recommend PerfNow as well?\n\n\n\nMike: Oh, absolutely. The people who build the tools that we use and they&#8217;re pioneers of front-end performance and are sharing these incredible stories, a lot of them work for big companies and they give you real case studies where we&#8217;re talking millions of dollars at stake from making certain changes. And it always reinvigorates me every time I go where I&#8217;m like, oh, I need to build this now and we&#8217;re going to introduce this to clients and make everything better for them. If you&#8217;re a real performance enthusiast and love this stuff. I haven&#8217;t found a conference that&#8217;s more exhilarating than PerfNow and the people are super friendly. The vibe is really, really cool there. When we were there last…\n\n\n\nMarcel: And just being able to talk to the people who built all of these tools, they actually have something to say about what&#8217;s coming next and give advice on the evolution of all of this. So it seems also like you go to that conference and you&#8217;re in the future for the next one or two years and see what&#8217;s going to happen, what&#8217;s important. And the fact that you as a developer can offer that to the client and make money out of it and sort of turn yourself into their magician and do stuff that nobody else can do, that is super important.\n\n\n\nMike: Yeah. It sets you apart for sure.\n\n\n\nMarcel: All right, this is it for our episode. Thank you so much for listening in and I hope to meet you guys in the next one.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Woo DevChat, Marcel and Mike explore the critical importance of website performance for WooCommerce stores. They discuss key factors such as hosting quality, theme selection, plugin management, and caching techniques, offering practical advice for optimizing site speed and user experience. \n\n\n\nThe conversation also highlights the significance of core web vitals and the tools available for diagnosing and maintaining website performance. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nImportance of Website Performance: Fast website speed is crucial for first impressions, user satisfaction, and conversion rates. It directly impacts SEO and profitability.\n\n\n\nHosting Quality: Choosing the right hosting provider with adequate resources, good data centers in the target region, and features like CDN integration and application performance monitoring is foundational for optimal website performance.\n\n\n\nTheme Selection: Custom themes often outperform commercial themes in terms of speed and performance. It&#8217;s essential to control the scripts and features loaded to maintain a fast and efficient site.\n\n\n\nPlugin Management: Limit the number of plugins and ensure the ones you use are high-quality and necessary. Multiple plugins performing the same function can slow down the site.\n\n\n\nCaching Techniques: Implementing effective caching strategies, including page caching, object caching, and browser caching, can significantly improve website speed.\n\n\n\nCore Web Vitals: Regularly monitor key metrics such as Largest Contentful Paint (LCP), Time to First Byte (TTFB), and Interaction to Next Paint (INP) to ensure optimal performance.\n\n\n\nPerceived Performance: Techniques like lazy loading and preloading critical resources can enhance the perceived speed of the website, improving the user experience.\n\n\n\nRegular Performance Monitoring: Continuously track and test website performance using tools like Google PageSpeed Insights, GTmetrix, and WebPageTest to maintain and improve site speed over time.\n\n\n\nExpert Insights: Consulting with professionals and attending conferences like PerfNow can provide valuable insights and strategies for maintaining a high-performing WooCommerce store.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:30:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:35;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9:\"Matt: 6.6\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=117442\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"https://ma.tt/2024/07/6-6/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:643:\"A <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/dorsey/\">nice new WordPress 6.6 is out</a>, our 50th release, on the same day people are getting hit with <a href=\"https://x.com/nicocerdeira/status/1812917905501364424\">huge bills from Webflow</a>. I really enjoy working in Open Source. There is no more customer-centric license. There&#8217;s some really fun stuff cooking, too, I can&#8217;t wait to show y&#8217;all.\n\n\n\n50 releases&#8230; wow. No matter what happens in the world, we&#8217;re just going to keep cranking. Three times a year. Relentlessly. A little better each time. Don&#8217;t believe me, just watch.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 17 Jul 2024 06:36:41 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey”\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17517\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:42:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/dorsey/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62955:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"683\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/wordpress.org/news/files/2024/07/Release-Edition-Inline-Image-1.png?resize=1024%2C683&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-17529\" />\n\n\n\nSay hello to WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey,” named after the legendary American Big Band leader, Tommy Dorsey. Renowned for his smooth-toned trombone and compositions, Dorsey’s music captivated audiences with its emotional depth and vibrant energy.\n\n\n\nLet your heart swing, sing, and sway to the deep brass notes of&nbsp;<a href=\"https://open.spotify.com/playlist/37i9dQZF1DZ06evO2TT3Ge?si=d9872e46371c4ed7\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Dorsey’s Big Band sound</a>&nbsp;as you explore the new features and enhancements of WordPress 6.6.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Hello, 6.6!</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 delivers on the promise of a better web by bringing style, finesse, and a suite of creative possibilities to your site-building experience. This version helps you do more with ease, putting enhanced tools at your fingertips and giving you unprecedented power behind the scenes. You will find more ways to create beautiful, coherent design elements across your site, a new layout for quick page previews in the Site Editor, and the safety of automatic rollbacks for failed plugin auto-updates—among many other highlights.\n\n\n\nIn addition to the new features, “Dorsey” continues to deliver the performance and accessibility gains you can expect from every WordPress release. Explore what WordPress 6.6 has to offer and get ready to let its features take your sites to new heights.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6.zip\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Download WordPress 6.6 “Dorsey”</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s inside</h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Add more design options to block themes</h3>\n\n\n\nCreate color or font sets to multiply design combinations across one theme. These sets offer more contained design possibilities, allowing visual variety within the site’s broader styling guidelines.\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXc7Mg7QzTwFiR7NDQLj6p5m4eddq6MtscZYzTh5QeGqB2sLP3T_t2Io2cqA5QuSixyze9ZVWqsDF9ZD7VscWn0TWA6lCG0OgZ4o5Ar_8MgQta8B3vu3VzJQHYREY9NxUb9J8e3BFESmcnbRwg7g6GuFfguU?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Simplify your workflow with a new layout for pages in the Site Editor</h3>\n\n\n\nSee all of your pages and a preview of any selected page with the new side-by-side layout in the Site Editor.\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXfdAh-2XaS_6bdw8YcDZMRpkT0O6oWezPzZT3FzKjoWcxhM4ofivJli8eDRs1pO60wJ7F6YjQblSDop_O8MXQKwRlb_-g8CsFPPVb7hY3vEgIBPLb3tDyrvZZhSZL6Zp-ntXQdB2-ixFVoWaY-Empv3hZQ-?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Auto-update your plugins with peace of mind</h3>\n\n\n\nEnjoy the convenience of plugin auto-updates with the safety of rollbacks if anything goes wrong—offering your site a new level of security, enhanced functionality as it becomes available, and almost no time or bandwidth from you to make it happen.\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXc3cOWzosH9yiEDJrkmndXXX4QShj-vVMJJslAlgxCT74ugbYJuRPszdUi2rrCt8fnmZm1fTdJ3DTkKxYh5ImN4b6lvyBI3bsf5nvzWSBtexeldhPGyjYZM4Me1eUzfq9bAzlzlwxVqI5Hf_i9y1NGvKEdc?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Customize content in synced patterns</h3>\n\n\n\nMake content changes in each instance of a synced pattern while maintaining a consistent style across them. Set these overrides for Heading, Paragraph, Button, and Image blocks when placed in a synced pattern.\n\n\n\n<img src=\"https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/docsz/AD_4nXdH_at4lSW3-Slznfn7HTOEp11xKp889JaLIj-JY5zATJbqZhNPM5MIVZzhn7J2gGhqRbkIzjGMhkFzfQFXfLpxoXu2MXDcPMCXaACaucFHph4dMrd8jHCqFckpk0HtJhEI_cWHTRDR0343_Ut06sgNgaOw?key=EV-htfbHG-kjLl6r6s-uKA\" alt=\"\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Performance</h3>\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 features important updates like removing redundant WP_Theme_JSON calls, disabling autoload for large options, and eliminating unnecessary polyfill dependencies. Other highlights include lazy-loading post embeds, a new <code>data-wp-on-async</code> directive, and templates in the editor that load approximately 35% faster overall.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Accessibility</h3>\n\n\n\nThis release includes 58 accessibility fixes and enhancements. These focus on foundational aspects of the WordPress experience, particularly the data views component powering the new site editing experience and areas like the Inserter, which provide a key way of interacting with blocks and patterns.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">And much more</h3>\n\n\n\nVisit the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">feature showcase</a> for a full overview of all the new features and enhancements in WordPress 6.6.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons is-layout-flex wp-block-buttons-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\" href=\"https://wordpress.org/download/releases/6-6/\">Check out what&#8217;s new</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Learn more about WordPress 6.6</h2>\n\n\n\nExplore <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn WordPress</a> for quick how-to videos, <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/social-learning/\">online workshops</a>, and other free resources to level up your WordPress knowledge and skills.\n\n\n\nThe <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a> contains detailed technical information and <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes-6-6/\">developer notes</a> to help you build with WordPress and get the most out of this release. Don’t forget to subscribe to the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/\">Developer Blog</a> for updates, tutorials, and other helpful WordPress content for developers.\n\n\n\nFor information about installation, file changes, fixes, and other updates, read the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/documentation/wordpress-version/version-6-6/\">6.6 release notes</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The 6.6 release squad</h2>\n\n\n\nEvery release comes to you from a dedicated team of enthusiastic contributors who help keep things on track and moving smoothly. The team that has led 6.6 is a cross-functional group of contributors who are always ready to champion ideas, remove blockers, and resolve issues.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Release Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Release Coordinator: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Tech Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jb Audras</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Tech Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella van Durpe</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vcanales/\">Vicente Canales</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Core Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Editor Triage Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\">Damon Cook</a>&nbsp;</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Documentation Leads: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\">JuanMa Garrido</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdy68/\">Jenny Dupuy</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josepmoran/\">Josep Morán</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Marketing &amp; Communications Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Test Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Design Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Performance Lead: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\">Adam Silverstein</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Thank you, contributors</h2>\n\n\n\nThe mission of WordPress is to <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/about/\">democratize publishing</a> and embody the <a href=\"https://opensource.org/osd-annotated\">freedoms that come with open source</a>. A global and diverse community of people collaborating to strengthen the software supports this effort.\n\n\n\nWordPress 6.6 reflects the tireless efforts and passion of more than 630 contributors in at least 51 countries. This release also welcomed over 150 first-time contributors!\n\n\n\nTheir collaboration delivered more than 1,900 enhancements and fixes, ensuring a stable release for all—a testament to the power and capability of the WordPress open source community.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benniledl/\">!Benni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/1naveengiri/\">1naveengiri</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorbin/\">Aaron Jorbin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aaronrobertshaw/\">Aaron Robertshaw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aatanasov/\">aatanasov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abditsori/\">abditsori</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpalani/\">Abdulrahman Alani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webcommsat/\">Abha Thakor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abhi3315/\">abhi3315</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abhijitrakas/\">Abhijit Rakas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/abitofmind/\">abitofmind</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kawauso/\">Adam Harley (Kawauso)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamsilverstein/\">Adam Silverstein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adamhorne/\">adamhorne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adeltahri/\">Adel Tahri</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/adrianduffell/\">adrianduffell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aduth/\">aduth</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aezazshekh/\">Aezaz Shekh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaion07/\">Ahmed Kabir Chaion</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajfleming/\">ajfleming</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajitbohra/\">Ajit Bohra</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajithrn/\">Ajith R N</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akashdhawade/\">Akash Dhawade</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wildworks/\">Aki Hamano</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/atachibana/\">Akira Tachibana</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akmelias/\">akmelias</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alanfuller/\">Alan Fuller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aljullu/\">Albert Juh&#233; Lluveras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alesflex/\">alesflex</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/acicovic/\">Alex Cicovic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xknown/\">Alex Concha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cawa-93/\">Alex Kozack</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ajlende/\">Alex Lende</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexstine/\">Alex Stine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexandrebuffet/\">Alexandre Buffet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alexminza/\">alexminza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/firewatch/\">allilevine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrfoxtalbot/\">Alvaro G&#243;mez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amanias1977/\">amanias1977</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alh0319/\">Amber Hinds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amirthepiper/\">Amir Abbas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amisiewicz/\">amisiewicz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amitraj2203/\">Amit Raj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anamarijapapic/\">Anamarija Papić</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anlino/\">Anders Nor&#233;n</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andr3ribeiro/\">Andre Ribeiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afercia/\">Andrea Fercia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/awetz583/\">Andrea Roenning</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andraganescu/\">Andrei Draganescu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/euthelup/\">Andrei Lupu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewhayward/\">Andrew Hayward</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/l1nuxjedi/\">Andrew Hutchings</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nacin/\">Andrew Nacin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/\">Andrew Ozz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/andrewserong/\">Andrew Serong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oandregal/\">André Maneiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/afragen/\">Andy Fragen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aneeshd16/\">Aneesh Devasthale</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelasjin/\">Angela Jin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/angelaromana/\">Angela R.L</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/anilvaza/\">Anil Vaza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankit-k-gupta/\">Ankit K Gupta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ankitmaru/\">Ankit Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annezazu/\">Anne McCarthy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antpb/\">Anthony Burchell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ant1busted/\">Antoine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/antonvlasenko/\">Anton Vlasenko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aristath/\">Ari Stathopoulos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perezcarreno/\">Armando J.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ambrosiawt/\">Art Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artemiosans/\">Artemio Morales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arthur791004/\">Arthur Chu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/artpi/\">Artur Piszek</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dextorlobo/\">Arun Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ideag/\">Arunas Liuiza</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/asheshmagar/\">Ashesh Magar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imasikur22/\">Asiqur Rahman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mohonchandra/\">Asish Chandra Mohon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aslamdoctor/\">Aslam Doctor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alisongodar/\">asmittle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/aurooba/\">Aurooba Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ayeshrajans/\">Ayesh Karunaratne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beryldlg/\">B&#233;ryl de La Grandi&#232;re</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/balub/\">Balu B</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bangank36/\">bangank36</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bartkalisz/\">Bart Kalisz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beafialho/\">Beatriz Fialho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/beaulebens/\">Beau Lebens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/scruffian/\">Ben Dwyer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benlk/\">Ben Keith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/britner/\">Ben Ritner - Kadence WP</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamingosset/\">Benjamin Gosset</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjaminpick/\">Benjamin Pick</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\">Benjamin Zekavica</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjpw/\">benjpw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bernhard-reiter/\">bernhard-reiter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bph/\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bissy/\">bissy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oldrup/\">Bjarne Oldrup</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blackbam/\">Blackbam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blockify/\">Blockify</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blogography/\">blogography</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bnewboldbsky/\">bnewboldbsky</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bnjunge/\">bnjunge</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjorsch/\">Brad Jorsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgoewert/\">Brennan Goewert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ironprogrammer/\">Brian Alexander</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bacoords/\">Brian Coords</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgardner/\">Brian Gardner</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgosnell/\">Brian Gosnell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/masteradhoc/\">Brian Haas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bridgetwillard/\">Bridget Willard</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bridgetwes/\">bridgetwes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/brookemk/\">Brooke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/freibergergarcia/\">Bruno Freiberger Garcia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/btpub/\">Bruno Tritsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/burnuser/\">burnuser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/icaleb/\">Caleb Burks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stringpiggy/\">Candy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbravobernal/\">Carlos Bravo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/carlosgprim/\">Carlos G. P.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poena/\">Carolina Nymark</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbirdsong/\">cbirdsong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shireling/\">Chad Chadbourne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/caercam/\">Charlie Merland</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbringmann/\">Chloe Bringmann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chouby/\">Chouby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jazzs3quence/\">Chris Reynolds</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chrisdotdotdot/\">chrisdotdotdot</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/apermo/\">Christoph Daum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/christopherplus/\">Christopher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/butterflymedia/\">Ciprian</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarktbt/\">Clark</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/costdev/\">Colin Stewart</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colind/\">ColinD</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colle/\">colle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/comecaramelos/\">comecaramelos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cotobago/\">Constantine Vasilyev</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cookiesfordevo/\">CookiesForDevo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/coreymckrill/\">Corey McKrill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/courane01/\">Courtney Robertson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/craigfrancis/\">Craig Francis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/crazytonyli/\">crazytonyli</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cwhitmore/\">Cullen Whitmore</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/curdin/\">Curdin Krummenacher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cyrus11/\">cyrus11</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daledupreez/\">Dale du Preez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful-tones/\">Damon Cook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/colorful tones/\">Damon Cook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansoschin/\">Dan Soschin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dansully/\">Dan Sullivan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daniguardiola/\">Dani Guardiola</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talldanwp/\">Daniel Richards</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darerodz/\">darerodz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nerrad/\">Darren Ethier (nerrad)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/darshitrajyaguru97/\">Darshit Rajyaguru</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dav4/\">dav4</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davecpage/\">Dave Page</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diggeddy/\">David</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidakennedy/\">David A. Kennedy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\">David Baumwald</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbinda/\">David Biňovec</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidabowman/\">David Bowman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dpcalhoun/\">David Calhoun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dlh/\">David Herrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dkjensen/\">David Jensen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justlevine/\">David Levine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/daviedr/\">David Rozando</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/get_dave/\">David Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davideferre/\">davideferre</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rxnlabs/\">De\'Yont&#233; W.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsas/\">Dean Sas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deeppatel8950/\">Deep Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/deepakvijayan/\">Deepak Vijayan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dingo_d/\">Denis Žoljom</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmsnell/\">Dennis Snell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/derekblank/\">Derek Blank</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dsmart/\">Derek Smart</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/designsimply/\">designsimply</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dernin/\">Devin Curtis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dharm1025/\">Dharmesh Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhrumilk/\">Dhrumil Kumbhani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruval04/\">Dhruval Shah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruvang21/\">dhruvang21</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dhruvkb/\">dhruvkb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diedeexterkate/\">DiedeExterkate</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/diegosomar/\">diegosomar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dilipbheda/\">Dilip Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32/\">Dion Hulse</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itsjustdj/\">DJ</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/djzone/\">DjZoNe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dmpinder/\">dmpinder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ocean90/\">Dominik Schilling</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drewapicture/\">Drew Jaynes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/drrxbracho/\">drrxbracho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/elrae/\">Earle Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/talksina/\">Elena Brescacin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\">Ella van Durpe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clarkeemily/\">Emily Clarke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manooweb/\">Emmanuel Hesry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enej/\">Enej Bajgorić</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/garridinsi/\">Eneko Garrido</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enodekciw/\">enodekciw</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lopo/\">Enrico Battocchi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/enricosorcinelli/\">Enrico Sorcinelli</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/annubis/\">Eric-Oliver M&#228;chler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kebbet/\">Erik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/erikiva/\">erikiva</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/estelaris/\">Estela Rueda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/evanltd/\">evanltd</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fabiankaegy/\">Fabian Kägy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gaambo/\">Fabian Todt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faisal03/\">Faisal Alvi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fanly/\">Fanly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamfarhan09/\">Farhan Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flixos90/\">Felix Arntz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/firoz2456/\">Firoz Sabaliya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flabernardez/\">Flavia Bern&#225;rdez Rodr&#237;guez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mista-flo/\">Florian TIAR</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/f-j-kaiser/\">Franz Josef Kaiser</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fushar/\">fushar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lunule/\">Gabor Lippert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gajendrasingh/\">Gajendra Singh</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/galbaras/\">Gal Baras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gwallace87/\">Gale Wallace</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/voldemortensen/\">Garth Mortensen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/garyj/\">Gary Jones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mamaduka/\">George Mamadashvili</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/georgestephanis/\">George Stephanis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/geriux/\">Gerardo Pacheco</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gierand/\">gierand</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/glendaviesnz/\">Glen Davies</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/blepoxp/\">Glenn Ansley</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/grantmkin/\">Grant M. Kinney</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gziolo/\">Greg Ziółkowski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wido/\">Guido Scialfa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\">H&#233;ctor Prieto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hakre/\">hakre</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hanneslsm/\">hanneslsm</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hage/\">Hans-Gerd Gerhards</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/haritpanchal/\">Harit Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/harshgajipara/\">Harsh Gajipara</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hazdiego/\">Haz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/heinperu/\">heinvv</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/helgatheviking/\">HelgaTheViking</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hinnerk/\">Hinnerk Altenburg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hbhalodia/\">Hit Bhalodia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hitendra-chopda/\">Hitendra Chopda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/humanify/\">humanify</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huubl/\">huubl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/huzaifaalmesbah/\">Huzaifa Al Mesbah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iamthomasbishop/\">iamthomasbishop</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ianbelanger/\">Ian Belanger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ignatiusjeroe/\">ignatiusjeroe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imranhasanraaz/\">Imran</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/inwerpsel/\">inwerpsel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ipstenu/\">Ipstenu (Mika Epstein)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/isabel_brison/\">Isabel Brison</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itpathsolutions/\">IT Path Solutions</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ivanottinger/\">ivanottinger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/weijland/\">Jaap Weijland</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpstevens/\">Jack Stevens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jaclync/\">jaclync</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/smithjw1/\">Jacob Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jameskoster/\">James Koster</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jwgoedert/\">James Wesley Goedert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/xhemals/\">Jamie Speller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/janboddez/\">Jan Boddez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jtolleouw/\">Jansen Tolle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/janthiel/\">janthiel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnajdr/\">Jarda Snajdr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/szopserwis/\">Jarek Mazurczak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jarekmorawski/\">jarekmorawski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpolakovic/\">Jaroslav \"Dero\" Polakovic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jason_the_adams/\">Jason Adams</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbking/\">Jason Crist</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jsnjohnston/\">Jason Johnston</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madtownlems/\">Jason LeMahieu (MadtownLems)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiercasares/\">Javier Casares</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jayanthparthsarathy/\">jayanthparthsarathy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jbinda/\">jbinda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdekhtiar/\">jdekhtiar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\">Jean-Baptiste Audras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krokodok/\">Jeff Chi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jffng/\">Jeff Ong</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\">Jeffrey Paul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffr0/\">Jeffro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeflopodev/\">jeflopo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jdy68/\">Jenny Dupuy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeremyfelt/\">Jeremy Felt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeherve/\">Jeremy Herve</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jpry/\">Jeremy Pry</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeryj/\">Jerry Jones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amieiro/\">Jes&#250;s Amieiro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/onmauitime/\">Jess</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luminuu/\">Jessica Lyschik</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jhned/\">jhned</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jigar-bhanushali/\">Jigar Bhanushali</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jigar9998/\">Jigar Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jipmoors/\">Jip Moors</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jivedig/\">JiveDig</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joedolson/\">Joe Dolson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joemcgill/\">Joe McGill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/joen/\">Joen Asmussen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/timse201/\">Johannes J&#252;lg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnbillion/\">John Blackbourn</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnillo/\">John Espiritu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnny5/\">John Godley</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bitmachina/\">John Hooks</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnjamesjacoby/\">John James Jacoby</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jonsurrell/\">Jon Surrell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jon092/\">jon092</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jaruzek/\">Jonathan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psykro/\">Jonathan Bossenger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\">Jonathan Desrosiers</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/n2erjo00/\">Joni Erkkil&#228;</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/spacedmonkey/\">Jonny Harris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jordesign/\">jordesign</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jorgefilipecosta/\">Jorge Costa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josevarghese/\">Jose Varghese</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josepmoran/\">Josep Morán</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josephscott/\">Joseph Scott</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/verygoode/\">Joshua Goode</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jossnaz/\">Jossnaz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanfra/\">Juan Aldasoro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juanmaguitar/\">JuanMa Garrido</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jules/\">jules</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juliemoynat/\">Julie Moynat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jrf/\">Juliette Reinders Folmer</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/juliobox/\">Julio Potier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/greenshady/\">Justin Tadlock</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/justnorris/\">justnorris</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jyolsna/\">Jyolsna J E</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kadamwhite/\">K. Adam White</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kafleg/\">KafleG</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevin940726/\">Kai Hao</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kajalgohel/\">Kajal Gohel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kamran8176/\">kamran8176</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kapilpaul/\">Kapil Paul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karlijnbk/\">Karlijn Bok</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/karolmanijak/\">Karol Manijak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thekt12/\">Karthik Thayyil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zoonini/\">Kathryn Presner</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/keithdevon/\">keithdevon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kellenmace/\">Kellen Mace</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryelle/\">Kelly Choyce-Dwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/keoshi/\">keoshi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kevinwhoffman/\">Kevin Hoffman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/khokansardar/\">Khokan Sardar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/killua99/\">killua99</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kirasong/\">Kira Schroder</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kitchin/\">kitchin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ixkaito/\">Kite</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kjellr/\">Kjell Reigstad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kkmuffme/\">kkmuffme</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kmvan/\">kmvan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/knutsp/\">Knut Sparhell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kovshenin/\">Konstantin Kovshenin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/koodii/\">koodii</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kristastevens/\">kristastevens</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kristenfisher427/\">kristenfisher427</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupajnanda/\">Krupa Nanda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupalpanchal/\">Krupal Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kushang78/\">Kushang Tailor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kyleak/\">kyleak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mlaetitia/\">Lae</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lanresmith/\">Lanre Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lgersman/\">Lars Gersmann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/newyorkerlaura/\">Laura Byrne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurelfulford/\">laurelfulford</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oncecoupled/\">Lauren</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/laurlittle/\">Lauren Stein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wplmillet/\">Laurent MILLET</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peexy/\">Laurent Naudier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leemon/\">leemon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/0mirka00/\">Lena Morita</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/leonidasmilossis/\">Leonidas Milosis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lgladdy/\">Liam Gladdy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rudlinkon/\">Linkon Miyan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/liviopv/\">liviopv</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/louiswol94/\">Louis Wolmarans</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/thelovekesh/\">Lovekesh Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luan-ramos/\">Luan Ramos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luboslives/\">luboslives</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/crixu/\">Lucas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gigitux/\">Luigi Teschio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lardsax/\">Luis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lmartins/\">Luis Martins</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/interdevel/\">Luis Molina (interdevel)</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/luisherranz/\">luisherranz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lyonmuller/\">Lyon M&#252;ller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pagelab/\">M&#225;rcio Duarte</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/selectedselections/\">Maddie - a11n</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madfcat/\">madfcat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/madhudollu/\">Madhu Dollu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/onemaggie/\">Maggie Cabrera</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mai21/\">Mai</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/makdiahussain/\">Makdia Hussain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manfcarlo/\">manfcarlo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manojmaharrshi/\">Manoj Maharrshi</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mdxfr/\">Marc</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marc4/\">Marc Armengou</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fullofcaffeine/\">Marcelo de Moraes Serpa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iworks/\">Marcin Pietrzak</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mciampini/\">Marco Ciampini</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pereirinha/\">Marco Pereirinha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marherumr/\">marherumr</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chaton666/\">Marie Comet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tyxla/\">Marin Atanasov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/santosguillamot/\">Mario Santos</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/clorith/\">Marius L. J.</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markhowellsmead/\">Mark Howells-Mead</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markjaquith/\">Mark Jaquith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/markjszymanski/\">Mark Szymanski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mapk/\">Mark Uraine</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mhkuu/\">Martijn van der Klis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/marybaum/\">Mary Baum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mat-lipe/\">Mat Lipe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imath/\">Mathieu Viet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmaattiiaass/\">Matias Benedetto</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matveb/\">Matias Ventura</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webdevmattcrom/\">Matt Cromwell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mattmm/\">Matt Medeiros</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matt/\">Matt Mullenweg</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mattormeeple/\">Matt Sherman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/matteoenna/\">Matteo Enna</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/maurodf/\">maurodf</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hmbashar/\">Md Abul Bashar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devsahadat/\">Md Sahadat Husain</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tofajjal02/\">Md Tofajjal Hossen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mdnesarmridha/\">MD.NESAR MRIDHA</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/immeet94/\">Meet Makadia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meetmehta1205/\">Meet Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/megane9988/\">megane9988</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\">Meher Bala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/hrkhal/\">Michael James Ilett</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/czapla/\">Michal Czaplinski</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mcsf/\">Miguel Fonseca</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miguelsansegundo/\">miguelsansegundo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/misulicus/\">Mihai Joldis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/miikkamakela/\">Miikka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/simison/\">Mikael Korpela</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikehend/\">Mike Henderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mmcalister/\">Mike McAlister</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mikeybinns/\">Mikey Binns</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/multidots1896/\">Minal Diwan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/illuminea/\">Miriam Schwab</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presents111/\">miya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mkismy/\">mkismy</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mobarak/\">Mobarak Ali</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mohitdadhich10/\">Mohit Dadhich</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/monzuralam/\">Monzur Alam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jucaduca/\">Morais Junior</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mrwweb/\">mrwweb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/devmuhib/\">Muhibul Haque</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mujuonly/\">mujuonly</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mukesh27/\">Mukesh Panchal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/faguni22/\">Mumtahina Faguni</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/musannifzahir/\">Musannif Zahir</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/amustaque97/\">Mustaque Ahmed</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/myhro/\">myhro</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mykolashlyakhtun/\">mykolashlyakhtun</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nsinelnikov/\">Mykyta Synelnikov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/assassinateur/\">Nadir Seghir</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/naeemhaque/\">Naeem Haque</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/namithjawahar/\">Namith Jawahar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narenin/\">Narendra Sishodiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nareshbheda/\">Naresh Bheda</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nateinaction/\">Nate Gay</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nazmul111/\">Nazmul Hosen</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nboot8/\">nboot8</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nendeb/\">nendeb</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/neotrope/\">neotrope</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ndiego/\">Nick Diego</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicmare/\">nicmare</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nico23/\">Nico</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niktat/\">Nicolas Tatarchenko</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicolefurlan/\">Nicole Furlan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bgnicolepaschen/\">Nicole Paschen Caylor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nicomollet/\">nicomollet</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nidhidhandhukiya/\">nidhidhandhukiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nielslange/\">Niels Lange</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nihar007/\">Nihar Ranjan Das</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ntsekouras/\">Nik Tsekouras</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rabmalin/\">Nilambar Sharma</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nilovelez/\">Nilo Velez</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niravsherasiya7707/\">Nirav Sherasiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithi22/\">Nithin John</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nithins53/\">Nithin SreeRaj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nkeller15/\">nkeller15</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noruzzaman/\">Noruzzaman</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nosilver4u/\">nosilver4u</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/obliviousharmony/\">obliviousharmony</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ohia/\">Ohia ᚛ᚈᚐᚂᚐᚋᚆ᚜</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/okat/\">okat</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dargus/\">Old account</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/oglekler/\">Olga Gleckler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/domainsupport/\">Oliver Campion</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webgarten/\">Oliver Schmid</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/olliejones/\">OllieJones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/alshakero/\">Omar Alshaker</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/omerkurd/\">omerkurd</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paaljoachim/\">Paal Joachim Romdahl</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pablohoneyhoney/\">Pablo Honey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pacicio/\">Pacicio</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pls78/\">Paolo L. Scala</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/papijo/\">papijo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/swissspidy/\">Pascal Birchler</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/patricia70/\">Patricia BT</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lumiblog/\">Patrick Lumumba</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbearne/\">Paul Bearne</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pbiron/\">Paul Biron</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pauldewouters/\">Paul de Wouters</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulkevan/\">Paul Kevan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulwilde/\">Paul Wilde</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/paulopmt1/\">Paulo Trentin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pavanpatil1/\">Pavan Patil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pavelevap/\">pavelevap</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pedromendonca/\">Pedro Mendon&#231;a</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peiche/\">peiche</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pers/\">Per S&#248;derlind</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perryrylance/\">perryrylance</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/provenself/\">Peter Rubin</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/peterwilsoncc/\">Peter Wilson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/petitphp/\">petitphp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/petralian/\">petralian</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mr2p/\">Phi Phan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nekojonez/\">Pieterjan Deneys</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wppinar/\">Pinar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pitamdey/\">Pitam Dey</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pkuliga/\">pkuliga</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pooja1210/\">Pooja N Muchandikar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ppolo99/\">ppolo99</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/praful2111/\">Praful Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pranitdugad/\">Pranit Dugad</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/prasadkarmalkar/\">Prasad Karmalkar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pmbaldha/\">Prashant Baldha</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pratiklondhe/\">Pratik Londhe</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/freewebmentor/\">Prem Tiwari</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presskopp/\">Presskopp</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/presstoke/\">presstoke</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/printsachen1/\">printsachen1</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priyanshii5/\">Priyanshii Vijayvargiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/prottoysarkar/\">Prottoy Sarkar Argho</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/quietnoise/\">QuietNoise</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rachelbaker/\">Rachel Baker</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rafaelgalani/\">Rafael Galani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rafaucau/\">Rafał Całka</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lamarajan/\">Rajan Lama</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rajinsharwar/\">Rajin Sharwar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rahmohn/\">Ramon Ahnert</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcorrales/\">Ramon Corrales</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ramonopoly/\">Ramon James</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/raquelandefeld/\">Raquel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ravipatel/\">Ravikumar Patel</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ravinderk/\">Ravinder Kumar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rejaulalomkhan/\">Rejaul Alom Khan</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/defries/\">Remkus de Vries</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/tabrisrp/\">Remy Perona</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/renishsurani/\">renishsurani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/retrofox/\">retrofox</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/youknowriad/\">Riad Benguella</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rdcoll/\">Rich Collier</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richtabor/\">Rich Tabor</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rockfire/\">Richard Korthuis</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/richardevs/\">richardevs</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rcreators/\">Rishi Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/noisysocks/\">Robert Anderson</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/robertghetau/\">Robert Ghetau</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/littlerchicken/\">Robin Cornett</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rodionov201/\">rodionov201</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kreppar/\">Rodrigo Arias</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rodrigosprimo/\">Rodrigo Primo</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rogermedia/\">Roger</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rolfsiebers/\">Rolf Siebers</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/roytanck/\">Roy Tanck</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/rmccue/\">Ryan McCue</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryancurban/\">Ryan Urban</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/welcher/\">Ryan Welcher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sebastienserre/\">S&#233;bastien SERRE</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergiomdgomes/\">S&#233;rgio Gomes</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/soean/\">S&#246;ren W&#252;nsch</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/s0what/\">s0what</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sagarprajapati/\">Sagar Prajapati</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sahilthakur02/\">sahilthakur02</a> · <a 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href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/saxonafletcher/\">Saxon Fletcher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/saxonfletcher/\">Saxon Fletcher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/scribu/\">scribu</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/script2see/\">script2see</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sean212/\">Sean Fisher</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sergeybiryukov/\">Sergey Biryukov</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/flexseth/\">Seth Miller</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/smrubenstein/\">Seth Rubenstein</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shailu25/\">Shail Mehta</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sh4lin/\">Shalin Shah</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cafenoirdesign/\">Shannon Smith</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shaunandrews/\">shaunandrews</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sheulyshila/\">sheulyshila</a> · <a 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href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/snehapatil02/\">Sneha Patil</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sourav08/\">Sourav Pahwa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/spencerfinnell/\">Spencer Finnell</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ryokuhi/\">Stefano Minoia</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt/\">Stephen Bernhardt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stephenbrook/\">Stephen Brook</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/netweb/\">Stephen Edgar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stephenmiracle/\">stephenmiracle</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/steveariss/\">Steve Ariss</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/stevejonesdev/\">Steve Jones</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/steveblum/\">steveblum</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/strangehill/\">strangehill</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/strarsis/\">strarsis</a> · <a 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· <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/webmandesign/\">WebMan Design &#124; Oliver Juhas</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/websitegenii/\">websitegenii</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wesatintellitonic/\">wesatintellitonic</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter/\">Weston Ruter</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/whaze/\">whaze</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/skorasaurus/\">Will Skora</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/earnjam/\">William Earnhardt</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nestea29950/\">WilliamG</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wojtekn/\">Wojtek Naruniec</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/wpsoul/\">wpsoul</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yagniksangani/\">Yagnik Sangani</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yankiara/\">yankiara</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/collet/\">Yann</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yguyon/\">Yannis Guyon</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/fierevere/\">Yui</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yukinobu/\">Yukinobu Asakawa</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yuvrajsinh2211/\">Yuvrajsinh Sisodiya</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zackkrida/\">Zack Krida</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zackkatz/\">zackkatz</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zafarkamal/\">Zafar Kamal</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zeelthakkar/\">zeelthakkar</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zenaulislam/\">Zenaul Islam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zieladam/\">zieladam</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zkarj/\">zkarj</a> · <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/zunaid321/\">Zunaid Amin</a>\n\n\n\nMore than <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/stats/\">60 locales have translated 90 percent</a> or more of WordPress 6.6 into their language. Community translators are working hard to ensure more translations are on their way. Thank you to everyone who helps make WordPress available in 200 languages.\n\n\n\nLast but not least, thanks to the volunteers who contribute to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/\">support forums</a> by answering questions from WordPress users worldwide.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved</h2>\n\n\n\nParticipation in WordPress goes far beyond coding, and learning more and getting involved is easy. Discover the teams that come together to <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/\">Make WordPress</a> and use <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/contribute/\">this interactive tool</a> to help you decide which is right for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">6.6 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\nSix-point-six is here. Make it all gorgeous; keep it On brand, and relax.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 16 Jul 2024 16:51:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Matt Mullenweg\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:77:\"Do The Woo Community: Open SaaS, WooCommerce and Enterprise with Nate Stewart\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84670\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57:\"https://dothewoo.io/open-saas-woocommerce-and-enterprise/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:44410:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-56 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-55 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-12 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-54 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-23 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-53 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"693\" height=\"693\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Cloudways-.png?resize=693%2C693&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78795\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://www.cloudways.com/en/?utm_source=dothewoo&utm_medium=Inlines&utm_campaign=dothewoopodcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Cloudways</a>: Managed cloud hosting from Cloudways gives you the assurance that your hosted site is fast, secure and backed by 24/7 support is important to you.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nJonathan: Welcome to another episode of Do the Woo. I&#8217;m your co-host, Jonathan Wold, and with me today is your other co-host, Tammie Lister. Tammie, how are you?\n\n\n\nTammie: I&#8217;m good, thank you. How are you?\n\n\n\nJonathan: I am excellent. Excited to be doing the Woo once again. We are joined today by Nate Stewart. He is the VP of Platform Strategy at BigCommerce. Nate, welcome.\n\n\n\nNate: Hi. Happy to be here.\n\n\n\nJonathan: And where in the world are you joining us from today?\n\n\n\nNate: In Puerto Rico.\n\n\n\nJonathan: How is the climate in Puerto Rico this time of year?\n\n\n\nNate: It&#8217;s great. You know, we just had a hurricane pass through and push a little bit of the humidity out. Now it&#8217;s back to normal, everything&#8217;s fine here. Other than that, it&#8217;s nice and beautiful.\n\n\n\nJonathan: Excellent. So Nate, you are not a stranger to the show. It&#8217;s just over four years ago, episode 64, you were a guest on Do the Woo. A lot has happened since. What are you working on at BigCommerce these days?\n\n\n\nNate: I&#8217;m working on, believe it or not, some of the same things we talked about, just in more elevated forms. Like, I think a lot of what we talked about last time was more of an ambition to support openness and bring open into the core of BigCommerce. Around that time, we talked a lot about how we&#8217;re open SaaS, like we want to be the open SaaS commerce platform, the leader. And that was more of a future-focused vision of where we wanted to sit in the market, what we wanted to support. Now, a lot of that is reality. We’ve invested multiple years into making that true and that changes a lot, I think, in a good way, of how we work with the WordPress ecosystem, how we work with pretty much everybody&#8217;s way of working. We want to feel like you enjoy and love and cherish a lot of different platforms and technologies and ways of working. And we want to be the platform that makes you feel at home because we trust that you have good taste and you like what you like because it has value. So yeah, all that has kind of become true. I’m really just making sure we get the most value ourselves and everyone else with that strategy.\n\n\n\nJonathan: I recall. It&#8217;s been great to watch over the years too, that you were talking about that then and there were some hints of it, but BigCommerce’s public position, because you&#8217;re of course a public company, that’s a whole other game to be talking publicly about this open SaaS strategy. It takes time to carry this out. So it&#8217;s interesting to see that it’s like we had that four years ago, you were talking about it. Now you have a lot more evidence that you can point to. Your investment in the WordPress ecosystem is how many, like, is it five plus years now that you&#8217;ve been in this space? Before we had you on the show, you&#8217;d already been at it for a while.\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, I think definitely in terms of when the first couple of WordCamps, big and small, we were doing research and meeting the community. That was like six, seven years ago. It took some time to build the plugin, but a lot of that was just coming from, at the time, we had hundreds and hundreds of merchants that already had WordPress running alongside their BigCommerce store. It was like, wait a minute, where does this data take us if we keep going? So that led us into the community. And then, I mean, myself, I kind of fell in love with just how it felt almost like what it felt like as I learned the web and grew into the person I am. I was like, oh, this feels true to who I am as well. And I think that&#8217;s just part of why I really fight to stick in any ecosystem where there&#8217;s that truth there and that it resonates with people. It’s not just a bunch of corporate marketing. There’s value beyond it. So yeah, that’s like six, seven years ago. It feels like a totally different world than six, seven years ago. But a lot of what stayed the same is kind of what I’m talking about, you know, at work and in the communities I’m focused on.\n\n\n\nJonathan: This is a WooCommerce-focused podcast, right? And one of the things that I’ve liked about BigCommerce from the beginning is that you didn’t have this anti-WooCommerce stance, but perception and reality are two different things. And I think early on, a lot of folks, like you had a product, your first plugin, for instance, was focused on more of this small business use case where BigCommerce… Well, let’s start with this. How do you think about the WooCommerce ecosystem? Because you have competitors in the space. You compete with Shopify and other proprietary platforms, but with this open SaaS strategy, how is it that you think about WooCommerce?\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, I think about it as a major part of the journey for decision merchants looking to easily make their vision a reality. You don’t start by coming onto a platform like BigCommerce and using every feature. You start many times with your marketing presence, with what you know. Some people are already blogging in WordPress and want to create a business, and it makes perfect sense to start there. So Woo is the first place that I feel most people should look because it&#8217;s so well supported. It’s just the default for that space. But then it’s a journey, right? So at which part of the journey does either WordPress or WooCommerce hit a little bit of a snag, where at that point you’re like, wait a minute, I need to get out of WordPress, get out of Woo. I don’t think that’s a positive decision. It shouldn’t be binary. It should be, hey, what part is it working and how do you retain everything you put into it and add on for the next level of your growth? That’s kind of the way I feel about Woo. I have a lot of respect for Woo. I feel a lot of really smart agencies and developers are creating really cool experiences in Woo. I like seeing that. I like seeing innovation in the space because it’s open source, you can do that.\n\n\n\nJonathan: And I think the key for me lies in that open SaaS strategy because we’re no strangers to proprietary platforms that work within our space, like Jetpack and other products like it are proprietary and there’s the SaaS component, but they’re all in on the WordPress ecosystem. Whereas other platforms, like Shopify, it’s zero-sum, right? They want everything there. It’s like you’re choosing Shopify, you’re also doing the CMS and everything. And that’s what stood out to me the most about the approach you guys have taken, embracing the choice. You want to use WordPress, you want to use WooCommerce, that’s fantastic. We’re here to support you. What’s made it clearer, and you tell me Nate, is, as the years have gone on, your emphasis on the enterprise has made a lot more straightforward. Whereas early on, it was more of an overlay because you started out as a small business-focused platform. That enterprise shift has taken a number of years to get to this point.\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, I mean, I believe we’re on the 15th year of BigCommerce being the name of the company. The backstory is a couple of years before that it was actually like you got the code and you ran it yourself back in the day. And it evolved into a SaaS platform, right? That was because early days, e-comm, it was much harder to scale and support by, you know, much greater, like, let’s say 10X. I don’t know the exact thing, but it just, you wanted, people were reaching out, going, I love this, but I want it hosted for me. And now hosting and other tech has made it to where it&#8217;s less of a, it&#8217;s more fuzzy between open and SaaS. And I think it&#8217;s part of our journey. So we went from the code to SaaS. It was SMB only because in the beginning, e-comm days, we didn’t have all the advanced features we have now. You built a cart, you built a catalog, you built all those pieces. But over the years, you get to where the people that need the most help with their architecture and functionality, they need way more complex features. You naturally get into mid-market and then enterprise. So we&#8217;ve kind of been on that journey, and because we&#8217;ve invested in the open strategy a while ago, it bodes well for enterprise, really well. Typically, that&#8217;s what you see in any software platform landscape. The more enterprise, the more APIs they have, the more ecosystem. Whether you want to get locked into, I would almost say, closed suite versus open suite, you see a lot of those strategies in different ways play out. We are more of the open suite, you know, we want to make it easy to package. And that includes you want to use WordPress and you want to use WooCommerce in a different part of our product catalog, if you will, like our suite. We want to open up pathways to that for the enterprise, and even before that to where it’s not a binary decision. It&#8217;s what’s best for you as you are growing.\n\n\n\nJonathan: And I think a good example of that to me, and we can touch on it more later, is you have products that people don’t know about, like Feedonomics, that have WooCommerce support built into it. It’s a product that’s focused on your product feeds out to various endpoints. And you could use WooCommerce in that. It’s a BigCommerce\n\n\n\nproduct. The last question I have for you on this topic before we switch gears: WooCommerce has a mission to democratize commerce, which is connected to the WordPress mission to democratize publishing, right? I’d love to hear your thoughts on what role you see BigCommerce playing in supporting that mission. How do you think about that mission?\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, one that kind of echoes six, seven years ago when I was kind of indoctrinated in the community, the whole 51% I think is maybe the clearest way we help to get to 51% of the web, which much of that is commerce. When you actually look at the longstanding site, I think right now what happens, the trend I’ve seen is when you start in WordPress, you layer on WooCommerce, and then when you hit that decision point of, well, maybe it&#8217;s not as fast as I wanted, or it&#8217;s getting complex for the different plugins and the agencies I&#8217;m working with are quoting that I should migrate off to something else. It&#8217;s at that point where if we make it easier to just uplevel the pieces of your WordPress stack to keep you on WordPress as you evolve, then both WordPress and many times Woo benefit from that. That&#8217;s how you get to the 51% and more. You find those strategies in the WordPress community where there are partners like us that go, hey, let&#8217;s keep that stat. Let&#8217;s keep building it together. I want to see a world where WordPress goes beyond 51% and we are a part of that journey and celebrating together, knowing that we&#8217;re talking about a journey here, not a one-off decision you make when you have a new problem.\n\n\n\nTammie: I&#8217;d really like to move us from that. You mentioned the toolkit, the suite, and we looked at how we have this kind of blue. I want to consider the space for commerce and builders. You mentioned this suite. What has been the most exciting thing to explore and experiment with product-wise lately? You mentioned layers and complexities, but what does that feel like building in, and how have you been exploring and building in that? What have you been exploring and building in that even? That&#8217;s a big question.\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah. One of the things that I mentioned earlier, we had hundreds of merchants back in the day, which led us in the direction that were using WordPress on the side, meaning they had their site and then a shop dot. Now because of the plugin, but also because of things like headless and composability, it&#8217;s more nuanced than that. And now with the Gutenberg editor, it&#8217;s been this way for a while. You have blocks and whatnot. You can go, wait, if you already have your marketing site up there and you want to layer on commerce and you&#8217;re already closer to the mid-market enterprise, right? Because you maybe have a big B2B business and you&#8217;re going to B2C. So you&#8217;re already at scale with complexity. Well, I&#8217;ve been plugging with a team a little bit around how would we integrate Gutenberg and existing stuff that you have, you made a decision like your theme and your blocks, into our open-source storefront framework that we built called Catalyst. That way, you get to retain what you built on WordPress and via the Gutenberg kind of standard blocks. So to me, one of the interesting things here is how, and this is an area I&#8217;d like to work more with people to solve. Blocks are almost there. The API, it feels in any like the WP GraphQL and REST, you can get to the point where it feels like it should work 100%, but you run into issues in actual live implementations where, okay, there&#8217;s not really a standard where you can go from WordPress React into static or into now with like Next.js and the newest app router, React server components, how you transition from, I get this block, it&#8217;s a form plugin, I have this type of React running on my headless instance. How do I make it work to where on the front end of the editor it works and then WordPress? I want that to look and feel the same way. That actually gets very complex very quickly. And I think whoever works in solving that problem where we can get there together will radically improve how people are using Gutenberg, how we work through these migration strategies that don&#8217;t push you off of WordPress and off of Woo, but go, hey, this block works well for you here, this block is not performant, should we go headless? Should we just replace that block? Anyway, I&#8217;ve been plugging away with the team about that, working with several different agencies in this space to go, what&#8217;s your opinion? And yeah, there&#8217;s a lot there. I think Gutenberg is really cool, and personally, even on the weekend I&#8217;m hacking around occasionally, you might see me going like, what&#8217;s the new thing? But it&#8217;s funny how, I mean, it&#8217;s been years since it was released and some of those pain points are still there, right? We have to ask ourselves why. If they&#8217;re migrating out because we don&#8217;t know how to use blocks, that&#8217;s not even a core commerce thing. That&#8217;s just in general, I think that more could be done there.\n\n\n\nTammie: I like how you&#8217;re kind of touching on it by what you are saying, which is you never, you don&#8217;t find those, I always call them stress cases, not edge cases because they cause you stress when you hit them rather than them being edge cases because they might only be for one person, but it could be really important that that one person hits them by the experimentation. So I think one of the answers, and it&#8217;s one of many, is people haven&#8217;t maybe explored some of these combinations. So that&#8217;s what really, for me personally, and I think a lot of people, is curious about these experiments that you&#8217;re doing. But I&#8217;d love, in what you&#8217;ve been creating in your own experiments, how have you discovered this to be uniquely different to building this space? Because it is a little bit uniquely different, these stacks, like you&#8217;ve shared about the complexities and the layers, but it kind of is shifting sands a little bit in places. What are some of the other differences that you&#8217;ve thought about as you are creating these spaces?\n\n\n\nNate: I think one that, again, this is more of a background thought the whole time. One decision we made early on was to do it 100% the WordPress way. And we, everything being in the community and the research and all the agencies and builders we talked to, they’re like, there&#8217;s the WordPress way, you build the template, it&#8217;s PHP, all of that. Gutenberg was happening as that. But no one really, it&#8217;s almost like people didn&#8217;t want it to succeed. It was a very weird feeling, but we got over that hump overall as a community. But during that early, you&#8217;re talking like six years ago plus, that WordPress way kind of limited us in terms of what Gutenberg was really trying to accomplish, which is being more modular, being more JavaScript-forward, React-forward. So now I have this, again, it&#8217;s a background thought of instead of, you know, the plugin being like the WordPress way templates, being more components by default, it&#8217;s really just React as the page loads reading out from an API. And yes, there&#8217;s a downside to, you know, you don&#8217;t have things in the table in the options table and other aspects. There&#8217;s maybe a loading artifact a little bit there where the page loads and then it reads the data. But the benefit is you are fully compatible with the static hosting trend that&#8217;s happening in the WordPress space and overall web development in general. It actually forces you to polish your API on your other end a lot better, making sure that caching and just performance in general is better at the API level. So I feel as a platform that is integrating that mode makes your product better for everyone by integrating that way. So I&#8217;ve had that thought come up a lot. The downside is there’s effort there to change, and there&#8217;s also feedback from the community where there are millions of people that love the WordPress way. And there&#8217;s the thought there, and what does the WordPress way even mean anymore? I&#8217;ve had this thought of it, isn&#8217;t it Gutenberg? Isn&#8217;t it blocks? So yeah, all that.\n\n\n\nTammie: I think it&#8217;s fascinating that the WordPress way, maybe it should be adapting. Maybe the whole point about the WordPress way is that it isn&#8217;t a fixed way, and we maybe thought it was like chiseled, and it wasn&#8217;t chiseled. I think this is such a fascinating discussion. I want to skip back a couple of steps to something you were saying because you very clearly have an understanding of builders and you very clearly have an understanding both from your own tinkering, I love that word, and exploring. So that translates into what is being created. And I think that is incredibly important when you are creating these suites and trying to also create tools. Can you explain a little bit more how that translates into the products that you are offering as well? Because I think there&#8217;s something in there as well that we&#8217;ve been talking about and getting super excited about the API and the experiments. But how does that then translate into the products?\n\n\n\nNate: So I think we&#8217;re really in this multi-product territory now. You can&#8217;t be truly open if the only way to get value is to combine everything the same way every time. That’s not open. That becomes closed in general, like entering the walled garden. And so I think what we&#8217;ve evolved over the years is formally, we&#8217;ve made acquisitions as a company. You mentioned Feedonomics, they&#8217;re doing very well outside of the BC ecosystem as well as in. They actively support all of our competitors, all our commerce competitors. When you go to feedonomics.com, it&#8217;s very hard to find any mention of BigCommerce. It&#8217;s very much its own product offering. Because we&#8217;re underneath the same umbrella, we work under the same constraints of, okay, when we need to ship a\n\n\n\nfeature and it&#8217;s using their technology, we build like a partner would, right? We don&#8217;t have internal things that are cheating. That helps everyone and helps us keep an honest open strategy. That’s why Woo fits into their strategy in a big way. They have many large WooCommerce customers and they have kept them on Woo and WordPress, and that&#8217;s okay because that product still grows their business. Let&#8217;s be honest, it&#8217;s easier to keep people happy if you don’t go into their house and say everything&#8217;s terrible. You can make comments, you know, they might not like the couch, but you don&#8217;t tell them to move. They like their community, right? Another example of this is Makeswift. They&#8217;re a recent acquisition, again, an independent company still like Feedonomics. They are a visual editor for Catalyst and our next-gen storefront. However, if you want to use Makeswift with WordPress, with WooCommerce, with any of our commerce competitors, they don&#8217;t become a competitor. If you like Makeswift, you&#8217;re not ready for BigCommerce, you&#8217;ve invested a lot in your current stack, that&#8217;s fine. There are interesting things with Makeswift because it is composable by nature. It is built from the ground up to support the latest in React and React server components, all that where Gutenberg is more of the default. It is React and the new way, but its APIs and all aren&#8217;t in the same ecosystem. You could technically use the Gutenberg API in the Makeswift visual editor and get the development flow you want while still retaining WordPress. It’s almost like WordPress as I know Jonathan you said in the past as the operating system. It has the API. There are all these interesting things that can happen when we’re multi-product. We&#8217;re not single platform where you buy it as a product. I think that&#8217;s one of the ways that we enable builders in a different way, and each of those separate products have different APIs and ways you can utilize them.\n\n\n\nJonathan: One of the big switches over the past couple of years has been this increasing emphasis on enterprise, right? That&#8217;s the transition that you&#8217;ve been making. Multi-product is a good example of how you carry out that promise. You&#8217;re giving flexibility, especially in the enterprise, where that flexibility matters. They may have policies for using this or that, or they want just a piece of it. That&#8217;s a good example. Let’s talk about enterprise more and start with this: how do you define enterprise? What is that definition within the BigCommerce context?\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, for us, the way we define enterprise, it&#8217;s more like the size of their annual revenue, their employee count, it’s a blend, and they&#8217;re opting into being a part of our enterprise plan. It&#8217;s nuanced because typically you have a lot of platforms like products out there that are like, we&#8217;re enterprise or not. They come in and it&#8217;s like, okay, they have to be at a hundred million in annual revenue, they have to be XYZ. What we&#8217;ve found is you could have someone with a tremendous amount of revenue and they are very efficient because of the type of product they sell. There are DIYs and a lot of owner-operators, if you will. I believe there are a lot of those in the WordPress ecosystem. It’s known for that. People say, I&#8217;ll do it myself and I actually know how to code, design, and operate it. But that means why should they always pay the price for all the complexity of enterprise when they can handle a lot themselves? They might pay us a little bit less, where they’re not super enterprise, but they&#8217;re paying more in other ways that other people might not be able to pay, which means they’re putting in the blood, sweat, and tears to code and design themselves. But that persona, while they might appear more mid-market in terms of how they&#8217;re using it, they are an enterprise in revenue. We like to make it a real conversation with the brands we serve and everyone involved, where do you want the complexity to be? At the upper level, we handle a lot. Once you get to enterprise and you&#8217;re on an enterprise plan, we handhold a lot more, we&#8217;re a lot more with you building, helping you build, up to the point where you have dedicated people at certain levels of building your business. Some people might look at that and say, yeah, I know I&#8217;m generating a lot of revenue, but I don&#8217;t need that level. My personal opinion is everybody needs help and it&#8217;s going to make you sleep better at night when you have someone in your corner. But that openness goes into, well, let&#8217;s have a conversation. It&#8217;s a fuzzy line for mid-market and enterprise. High level, you&#8217;re talking like 50 million GMV, 25, around that territory, very clearly enterprise. It’s very rare for someone to opt out of that.\n\n\n\nJonathan: This is where I get excited, looking at this through the WooCommerce lens. One of the risks we&#8217;ve seen over the past couple of years is people grow in WooCommerce, they like WooCommerce, they like WordPress, and then they start to hit the edges. There have been some great agencies, many of them coming onto the show, who’ve pushed the edges of WooCommerce and have innovated and figured out ways to make it scale further. And there&#8217;s also this feeling like it wasn&#8217;t designed for that. It&#8217;s an SMB-focused tool. While there&#8217;s a lot of room for growth, one of the things I&#8217;ve been intrigued about and been hoping to see more of is what it looks like to bring that enterprise capability from other players into the WooCommerce space. I think Feedonomics is a good example of that and would love to hear more about how you think about that. How can we, in the WooCommerce space, more successfully bring in enterprise capability? My hypothesis is that we can&#8217;t do it by just changing the core product because we have millions of store owners that count on that SMB approach that WooCommerce has taken. That&#8217;s the question. Right now, when people hit a certain point on WooCommerce and start to feel the edges, I think there&#8217;s a churn risk where people feel like they just have to leave entirely. My hypothesis is that doesn’t have to be the case. That&#8217;s where I see this opportunity with partners like BigCommerce being able to augment. How do you think about that? What would that look like practically?\n\n\n\nNate: Practically, this is one case where being multi-product and having these independent companies that think about each ecosystem, they understand the APIs and aren&#8217;t filtering it through the BigCommerce lens. It means the Feedonomics team, the product knows how WooCommerce works, has a dedicated integration with them, and has been through this process day in and day out. Someone calls up going, hey, my sync, I have these plugins that are for my sales channels or advertising channels, and I&#8217;m getting to the point where it&#8217;s slowing down my site, or I don’t know how to support adding any more. I want to add five more channels. Keep in mind Feedonomics supports like 300 plus, maybe 400 plus, hundreds of sales channels. When things happen, like Target has a marketplace, you&#8217;ll hear our competitors make big announcements about it. But the reality is because Feedonomics is wholly dedicated to that, they&#8217;re working with Target and other marketplaces as the alpha of when they release functionality. There’s a huge benefit to going, all right, I don&#8217;t need to change WooCommerce at all. I&#8217;m already selling on sales channels. Let me get an easier-to-maintain site and way more sales channels. But again, you have to make that choice yourself, or an agency or developer working with a merchant. There is a cost, of course. It&#8217;s an open SaaS platform, but it is a SaaS platform. It&#8217;s a transition from a free plugin that I just have to pay someone to maintain or keep up with updates. It&#8217;s that cost transitioning to dollar cost, but you get the time back and peace of mind. It’s really that type of process. That’s why enterprise comes in. People coming in from, let’s say, they have half a million, a million in GMV, annual revenue, that&#8217;s probably not something that Feedonomics power is necessary for. You can just optimize Woo and the sales channels. But if you have questions like, I have 3 million in revenue, I&#8217;m growing faster than I can update, I have ideas and ambition to go into 10 more channels. Even if your site is working, if you can&#8217;t rapidly add 5, 10, 50 advertising, sales, and whatnot channels, and that’s your ambition, that’s when the right time is to talk. Again, it&#8217;s the journey. We talk a lot about the right journey and the merchant journey, having the right time, right place, rather than going, there’s one solution that fits everyone.\n\n\n\nTammie: I&#8217;m going to pivot towards the end and imagine we&#8217;re kind of dreaming a little bit. We spoke about the past four years, but it&#8217;s panning away from products. There&#8217;s so much going on in this space, so many emerging trends, technologies. Let’s think initially for commerce builders, what should you be keeping an eye on if you&#8217;re building in this space now and in the next year? Then we can kind of get a bit dreamy after that.\n\n\n\nNate: I&#8217;ve actually seen a lot of different podcasts and articles about this topic in this space recently. Static, and again, I talked about how does Gutenberg in the WordPress ecosystem play with that. Not static as just the end goal because why not? It&#8217;s fast and we should do it more. I think that will improve WordPress as a platform and other platforms integrating with it. If you think about the right separation of concerns and how the technology enables both approaches cleanly. As a builder, going, I&#8217;m building in a way that works for WordPress and its out-of-the-box state and WooCommerce’s out-of-the-box state. What happens next? Someone wants to go static, they want to use\n\n\n\nNext.js, what do you do? Is what you built cleanly able to support that? As we think about our architecture and design of APIs, supporting both is better for everyone. It&#8217;ll create more opportunity for you as a builder, better for the end user. They&#8217;re more likely to stay in the WordPress ecosystem with what they built before because it can be translated into what&#8217;s next. A lot of what I’m talking about, we think deeply about composability and it&#8217;s almost a part of everything strategically that we&#8217;ve worked on recently and will work on in the future because of that reason.\n\n\n\nTammie: I definitely align to that. All too often, before it was generally just like commerce, what does the front look like, and how do the transactions happen there? But now it&#8217;s kind of flipped in that sense. I&#8217;m going to flip that question though as well, segue. What buzzwords or tech should commerce creators avoid? Because I think there&#8217;s so much, as you were saying, there&#8217;s like podcasts and it can be really easy to be distracted or pile your feature set too high so that you then get problems. What makes your eye roll when you hear about someone adding and you&#8217;re like, you don&#8217;t need to add that, it&#8217;s not going to work, it&#8217;s not going to help someone?\n\n\n\nNate: Yeah, I definitely think my eye rolls a bit when it&#8217;s AI without purpose. I think that&#8217;s kind of a softball question because a lot of people might say that. But what I mean with AI without purpose is if you&#8217;re chasing a perceptual win where it&#8217;s like, hey, I can have a chat interface here or look, you could ask it to do a theme and it does it. I feel like that&#8217;s removing research and analysis and understanding of the user from it. That&#8217;s just trying to achieve an end goal. Almost like what I said about static, don’t do static just because you hear a podcast about static. Do it because you understand the value of being able to transfer from one type of architecture to another. That changes how you build your thing. AI that has a purpose, like, okay, we&#8217;ve researched exactly how people are using our themes or integrating different APIs and we have a focused use of AI that’s tailor-made to accomplish that task or series of tasks faster. That&#8217;s awesome. I see a lot of people just layering it on. Especially in business, a merchant layering on random AI chat stuff, is it better than ChatGPT? Are you just trying to get a brand for yourself as a builder? I&#8217;m not discounting, some people that&#8217;s great early in your career, write up something and create and be like, hey, look at me. I know how to hit APIs for AI. But the reality is, does it make someone&#8217;s life better? And if it’s just a cool toy but it doesn&#8217;t make it better. That’s the difference. I&#8217;m not saying I know the answer perfectly. I had to look in the mirror and eye roll myself if I&#8217;m heading down. But if we just layered AI on top of that, we&#8217;re all capable of running into that peril of all I need to do is layer x feature or tech and it will solve my entire business.\n\n\n\nTammie: I would plus one that so much. I think it is so easy to AI, is it a workflow or is it AI as well as also that thing? Does it get a hurdle? Okay, the last question I’m going to ask here though is kind of, it kind of segues the end of this. Four years from now, you come back on the podcast, what do you hope you have seen? It feels an inevitable one if we&#8217;re talking about the future to give my last question. If we&#8217;re talking about the future, I would say there are a million viewers or listeners of this podcast and you invite me back for some tropical villa special edition thing. I know that has nothing to do with technology. I&#8217;m just trying to put out some optimism and let the universe make it happen.\n\n\n\nJonathan: I think Bob&#8217;s been talking about that, starting to take the hosts and putting us up. I think we&#8217;re going to get there.\n\n\n\nTammie: Thank you, Bob. If you do it a year, Bob, I&#8217;d like some puppies if we&#8217;re doing that, that&#8217;s fine.\n\n\n\nNate: I am trying to think about four. I feel kind of echo back on being able to celebrate together, getting WordPress. I don&#8217;t want to say modernize WordPress because I think WordPress is, people don&#8217;t give enough credit for modernizing as it goes. I actually think a lot of people have learned from Gutenberg without admitting it in other ecosystems. Modernize is the wrong word. It&#8217;s more perceptual. I think switching what people feel in the community and an internal perception of, hey, we have modernized, we&#8217;ve been through the pain of bleeding edge, trying to learn this stuff and into the rest of the planet by default going, okay, WordPress is in your stack, that&#8217;s great for these areas. Having a real conversation around it. Leveling the playing field with headless CMS where a lot of people had for years been using WordPress as a headless CMS. We&#8217;re not talking about the full journey, it&#8217;s like, which way are you using it with other parts of technology to get the most out of WordPress, out of WooCommerce at that stage. If in four years we&#8217;re having real conversations around that and we&#8217;ve done the technology work, everyone is better. That’s how you get to over 51% and beyond. It almost becomes like we&#8217;re, it&#8217;s not like WordPress, it could be, and again, I&#8217;m ripping off Jonathan, the WordPress as an OS. You think about Windows, Mac, iOS, all those different things. It’s close there now, but these things have to be solved to know how you interoperate and have all the standards where it doesn’t have to be like every use case is in WordPress. WordPress has to win at every stage of the journey. It has to be where you can hook in and out and get the most out of WordPress. It almost becomes a utility like an operating system long term. In four years, that&#8217;s happening. There will be so many more people using WordPress actively that we probably will be on a tropical villa for that episode because there will be so many new ideas and innovation there. I hope to be a little bit part of that journey.\n\n\n\nJonathan: It&#8217;s interesting because we&#8217;ve been on this trajectory for a long time. Gutenberg, it is interesting to look back now. At the time, there was a lot of, I would argue that the work that Tammie and many others have done on that transition was in fact the WordPress way. What we see today with themes, we added all this complexity to themes in the WordPress space and now we&#8217;re getting back to how it was originally and things are getting simpler again. It takes a long time though. This vision of WordPress as an operating system for creating on the open web, I think we&#8217;re seeing it play out more and more. E-commerce is a great example of people building and saying, hey, I can create on the web, I want to add business into this context. I really appreciate the work that you guys have been doing at BigCommerce to recognize and be a part of that. That open SaaS strategy fits really well into that. What we see in the future is WordPress just being a ubiquitous part of a stack and a foundation that people can feel like, hey, I own this. It takes a long time though to catch up and bring that parity, features, and ways of doing things that builders need to be able to create confidently on it. Right now, it&#8217;s the people who really believe that are making it happen. That includes folks like yourselves investing into the space. Thank you for that. I look forward to seeing what the next four years bring. Nate, if anyone wants to connect with you further or learn more about what you guys are working on, what&#8217;s the best way to get in touch?\n\n\n\nNate: On LinkedIn, Nate Stewart, search for that. Also Nate.stewart@bigcommerce.com. Feel free to email me. I&#8217;m not really on Instagram randomly taking pictures. I missed that whole thing. Definitely missed TikTok. I have an account on now X but I probably won&#8217;t actively respond. So LinkedIn and email. We also have our developer community. If you are a builder and you go in there and ping me, it&#8217;s a private community that anybody&#8217;s free to join. You go to developer.bigcommerce.com and go to the community section. We actually have a WordPress channel there that you could join in. I would love to see more people talking about how they&#8217;re using WordPress in our community. Or you could just reach out personally. Like I said, we&#8217;re working with a couple of agencies and leaders in the space just to think about what the future is here. The more voices we have that are stress testing that, the better it is.\n\n\n\nJonathan: Excellent. We’ll also look forward to seeing you at future WordCamps as well. Nate, thanks for coming on and talk to you soon.\n\n\n\nTammie: Thank you.\n\n\n\nNate: Thank you.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn this episode of Woo ProductChat, co-hosts Jonathan Wold and Tammie Lister sit down with Nate Stewart, the SVP of Platform Strategy at BigCommerce.\n\n\n\nJoin them as they get into the evolution of BigCommerce&#8217;s open SaaS strategy, the ongoing integration with the WordPress ecosystem, and their innovations on the horizon. \n\n\n\nLearn how BigCommerce is working to support WooCommerce&#8217;s mission of democratizing commerce and what trends and technologies are shaping the future of the e-commerce landscape. Plus insights on the journey of building open, scalable commerce solutions.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Takeaways</h2>\n\n\n\nBigCommerce&#8217;s Open SaaS Strategy: Nate Stewart discusses how BigCommerce has been focusing on openness, aiming to be the leader in open SaaS commerce. This includes integrating well with platforms like WordPress and WooCommerce, and ensuring that merchants can make their visions a reality with flexibility and support.\n\n\n\nEnterprise Shift: BigCommerce has been transitioning towards serving more enterprise-level clients. This shift involves offering more complex features and capabilities while maintaining flexibility and openness to support various business needs.\n\n\n\nIntegration with WordPress: The integration with WordPress and WooCommerce has been a significant part of BigCommerce&#8217;s strategy. They focus on supporting merchants at different stages of their journey, ensuring that WordPress and WooCommerce users can continue to scale and grow without needing to migrate off the platform.\n\n\n\nFeedonomics and Makeswift: BigCommerce&#8217;s acquisitions, like Feedonomics and Makeswift, highlight their commitment to providing powerful tools that integrate seamlessly with other platforms. Feedonomics, for instance, supports hundreds of sales channels and works well with WooCommerce, helping merchants manage product feeds efficiently.\n\n\n\nGutenberg and Headless Commerce: Nate talks about the challenges and opportunities in integrating Gutenberg and headless commerce approaches with BigCommerce. The goal is to allow merchants to use modern technologies while retaining the flexibility and familiarity of WordPress.\n\n\n\nFuture of Commerce: Looking ahead, the conversation touches on emerging trends like static site generation and the importance of thoughtful AI integration. Nate emphasizes the need for solutions that genuinely improve user experiences rather than just following trends.\n\n\n\nLong-term Vision: The discussion includes a vision of WordPress evolving as an operating system for the open web, supporting various technologies and use cases. This vision includes continuing to modernize WordPress and ensuring it remains a valuable and integral part of the web ecosystem.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.bigcommerce.com/\">BigCommerce</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-stewart-0095041a/\">Nate on LinkedIn</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:20:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"Gutenberg Times: New courses on Learn, My Menu theme, Section styles, Playground step library — Weekend Edition 299\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29239\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:121:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:22495:\"Hello, \n\n\n\nWe are a few days away from WordPress 6.6 version hitting a WordPress instance near you. The latest <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-rc3/\">WordPress 6.6 RC3</a> was released earlier this week. By now most of your testing should be done. Or you wait a few weeks before upgrading. On the Developer Blog <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/10/whats-new-for-developers-july-2024/\">What&#8217;s new for Developers (July 2024)</a>, help you sort through all new features and updates coming to WordPress. \n\n\n\nContributors are working on what next for Gutenberg, and there will be another <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/09/hallway-hangout-lets-chat-about-whats-next-in-gutenberg-2/\">Hallway Hangout on August 15, 2024, at 15:00 UTC / 9 am EDT</a> to discuss what could be on the Roadmap for 6.7 and beyond.\n\n\n\nExploring my hometown anew is a special treat for us; finding new Restaurants, hanging out in beer gardens and café&#8217;s with friends, shopping at farmers market, walking guided tours, and visiting art exhibitions in one of the seven art museums. It is wonderful to play tourist for a while. The next couple of weeks, I will write from my parent&#8217;s hometown, outside of Munich.\n\n\n\nWishing you a wonderful weekend. \n\n\n\nYours, 💕 Birgit\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nTable of Contents\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#learn-wordpress-updates\">Learn.WordPress updates</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#developer-courses\">Developer Courses</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#upcoming-events\">Upcoming events</a></li></ol></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/new-courses-on-learn-my-menu-theme-section-styles-playground-step-library-weekend-edition-299/#wordpress-playground\">WordPress Playground</a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n</div>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n🎙️ Latest episode: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/\">Gutenberg Changelog #104 – Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6</a> with special guest Carolina Nymark\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"learn-wordpress-updates\">Learn.WordPress updates</h3>\n\n\n\nThe training team started publishing their Learning Pathways courses. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\">Beginner WordPress User</a> is a course for WordPress users to learn more about the content management system that houses their content. It holds 25 lessons that users can tackle one at a time, or in single sessions, if they are eager to learn something very specific, for instance, how to use, the <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson/using-the-media-library-2/\">Media Library</a> or <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson/understanding-the-difference-between-wordpress-posts-and-pages/\">about the difference between post and pages. </a>\n\n\n\nIf you design sites for clients, you can guide your clients to a single lesson on the official WordPress site with videos on the official WordPress YouTube channel, that doesn&#8217;t have any advertising nor any other uncontrolled suggested videos. \n\n\n\nThe next set of Lessons are for an Intermediate<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-wordpress-user/\"> WordPress User</a>. This one lets learners &#8220;delve into advanced features, fine-tune site customization and implement effective content strategies.&#8221; It comprises 37 lessons, also all with individual links, for instance: <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson/using-the-style-book/\">Using the style book</a> or <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/lesson/uncovering-the-cover-block/\">Uncovering the Cover block</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"367\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Text-Guests-Image-block-2-copy-3.png?resize=652%2C367&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29299\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"developer-courses\">Developer Courses</h3>\n\n\n\nFor aspiring WordPress Developers the training team also released the first course. In 59 Lessons, the <a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a> &#8220;course provides an extensive overview of the basics of almost every development topic relevant to WordPress. While it is geared toward first-time developers, there’s enough information available that it’s worthwhile for veterans in the community to learn something new&#8221;, wrote Justin Tadlock in <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/10/whats-new-for-developers-july-2024/\">What&#8217;s new for Developers (July 2024)</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"367\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/beginner-developer-learning-pathway.png?resize=652%2C367&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29298\" /></a><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a> \n\n\n\nOn Learn. WordPress site, there are other developer related courses available which might be an overlap with the current work. They are more deep dives into certain topics. \n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/introduction-to-block-development-build-your-first-custom-block/\">Introduction to Block Development: Build your first custom block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/using-the-wordpress-data-layer/\">Using the WordPress Data Layer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/a-developers-guide-to-block-themes-part-1/\">A Developer&#8217;s Guide to Block Themes – Part 1</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/a-developers-guide-to-block-themes-part-2/\">A Developers Guide to Block Themes – Part 2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/develop-your-first-low-code-block-theme/\">Develop Your First Low-Code Block Theme</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/converting-a-shortcode-to-a-block/\">Converting a Shortcode to a Block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/developing-with-the-wordpress-rest-api/\">Introduction to developing with the WordPress REST API</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nJosepha Haden Chomphosy and Wes Theron chatted about the Learning Pathways releases on the latest episode of the WP Briefing podcast: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-83-learning-pathways/\">Episode 83: Learning Pathways</a>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"upcoming-events\">Upcoming events</h3>\n\n\n\nJuly 23, 2024 15:00 UTC / 9 am EDT <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\">Developer Hours: Do you really need a custom block? Let’s explore alternatives</a>. JuanMa Garrido and Nick Diego will explore several scenarios often addressed with custom blocks and discuss alternative approaches, especially those that leverage block patterns and Editor extensions. Key highlights include:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>How to create overrides in synced patterns</li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to add new functionality to core blocks</li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to use content-only editing and the allowedBlocks attribute in patterns</li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to integrate block bindings and block variations</li>\n\n\n\n<li>How to effectively use block locking and naming</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJuly 24, 2024 18:00 UTC / 2 pm EDT <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301927241/\">What’s new in WordPress 6.6?</a> with Bud Kraus and Laura Adamonis. You will see demonstration of the main features of this new version: Here are the main features that will be demonstrated during this prevention: Synced Pattern overrides, the Grid Block, an improved way to layout pages and negative margins. All part of the new and improved user experiences in the site editor and more.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJuly 19, 2024, <a href=\"https://stellarwp.com/stellar-spark/spark-schedule/\">Stellar Spark Conference</a>, a free online WordPress event! The lineup of speaker promises interesting, inclusive and innovative talks. It starts at 9 am EDT with a keynote with Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Among others, you can listen to Tammie Lister, Bet Hannon, Bud Kraus, David Wolfpas and Lindsey Miller.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nJuly 30, 2024 <a href=\"https://wordsesh.com/\">WordSesh</a> produced by Brian Richards&nbsp;is back. It&#8217;s a free online event with eight sessions across three live broadcasts in three time zones. Speakers announced so far include Alex Thomas (Defiant), Daniel Bachhuber (Automattic), Kimberly Lipari (Valet), and Piccia Neri (UX and accessible design lead)\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nSave the date: August 27, 2024 15:00 UTC /9 am EDT: Developer Hours: Building themes with the Create Block Theme plugin with Tammie Lister. In this session, you will explore how this plugin enhances WordPress theme development. You also learn to create custom themes, utilize the speed boost, define different types of themes, and streamline your theme creation process all the way to exporting the theme.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\nJamie Marsland published the recording of his talk at WordCamp Europe on YouTube: <a href=\"https://www.pootlepress.com/2024/07/master-wordpress-block-themes-3-essential-principles-for-beginners/\">Master WordPress Block Themes: 3 Essential Principles for Beginners</a>. He shows you how Blocks, Templates, and Styles&nbsp;can transform your website design with their simplicity and flexibility.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/nithin_sreeraj\">Nithin Sreeraj</a> at WP Content, takes you along <a href=\"https://wp-content.co/wordpress-6-6/\">WordPress 6.6 and its expected new features and changes</a> and explains in short paragraphs why those features and changes are important for you and your customers.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nMike McAlister announced the update of <a href=\"https://olliewp.com/the-ollie-pro-pattern-browser-just-got-a-huge-boost/\">the Ollie Pro pattern browser just got a huge boost</a>. To help you quickly browse the massive pattern collection, served from a cloud app, the updated increases load performance for these patterns seamless into the WordPress block editor. McAlister shared some technical details of the refactoring.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>This announcement comes days after the <a href=\"https://olliewp.com/introducing-ollie-pro/\">public roll-out of Ollie Pro</a>, </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Rae Morey at <a href=\"https://www.therepository.email/?mailpoet_router&endpoint=view_in_browser&action=view&data=WzI1OSwiNGMzNDVlMjk4MWQ3IiwwLDAsMCwxXQ\">The Repository covered it comprehensively</a>. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Jamie Marsland will interview <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/live/0-aHhfbk8Ac\">Mike McAlister on Monday on his live stream</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nOne of the newest Block theme in the WordPress Repository is <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/mymenu/\">My Menu</a> by Automattic. It &#8220;is a simple theme designed to facilitate restaurant owners’ site-building experiences. It is clean, direct, and customizable. Test the cool style variations that have been added to the theme.&#8221; \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/mymenu/preview/?style_variation=maroon\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"489\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/MyMenu-Screen.jpg?resize=652%2C489&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29337\" /></a><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/themes/mymenu/preview/?style_variation=maroon\">My Menu &#8211; style variation &#8220;Maroon&#8221; </a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\nJessica Lyschik asked contributors and users on <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/08/what-would-you-like-to-see-in-the-next-default-wordpress-theme/\">What would you like to see in the next default WordPress theme?</a>&nbsp; The next theme will be Twenty-Twenty-Five and is part of the next major WordPress version, to come out in mid-November. To be more specific, she asked:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>What types of sites do you want to create with the theme?</li>\n\n\n\n<li>What problems do you need the theme to solve to be able to create these sites?</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Is there an existing feature that you want the theme to support? </li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nIn his latest post, Brian Coords asked <a href=\"https://www.briancoords.com/will-wordpress-6-6-have-components/\">Will WordPress 6.6 have components?</a> After outlining his expectations on flexibility, Coords reflects on how Section Styles and Sync Pattern overrides fit into the ideas of a design system. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nThe summary of this week&#8217;s Hallway Hangout is now available on the Make Core Blog: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/12/summary-hallway-hangout-section-styles/\">Recap Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates</a> &#8220;Attendees chatted about cool new features and handy tips for styling sections in WordPress 6.6. They also swapped stories and ideas on how to handle theme styles with section styles. The group shared their experiences and brainstormed ways to make pattern management and theme building in&nbsp;Gutenberg&nbsp;better.&#8221;\n\n\n\n&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp; A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\nIn this week&#8217;s <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmDozCmu1l0\">Developer Hours: Editor unification and extensibility in WordPress 6.6, </a>Ryan Welcher and Nick Diego discussed how the more unified slots and extensibility APIs are unified in the @wordpress/editor package global variable, simplifying the integration of extensions across editors for developers. The user interface is also becoming more standardized.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"wordpress-playground\">WordPress Playground</h2>\n\n\n\nAlex Kirk has created a <a href=\"https://akirk.github.io/playground-step-library/\">WordPress Playground Step Library</a>. To learn more about the thoughts behind it and how to use it, he also wrote a blog post about how to <a href=\"https://alex.kirk.at/2024/07/11/wordpress-playground-step-library/\">Build a Playground Blueprint with a Drag and Drop UI</a>.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://alex.kirk.at/2024/07/11/wordpress-playground-step-library/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"356\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/wordpress-playground-step-library-1-1024x559-1.png?resize=652%2C356&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29306\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a> Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. \n\n\n\nNow also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience\n\n\n\n<img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" />\n\n\n\nQuestions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\nFor questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\nFeatured Image: Reflections Munich Marstall photo by Birgit Pauli-Haack\n\n\n\nDon&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? \n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"> Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button>We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n</div>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 13 Jul 2024 04:09:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:46:\"BuddyPress: BuddyPress 14.0.0 « Da Lucia »\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:32:\"https://buddypress.org/?p=334577\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:58:\"https://buddypress.org/2024/07/buddypress-14-0-0-da-lucia/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10099:\"We’re very excited to announce the immediate availability of <a href=\"https://downloads.wordpress.org/plugin/buddypress.14.0.0.zip\">BuddyPress 14.0.0 « Da Lucia »</a>, named after the excellent pizza restaurant located in the 15th arrondissement of Paris, France. Get it now from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/\">WordPress.org plugin repository</a>, or right from your WordPress Dashboard.\n\n\n\nThis new major version of your site’s community engine introduces around 80 changes mostly working under the hood to improve documentation, code formatting, consistency and the stability of the plugin. Here are five improvements we would like to highlight:\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>There’s a new &#8220;BuddyPress constants&#8221; panel added to the WordPress Site Health information tool. Use it to check whether you’re using deprecated constants in your custom code or third party BP Plugins/Add-ons. The information in the &#8220;BuddyPress&#8221; and &#8220;BuddyPress constants&#8221; panels is also very useful when you need to ask for support.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Most BuddyPress Admin screens now have a help tab in their top right corner which includes a link to an updated&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/buddypress/buddypress/tree/master/docs/user/administration#readme\">documentation resource</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Whether BuddyPress is installed on a multisite network or on a single site,&nbsp;<a href=\"https://bpdevel.wordpress.com/2024/04/21/signups-are-becoming-members-only-after-validating-their-accounts/\">signups</a>&nbsp;are now managed the exact same way.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Speaking of signups, the&nbsp;<a href=\"https://bpdevel.wordpress.com/2024/05/07/signup-fields-via-the-rest-api/\">BP REST API</a>&nbsp;has been improved so that you can now submit values for any xProfile field registered as part of the Signups profile field group.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Last but not least, we again offer native support for overriding BuddyPress’s language with your community vocabulary using&nbsp;<a href=\"https://bpdevel.wordpress.com/2024/06/28/translating-buddypress-texts-into-your-community-vocabulary-is-back-in-14-0-0/\">custom translations</a>.</li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\nTake a few minutes to discover all changes reading this <a href=\"https://codex.buddypress.org/releases/version-14-0-0/\">release note</a>.\n\n\n\nCompared to our previous major version (12.0.0 &#8211; the number right after was too intimidating&nbsp;<img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f408-200d-2b1b.png\" alt=\"🐈‍⬛\" class=\"wp-smiley\" />), 14.0.0 is a quieter update.&nbsp;After the huge BP Rewrites API revolution, the humans (us the BP Team) who maintain and support your favorite community plugin needed to catch their breath to get ready for the new round of big changes arriving in 15.0.0.\n\n\n\nLet’s keep in mind BuddyPress is an open source project maintained by volunteers giving freely of their time and energy to help you build great WordPress community sites.&nbsp;Don’t hesitate to <a href=\"https://buddypress.org/support/topic/buddypress-14-0-0/\">send us some encouraging words</a> and please consider contributing back to&nbsp;<a href=\"https://github.com/buddypress/buddypress/tree/master/docs/contributor#readme\">the project</a>.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">47 contributors freely gave some of their time &amp; energy to build the 14.0.0 release <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f60d.png\" alt=\"😍\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /></h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ahegyes/\">ahegyes</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/boonebgorges/\">Boone Gorges (boonebgorges)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chairmanbrando/\">chairmanbrando</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dcavins/\">David Cavins (dcavins)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dd32/\">Dion Hulse (dd32)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/djpaul/\">Paul Wong-Gibbs (DJPaul)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dontdream/\">Andrea Tarantini (dontdream)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/emaralive/\">emaralive</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/espellcaste/\">Renato Alves (espellcaste)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/gingerbooch/\">gingerbooch</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/iandunn/\">Ian Dunn (iandunn)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/imath/\">Mathieu Viet (imath)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/itpathsolutions/\">IT Path Solutions (itpathsolutions)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jnie/\">jnie</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johndawson155/\">johndawson155</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/johnjamesjacoby/\">John James Jacoby (johnjamesjacoby)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/josevarghese/\">Jose Varghese (josevarghese)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kainelabsteam/\">KaineLabs Team (kainelabsteam)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/lenasterg/\">Lena Stergatou (lenasterg)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/needle/\">Christian Wach (needle)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nhrrob/\">Nazmul Hasan Robin (nhrrob)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/niftythree/\">Nifty (niftythree)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nitinp544/\">Nitin Patil (nitinp544)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/pawelhalickiotgs/\">pawelhalickiotgs</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/perchenet/\">perchenet</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/poojasahgal/\">Pooja Sahgal (poojasahgal)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/r-a-y/\">r-a-y</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/respawnsive/\">respawnsive</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/roberthemsing/\">Rosso Digital (roberthemsing)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sabernhardt/\">Stephen Bernhardt (sabernhardt)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shailu25/\">Shail Mehta (shailu25)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shawfactor/\">shawfactor</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/sjregan/\">sjregan</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/slaffik/\">Slava Abakumov (Slaffik)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/strategio/\">Pierre Sylvestre (strategio)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/testovac/\">testovac</a>,<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vapvarun/\">Varun Dubey (vapvarun)</a>,<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/yagniksangani/\">Yagnik Sangani (yagniksangani)</a>,<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dancaragea/\">Dan Caragea (dancaragea)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/modelaid/\">modelaid</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/nekojonez/\">Pieterjan Deneys (nekojonez)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/mehrazmorshed/\">Mehraz Morshed (mehrazmorshed)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/shenyanzhi/\">沈唁 (shenyanzhi)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/haozi/\">耗子 (haozi)</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cyrfer/\">cyrfer</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/narolainfotech/\">narolainfotech</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/benjamin_zekavica/\">Benjamin Zekavica (benjamin_zekavica)</a>.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Your feedback</h2>\n\n\n\nHow are you using BuddyPress? Receiving your feedback and suggestions for future versions of BuddyPress genuinely motivates and encourages our contributors. Please&nbsp;<a href=\"https://buddypress.org/support/topic/buddypress-14-0-0/\">share your feedback</a>&nbsp;about this version of BuddyPress on our website.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Let’s meet at «&nbsp;Da Lucia&#8217;s&nbsp;» !</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://buddypress.org/wp-content/uploads/1/2024/07/IMG_7414.jpg\"><img width=\"1024\" height=\"714\" src=\"https://buddypress.org/wp-content/uploads/1/2024/07/IMG_7414.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-334590\" /></a><a class=\"bp-suggestions-mention\" href=\"https://buddypress.org/members/vapvarun/\" rel=\"nofollow\">@vapvarun</a> &amp; <a class=\"bp-suggestions-mention\" href=\"https://buddypress.org/members/imath/\" rel=\"nofollow\">@imath</a> met at Da Lucia&#8217;s to enjoy 2 delicious &amp; enormous pizzas!\n\n\n\nBuddyPress is about people! The BuddyPress team is made up of friendly folks from all around the world. We meet online every week during a release cycle but when we manage to meet IRL during a WordCamp, a BuddyCamp or just because we&#8217;re around at the same time we absolutely need to celebrate it with a great <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f355.png\" alt=\"🍕\" class=\"wp-smiley\" />. <a href=\"https://daluciaresturantpizzeria.eatbu.com/?lang=en\">Da Lucia&#8217;s</a> will, from now on, be remembered as the great pizza restaurant where <a class=\"bp-suggestions-mention\" href=\"https://buddypress.org/members/vapvarun/\" rel=\"nofollow\">@vapvarun</a> &amp; <a class=\"bp-suggestions-mention\" href=\"https://buddypress.org/members/imath/\" rel=\"nofollow\">@imath</a>, two members of the BP Team, met IRL for the first time <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f91d.png\" alt=\"🤝\" class=\"wp-smiley\" /> <img src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/15.0.3/72x72/1f602.png\" alt=\"😂\" class=\"wp-smiley\" />.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-1 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"wp-embedded-content\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/buddypress/\">BuddyPress</a></blockquote>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\"></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nProps <a href=\"https://buddypress.org/members/dcavins/\">@dcavins</a> for his review about this announcement post.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 12 Jul 2024 11:49:25 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12:\"Mathieu Viet\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56:\"Do The Woo Community: Connecting Means Opening the Doors\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84661\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:55:\"https://dothewoo.io/connecting-means-opening-the-doors/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4327:\"Episode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nYou know as well as I do that there are people in our community looking for a job. The reasons for this stem from many different situations. For freelancers and small business owners, in reality, they are always looking for a job in another sense. Depending on how things are going, it reflects on their need to find that next client.\n\n\n\nNow, I&#8217;m not leading into some episode where I am going to give you tips on looking for a job or insights on best practices. I&#8217;m really not qualified for that. I have been working for myself since the late 1980s, with a few jobs here and there during those early years of surviving. I probably know as much as many of you do.\n\n\n\nAnd again, I could mention all the resources where you might find work. Michelle Freschette generously curates job openings on her X profile every Wednesday. Marcus, one of our hosts, lists those who are looking for work over on thewp.world. Not to mention sites like Post Status and others that list jobs.\n\n\n\nThe reason I bring this up is that, as I do every day, several times, I visit LinkedIn and typically find a message from someone asking me if I am hiring. Now I get it on both sides. Often, this is unsolicited and can be annoying. On the other hand, there are those that just need work. Their abrupt intrusion, which you may describe as random, often sounds that way. True. But we do have to understand that in some cases it&#8217;s cultural, and in other cases, it&#8217;s just the fact that they have little experience in finding a job in what we may describe as the professional or correct way.\n\n\n\nSo, there are a couple of things here. First, they do have to connect or at least ask to connect with you to do this, unless they have a premium account, which likely they won&#8217;t be doing. That first connection may be as abrupt as a short intro asking if you are hiring, or a bit more extended by first asking to connect and then following up with something like, &#8220;Hi Bob, how are you doing?&#8221; which may then lead into the job pitch.\n\n\n\nWhat do I personally do? I like to connect with people, and most of them are potential listeners to the podcast. So I connect a lot unless the invite to connect includes some kind of weird pitch, be it a job, services they offer, or anything like that. When they immediately come back with the pitch, well, sometimes I ignore it, or other times I reply with a polite reason why I am not interested.\n\n\n\nYou may think I am crazy and spending way too much time doing that. Well, let me explain a couple of things about me.\n\n\n\nFirst, the ripple effect or the &#8220;you never know&#8221; effect. Each connection, no matter how it starts, can lead to something else. Maybe you think the odds are against it, but it happens. I have experienced that myself. Maybe they do become a listener. Or read one of my posts that inspires them. Or they could tell a friend or colleague about the podcast because of where their interest lies. The thing is, you never know.\n\n\n\nSecondly, I have opened the door. I&#8217;m not sure how many of you are old enough to remember door-to-door salespeople. Those ones that you would answer the door for or quickly disappear around the corner into another room hoping they didn&#8217;t see you. But for those times you did open the door, there was the invite. The chance for them to introduce themselves and give their pitch. How that moment evolved varied. But the fact is, you did invite them in. So when you connect with someone on LinkedIn, you are doing the same thing. Sure, it&#8217;s not what you may have expected or wanted, but you opened the door.\n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s it. I&#8217;m not suggesting you follow my line of reasoning or even that you have the same goals as me when it comes to a platform like LinkedIn. All I want to do is to remind you that you opened the door.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nIn today&#8217;s episode BobWP leads into the diverse challenge of so many people in the WordPress ecosystem looking for a job.\n\n\n\nWhich leads into his take on LinkedIn where so many people are asking for work and how connecting is all about opening doors.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 12 Jul 2024 10:08:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:63:\"Akismet: Version 5.3.3 of the Akismet WordPress plugin is ready\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"http://akismet.com/?p=284062\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:80:\"https://akismet.com/blog/version-5-3-3-of-the-akismet-wordpress-plugin-is-ready/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:572:\"Version 5.3.3 of <a href=\"http://wordpress.org/plugins/akismet/\">the Akismet plugin for WordPress</a> is now available for&nbsp;download.\n\nThere are a number of bug fixes and improvements and we recommend upgrading if you&#8217;re using an earlier version of the&nbsp;plugin.\n\nTo upgrade, visit the Updates page of your WordPress dashboard and follow the instructions. If you need to download the plugin zip file directly, links to all versions are available in <a href=\"http://wordpress.org/plugins/akismet/\">the WordPress plugins&nbsp;directory</a>.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 10 Jul 2024 23:38:45 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:17:\"Chris Rosser 🏔\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:107:\"WPTavern: #127 – Rian Rietveld on Understanding the European Accessibility Act and Its Impact on Websites\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=156969\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:121:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/127-rian-rietveld-on-understanding-the-european-accessibility-act-and-its-impact-on-websites\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:44407:\"Transcript<div>\n[00:00:00] Nathan Wrigley: Welcome to the Jukebox podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.\n\n\n\nJukebox is a podcast, which is dedicated to all things WordPress. The people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, understanding the European Accessibility Act and it&#8217;s impact on websites.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast. And you can copy that URL into most podcast players.\n\n\n\nIf you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head over to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox and use the form there.\n\n\n\nSo on the podcast today, we have Rian Rietveld. Rian is a web accessibility specialist from the Netherlands. As a freelance accessibility consultant, she works for NL Design Systems, the WordPress agency Level Level, and the form plugin Gravity Forms. She also teaches at the online learning platform, The A11Y Collective. She loves to share her knowledge at WordCamps meetups workshops and accessibility conferences worldwide.\n\n\n\nToday, we talk about the accessibility requirements of the European Accessibility Act or EAA, which will be enforced on June the 28, 2025.\n\n\n\nThis legislation mandates that public service websites, products and services be accessible to all people. Rian clarifies the key aspects of the EAA, particularly focusing on websites, but we also touch upon other areas such as apps and PDFs.\n\n\n\nShe emphasizes the importance of ensuring accessibility, not only because of the legal requirements, but also due to the moral obligation to include individuals with disabilities who access the web using a variety of different mechanisms, such as screen readers and keyboards.\n\n\n\nWe discuss practical ways to achieve web accessibility. For example, using default accessible themes in vanilla WordPress, and writing accessible content.\n\n\n\nRian also highlights the need for constant monitoring and training within teams to maintain accessibility standards, especially focusing on keyboard accessibility and color contrast.\n\n\n\nFinancial incentives for making websites accessible are another point we talk about, as accessible websites can lead to increased revenue by catering to a broader audience, including the 20% of the population that relies on accessible websites.\n\n\n\nAdditionally Rian points out that an accessible website can significantly impact SEO and customer engagement.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast we talk about the importance of having an accessibility statement for websites in Europe, the differences in the requirements between the EU and other parts of the world, and the benefits of hiring a professional to conduct an accessibility audit.\n\n\n\nShe also addresses exemptions for small companies, but notes the overall benefit of compliance for reaching more customers.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re interested in the implications of the European Accessibility Act, and how to make your website more inclusive, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;d like to find out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.\n\n\n\nAnd so without further delay, I bring you Rian Rietveld.\n\n\n\nI am joined on the podcast by Rian Rietveld. Hello, nice to meet you.\n\n\n\n[00:04:03] Rian Rietveld: Thank you. for having me.\n\n\n\n[00:04:05] Nathan Wrigley: You&#8217;re very welcome. So we are at WordCamp Europe 2024. We are in the city of Torino. This is my first interview, so it&#8217;s an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. We&#8217;re going to talk a little bit about a topic which Rian is mentioning at this conference. Do you want to just tell us a little bit about who you are before we get stuck into accessibility?\n\n\n\n[00:04:24] Rian Rietveld: My name is Rian Rietveld, and I&#8217;m from the Netherlands. I&#8217;m an accessibility expert. At the moment I&#8217;m freelance, and I&#8217;m working on various projects. One is the NL Design System that&#8217;s for the Dutch government, where I write documentation and guidelines for government websites, how to create accessible forms. And I also work for the WordPress agency Level Level, and for Gravity Forms, the WordPress forms plugin. And I give in-house trainings to companies.\n\n\n\n[00:04:53] Nathan Wrigley: This is a topic which is probably, well, we&#8217;ll get into it, but there&#8217;s probably a whole load of legal stuff that we&#8217;ll end up talking about. And I just want to clear up at the beginning, do you have a background as a lawyer, or anything like that?\n\n\n\n[00:05:04] Rian Rietveld: No, I am not a lawyer, and I want to emphasise that everything I say is from the accessibility point of view, and not from the legal point of view. If you have questions really about a legal implications for your company, hire an expert in legislation for accessibility.\n\n\n\n[00:05:20] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so I guess good to get out the way right at the beginning. Nevertheless, you&#8217;ve got a lot of expertise in this area. Your talk is called the European Accessibility Act. I would imagine we&#8217;ll probably call that EAA from this point. Well, I don&#8217;t know which is quicker, to be honest.\n\n\n\nBut the EAA, the European Accessibility Act is a piece of legislation, which I think is coming around in the year 2025. It seems like it&#8217;s a very big and important piece of legislation for people working with websites. Do you just want to tell us a little bit about what it is? Just what it is to begin with, and then we&#8217;ll get into who it affects, and how it affects people.\n\n\n\n[00:05:55] Rian Rietveld: In 2016, the EU member states agreed to make public service websites accessible. For example, government websites. And in 2019, they agreed on the directive to make also products and services accessible. And each member state has to implement that directive into their own legislation.\n\n\n\nIn 2022, each member state must already have that put in their law. So actually, that legislation should already be implemented with the member states. The Dutch government only did that two months ago. Some countries didn&#8217;t even do that yet. Other countries have that really nicely in order. So it depends a bit on the member state, but they all agreed that it will be enforced in 2025. June 28th, 2025. So it&#8217;s in one year, and then it will be enforced.\n\n\n\nAnd what they agree on, that all services and products need to be accessible. And that&#8217;s a whole bunch of products like computers, operating systems, ATMs, ticket machines. And for services, it&#8217;s websites, e-commerce, the 111 emergency number. It&#8217;s a list of products and services that need to be accessible for people with a disability.\n\n\n\n[00:07:14] Nathan Wrigley: So it&#8217;s not bound, this legislation is very much not bound just to websites, although that&#8217;s obviously our area of expertise. It&#8217;s any sort of interface, so an ATM is a perfect example. You know, you want to go and get money out of the machine, and obviously if you have an issue which prevents you doing that in the, and I&#8217;m putting air quotes, the normal way, that machine needs to be, by 2025, June 2025, that machine has to be accessible. And we can explore what that might mean for an ATM, as well as a website in a moment. But that&#8217;s the moment. That&#8217;s the day it&#8217;s got to be done?\n\n\n\n[00:07:44] Rian Rietveld: It should already be a law in the countries, but then it will be enforced. So that&#8217;s the deadline.\n\n\n\n[00:07:49] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, so the expectation is that people are working towards this, and it&#8217;s not like you start thinking about it in June 2025. Yeah, it needs to be done. That work needs to be finished, because at that point the enforcement can happen. And we can get on to the enforcement, actually, let&#8217;s sort of pivot to that.\n\n\n\nSo we&#8217;re in Italy at the moment, which is a member of the EU. I come from the UK, which made a decision several years ago to leave the EU. And I imagine there&#8217;ll be a bunch of people listening to this, I don&#8217;t know, in Australia, in New Zealand, in India, in America, does it affect them in any way?\n\n\n\nIf you&#8217;re an ATM manufacturer, I guess you might be shipping ATM machines to Italy. But certainly with a website, if I have a website which is based in the US, well, there&#8217;s nothing preventing me, as a user in the EU, from accessing that website. So where do the boundaries lie? What is the jurisdiction? Is there a boundary? Does it neatly encapsulate the EU, or do we need to worry wherever we are?\n\n\n\n[00:08:49] Rian Rietveld: Well, that&#8217;s the web. The web is worldwide. So if you sell services or products to an EU member state, then your website or product needs to be accessible.\n\n\n\n[00:08:59] Nathan Wrigley: You specifically said if you sell, so you used the word sell there. What if you have a website which is, oh I don&#8217;t know, let&#8217;s just say you have a blog, for example, or you have a brochure website, which is nothing to do with selling a thing. It&#8217;s just a hobby of some kind. Let&#8217;s call it that.\n\n\n\n[00:09:16] Rian Rietveld: Of course, but you don&#8217;t have to. If you sell items, services, or products, then you need to be accessible.\n\n\n\n[00:09:22] Nathan Wrigley: So it&#8217;s bound up with the transaction of money. If money is moving from one point to another point, and any of that touches the EU, then you need to be compliant by June 2025.\n\n\n\n[00:09:34] Rian Rietveld: Yes.\n\n\n\n[00:09:35] Nathan Wrigley: What I&#8217;m taking from that then is that, if you are an international company, and you are selling anything into the EU, you can&#8217;t ignore this, even though you are in a country where the jurisdiction, if you like, you might think it doesn&#8217;t affect you.\n\n\n\nHow could that jurisdiction possibly affect you though? So for example, let&#8217;s say that I am an American company, and I&#8217;m selling things, and Europeans are buying them. What possible thing could the EU do to an American citizen? Is there some relationship in law that you know of? And again, I&#8217;ll just emphasise that I know you&#8217;re not a lawyer.\n\n\n\n[00:10:07] Rian Rietveld: Well, that&#8217;s the big question, nobody knows yet.\n\n\n\n[00:10:09] Nathan Wrigley: Interesting.\n\n\n\n[00:10:10] Rian Rietveld: And what will happen, will it be a sue culture like in the US. Or will it be someone complaining, and take it to a local court? I have no idea. That&#8217;s kind of a tin of worms, because each country implements the legislation on a bit different way. For example, Germany has a very strict legislation. Maybe other people only stick to what is needed. It&#8217;s a tin of worms. And how it&#8217;ll be implemented, and how it&#8217;ll be enforced, we just have to see what happens.\n\n\n\n[00:10:38] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess it will be interesting. Do you know though if people are lining up? How can I describe this without sounding controversial. In certain parts of the world, there&#8217;s this phrase which I hear from time to time and it&#8217;s ambulance chasing lawyers. And it&#8217;s the idea that lawyers find things where there&#8217;s a problem, and they go after them, maybe not for ethical reasons, or moral reasons, or whatever it may be, but it&#8217;s just because there&#8217;s a pot of money that they could get. Do you have any intuition as to whether lawyers in the EU are kind of ramping up their posture in terms of the EAA.\n\n\n\n[00:11:11] Rian Rietveld: That&#8217;s not a culture in Europe at all, because for government website you need at the moment have an accessibility statement where you say, I&#8217;m aiming for, for example, the web content accessibility guidelines, version 2.1, level AA. This is what still needs to be done. This is the roadmap, and this is where you can file an issue. That&#8217;s an accessibility statement. And you already put what&#8217;s wrong on your website. And that will be hard to do in the US, because that gives a lawyer like a checklist.\n\n\n\nBut if you have a good support system in place. First, someone needs to complain, and you need to respond on that and say, okay, I&#8217;m going to fix that. But if you ignore complaints and just say, oh, there&#8217;s disabled people, I&#8217;m not interested in that. That will trigger a lawsuit I think.\n\n\n\nBut in Europe, you have to have an accessibility statement explaining what still needs to be done. And that&#8217;s a big issue I think for US companies, because they legally cannot do that.\n\n\n\n[00:12:13] Nathan Wrigley: So does that statement need to be published online, or it be a document that you just have in a file, in a drawer gathering dust?\n\n\n\n[00:12:21] Rian Rietveld: It has to be on your website, an accessibility statement. Yeah, it gives information about, what are you doing? What are you aiming for? What are you working on? And also, how people can report an issue. And that&#8217;s important if you are a client and you cannot use someone&#8217;s website, and you have the courtesy to actually tell that, okay, I cannot use your website because I have this, and this issue. You have to take these people seriously.\n\n\n\n[00:12:43] Nathan Wrigley: So if you have to put that online, presumably it&#8217;s possible to go and find guidance about websites, in order to start ticking off those boxes, to be able to say, yeah, we have done that one, and we have done that one, but we have yet to begin this process. Those kind of documents are available, easy to access. Do you have a URL which you can just pop out of your head to do with that, where you would go and find those kind of things?\n\n\n\n[00:13:07] Rian Rietveld: If you have a website, you let an accessible expert or firm do an audit. And in the audit you state what is wrong, right, and what is wrong. And that is a document you can link to. Is that what you mean?\n\n\n\n[00:13:19] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I think so. So you are advocating that, if you are not entirely sure, in other words, it sounds like, if you don&#8217;t have a legal team who are up on this, and understand all of this, you are saying hire a professional.\n\n\n\n[00:13:31] Rian Rietveld: Yes, please. Well, you have to do an audit by a professional. And a professional has to do an audit on your website, as a basement measurement, and you work from there. You fix the issues from there. And maybe if all the issues are fixed, you can redo the audit, and publish that on your website. But it gives you a state of the accessibility of your website at that moment.\n\n\n\n[00:13:52] Nathan Wrigley: So I&#8217;m imagining a, almost like a tick sheet with, there&#8217;s this, and this, and this, and I&#8217;ve to tick that, but I haven&#8217;t ticked that. Are there certain things on that tick sheet, things that you need to do in a certain order? And again, obviously you know the caveat about you not being a lawyer, and what have you. But, are there certain things that are more important? Can you get away with just ticking one box? Do the very tiniest amount, and still say, well, look we&#8217;ve made a start, it&#8217;s fine.\n\n\n\n[00:14:18] Rian Rietveld: No, you have to say, I&#8217;m aiming for WCAG, it&#8217;s a web content and accessibility guidelines, version 2.1 AA, or 2.2 AA. And then you have to meet a couple of success criteria. Your images have alternative text, your videos have captioning. You have to meet all those to comply to WCAG, and to comply to the European Accessibility Act requirements.\n\n\n\nSo if you fail some, you need to fix those to comply completely. There are not many websites that comply a hundred percent. There&#8217;s always something missing. So it&#8217;s utopia to say, oh, my website is perfectly accessible. Website is a work in progress.\n\n\n\n[00:14:58] Nathan Wrigley: So, given that businesses can be one person, or they could be 50,000 people. Does any of that factor in? So if I am an individual employee, I am selling something, so I know that I have to take this seriously. Does the size of the business in any way affect how much I have to do by a certain date?\n\n\n\nBecause I can imagine a company of the size of, oh I don&#8217;t know, let&#8217;s say Amazon, or Google, or something along those lines, where they&#8217;ve got gigantic resources, and they can really fairly, straightforwardly put teams of people onto this project. I&#8217;m kind of imagining, in a fair and just world, there would be an expectation that they do more than the one person business, who just started up recently, and has got a million other things to do to keep their business going. Is there any sense of that, or is it, no, it&#8217;s a absolute flat level playing field, we all have to do the same?\n\n\n\n[00:15:49] Rian Rietveld: Thankfully, there&#8217;s an exception for small companies. If you have less than 10 employees, and you have a revenue less than 2 million euros, you don&#8217;t need to comply. You can, of course, because it&#8217;s very good for your revenue, but you don&#8217;t need to comply to that rules.\n\n\n\n[00:16:05] Nathan Wrigley: I hadn&#8217;t written this question down, but that was an interesting thing that you just said. You just said that it will help your revenue, or it&#8217;s good for your revenue. And I&#8217;ve heard this being talked about before, that the people out there online, who require an accessible website, that the money in their pockets, the size of that cohort of peoples, the finances that they&#8217;ve got available is pretty large. And so if you do this work, even if you don&#8217;t need to, it could be very, very economically good for your business. So I&#8217;m just going to throw that back. Do you have anything to say about that?\n\n\n\n[00:16:37] Rian Rietveld: Oh, I totally agree. And the population is getting older and older, so more and more people need an accessible website. Good color contrast, a logical order of the information. I think, if you build for everyone, then you just have more customers.\n\n\n\nAbout 20% of all people need some kind of accessibility. So if you just throw away 20% of your people, of your customers, that&#8217;s a large amount of number. And those are what you said, people who have money and want to buy something from you, and you just block the door for them.\n\n\n\n[00:17:10] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, that&#8217;s interesting. So, I think we&#8217;re all carrying around a mobile phone. We&#8217;ve all got this device in our pockets, which enables us to buy anything at any moment. And if you are closing the door, it&#8217;s literally like having a shop with a front door, but you&#8217;ve locked the door, and closed the windows, and pulled the curtains, and nobody can peer inside.\n\n\n\n[00:17:28] Rian Rietveld: What I found interesting is that there is a lot of money in SEO. You want all those people coming to your website, and then you say to 20%, okay, you are not allowed. So you throw away 20% of your SEO budget.\n\n\n\n[00:17:42] Nathan Wrigley: Really interesting. So 20% would be the kind of figure that we&#8217;re playing with. So there&#8217;s not only a legal obligation to do it, and we can talk about whether there&#8217;s a moral obligation in a moment. But there is definitely a financial incentive to doing this. And that, I think, is a piece of the conversation which doesn&#8217;t often get raised. And if, by doing a series of tasks, and it may be hard, and it may be arduous, but if you get these tasks complete, you may see an uptick in your revenue. So that&#8217;s kind of interesting.\n\n\n\n[00:18:08] Rian Rietveld: Yeah, it is part of your quality. You want to make your website responsive, secure, and good performance. That are all things that make a good website. Also add accessibility. It&#8217;s part of the quality of your work.\n\n\n\n[00:18:20] Nathan Wrigley: Is there a reason this kind of legislation hasn&#8217;t happened many years ago? Is it that the people who are now having an expectation that they can get online, did they just not have a voice until more recently? Because I can imagine that, if you require an accessible version of the internet, in the past years, you just wouldn&#8217;t have used the internet.\n\n\n\nAnd so you didn&#8217;t have a way to say, well, okay, this bit doesn&#8217;t work, this bit doesn&#8217;t work, because the whole thing was just broken. So you never got to see inside, you never got to peel back the curtain, and see what amazing things there are in the internet. So it&#8217;s kind of curious to me how we&#8217;ve got to 2025, and we&#8217;re still talking about this subject. We could have tackled it a decade or more ago, probably.\n\n\n\n[00:19:03] Rian Rietveld: Well, it&#8217;s so hard to even get the government accessible. That took years, and years, and years. And now, even in the Netherlands, about 3% of the website for the government is totally accessible. The rest has still issues. It&#8217;s hard work because it needs training, it needs awareness, it needs people who decide about the finances to give the resources for training and for development. It&#8217;s a question of awareness, and that&#8217;s getting now better and better.\n\n\n\n[00:19:30] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, I guess if you are, so I&#8217;ll take the example of a wheelchair user. If you are standing on the street, and you see somebody using a wheelchair, and they want to get into a physical shop, and there are some steps, and nothing but steps, you see the problem. It&#8217;s right there in front of your eyes. This person cannot get into that shop. That&#8217;s a disaster. So we built the ramps. But this is kind of hidden.\n\n\n\n[00:19:53] Rian Rietveld: Yes. When you are young and everything works, your body, you just test a website with a mouse and your eyes, and you say, okay, it works. And you have no idea that someone who gets the website read out loud, has no clue about what&#8217;s happening, or uses the website with a keyboard, cannot open the menu, for example. It works for the mouse, it works for you.\n\n\n\nOnly recently in the Netherlands, accessibility is taught on the schools for developers and designers. That&#8217;s only now starting. So everybody has to teach themselves who is a developer at the moment, or gets training, or maybe companies train their people. It&#8217;s only starting at the moment.\n\n\n\n[00:20:32] Nathan Wrigley: So we had decision makers who didn&#8217;t make these decisions, plus we had people coming into the industry who just didn&#8217;t know. But now we&#8217;re at the beginning of that journey. This is part of the education, so hopefully, yeah okay.\n\n\n\n[00:20:44] Rian Rietveld: Yes, education is the key, I think. We need to educate developers, designers, and also managers.\n\n\n\n[00:20:49] Nathan Wrigley: So with the best will in the world, even if 50% of the people, 60%, 70%, 80%, whatever it may be, of the people listen to this podcast, and they say, yep, I&#8217;m going todo all the right things. There&#8217;s definitely going to be a proportion of people who say, leave it till tomorrow, we&#8217;ll leave it for another year. We&#8217;ll never get caught, we a tiny fish in a big pond of websites.\n\n\n\nWhat can the EU actually do? And when I wrote the question out, I wrote, what stick can the EU use? We have this carrot and stick approach in the English language, where you hit something with a stick to get it to behave, or you offer it a carrot, a treat if you like, to get it to behave. So, is there any of that? Is there any stick that the EU can bring to bear? And also, are there any carrots?\n\n\n\n[00:21:30] Rian Rietveld: Well, that&#8217;s the big question. I cannot look in the future. So, what will happen in 2025? Everyone in the accessibility world is looking at, so what will happen? We don&#8217;t know. Will there be a strict legislation? Will nothing happen, like with the GDPR? Oh, panic, and then nothing happens. Or will we actually be enforced, and will there be fines for companies? I don&#8217;t know.\n\n\n\nI hope this will be a game changer, because there&#8217;s a lot of publicity on this. And there&#8217;s no easy, quick fix. Like the GDPR, you put a cookie banner, and you&#8217;re done. Rework your website, you need to rebuild your website, look at your work. And that&#8217;s a lot more work than just adding a cookie banner. And if there will be implications, I hope so.\n\n\n\n[00:22:11] Nathan Wrigley: Do you know if on the books, in theory, there&#8217;s a stick? Is there anything, and again, I know you are not a lawyer, but do you know if there&#8217;s anything in the legislation which could be used? Whether or not it will be used aggressively or, you know, more of a soft touch.\n\n\n\n[00:22:26] Rian Rietveld: Well, it depends on the member states. Each member state can decide, in their own legislation, what the fine will be, what the stick will be. So, not every country has decided on what to do yet. Some countries have, and some other countries none. Ireland, the law in Ireland that went viral in the accessibility world, you can go to jail. Yes, you can get fined and go to jail. Other countries may have no implications at all. If you can go to jail in Ireland, it may be not really happening, but it&#8217;s in the legislation.\n\n\n\n[00:22:56] Nathan Wrigley: It&#8217;d be curious to see, in the same way that financial laws, you know, if you can move your business to a country where there&#8217;s very little tax, we know what happens. The countries, there&#8217;s lots of companies, they suddenly set up an office there, and they become, I wonder if the same thing would happen. All the companies move away from Ireland from the risk of going to prison, or something like that.\n\n\n\nOkay, tell me about this then. So we know that you have until June 2025 to get this work done. Tell us about the more sort of moral aspect. And what I&#8217;m talking about there is, it&#8217;s going to be difficult to do this because we&#8217;re an audio podcast, and really it would be nice to sort of see some of this stuff on a screen, but we&#8217;ll just have to use words to describe it. Is there a kind of, a moral aspect to this? Can you describe what it may, in some limited circumstance, look like, or feel like, or sound like for people on the web?\n\n\n\nAnd I know that&#8217;s really hard to encapsulate. But if we took the example of somebody who is completely blind. So that&#8217;s something I think we can all understand. You know, if you&#8217;ve got perfect sight, you can close your eyes, and you can hold a mouse in your hand, and you can then try to imagine what the internet would be like. And already, just in my own mind, I&#8217;m picturing it&#8217;s a complete black box. I can&#8217;t see it anymore. What are the ways that people are accessing the web without normal, air quotes, mouse, keyboard, eyes, ears, format?\n\n\n\n[00:24:16] Rian Rietveld: There&#8217;s so many different ways. Some people are deaf and blind, so they depend on a braille display. They get all the text in pins, braille letters. Some people use the keyboard only, and that actually is a requirement. You should be able to use a website with a keyboard only. And some people use a stick in their mouth, if they cannot use their hands. And they can access keyboard, or display by that.\n\n\n\nSome people have a straw in their mouth, and they can use the straw to blow in that, and puff it&#8217;s called. And that, way it&#8217;s a zero and one, so that way you can use the website also. Stephen Hawkin, he used electronic device on his chin. He used a device on his cheek, where he can, just by moving one muscle, operate his voice control. There are people who speak to the computer without any hands. So many different ways. And it only works if you code your website properly.\n\n\n\n[00:25:12] Nathan Wrigley: Right, that&#8217;s the key point. All of that bit that you just said, if you just listen to that, you would think, oh, well it&#8217;s fine then, people can put a stick in their mouth, and they can use that, or they can blow, or they can have something attached to their face, or they can speak.\n\n\n\nBut of course that&#8217;s not it. It&#8217;s that, if the website isn&#8217;t built to enable those kind of technologies, you are faced with something border lining on, just massively infuriating to use, impossible to use. So it&#8217;s not like, oh, I&#8217;ve got this assistive technology, suddenly everything is perfect. You have to rebuild the website so that the assistive technology can get through the website, and you&#8217;ve got clear markers, and it&#8217;s all built correctly.\n\n\n\n[00:25:52] Rian Rietveld: Actually, the web by itself, HTML, what the website is made of, is accessible. All the extra stuff they put into it, making it work only with the mouse, all the extra effects, that makes it inaccessible. So learn HTML properly. If you can use HTML well, you already have a lot of accessibility for free.\n\n\n\n[00:26:13] Nathan Wrigley: So again, this is a question that I didn&#8217;t have written down, but it&#8217;d be interesting to explore. If you were just using pure and exact HTML, everything would work. But we&#8217;re at a conference where we&#8217;re using a CMS, and I just have the question, how does WordPress do with any of this? Is it out of the box?\n\n\n\nSo, okay, I&#8217;m not imagining that we&#8217;re throwing a bunch of plugins in. Ignore that, because obviously that would introduce a million and one different ways of making it inaccessible, or accessible. But if we just took vanilla WordPress, and installed directly from wordpress.org, and we were to write posts, and pages, and what have you with that, with just the core blocks, how are we doing?\n\n\n\n[00:26:54] Rian Rietveld: If you use the default teams, 21, 22, that kind of themes, those are all accessible. If you use those with vanilla WordPress, you&#8217;re pretty good.\n\n\n\nAnother thing is the content. You need to write also accessible content. Good heading structure, don&#8217;t call all the links, click here. Add alternative text to your images. If you do that too, you can create an accessible website. It&#8217;s perfectly possible.\n\n\n\n[00:27:20] Nathan Wrigley: Now the interesting thing there is, it feels like we just had a conversation where, a person without accessibility needs has a WordPress website, and they&#8217;re creating the content for people who have accessibility needs. How does it work the other way around? How does WordPress behave as an editing, content creating experience for people with accessibility needs? I think that&#8217;s going to be a harder question to answer.\n\n\n\n[00:27:44] Rian Rietveld: It needs work. I will keep it to that.\n\n\n\n[00:27:46] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, okay. There&#8217;s work to be done.\n\n\n\n[00:27:47] Rian Rietveld: There&#8217;s work to be done. And we have an excellent accessibility team, and they are doing a great job. They need more people.\n\n\n\n[00:27:55] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. I mean, we&#8217;ve thrown in, in the last five or six years, a very complicated, well, not complicated once you&#8217;ve understood it. It&#8217;s a complicated editing experience. There&#8217;s lots of moving parts and there&#8217;s menus over here, and there&#8217;s options, which if you click in something, other things appear, and what have you, and it&#8217;s all very visual. My interpretation of that is entirely visual. I move my mouse, and it&#8217;s complicated. So there&#8217;s work to be done, the long and the short of it.\n\n\n\nWe didn&#8217;t really touch on this, but I do want to slightly. Is your website ever going to be complete? Even if you are Google, and you have this giant team, where you&#8217;ve got people, you know, a hundred people on this every day, for all of the things that they do. Is this journey ever complete, or is this shifting sand? Is it that the legislation is changing all the time, or there&#8217;s just too many things to do?\n\n\n\nAnd with that, are you allowed to, I know we had this sort of tick box exercise, are there some things that you could recommend to begin with if you&#8217;re on this journey? So let&#8217;s take the first bit. Can you ever say that website over there is complete?\n\n\n\n[00:28:57] Rian Rietveld: Well, yes you can, but a website is evolving. New content is added, new features are added, and all those need to be checked all the time. If you have a new content manager and they don&#8217;t know about adding alternative texts, it breaks your accessibility.\n\n\n\n[00:29:13] Nathan Wrigley: Oh, good point, yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:29:14] Rian Rietveld: So everybody on the team must stay focused and trained. If you have a new content manager, train them in accessibility. If you add content, then the accessibility is vulnerable because it needs to be added accessible.\n\n\n\n[00:29:28] Nathan Wrigley: Sorry, just to interrupt you. That&#8217;s interesting because I&#8217;m imagining a site that, let&#8217;s say I&#8217;ve got a site and it&#8217;s 10 years old, and I&#8217;ve got 10,000 blog posts, and all of them contain, let&#8217;s say video because you mentioned that videos ought to have captions. Do I need to go back and do all of those 10,000 videos?\n\n\n\n[00:29:44] Rian Rietveld: That&#8217;s interesting because you can, in your accessibility statement, say, okay, from January 1st 2024, I&#8217;m going to add captioning to all my videos, and then do that also. And before that, if you need content that is added to the video, or if you need captioning on a video, or need the content on an older video, email us and we&#8217;ll provide it to you. So you don&#8217;t have to go through all that content, and go through the videos, and the alternative text. But if someone needs that content, you must be able to provide it.\n\n\n\n[00:30:18] Nathan Wrigley: Okay. So we know that our website really, in the real world, the website&#8217;s never going to be complete if you are, like most people, are tweaking the website, and you&#8217;ve got people creating content, and new pages. So you&#8217;ve got to be constantly mindful.\n\n\n\nAnd also, I think we&#8217;ve learned that you can pick your journey a little bit. You can say, okay, I&#8217;m going to tackle this piece of the jigsaw, and this piece. And treat it as a journey.\n\n\n\n[00:30:41] Rian Rietveld: That&#8217;s the roadmap you&#8217;re taking. And first start with keyboard accessibility. That&#8217;s a main feature. If your keyboard accessibility is okay, it works with almost all assistive technology. And then go through color contrast. And that&#8217;s the easiest thing. If your color contrast isn&#8217;t right, it&#8217;s just tweaking your CSS. That&#8217;s a quick fix. Go for the quick fixes, and for the keyboard accessibility. I think that&#8217;s the best way to approach the roadmap.\n\n\n\n[00:31:07] Nathan Wrigley: That&#8217;s a good way to start. Okay, that&#8217;s perfect.\n\n\n\nDoes this affect anything apart from websites? So I&#8217;m imagining situations where, oh I don&#8217;t know, let&#8217;s say that I&#8217;m sending out email and it&#8217;s nothing to do with my website, it&#8217;s a third party piece of software, or I&#8217;ve got, I don&#8217;t know, a CRM system, where customers can log in and see their orders and things like that. So it&#8217;s outside of the website. Does all of this need to be accessible? So we&#8217;ve been talking about websites, and at the beginning we began with ATMs, so I&#8217;m guessing the answer is yes, if anybody can interact with that thing.\n\n\n\n[00:31:38] Rian Rietveld: If a client can do that.\n\n\n\n[00:31:40] Nathan Wrigley: But there might not be any money changing hands with that thing. So I&#8217;m imagining the website, let&#8217;s say that you&#8217;re a website and you&#8217;re selling things, you&#8217;ve got a company with enough employees, you are based in Europe, and you are selling things. So we know you are definitely, the European Accessibility Act, we know that you are under that. But if you are, I don&#8217;t know, sending out email, and there&#8217;s no transaction in that email, it&#8217;s not anything to do with sales, but your company is selling things, how does that work?\n\n\n\n[00:32:07] Rian Rietveld: Well, emails are not really mentioned.\n\n\n\n[00:32:08] Nathan Wrigley: Interesting.\n\n\n\n[00:32:09] Rian Rietveld: It&#8217;s a good way to do it because it&#8217;s communication with your client, and you better make sure your client understands your message. So that&#8217;s good part of your best practice, of your good practice.\n\n\n\n[00:32:19] Nathan Wrigley: But it&#8217;s not specifically tied into the legislation. In theory, you could avoid it. That&#8217;s kind of fascinating that that never got pulled in.\n\n\n\n[00:32:25] Rian Rietveld: In websites?\n\n\n\n[00:32:26] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, just websites. That&#8217;s fascinating.\n\n\n\n[00:32:28] Rian Rietveld: And apps, and also electronic documents. If you have PDFs on your website, they need to be accessible too. And that&#8217;s a good reason to get rid of your PDFs.\n\n\n\n[00:32:36] Nathan Wrigley: Okay, thank you. Would you just tell us a little bit about where we can find you on the internet? Obviously, you are very keen on this subject. I&#8217;m guessing that part of your business might be to do with this as well. So just tell us a little bit about where we can find you, and what kind of things you are doing.\n\n\n\n[00:32:50] Rian Rietveld: You can find me on rianrietveld.com. I&#8217;m doing consultancy and I write documentation. I also train people for web accessibility. If you want an online training, you can go to the A11Y Collective, that&#8217;s a11y-collective.com. We have a couple of online trainings in web accessibility there. There is, for the US WebAIM, webaim.org, and that&#8217;s a large website with excellent information about accessibility.\n\n\n\nAlso on gov.uk, that&#8217;s from the British government, they publish excellent information about accessibility. And if you Google, well, there are many, many companies that provide accessibility consultancy, and also training. Deque is one of them. So there are plenty of them about.\n\n\n\n[00:33:37] Nathan Wrigley: I will make sure that I dig all of those URLs out, and I will paste them on the WP Tavern page, so you&#8217;ll be able to find them there, along with a complete transcript of this episode.\n\n\n\n[00:33:47] Rian Rietveld: That will be great. Yeah.\n\n\n\n[00:33:48] Nathan Wrigley: Yeah, you are very welcome. So thank you Rian Rietveld. I appreciate you chatting to me on the podcast today. I hope that you have a good WordCamp EU.\n\n\n\n[00:33:55] Rian Rietveld: Thank you.\n</div>\n\n\n\nOn the podcast today we have Rian Rietveld.\n\n\n\nRian is a web accessibility specialist from the Netherlands. As a freelance accessibility consultant she works for NL Design System, the WordPress agency Level Level and the form plugin Gravity Forms. She also teaches at the online learning platform The A11Y Collective. She loves to share her knowledge on WordCamps, meetups, workshops and accessibility conferences worldwide.\n\n\n\nToday we talk about the accessibility requirements of the European Accessibility Act or EAA, which will be enforced by June 28th, 2025. This legislation mandates that public service websites, products, and services be accessible to all people.\n\n\n\nRian clarifies the key aspects of the EAA, particularly focusing on websites, but we also touch upon other areas such as apps, and PDFs. She emphasises the importance of ensuring accessibility not only because of the legal requirements but also due to the moral obligation to include individuals with disabilities who access the web using a variety of different mechanisms such as screen readers and keyboards.\n\n\n\nWe discuss practical ways to achieve web accessibility, for example using default accessible themes in vanilla WordPress and writing accessible content. Rian also highlights the need for constant monitoring and training within teams to maintain accessibility standards, especially focusing on keyboard accessibility and colour contrast.\n\n\n\nFinancial incentives for making websites accessible are another point we talk about, as accessible websites can lead to increased revenue by catering to a broader audience, including the 20% of the population that relies on accessible websites. Additionally, Rian points out that an accessible website can significantly impact SEO and customer engagement.\n\n\n\nTowards the end of the podcast, we talk about the importance of having an accessibility statement for websites in Europe, the differences in the requirements between the EU and other parts of the world, and the benefits of hiring a professional to conduct an accessibility audit. She also addresses exemptions for small companies, but notes the overall benefit of compliance for reaching more customers.\n\n\n\nIf you’re interested in understanding the implications of the European Accessibility Act and how to make your websites more inclusive, this episode is for you.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/07/03/the-european-accessibility-act-explained/\">The European Accessibility Act explained</a> on WordPress.tv\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.nldesignsystem.nl/\">NL Design System</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://level-level.com/\">Level Level agency</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.gravityforms.com/\">Gravity Forms</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/wcag/\">WCAG guidelines</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://rianrietveld.com/\">Rian&#8217;s website</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.a11y-collective.com/\">The A11Y Collective</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://webaim.org/\">WebAIM</a>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.gov.uk/guidance/guidance-and-tools-for-digital-accessibility\">Guidance and tools for digital accessibility</a> from gov.uk\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://www.deque.com/\">Deque</a>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 10 Jul 2024 14:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:89:\"Do The Woo Community: Walking the Floor at WCEU Talking Accessibility with Taeke Reijenga\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84570\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"https://dothewoo.io/walking-the-floor-at-wceu-talking-accessibility-with-taeke-reijenga/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:25294:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-64 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-63 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-13 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-60 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-25 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-59 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1224\" height=\"1224\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Hostinger_Vertical_Purple-e1668465093968.jpg?resize=1224%2C1224&ssl=1\" alt=\"Hostinger\" class=\"wp-image-73505\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://hostinger.com\">Hostinger</a>: As a builder or an agency managing multiple sites, check out Hostinger. Whether you are building a WordPress site or specifically, a Woo store, their infrastructure brings your clients sites speed, uptime and security.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-14 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-62 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-27 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-61 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"500\" height=\"500\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Omnisend-square.jpg?resize=500%2C500&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-78802\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://your.omnisend.com/onlywoo_dothewoo\">Omnisend</a>: Whether it&#8217;s for integration into your Woo product, or building sites for clients, Omnisend is the solution for email and SMS marketing with their CRM solution for WooCommerce shops and your own website.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nTaeke: Hey guys and girls, and anything in between. This is Taeke, your host from the accessibility podcast. It&#8217;s just me today. I saw Anne-Mieke running around, which is understandable as she is one of the organizers of WordCamp Europe that we&#8217;re currently attending. We&#8217;re going to freestyle a bit, so I&#8217;ll just walk around and ask some people about accessibility: what it means for them, if it&#8217;s something that is part of their daily practice, if it&#8217;s new to them, anything. So let&#8217;s get started. Hey there, this is, let&#8217;s see, Manuela van Prooijen. How are you doing? Hi.\n\n\n\nManuela: I am fine, thank you. This is quite a spread.\n\n\n\nTaeke: It&#8217;s been a couple of years.\n\n\n\nManuela: Yes. The last time we met was at Porto WordCamp Europe.\n\n\n\nTaeke: And that&#8217;s when you decided to move to Portugal.\n\n\n\nManuela: That&#8217;s right. That&#8217;s my home base now.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Really cool. This is the Do the Woo accessibility podcast. So I wanted to ask you a couple of questions about accessibility. Is there anything that you do in your daily life that involves accessibility?\n\n\n\nManuela: Yeah. Over the past few years, I&#8217;ve developed training programs specifically for virtual assistants to bridge the gap between backend developers and marketing teams to provide a hands-on workforce for bridging accessibility gaps. So I have this program, and it&#8217;s very successful in the Netherlands.\n\n\n\nTaeke: So you&#8217;re basically training the new generation to help us out?\n\n\n\nManuela: Yes. With the upcoming European Accessibility Act, it&#8217;s very important not just to have auditors or programmers, but people who can provide hands-on workforce.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Yeah, that&#8217;s amazing. And I totally agree. I mean, I foresee a bit of an issue with this act coming up. At the moment that we are recording, this is one year and 14 days away.\n\n\n\nManuela: Yes, it&#8217;s almost one year away, but it&#8217;s getting closer.\n\n\n\nTaeke: It&#8217;s getting closer. The clock is ticking. Next booth, I see a booth for Equalize Digital, and I know they do something with accessibility. Hi there. Who are you? What do you do at Equalize Digital?\n\n\n\nSteve: Hello, I am Steve Jones. I am the CTO at Equalize Digital. We are an accessibility product and services company specializing in accessibility. We have a plugin called the Accessibility Checker that scans your websites for accessibility issues.\n\n\n\nTaeke: And I heard something, and I see it on your booth. You landed an amazing client not too long ago, or maybe some time ago, but they launched not too long ago.\n\n\n\nSteve: They have a lot of things, but the client you&#8217;re speaking of is NASA. Last year, we were brought in as the accessibility team for the NASA project. NASA built a new website on top of WordPress, and we were lucky enough to be brought in to audit the code being developed by the Lone Rock Agency for the NASA website. It was an exciting time, and it actually has extended to just recently. We&#8217;ve still been doing some audits on that and providing accessibility feedback.\n\n\n\nTaeke: That&#8217;s amazing. Congrats on that. That&#8217;s a cool name to have in your portfolio, right?\n\n\n\nSteve: Absolutely.\n\n\n\nTaeke: So is it just these big names that you work for? I imagine that the plugin is for anyone to install. Can you tell a little bit more about the plugin, what it does, and why I should install it on my website?\n\n\n\nSteve: Yeah, we don&#8217;t just do huge, awesome, interesting clients like NASA, although that is great. The bulk of our clients are medium to large agencies. We do a lot of enterprise website development that is accessible, and like you said, we have our Accessibility Checker plugin. This plugin has a full-featured free version available on WordPress.org. It sits inside your WordPress admin and evaluates your post or page for accessibility issues in real-time.\n\n\n\nTaeke: So this really helps editorial teams in writing their content because they get immediate feedback, right?\n\n\n\nSteve: Yes, it&#8217;s never enough to launch a website and say it&#8217;s accessible and then leave it. Especially WordPress websites. They&#8217;re a living, breathing machine. So accessibility is something that needs to be evaluated with every publish.\n\n\n\nTaeke: It&#8217;s not just about developers being trained.\n\n\n\nSteve: Content creators,\n\n\n\nTaeke: Content creators, designers. It&#8217;s a team effort. Is there anything you want to add or share with us? Otherwise, I&#8217;m going to move along and see if there are more sponsors here that do anything with accessibility.\n\n\n\nSteve: For any freelancers or agencies or large agencies out there, consider accessibility a priority. Put accessibility first.\n\n\n\nTaeke: I do have one last question. Why is it so important for you? Is it the law or is there a more ethical motivation? What brought you to accessibility as a niche?\n\n\n\nSteve: Well, there is a legal aspect and an ethical aspect to it. Of course, a lot of companies do need to legally comply. The European Accessibility Act will be enacted next year. So there&#8217;s a lot in that respect. But there&#8217;s the ethical side too. At Equalize Digital, we lean more on the ethical side. It’s the right thing to do. Anybody should be able to use the internet. Societies across the world are becoming increasingly digital for basic tasks like getting medical supplies and filling out government paperwork. They shouldn&#8217;t be met with blockers along the way. They should be able to access and submit information as easily as people without any disabilities.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Yeah, totally agree. And it’s exactly the same philosophy that we live by. It’s more the ethical argument that weighs stronger than any law. It’s about democratizing publishing, making sure that the web is open and can be used by anyone in any situation, whether it’s a temporary or a more permanent one. In the end, we’ll all grow older.\n\n\n\nSteve: Yeah, I mean, we’re building an internet for our future selves. We will get older, and we will have degenerative issues, eyesight issues typically. It’s funny that you bring up democratizing publishing because our CEO, Amber Hines, likes to say that we’re trying to democratize accessibility.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Thanks very much.\n\n\n\nSteve: Alright, thank you.\n\n\n\nTaeke: And while I’m approaching the Do the Woo booth at WordCamp Europe, I see another amazing person that I want to ask some questions. We’re going to see an amazing talk by Fel about the European Accessibility Acts that we extensively discussed already. And I just ran into Bet.\n\n\n\nBet: Hey.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Hey, Bet, how are you?\n\n\n\nBet: I’m good. How are you?\n\n\n\nTaeke: I’m good. How are you enjoying WordCamp Europe?\n\n\n\nBet: I am enjoying it a lot.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Yeah. What brought you here?\n\n\n\nBet: I get to talk to all kinds of people about accessibility.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Awesome. Just accessibility?\n\n\n\nBet: Well, selling myself, yeah.\n\n\n\nTaeke: What we’re doing. Well, sell yourself to the audience. Who are you? What do you do?\n\n\n\nBet: I’m Ben Hannon. I’m the CEO of AccessiCart. We do web accessibility for e-commerce and other folks too, but primarily e-commerce. We work on WordPress, Shopify, and Magento.\n\n\n\nTaeke: And what does that mean, &#8220;we work on&#8221;?\n\n\n\nBet: We do accessibility consulting and testing for those platforms, and then we can do remediations in WordPress, but not on the others. We tend to partner with agencies, working alongside them to identify issues, prioritize them, help them solve them, and retest and document everything.\n\n\n\nTaeke: You guide them through the process with the aim of going from one project to the other or training them on the job and letting them go at some point?\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, we build up the skills of the developers there. We do some project work, project management for remediation, or consulting for a development project. But our bread and butter is doing accessibility maintenance plans. Accessibility can be affected by any kind of content change. Sometimes even a plugin update can make something inaccessible. So we work with them to monitor and work on the sites continuously. For many, it’s about identifying and solving a few problems every month, step by step.\n\n\n\nTaeke: And that gets them documentation that shows they’re making incremental progress. It’s about showing they’re taking it seriously, right?\n\n\n\nBet: Exactly. And having those documented reports makes it more affordable for many people to begin thinking about doing it in smaller chunks.\n\n\n\nTaeke: You’re from the US, right?\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, I’m from Oregon.\n\n\n\nTaeke: So you deal with the Americans with Disabilities Act mainly?\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, but we also have clients who need to comply with EU laws.\n\n\n\nTaeke: If you look at the European Accessibility Act and compare it to what’s already happening in the US under the ADA, do you see a difference?\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, the EU law will have a much bigger impact. The ADA was enacted 40 years ago, before websites, so it wasn’t written for websites. Lawsuits are brought under the ADA, and courts usually say you have to remediate to WCAG 2.1 AA. But the EAA talks about those standards plus regular testing and reporting, which isn’t required in the US unless they have EU customers.\n\n\n\nTaeke:\n\n\n\nSo the European Accessibility Act is really an act about accessibility, and it’s up to the European countries to implement it into law. It’s inclusive.\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, and in some countries, like Germany, competitors can file a complaint, which really motivates people to get that competitive advantage.\n\n\n\nTaeke: I hope there’s enforcement and it’s taken seriously. From Europe, we look at the US and see it as the Wild West with the ADA.\n\n\n\nBet: Yes, the European Accessibility Act is friendlier but has a bigger impact. It’s about being inclusive.\n\n\n\nTaeke: With only one year to go, I’m a bit worried that we’re not ready for this.\n\n\n\nBet: But there’s more awareness now. Agencies and clients are starting to realize they need to step up.\n\n\n\nTaeke: It’s a mindset. If we don’t feel it, if we don’t have the empathy to understand what it’s like not to be able to use the web, then…\n\n\n\nBet: Exactly. If you’re lucky enough not to die suddenly, you’ll probably need accessibility.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Yes. Someone mentioned we’re building the accessible web for ourselves. We’ll all grow older and benefit from this. Thanks for the catch-up, Bet. Let’s see if we can get you on the show soon.\n\n\n\nBet: That would be great. Thanks a lot.\n\n\n\nAsh: My name is Ash Shaw. I’m from Lightspeed WordPress Agency. We did some testing using BrowserStack accessibility tools and PageSpeed Lighthouse. We’ve been fixing issues within our free open-source theme listed on WordPress.org.\n\n\n\nTaeke: What’s it called?\n\n\n\nAsh: NSX Design. None of our software in the past was accessible. After we purchased courses from the A11Y Collective, we skilled up in accessibility. My designer, developers, and I all skilled up.\n\n\n\nTaeke: That’s amazing.\n\n\n\nAsh: It made a huge difference to our understanding of accessibility and compatibility. We have clients worldwide, but mainly in South Africa. Now that we have a base that is accessible, we can build accessible sites.\n\n\n\nTaeke: You’ve just taken the first steps towards full accessibility in your client work?\n\n\n\nAsh: Yes. We’re using tools like Stark as a browser extension and in Figma. We’re dealing with contrast issues, button sizes, font sizes, etc. Yesterday, I worked with the accessibility table at Contributor Day and got input on our theme issues. Some issues are in Core or WooCommerce or Gravity Forms.\n\n\n\nTaeke: I know there are issues in WordPress and WooCommerce, but I also know people are taking it seriously. After WordCamp Europe, WooCommerce will work on their plugin and address 50-60 accessibility issues.\n\n\n\nAsh: Yes, Amber Hinds is leading that. I reported the issues I found, and she’s logging them as GitHub issues.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Thank you for that contribution.\n\n\n\nAsh: It was a fun day. I learned a lot. My developers struggled at first but eventually got it.\n\n\n\nTaeke: It takes time to go from awareness to practice. That’s why it’s important to start working on accessibility now, especially with the European Accessibility Act in mind. It’s only a year away.\n\n\n\nAsh: Now that we have this knowledge, every project we do will use these tools. We get free access to the BrowserStack accessibility tool, and I’ve recommended it to other users.\n\n\n\nTaeke: A lot more people will thank you for that suggestion because this is the Do the Woo podcast on accessibility. This will be broadcasted after WordCamp Europe. Thank you for all the tips and your experiences. I’m going to see if I can tackle a few more people and hear their stories about accessibility. Thanks a lot.\n\n\n\nAsh: Thanks, man. See you.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Hello Ingrid. Can you tell us a little bit about what you’re doing here, what you’re promoting here at the Accessibility Collective booth?\n\n\n\nIngrid: We are an e-learning platform with courses for designers, developers, and content writers, mostly marketers, to ensure the web is fully accessible.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Is there a lot of interest in the booth today?\n\n\n\nIngrid: Yes, definitely. From frontend developers, backend developers, and plugin creators. It’s a diverse audience, which is fun to talk to about accessibility.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Who is the Accessibility Collective aimed at? Is it for a specific discipline?\n\n\n\nIngrid: It’s important for all disciplines creating or writing content for the web to ensure full accessibility. It’s a team effort.\n\n\n\nTaeke: I see a potential candidate for a small interview. Hi Josepha. Can I ask you a couple of questions? This is the Accessibility Podcast from Do the Woo.\n\n\n\nJosepha: By some fluke of nature, we also have the current project ambassador from the TYPO3 Project.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Wow, that’s amazing.\n\n\n\nJosepha: You can ask us both a question.\n\n\n\nTaeke: Can you tell me what accessibility, specifically web accessibility, means to you personally or professionally?\n\n\n\nJosepha: I think the most important thing about accessibility that people often overlook is that it is a subset of usability. We are all just temporarily fully abled. Just because you feel accessibility doesn’t apply to you now, doesn’t mean it won’t later. It’s something we should all care about because we are a global project trying to make the world a better place, making commerce and access to cool stuff better and easier for more people.\n\n\n\nTaeke: That’s a great opinion. Thank you for that.\n\n\n\nMathias: My name is Mathias Bolt Lesniak. I am the project ambassador of TYPO3, a friendly cousin CMS to WordPress. We work together in the Open Website Alliance. My elevator pitch about accessibility is this: I once stood in front of an elevator in a hotel and pressed the button. The elevator came with a person inside who asked, “Where am I?” The elevator had braille everywhere, but the key card scanner wasn’t marked in braille. It’s an excellent example of how important accessibility is. You can’t just do it as an afterthought. You have to think through it the whole way. If you skip a step, you lose the visitor.\n\n\n\nTaeke: You ruin the experience, you lose the visitor. It’s a great example, especially in digital accessibility for e-commerce. The whole store can be accessible, but maybe the marketing team forgot something, and the user experience is ruined. Thanks very much.\n\n\n\nMathias: Thank you.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nWelcome to this special episode of All Things WordPress and WooCommerce accessibility podcast, recorded live at WordCamp Europe. In this episode, your host Taeke takes you on a journey through the bustling conference, engaging with various experts and enthusiasts in the field of web accessibility.\n\n\n\nFirst, Taeke catches up with Manuela van Prooijen, who has developed a successful training program for virtual assistants in the Netherlands to bridge accessibility gaps between backend developers and marketing teams. Next, he speaks with Steve Jones, the CTO at Equalize Digital, who shares insights about their Accessibility Checker plugin and their notable collaboration with NASA. Then, Taeke interviews Bet Hannon, CEO of AccessiCart, who discusses their work on web accessibility for e-commerce platforms like WordPress, Shopify, and Magento.\n\n\n\nThe episode also features a conversation with Ash Shaw from Lightspeed WordPress Agency, who shares their journey towards building accessible sites and the tools they use. Additionally, Ingrid from the Accessibility Collective talks about their e-learning platform aimed at making the web fully accessible for everyone. Finally, Taeke has an enlightening discussion with Josepha from Automattic, and Mathias Bolt Lesniak, the project ambassador of TYPO3, who highlight the importance of comprehensive accessibility planning. Join us as we explore these valuable perspectives on creating a more inclusive web.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Hightlights</h2>\n\n\n\nTraining for Accessibility: Manuela van Prooijen highlights the importance of training virtual assistants to bridge accessibility gaps between backend developers and marketing teams, emphasizing the need for hands-on workforce in the Netherlands.\n\n\n\nAccessibility Tools: Steve Jones from Equalize Digital discusses their Accessibility Checker plugin, which evaluates website accessibility issues in real-time, and shares their experience working with NASA to ensure the accessibility of their new WordPress website.\n\n\n\nEcommerce Accessibility: Ben Hannon, CEO of AccessiCart, explains their approach to making e-commerce platforms like WordPress, Shopify, and Magento accessible, focusing on consulting, testing, and maintaining accessibility over time.\n\n\n\nBuilding Accessible Foundations: Ash Shaw from Lightspeed WordPress Agency talks about their efforts to build accessible websites from the ground up, using tools like BrowserStack and Figma to address issues like color contrast and font sizes.\n\n\n\nTeam Effort in Accessibility: Ingrid from the Accessibility Collective emphasizes that creating accessible web content requires collaboration across all disciplines, including designers, developers, and content writers, to ensure a fully inclusive web experience.\n\n\n\nHolistic Accessibility Planning: Mathias Bolt Lesniak, the project ambassador of TYPO3, shares a real-world example illustrating the importance of thorough accessibility planning, stressing that skipping any step in the process can ruin the user experience.\n\n\n\nEthical and Legal Motivations: Several participants, including Steve Jones and Ben Hannon, highlight the dual motivations for accessibility—both ethical (making the web usable for everyone) and legal (complying with laws like the European Accessibility Act and the ADA in the US).\n\n\n\nFuture-proofing: The discussions underscore the importance of building an accessible web not just for current users but also for future generations, as everyone will benefit from accessible design as they age or face temporary or permanent disabilities.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.a11y-collective.com/\">A11Y Collective</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://accessicart.com/\">AccessiCart</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://equalizedigital.com/\">Equalize Digital</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://lightspeedwp.agency/\">Lightspeed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://typo3.org/\">TYPO3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://weblish.nl/\">Weblish</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashshaw/\">Ash Shaw on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/bethannon/\">Bet Hannon on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/ingrid-lentz-coelho-toscano-5080a714/\">Ingrid Lentz on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephahaden/overlay/about-this-profile/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/manuelavanprooijen/overlay/about-this-profile/\">Manuela van Prooijen on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathias-bolt-lesniak/overlay/about-this-profile/\">Mathias Bolt Lesniak on LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevejonesdev/\"> Steve Jones on LinkedIn</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 10 Jul 2024 09:02:42 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.6 Release Candidate 3\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=17497\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-release-candidate-3/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9307:\"WordPress 6.6 RC3 is ready for download and testing!\n\n\n\nThis version of the WordPress software is under development. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, please evaluate RC3 on a test server or a local environment.\n\n\n\nReaching this phase of the release cycle is a worthy achievement. While release candidates are considered ready for release, your testing is still vital to make sure everything in WordPress 6.6 is the best it can be.\n\n\n\nYou can test WordPress 6.6 RC3 in four ways:\n\n\n\n<table><tbody><tr><th>Plugin</th><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream).</td></tr><tr><th>Direct Download</th><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.6-RC3.zip\">RC3 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><th>Command Line</th><td>Use the this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <code>wp core update --version=6.6-RC3</code></td></tr><tr><th>WordPress Playground</th><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/#%7B%20%22preferredVersions%22:%20%7B%20%22php%22:%20%228.0%22,%20%22wp%22:%20%22beta%22%20%7D,%20%22features%22:%20%7B%20%22networking%22:%20true%20%7D,%20%22steps%22:%20[%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22login%22,%20%22username%22:%20%22admin%22,%20%22password%22:%20%22password%22%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wpaccessibility/a11y-theme-unit-test/master/a11y-theme-unit-test-data.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22importFile%22,%20%22file%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22url%22,%20%22url%22:%20%22https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WordPress/theme-test-data/master/themeunittestdata.wordpress.xml%22%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22query-monitor%22%20%7D,%20%22options%22:%20%7B%20%22activate%22:%20false%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22create-block-theme%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22debug-bar%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22health-check%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22test-reports%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D,%20%7B%20%22step%22:%20%22installPlugin%22,%20%22pluginZipFile%22:%20%7B%20%22resource%22:%20%22wordpress.org/plugins%22,%20%22slug%22:%20%22user-switching%22%20%7D,%20%22progress%22:%20%7B%20%22weight%22:%202%20%7D%20%7D%20]%20%7D\">6.6 RC3 WordPress Playground instance</a> (available within 35 minutes after the release is ready) to test the software directly in your browser without the need for a separate site or setup.</td></tr></tbody></table>Please test WordPress 6.6 RC3 in one or more of these four ways.\n\n\n\nThe target for the WordPress 6.6 release is next Tuesday, July 16, 2024. Get an overview of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\">6.6 release cycle</a>, and check the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-6/\">6.6-related posts</a> in the next few weeks for further details.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in WordPress 6.6 RC3?</h2>\n\n\n\nThanks to your testing (and many other contributors‘ up to now) this release includes eight bug fixes for the Editor and <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&milestone=6.6&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">18 tickets for WordPress Core</a>.\n\n\n\nGet a recap of WordPress 6.6’s highlighted features in the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-6-beta-1/\">Beta 1 announcement</a>. For more technical information related to issues addressed since RC 2, you can browse the following links:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.6?since=2024-07-02&until=2024-07-09\">GitHub commits for 6.6</a> since July 2</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=06%2F25%2F2024..07%2F01%2F2024&milestone=6.6&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">Closed Trac </a><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&changetime=07%2F02%2F2024..07%2F09%2F2024&milestone=6.6&col=id&col=milestone&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=id\">tickets</a> since July 2</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nWant to look deeper into the details and technical notes for this release? You might want to make your first stop <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/wordpress-6-6-field-guide/\">The WordPress 6.6 Field Guide</a>. Then, check out this list:\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/roster-of-design-tools-per-block-wordpress-6-6-edition/\">Roster of design tools per block (WordPress 6.6 edition)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/dev-notes+6-6/\">All 6.6-related developer notes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">You can contribute. Here&#8217;s how</h2>\n\n\n\nWordPress is the world’s most popular open source web platform, thanks to a passionate community of people who collaborate on its development in a wide variety of ways. You can help—whether or not you have any technical expertise.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved in testing</h3>\n\n\n\nTesting for issues is critical to keeping WordPress speedy, stable, and secure. It’s also a vital way for anyone to contribute. <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\">This detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.6. If you&#8217;re new to testing, follow <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2024/06/03/help-test-wordpress-6-6/\">this general testing guide</a> for more details on getting set up.\n\n\n\nIf you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums. If you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report, you can also report it on <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a>. Before you do either, you may want to check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.\n\n\n\nCurious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Please update your WordPress product</h3>\n\n\n\nIf you build themes, plugins, blocks, or patterns, your efforts play an integral role in adding new functionality to WordPress and helping bring new people and ideas to the most vibrant (and massive!) open source community in the world.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nThanks for continuing to test your products with the WordPress 6.6 betas and release candidates. With RC3, you’ll want to make sure everything is working smoothly, and if it&#8217;s a plugin, update the “Tested up to” version in its <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/how-your-readme-txt-works/\">readme file</a> to 6.6.\n\n\n\nIf you find compatibility issues, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forum</a>.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Help translate WordPress</h3>\n\n\n\nDo you speak a language other than English? ¿Español? Français? Русский? 日本語? हिन्दी? বাংলা? You can <a href=\"https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp/dev/\">help translate WordPress into more than 100 languages</a>.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The RC3 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\nOne week to go. Then: Open the paintbox! Try the tools! Play a new jazz tune.\n\n\n\nProps to <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/meher/\" class=\"mention\">@meher</a> and <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/audrasjb/\" class=\"mention\">@audrasjb</a>. for peer review.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 09 Jul 2024 17:39:24 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"marybaum\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:79:\"Do The Woo Community: A Journey and the Evolution of WooCommerce with Beka Rice\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:28:\"https://dothewoo.io/?p=84508\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:76:\"https://dothewoo.io/the-journey-and-evolution-of-woocommerce-with-beka-rice/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:45636:\"<div class=\"wp-block-group has-border-color has-light-gray-background-color has-background has-small-font-size has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-69 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nThis show is sponsored by&#8230;\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-vertical is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-68 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-15 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group is-nowrap is-layout-flex wp-container-core-group-is-layout-67 wp-block-group-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-base-background-color has-background wp-container-content-29 has-global-padding is-content-justification-left is-layout-constrained wp-container-core-group-is-layout-66 wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<img width=\"1650\" height=\"1650\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/dothewoo.io/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/avalara-logo-_dtw.png?resize=1650%2C1650&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-75400\" />\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<a href=\"https://developer.avalara.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Avalara</a>: help developers make sure their Woo projects are tax compliance done right with Avalara&#8217;s API. Visit their extensive developer resources today.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\nEpisode Transcript\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-global-padding is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\nZach: Zach Stepek here again with Carl Alexander for another episode of the Do the Woo Dev Chats. Carl, how are you doing, man?\n\n\n\nCarl: I had a good WordCamp EU, but I got Covid, so I&#8217;m slightly recovering from that now. I&#8217;ll be muting my phone so I can cough silently in my apartment, but otherwise, I&#8217;m doing quite well. How about you?\n\n\n\nZach: While you were in Europe getting Covid, I had bronchitis in the US. It’s just been a fun month for respiratory things, evidently.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, apparently summer is now the time for respiratory issues. Usually, we&#8217;re from the north, so it&#8217;s a winter thing. Winter is when all the bugs come out.\n\n\n\nZach: Yes, unless you&#8217;re talking about cicadas, which have been recent. Those are the bugs that came out this summer for a lot of the Upper Midwest and a bunch of other places too. So that&#8217;s been fun. And we as developers, of course, know how to deal with bugs evidently. It’s been a very interesting month, watching some of the changes around Do the Woo. If you&#8217;ve missed that and you just come to listen to the dulcet tones of myself and Carl talking with developers about nerdy things,\n\n\n\nCarl: It&#8217;s mostly your dulcet tones. I don&#8217;t think my tones are dulcet at all.\n\n\n\nZach: Well, some people may be attracted to the accent, my friend. That being said, if you haven&#8217;t heard about the changes around Do the Woo, Bob did a great episode summarizing what shows there are now. We&#8217;re up to 12 shows, so I encourage you to check out some of those other shows if you haven&#8217;t yet. The most recent is our Enterprise WordPress and WooCommerce show, which is pretty cool, partnered with the Scale Consortium for that. So really cool stuff. But yeah, we&#8217;re growing and changing, and that&#8217;s always nice to see. This month we have decided to invite a friend I&#8217;ve known for a very long time now, Beka Rice, to join us here on the dev chat. Let&#8217;s start out, Beka, by introducing you a bit and seeing how you have been in the last month.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yes, I am one of the lucky folks who did not get Covid from WordCamp Europe, so very grateful for that. I had enough respiratory illnesses this winter that I am glad to be done with it, but it&#8217;s good to see you guys again. As Zach noted, I&#8217;m Beka Rice. I&#8217;ve worked with WooCommerce since 2013, maybe even before that. It&#8217;s been a long time—since I think version 1.4 if I go back in time a bit. I was one of the original folks at SkyVerge; Max, Justin, and I were partners there. We worked at SkyVerge for a long time and were acquired by GoDaddy in 2020. I still worked in the Woo ecosystem but had a number of other responsibilities and projects I was working on there as well. I left earlier this year after a few years of doing some really cool stuff but wanted to be back working with a small team. So now I have reentered the Woo atmosphere and am very excited to be back doing specific work with a small team again at Kestrel. It was nice to reconnect with a lot of people at WCEU, so if you were one of them, it was very good to see you again.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, no, that&#8217;s quite a journey. I tell the story of how I got into WooCommerce—building a website for a record label I was part of, using the white light theme back in the day.\n\n\n\nBeka: It wasn&#8217;t Canvas?\n\n\n\nZach: No, I used white light because it had the look that I was after. Those were very interesting days. One of my favorite parts of that time period was the fact that it was kind of the Wild West of WooCommerce. The fork had just happened recently, and we were all starting to adopt it and get into it. There was this Trello board with all these ideas for integrations and plugins, and people would go in there, claim the things they wanted to build, and then build them. Suddenly, we had this ecosystem of plugins and extensions for WooCommerce that started to grow. You and Max and Justin were very early in all of that. I know there were some cards that were claimed that you didn&#8217;t end up building. One in particular was taken over by someone else when the bandwidth just wasn&#8217;t there to do it. I think that was subscriptions, right?\n\n\n\nBeka: Well, I would have to ask them if that was a card they had talked about or not, but there were a number in the early days. I think &#8220;Wild West&#8221; is a great way to describe it because the community was so small at that point that you had a couple handfuls of developers who had gotten into WooCommerce, but there weren&#8217;t very many. There were more integrations and ideas and extensions than could simply be built by that small group of people. So certainly Max and Justin were earlier with that. I wasn&#8217;t developing anything at that time myself; I was more so doing documentation and support. But yeah, there were a lot of things that got built, some things that didn&#8217;t, some ideas that probably were big misses still. But with subscriptions in particular, that landing with Brent was probably a great thing all around. You can&#8217;t be mad about a really fantastic piece of software that someone else built.\n\n\n\nZach: I don&#8217;t think so. Honestly, the ecosystem wouldn&#8217;t have Action Scheduler if that hadn&#8217;t happened. For those who don&#8217;t know, WooCommerce Subscriptions is what birthed Action Scheduler, which is the way WooCommerce handles asynchronous tasks in the background. Brent Shepherd and his team did all the work to make that happen. I still have my blue T-shirt, the collaborative T-shirt between SkyVerge and Prospress, the Subscriptions team. One of my profile photos that I frequently go back to is me wearing that shirt with a leather sport coat over it next to a performing arts venue that&#8217;s now five minutes from my house. It’s one of my favorite pictures, and it was taken by my former business partner, Scott.\n\n\n\nBeka: A lot of fond memories of those times for sure.\n\n\n\nZach: We were still technically just exiting that Wild West era when the first WooConf happened, and we all got together in Austin. What year was that?\n\n\n\nBeka: The second WooConf in Austin? Yeah, I think it was 2015.\n\n\n\nZach: You and I both spoke at 2017; we were secondary keynotes then, so that was Seattle.\n\n\n\nBeka: We&#8217;re testing our memories here, Zach. But yes, there was one in San Francisco early on that was much smaller, then Austin, and then Seattle. All were really wonderful conferences. I would love to see something like that again in the Woo ecosystem.\n\n\n\nCarl: I tell them all the time, every WooCommerce event. Zach can&#8217;t go, but I crash all the WooCommerce events and consistently remind them they should have a dedicated WooCommerce event.\n\n\n\nZach: A few people are calling for that now, and it&#8217;s a common thing. We miss it because it was our chance as a community to not only gather and be a community of builders and developers in one location but also a way to show off the cool stuff that&#8217;s been happening.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, it’s hard in Woo, right? With it being decentralized, you don&#8217;t always have a view of what other people are doing. There&#8217;s no one source, not even Automattic, that knows every WooCommerce site out there. I think it was super valuable to see that across the community.\n\n\n\nCarl: For me, it was more networking. I was trying to find agencies that specialize in that or people that worked with it more because it&#8217;s hard at WordCamps. It’s people doing a bit of everything, so it&#8217;s hard to find the people that specialize in that. I&#8217;m actually really thankful I broke in because Bob sent me an invite that he couldn&#8217;t go to the first WordCamp Asia in Bangkok, and that got the ball rolling for me. A lot of WooCommerce people hang on the sidelines a bit at these WordCamps, so it&#8217;s hard to know who specializes in it, what the big agencies are, the big plugin companies, the big extension companies, who&#8217;s doing cool stuff. It’s just really hard to find them.\n\n\n\nZach: Yeah, it is, and I think Brian has done a great job with WooSesh, trying to keep some of that alive virtually, but virtual events don&#8217;t compare to being in person with a group of people. It&#8217;s still fun. I enjoy them. I love what WooSesh and WordSesh have done for the community, but it&#8217;s different than gathering in person.\n\n\n\nCarl: Some conferences, like WPCampus, do a hybrid. I got accepted to speak this year but couldn&#8217;t go physically, so I declined because I&#8217;m like you. I think the physical connection aspect, the physical networking in person, is way better than virtual. So if that&#8217;s your goal, it&#8217;s really important. Conferences, it’s hard when you do purely virtual. I think it&#8217;s good that some events are trying to do this hybrid format at least to accommodate the speakers because it&#8217;s also about the speakers. It costs a lot of money. I think WPCampus actually has a bit of a stipend, but WordCamps don&#8217;t. So there’s financial accessibility, a question of how comfortable you are traveling. So I think it&#8217;s great to have these hybrid events, but for the speakers and attendees, there&#8217;s a big difference.\n\n\n\nZach: It is. Right now, the designer and developer community are coming together in a virtual and physical hybrid event for Figma, right? Figma has their Config event happening yesterday and today as we&#8217;re recording. They&#8217;ve taken a hybrid model as well. They have a limited number of in-person tickets that sold out, and everybody else can attend virtually, which is pretty cool. I hope to see\n\n\n\nmore events do that, take that hybrid approach, limit the number of attendees, but offer the people who couldn&#8217;t attend in person to attend virtually. It seems to be a really good model. The hardest part with that model is the participation of virtual people compared to those in person. I don&#8217;t think anybody&#8217;s really cracked the code on that yet. We&#8217;ll see, though. We&#8217;ll see if somebody figures that one out.\n\n\n\nCarl: I remember there were these little virtual pixel 16-bit hallways during Covid. Some people, you could walk around and I was just like, no, thank you. I&#8217;m a bonafide nerd. I&#8217;m 41, started coding at seven. My first computer was a Phillips, which I learned something insane, that Phillips spawned ASML and so did TMSC. I always associated Phillips with shaving razors, but apparently, they were really good at computers.\n\n\n\nZach: They did a great job in the semiconductor industry and other parts of the computer industry. They&#8217;re also huge in medical. They’re kind of everywhere. I worked on a project back in my Adobe days. I was working on a Flex application built for a subsidiary of Siemens called Sorian, called Med Suite. It was an electronic medical record system built entirely in Adobe Flex.\n\n\n\nBeka: See, I find it interesting that you guys got into programming and the tech ecosystem prior to, let&#8217;s say, Woo or WordPress. Woo and WordPress is actually what got me into the ecosystem. My background was not in tech. I used WordPress early on to manage my website. The reason I learned HTML and then CSS was trying to insert tables on a website. How do I do this? There&#8217;s no WordPress to do a table. How do I do tables? Then, after you learn HTML and CSS, you keep going—PHP, you start to learn JavaScript. Even though I wouldn&#8217;t consider myself a very talented developer at this point, it’s never been my focus. I learned a lot about building and got into different ecosystems, different applications, worked extensively in Shopify, but have worked on e-commerce platform infrastructure as well. Since you&#8217;ve done other things outside the ecosystem prior to working with Woo and Prospress, and I have post working with it, how do you feel like the ecosystem these days compares? It&#8217;s definitely more mature than the early days. As a developer, if you were coming into this ecosystem today, are there things you would expect that you don&#8217;t see?\n\n\n\nZach: I think if I were coming in new right now, the thing that would bother me the most is how to add a table that I can actually use in the block editor to call back your table story. The table block kind of sucks right now. Sorry to those responsible for that block, but at least I filed a bug report.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, now you’re responsible for giving them the feedback.\n\n\n\nZach: It&#8217;s inflexible. There&#8217;s barely anything you can do with it beyond displaying data. Not a lot of options to customize beyond that. The ecosystem is interesting. It is at this inflection point between what it used to be, primarily PHP, and what it&#8217;s becoming, this hybrid of PHP and React, JavaScript, and whatever new technology we want to insert next. The interaction API isn&#8217;t react. It&#8217;s something else. I can&#8217;t remember what the framework is. Is it Alpine JS?\n\n\n\nCarl: No, we were saying they should have. We had a conversation with Marcel and Mike when we did our joint. I have a lot of thoughts on the current state because I teach a lot of programming. I wrote an object-oriented programming book for WordPress developers that teaches computer science topics. It’s a huge loss to WordPress that you can&#8217;t do what you went through.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, it&#8217;s really easy to get started with React, and then 27 steps later, now you can finally write some code.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, exactly. It’s not easy. There&#8217;s a lot of… I think now more than ever, WordPress needs to think about developer experience more if they want to go that route. Before, PHP by itself offered a really good developer experience because you could just literally edit a file, FTP it up. Okay, you&#8217;re cowboy coding, but you could get something done. You could change something and see the effect.\n\n\n\nBeka: Well, you could see your white screen of death, but then you got to see your effects later.\n\n\n\nCarl: Then you fixed it, or you could display errors there. It felt more accessible for somebody with no programming background. Now it&#8217;s like, oh, I have to learn react templates. I have to learn this. I have to learn that. But forget about that because does my thing even build right now? I think it&#8217;s a huge loss to the ecosystem. I&#8217;m starting to get to the point where, I mean, things change. Nothing stays the same forever. But I think it&#8217;s more obvious than ever that WordPress, yes, it&#8217;s more mature, but the whole community nature of it is not really the same either. My favorite analogy is that it&#8217;s more like a corporate-backed open source project like MySQL. MySQL is super boring. Nobody knows who works on MySQL. It’s Oracle that must sponsor a lot of developers. WordPress is not quite the same, but it&#8217;s not the kumbaya of open source where people can make contributions. But there needs to be a focus on developer experience, especially in the PHP ecosystem. You&#8217;re competing with JavaScript, which is really popular. Then on the other side, you have something like Laravel that actually does care about developer experience. It’s completely different. If I told somebody to learn something in PHP, now I&#8217;d tell them to try Laravel. They’ll be closer to doing what you wanted to do, which is edit a template file. The syntax is different, but I see HTML tags. I can add some HTML tags. There&#8217;s some stuff there. I don&#8217;t have to compile it. There&#8217;s just so much tooling around it. How do you bring new people in? WordPress used to attract people that never did programming. That’s the best part. That’s what I find the most exciting. I think that&#8217;s what makes the community so diverse. People came from so many different backgrounds, just learned WordPress, and could contribute and build a company like yours. Well, you&#8217;re at your second company now, but SkyVerge was a big company, got bought by GoDaddy, and it started with somebody editing HTML files and adding tables. That&#8217;s amazing. To me, that&#8217;s crazy. So that&#8217;s why I think about that a lot.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, the diversity one is interesting. I certainly don&#8217;t have a problem at all with a project evolving and becoming more mature. There were parts of WordPress that needed that. If we go back 10 years, the Wild West wasn&#8217;t the way.\n\n\n\nCarl: No, absolutely.\n\n\n\nBeka: We&#8217;ve all seen the good and bad side of that. I think the biggest thing that I see sometimes is if you don&#8217;t have that kind of diversity of thought, you develop pieces of the project in a certain way. I sometimes see that with blocks. Exactly, your point about the table block. One of the things I&#8217;ve seen in WordPress is it was so accessible to me because of how extensible it was. You learn about actions and filters and the hook system, and you&#8217;re empowered to change something without having to completely write your application. Literally with a code snippet, six lines of code, I can change a thing. It gets addictive in a way where now I&#8217;ve changed this thing.\n\n\n\nZach: Absolutely.\n\n\n\nBeka: Then you learn more. Within a couple of years, I was like, I really want to write my own plugin and started writing my own plugins. You progressively learn. I&#8217;m not saying my path is the right one or even a good one, but that extensibility is what got you in. It empowers a lot of people to use the software and made it popular. Sometimes with the block ecosystem, and I&#8217;ve had conversations with the Woo folks about that, who have been very receptive, which is wonderful, without that extensibility or ability to modify things, it makes the project less accessible to those tinkerers. People just trying to build a website for some local business that contracted them and is like, can you do this? It sacrifices some of the interoperability that&#8217;s unique to commerce. If you&#8217;re a publishing site, a block may be the most atomic piece of your workflow. I put a form here, a button there. But from our perspective, working in WooCommerce, that&#8217;s not the smallest piece because another extension needs to modify that too or add something of its own into your form. That&#8217;s been challenging. The diversity of thought of people who have grown up in open source and with that extensibility and playing in the sandbox with everybody else versus in isolation is something I feel is missing in modern day. I don&#8217;t know if you feel the same way.\n\n\n\nZach: I do to a point. I&#8217;ve provided feedback on some of the blocks WooCommerce has released, like the cart and checkout blocks. They are these monolithic pieces. They&#8217;re not separated well and weren&#8217;t extensible for a while. It wasn&#8217;t easy to extend them. They finally added the ability to add your own text blocks to the checkout, which was missing. I think the more we think about blocks, the more we have to think about blocks at the atomic level and how they compose into larger patterns. The patterns weren&#8217;t fleshed out when WooCommerce blocks started. I get why the checkout block and the cart block are more these monolithic block components, but now they would be better suited to being a pattern, a composition of numerous blocks that make up all those individual pieces. We would finally get back to some customizability and the ease of customizability on WooCommerce pages. We wouldn&#8217;t be back to the level of code we had the ability to tweak and customize before, but we&#8217;d have a clear delineation between front end and backend development. The visual display being separate from the backend processing makes sense long-term because it gives us\n\n\n\nmore flexibility. As it sits right now, we&#8217;re getting there, but we&#8217;re not there yet. I just taught a course for Solid Academy talking about WooCommerce fundamentals with people who haven&#8217;t dove into WooCommerce yet. My favorite thing when teaching WooCommerce is showing people the Business Bloomer visual hook guides for the first time. They have this light bulb moment of, oh, so that&#8217;s what hooks are, that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re supposed to do. That&#8217;s what actions and filters are. Actions interrupt the flow of code, do something, and return control, and filters take an input, modify it, and return it back. Those are the two things we have from a code perspective to change how things work by overriding how they do by default. Just this eye-opening moment for developers where they see those visual hook guides and it clicks. Oh, okay, these are all the things and this is where they live, and this is why overriding that hook or changing its priority does what it does. That&#8217;s the power of where we&#8217;ve been. We have to make sure we don&#8217;t lose that.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, I would agree. With PHP, it’s a little easier versus something more event-based like JavaScript. It&#8217;s easier for a newcomer to grasp. I don&#8217;t lament that we’ve ruined WordPress. It&#8217;s a big step forward. People who have been in Woo as long as we have, we’ve seen some things. There’s the adolescent phases of version 1.6 to 2.0 or 2.3 to 3.0. Those were huge jumps for the project. There&#8217;s a lot of pain to grow up as an ecosystem. I feel like this phase is like that for me, but I’m also back in the ecosystem. It&#8217;s a good change and will make things better. The biggest thing is preserving that superpower of the ecosystem, that interoperability between different code projects merging into one execution stream at runtime. How do you preserve that and welcome different builders into that workstream? I think it&#8217;s a little scary. People are scared because that results in bad things sometimes. But the net positive of the kinds of sites people can create is really cool. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.\n\n\n\nZach: I&#8217;m reminded of the commercials for State Farm. &#8220;We know a thing or two because we&#8217;ve seen a thing or two.&#8221; We&#8217;ve been through the trenches of building WooCommerce sites larger and more complex than imagined. It&#8217;s amazing that open source can do that. It can enable something that even the creators had no clue was a possibility when they were starting out. I don&#8217;t think Mike and James had any idea that something they were working on would power billions of dollars in commerce.\n\n\n\nBeka: Every year, right? Billions every year. They’ve published the global GMV of WooCommerce sometimes in WooSesh. It’s probably even an underestimate from what I’ve seen. Last time they estimated WooCommerce powers tens of billions.\n\n\n\nCarl: It&#8217;s hard to get an estimate.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, because there&#8217;s no centralization. I&#8217;ve looked at different ways to estimate, but it’s hard to know how much revenue is online versus offline for some businesses that use it.\n\n\n\nCarl: Some people use it internally.\n\n\n\nBeka: At least tens of billions.\n\n\n\nCarl: I know from indirect clients that they use it just for internal warehousing and internal customers. If you&#8217;re a big company…\n\n\n\nBeka: Running your own swag store.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, exactly. It could be a swag store or just managing inventory between divisions. In big companies, the financialization is interesting. It’s impossible to track all that usage.\n\n\n\nBeka: The cool thing is they do that because you can customize it. It has those crazy diverse use cases because of that customization. Your software can work together easily with other software.\n\n\n\nCarl: It’s the only option. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m still really bullish. Even if Shopify is great, if you want a self-hosted thing, your other option is Magento, and that&#8217;s not really a road most people want to go on. That&#8217;s really exciting. Just from a developer aspect, it&#8217;s not necessarily lamenting, but it comes from being around programming for so long.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, you care about it. You want it to be better.\n\n\n\nCarl: But also, I love programming. You described it the best way. You can make little changes and feel empowered. It&#8217;s the empowerment. You put a filter, six lines of code, and it did something. And you&#8217;re like, holy crap, I&#8217;ve done something. That’s addictive. How do you get people to that space as fast as possible with as little technical knowledge as possible is really important, even if you&#8217;re not the flavor of the month framework. That&#8217;s the essence. Things can mature and not stay accessible, and that&#8217;s okay. But if you want to think about the health of the ecosystem and bringing new people in, I was really heartened to meet a couple of 23-year-olds at WordCamp EU. I thought we were all late thirties, early forties people. There weren&#8217;t a ton of them, but a few. That&#8217;s really important. It doesn&#8217;t have to be cool, but you want to make it something they&#8217;re not like, okay, boomer. It&#8217;s always going to be like, oh, I want to try the newer thing. It’s good to keep that in mind. The harder it is, the more people don&#8217;t want to do it, and the harder it is to bring people in, which affects health of products, hiring, maintaining talent.\n\n\n\nBeka: You don&#8217;t want to become COBOL in a few years, right?\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, exactly. I&#8217;m trying not to say COBOL, but basically not become COBOL. There&#8217;s a big gap between that, but this idea that it&#8217;s good for the ecosystem too, for indirect reasons.\n\n\n\nBeka: The accessibility becomes a big thing. It reminds me of what General Assembly did for Rails and how easy it was for people to pick up and start learning. By the end of six weeks, they build a small web app. I hired a lot of Rails developers. Some of our software was Rails with a React front end. As a small company, we didn&#8217;t always hire people that junior, but it was amazing how people could have no code experience but have an interactive web app they built by the end because of how accessible the ecosystem was. Carl, to your point, that&#8217;s a good measure of how well you can thrive and get people in the door. Not people like us who do this all day, every day, and build software for the platform. It&#8217;s people building WordPress websites and need to customize something for a client. Can they do it? If there&#8217;s not a plugin that exists or it only gets them 90% of the way there, have we made it easier for them to get on board and try?\n\n\n\nCarl: I always try to think empathetically. PHP is my sixth or seventh programming language. I&#8217;m not a representative person, so I always try to think. I think programming is a life-changing career that anybody, regardless of educational background, could get into. Anything that empowers people to do that, to have that opportunity, is huge. WordPress attracted people that never did programming. That&#8217;s the great thing. A lot of people career changed into WordPress, built companies, sold companies, made money, learned even more complicated things. It was great. That&#8217;s always what&#8217;s in the back of my mind.\n\n\n\nZach: A couple of things based on what was just discussed. We have a newer podcast here at Do the Woo, part of the All Things WordPress and WooCommerce podcast, called The Next Gen, with Allison Dye and Sophia DeRosia talking about WordPress and the next generation of WordPress. It&#8217;s interesting to see what that looks like from their perspective as younger people in this ecosystem. I&#8217;m excited about the next generation of WordPressers. There’s a lot of possibility and potential. I&#8217;m excited about newer community members driving us forward. Also, I got into computers by breaking something. There’s an inherent desire to tinker that comes with being a developer. I was tinkering before I knew what I was doing, and I ended up breaking my grandmother&#8217;s brand-new computer. I ended up on the phone with my friend&#8217;s dad, Tom, who worked at Baxter Labs in their IT department. He was the only person I knew who could help me fix what I had done. I spent hours on the phone with him, and he took his time to help me rebuild the operating system when I was nine or ten years old. That pushed me to understand that tinkering may have a cost, but it also has a benefit. I never stopped tinkering. I encourage anybody interested in development, sitting on the builder side thinking, wow, I really like hearing Zach and Carl talk about development, but it seems daunting to get into it. Just tinker. At the core of what we&#8217;re talking about, the block ecosystem changes tinkering in a way that makes it more difficult. I would encourage people who are newer to WordPress to look at the Roots Project with Radical. It uses the Roots stack and the Roots ecosystem. They have this thing called ACORN that lets you use Laravel inside WordPress. It&#8217;s a completely different way of looking at things than the block editor. It has ways to use and build blocks with an HMR-supported build setup. These are really cool things as part of a nice starting point if you&#8217;re interested in trying something different than what WordPress core does by default. It’s the power of an open-source ecosystem that allows people to build anything because we have all the code. That’s powerful. Sometimes we lose sight of that as a community that&#8217;s been in it. If we were working in a closed-source ecosystem like Shopify, BigCommerce, Squarespace, Wix, or Weebly, we don’t know the internal workings. We have a set of integration points, but that’s the limitation. We can only talk to the things we&#8217;re allowed to. It’s harder to build highly custom things. One of the things I talk about frequently is that Woo\n\n\n\nCommerce enables non-traditional stores. We have a ton of capability for selling physical products, but we can also, due to plugins, do things that are significantly different. We can do event ticketing, bookings, hotel reservations. Try that with Shopify out of the box. WooCommerce is highly focused on physical products. It’s not particularly great at virtual products. It can do it, but not particularly well.\n\n\n\nBeka: You need apps to do that.\n\n\n\nZach: Yes, you need the booking plugin. Virtual products, event ticketing, time and resource-based booking, accommodation booking, membership sites, online courses, charitable giving, fundraising, peer-to-peer software subscriptions—these are all business models powered by WooCommerce. Think beyond physical products. These are things plugins enable. All these things are possibilities inside the WooCommerce ecosystem. That&#8217;s insane. There’s no other e-commerce platform that can do all those things and do them well. That’s a strength.\n\n\n\nBeka: If you were getting into the Woo ecosystem to build things right now, how would you use that information? Would you be building booking plugins? What would you be doing if you were listening to this?\n\n\n\nZach: I would shift my definition of e-commerce because what we think of as e-commerce is generally the Amazon model of selling a product and shipping it. Shipping at such a low cost that margins are low. It’s hard to make money without volume when your margins are low. Amazon changed the physical product world. I would change my definition of commerce to be anything that involves transacting through a website.\n\n\n\nBeka: Using Woo with a framework to do that.\n\n\n\nZach: Absolutely.\n\n\n\nCarl: Exactly. I agree with that.\n\n\n\nBeka: You heard it here, folks. If you&#8217;re a new developer, building the next invoicing app for plumbers is the way to go. I agree. Service businesses and other kinds of businesses—you see them more commonly on Woo because they can&#8217;t use anything else.\n\n\n\nZach: In addition to that, you have these restricted product categories that don&#8217;t have other choices. These restricted product categories are growing by leaps and bounds.\n\n\n\nBeka: Shout out to all the vape stores out there.\n\n\n\nZach: There are sites I know of in restricted categories doing hundreds of millions of dollars in sales in a month just through WooCommerce. That&#8217;s because we have the capability to build payment gateways and plugins that tie to high-risk payment processors willing to take that business. That’s the open-source nature of WooCommerce and WordPress.\n\n\n\nCarl: Or selling gray market stuff. But one of my favorite WooCommerce sites is a Canadian site to buy magic mushrooms. It’s WooCommerce, and it’s the coolest site. They went all out with a Miami Vice aesthetic. But they can do that. What you can host, what you can sell, what payment options you have is important. So I really like Zach’s idea of expanding, really think about e-commerce literally as electronic commerce. Are you doing commerce online for anything? Like you said, plumber, wedding DJ, book gigs as a wedding DJ and charge for it. Anything. It lets you do that. That’s the real way to think about the platform.\n\n\n\nBeka: I favor people I can pay online for things, even a DJ or booking something. If I can do it and pay online, I feel like it usually indicates people are more serious about their business versus someone I have to call and book.\n\n\n\nCarl: Oh, interesting.\n\n\n\nZach: The four to six times a year I book a haircut, I do it online. That&#8217;s how I reserve that person&#8217;s time. I do the same with my doctors, my therapist, and all the other services I consume regularly. All the booking is done virtually now. I’m not calling somebody to set these appointments up. Building these tools increases accessibility to services for people who wouldn&#8217;t want to book them because of the friction involved. Friction is a killer. I know we&#8217;re talking about development, but these things are important to know. Friction is a killer. Statistically, the abandonment rate is 57%. Friction is enough for them after making a purchase decision to cancel, to abandon their decision. They&#8217;ve decided to give you money, and now 55% of shoppers say friction is frustrating enough to quit a purchase. Crazy. Friction can exist in multiple ways. For some people, making a phone call to a location to set up an appointment is terrifying.\n\n\n\nCarl: Don&#8217;t make me call. I&#8217;m extroverted and will talk to anybody at a conference, but don’t make me call for support. I just want to do it online or via form or email.\n\n\n\nZach: Building these tools increases the accessibility of these services to people who normally would not want to book them because of friction. I think the future of commerce is going beyond the Amazon model. It’s a great model. It works well. But people who look at things more creatively and don’t just copy Amazon will see huge returns. Experimentation will be rewarded in the coming years because e-commerce is growing. The industry segment is growing. It’s already billions more than we thought it would be and will be billions more. I think we’re crossing the trillion-dollar threshold this year in the US for e-commerce transactions. So much money is being transacted online. For anybody thinking, wow, I really want to get into this space, do it. Beka is a testament that you can get into this space, build things people love, and get a call from someone as crazy as GoDaddy, be acquired, build product inside a large organization, then exit and come back in and start again with another plugin company, Kestrel. I can’t wait to see what you, Max, and Justin do with Kestrel. It’ll be a lot of fun to see the future unfold. But we’ll leave that for another podcast.\n\n\n\nBeka: You ended with a cliffhanger, Zach.\n\n\n\nCarl: That’s how we get you back.\n\n\n\nZach: We’re talking about having you come back for a product chat in the near future. Be on the lookout for it. Have Beka come back in and talk more about the story behind Kestrel and where Kestrel is going. It’s been a joy talking the history of Woo and some of the thoughts we have around where things are going and development in general. Thank you for joining us this week. Before we wrap up, I always give Carl the opportunity to ask any final questions he has.\n\n\n\nCarl: I don&#8217;t have any follow-up questions. I’ve just really enjoyed the discussion. I thought it was really good.\n\n\n\nBeka: Carl&#8217;s going to ask when I start building block tooling. Don’t ask me that, Carl.\n\n\n\nCarl: I wouldn&#8217;t invest in block tooling until they can say, okay, we&#8217;re done. Some people tried to build abstractions around blocks, but it’s so volatile and unstable that it’s not worth the investment to maintain that.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, I&#8217;d agree. You need to work with Woo and WordPress core to make those things happen. The cool news is we&#8217;re seeing it. It’s super exciting to see something change.\n\n\n\nCarl: There&#8217;s an opportunity.\n\n\n\nBeka: Yeah, that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m back, right?\n\n\n\nCarl: Maybe there will be an ACF for blocks eventually or something to abstract away and make it easier for people to do these blocks. But I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s right now.\n\n\n\nBeka: I think ACF block is the ACF block.\n\n\n\nCarl: Yeah, ACF blocks are cool too, but you know what I mean. Something…\n\n\n\nZach: Yes, absolutely. Something that&#8217;ll be a landmark shift in how we build with the block editor. That&#8217;s definitely something on the horizon. Some tools are really close already. We’re in a good position to usher in a new future together as a community. For those watching some of the drama in this community, remember you have a choice to engage in that drama or ignore it. You have the ability to change this ecosystem by participating. That’s the wonder of open source and contribution. Despite what some people may think or the feelings some may have, we all have the possibility and potential to influence where the future goes. That’s what I remain focused on. No matter how small a voice you have, you have a voice. Use it.\n\n\n\nBeka: Beautiful.\n\n\n\nZach: Thank you.\n\n\n\nBeka: Well said.\n\n\n\nZach: Now that I&#8217;ve ended on a high emotional point, Beka, how do people find you on the internet?\n\n\n\nBeka: I&#8217;m around. I&#8217;d love for people to check us out at kestrelwp.com. As Zach mentioned, we&#8217;ve acquired a number of plugins for Woo to ramp back up. We&#8217;re excited to be back in the space. I&#8217;m on Twitter, B-E-K-A-R-I-C-E. Happy to chat and love to hear what people are building. If you&#8217;re in the Woo space and getting into some new projects, let me know how I can help.\n\n\n\nZach: Awesome. As always, if you have ideas for what you’d like to hear about on a Woo DevChat, go to your favorite social media platform and use hashtag bug Bob. We&#8217;re still going to make this thing happen. Hashtag bug Bob. Bob will listen to your feedback or just go to Do the Woo.io and contact us there. We want to hear your feedback. If you want to participate in a dev chat, we&#8217;d love to hear your ideas and hear from you directly. On behalf of myself, Carl, Bob, and the entire Do the Woo team, thank you for listening and being part of this amazing community.\n</div>\n\n\n\n\nWelcome to another episode of Woo DevChat and join hosts Zach Stepek and Carl Alexander as they dive into a lively discussion with Beka Rice, a seasoned WooCommerce expert and product architect at Kestrel. \n\n\n\nIn this episode, Beka shares her journey through the evolving WooCommerce ecosystem, the challenges and opportunities in the world of development, and the exciting future ahead with her new venture, Kestrel. Whether you&#8217;re a seasoned developer or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights, reflections, and forward-thinking ideas. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Highlights</h2>\n\n\n\nThe Evolution of WooCommerce: WooCommerce has evolved significantly from its early days, becoming more mature and complex. The community has grown, and the ecosystem now includes a diverse range of plugins and extensions.\n\n\n\nChallenges with Blocks: The transition to using blocks in WordPress and WooCommerce has created new challenges, particularly around extensibility and ease of customization. Blocks need to be more flexible and easier to work with for developers.\n\n\n\nDeveloper Experience: There&#8217;s a need to improve the developer experience within WordPress, especially for new developers. Ensuring the platform remains accessible and easy to tinker with is crucial for attracting new talent.\n\n\n\nDiverse Use Cases: WooCommerce supports a wide range of business models beyond just physical products, including virtual products, event ticketing, bookings, membership sites, and more. This versatility is a significant strength of the platform.\n\n\n\nImportance of Community: The open-source nature of WordPress and WooCommerce allows for a collaborative community where developers can contribute, innovate, and influence the future of the platform. This community-driven approach is vital for continued growth and improvement.\n\n\n\nFocus on Reducing Friction: Reducing friction in ecommerce transactions is essential. Making it easier for customers to interact with businesses online, whether through booking services or making purchases, can significantly improve conversion rates.\n\n\n\nFuture Potential: There is excitement about the future of WooCommerce and the potential for new innovations. The community is looking forward to seeing how new tools and approaches, such as those developed by Kestrel, will shape the ecosystem.\n\n\n\nEncouragement for New Developers: The conversation emphasizes the importance of welcoming and supporting new developers in the WooCommerce ecosystem. Tinkering and experimenting are encouraged as ways to learn and grow in the field.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Links</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://kestrelwp.com/\">KestrelWP.com</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/Beka_Rice\">Beka on X</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/kestrelwp\">Kestrel on X</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/company/kestrelwp/\">Kestrel on LinkedIn</a></li>\n</ul>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 09 Jul 2024 08:15:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:62:\"WordPress.org blog: WP Briefing: Episode 83: Learning Pathways\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?post_type=podcast&p=17489\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:64:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/episode-83-learning-pathways/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35146:\"Discover how Learning Pathways can guide you through your WordPress journey with clarity and purpose. In the latest episode of WordPress Briefing, host Josepha Haden Chomphosy welcomes special guest Wes Theron to discuss the newly introduced Learning Pathways. These curated lesson sets are tailored to various experience levels, roles, and use cases, ensuring a personalized learning experience for every WordPress user. \n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Credits</h2>\n\n\n\nHost:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chanthaboune/\">Josepha Haden Chomphosy</a> Guest: <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/west7/\">Wes Theron</a> Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/dustinhartzler/\">Dustin Hartzler</a> Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/javiarce/\">Javier Arce</a> Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/bjmcsherry/\">Brett McSherry</a> Song: Fearless First by Kevin MacLeod\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Show Notes</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/\">Learn.WordPress.org</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\">Beginner WordPress User</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/playground/\">WordPress Playground</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1pJFUVKQ7ETacCXdCCxwdAo-_xciwlQJ\">Learn WordPress YouTube Playlist</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Small List of Big Things\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/06/wordpress-6-5-5/\">WordPress 6.5.5 is now available!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/community/2024/06/15/wordpress-contributor-mentorship-program-q4-2024-call-for-interest/\">WordPress Contributor Mentorship Program Q4 2024</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-6/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">WordPress 6.6 Official Release</a>\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYdkXAx7qw\">What’s new for theme developers in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/meetings/\">Upcoming WordPress Meetings</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Have a question you’d like answered? Submit them to&nbsp;<a href=\"mailto:wpbriefing@WordPress.org\">WPBriefing@WordPress.org</a>.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcript</h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n[00:00:00]&nbsp;Josepha:&nbsp;Hello, everyone, and welcome to the WordPress Briefing, the podcast where you can catch quick explanations of the ideas behind the WordPress open source project, some insight into the community that supports it, and get a small list of big things coming up in the next two weeks. I’m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Here we go.\n\n\n\n[00:00:28] (Intro music)&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:00:39] Josepha: As a steward of the WordPress community, one of the big overarching questions that I grapple with is how to make sure people who have just found out about us know how to get around. Obviously, there&#8217;s the contributor path, which is important to me because I am especially concerned with the longevity of our little open source community, but there&#8217;s also a path for folks who are learning how to use the software.\n\n\n\n[00:01:03] Josepha: And so, joining me today to talk through a project called Learning Pathways is Wes Theron. Wes, welcome to the WordPress Briefing.\n\n\n\n[00:01:11] Wes: Good day. Thank you very much for having me. It&#8217;s a pleasure.\n\n\n\n[00:01:13] Josepha: Before we get into this project that we&#8217;re talking about, do you want to just tell me a little bit about who you are and what you do with the WordPress project?\n\n\n\n[00:01:22] Wes: Yeah. So, as you know, my name is Wes Theron. I&#8217;m based in New Zealand, and I&#8217;m an instructional designer. And, I am part of the Training Team. So, most of my life revolves around creating learning content for learn.WordPress.org.\n\n\n\n[00:01:38] Josepha: Oh, that&#8217;s quite a life. Teaching people how to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:01:42] Wes: Yeah, I teach WordPress. We run online workshops. I create video tutorials, courses, and now, of course, this great project we&#8217;re working on, Learning Pathways.\n\n\n\n[00:01:52] Josepha: Yeah. So, I&#8217;ve talked about Learning Pathways a few times here on the podcast, but for folks who have not heard me talk about it or who just need a more in-depth understanding, why don&#8217;t you tell us a little bit about this project as it stands today?&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:02:06] Wes: Yeah, so when Learn started out, I think the main goal was to just get learning content on the site. But, in May of last year, we shared an individual learning survey with folks, and we were hoping to basically find out what are the needs of the learners? What are learners after? And from that individual learner survey, we actually learned a few things. We learned that tutorials, courses, and online workshops were the most used content types. We also saw that web-based learning is the most popular learning method. And then there was a clear need for a structured way of consuming learning material. And that&#8217;s basically where the Learning Pathways project was born; to create Learning Pathways that basically target various types of learners, but also various skill levels. So July of last year, we started with outlines, creating outlines for these learner pathways.\n\n\n\n[00:03:10] Wes: And then, in October of last year, we actually started creating content. So, the first learner pathways we started working on was the User Learning Pathway and the Developer Learning Pathway. And what that entails is of course, creating a Learning Pathway for beginner users, intermediate users, and then advanced users.\n\n\n\nSo that&#8217;s how we kind of broke it up. And last week, the Beginner Developer Pathway was actually published, so that&#8217;s very exciting. And a few weeks before that, the Beginner WordPress User Pathway. And yeah, of course, we&#8217;ve got many other pathways in the pipeline that we want to work on. For example, a Designer Learning Pathway and even a Contributor Learning Pathway.\n\n\n\n[00:03:57] Josepha: Yeah, when we&#8217;re talking about pathways, what we mean is, like, we are figuring out what you probably need to know when you first arrive and then helping you to identify what you build on based on what your goals might be.\n\n\n\n[00:04:11] Josepha: Like, obviously, the beginner user, the goal is basically just like, learn how to get WordPress doing stuff at all. Like that&#8217;s, that&#8217;s an easy goal to understand. But when you all were doing the work to figure out what needed to be in the pathway for a beginner developer, and as you&#8217;re looking towards doing the work around intermediate and advanced topics, like how are you all able to determine what most likely you need in those various steps in the learning process?\n\n\n\n[00:04:42] Wes: So, of course, a lot of research went into that. When we created the outlines for these Learning Pathways. We shared it with the community. We asked for feedback. And yeah, a lot of research was done to make sure we cover all the all the bases. \n\n\n\n[00:04:59] Josepha: I know that there were a couple of different proposals about how to, like do skills assessments, maybe? There was something where like we were talking with companies that employ WordPress folks in the ecosystem, and then we were talking to WordPressers who were currently trying to make sure that their skills were advanced enough to get those jobs. And we were trying to figure out like the distance between those and where we actually have some concerns around like the language choices that they need, like basic developer language choices and jargon that goes in there and stuff like that.\n\n\n\n[00:05:34] Josepha: So this, if I recall correctly, the research for this has been going on for like maybe two or three years, right?\n\n\n\n[00:05:42] Wes: Yeah, definitely. And we&#8217;ve reached out to many stakeholders within the WordPress community. And as you say, even agencies, and businesses, you know, trying to find out what do they want people to know when they employ them. And yeah, then of course, speaking to the community, speaking, speaking to folks at WordCamps reaching out to folks an online workshops.\n\n\n\n[00:06:04] Wes: So, yeah, it&#8217;s definitely been an ongoing process and also seeing what resources are lacking and what needs to be there.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:06:12] Josepha: Yeah, so, the very first, the very first iteration of any training that the WordPress project was offering on, I think it was on learn.WordPress.org, but I don&#8217;t actually know for sure, was a troubleshooting workshop, because when you are trying to figure out WordPress for the first time, when you are trying to figure out any software for the first time, being able to figure out what went wrong is a really important part of that. And so that was like the only workshop that existed over there for quite some time. And so it&#8217;s really nice to see how we have really, not only created a bunch of resources in general, if you all have not looked at learn.WordPress.org lately, it has, like, workshop outlines that you can use to do a training by yourself at your meetup group or at a school or whatever it is.\n\n\n\n[00:07:08] Josepha: But then also, I want to say it was maybe two, three years ago, that you all, as a team, the Training Team, started doing these online workshops. And so, when you created the Learning Pathways, considering like how much time and research has gone into this project overall, did you all have learnings that came from those workshops that you had already done? Is this like a collection of workshops or is this something where you can do it at home and learn by yourself and then go someplace else and learn more about WordPress? Like how does that function in what we have already?\n\n\n\n[00:07:45] Wes: Yeah, so maybe I should first, maybe let&#8217;s define a learning pathway. So I, I thought about this, but a learning pathway, I would say, is a route taken by learner through a range of modules, lessons, and even courses to build knowledge progressively. So it&#8217;s similar to a course, but of course usually covers like a specific topic or subject where learning pathways usually have a larger goal.\n\n\n\n[00:08:11] Wes: So I wouldn&#8217;t say that the online workshops form part of the Learning Pathways project. And maybe I can also clarify that the teacher notes or the lesson plans that you refer to is something that&#8217;s also changing going forward. \n\n\n\n[00:08:23] Josepha: Oh, good. Because I wrote some of those, and I am not an instructional designer. And so, ha!\n\n\n\n[00:08:30] Wes: We&#8217;ve actually decided to move away from having two different content types. So, we had tutorials. You know, video tutorials, and we had lesson plans, and as you said, the lesson plans were notes that somebody could use to run an online workshop or to go to a WordCamp or at their local meetup and use that to teach something. But moving forward for Learning Pathways, we are actually just going to have one content type, namely lessons. And then lessons from part of creating a course or lessons from part of creating modules and then Learning Pathways. The other exciting thing, and something we haven&#8217;t mentioned, is that at the end of this month, when we launched the Learning Pathways or the first few Learning Pathways, it actually coincides with a website redesign.\n\n\n\n[00:09:18] Wes: So, yeah, beyond the lookout, hopefully, learn.WordPress.org is going to have a brand new face at the end, from the end of July or, yeah, or August. So, yeah, that&#8217;s very exciting.\n\n\n\n[00:09:30] Josepha: Excellent. Excellent. So, you said that these Learning Pathways are part of a larger goal. Is that a goal for your learners or a goal for WordPress? A goal for the team?\n\n\n\n[00:09:40] Wes: I would say all of the above.\n\n\n\n[00:09:42] Josepha: Goals for everybody. We&#8217;re like the Oprah of goals. Don&#8217;t come get me, Oprah. That&#8217;s all I got to say about it.\n\n\n\n[00:09:48] Wes: Yeah, I think for us as a team, at the end of the day, we want folks to be able to use the content and find the content and utilize all the learning material on learn.WordPress.org. And then, of course, at the end of the day, for learners, we want folks to be able to succeed in whatever they are trying to do. Is it to build their own website? Is it to maybe find a job as a developer? And. Yeah, I mean, the list can go on.\n\n\n\n[00:10:21] Josepha: Yeah. So, on the subject of wanting to help people succeed, I think that as far as I hear from the majority of contributors that I have worked with over the years, like helping other people figure out how to do this and making sure that they can succeed is always something that is top of mind for contributors to open source probably in general, but definitely to WordPress. Like, we really care about helping other people figure out how to have the same sort of benefits that we&#8217;ve had in the project and with the software. So if you have somebody who is familiar with all the bits and pieces of WordPress and really, really want to like show up and help teach some things. Is it the case that they can take part in like running a Learning Pathway? Is it something where we mostly need people to help us build some content? Like if we&#8217;ve got people who are just desperate to help other people succeed in WordPress, what kinds of things can they show up and help do on this project?\n\n\n\n[00:11:22] Wes: Yes, please come to the Training Team. There are many ways to get involved. If you just want to review content, you can do that. But yeah, we do have a need for content creators, folks, you know, creating a video lesson or putting their hand up and saying, I will actually create an entire module or an entire learning, a Learning Pathway. We do have some awesome contributors that&#8217;s part of the Training Team that are already doing that. Some people are writing scripts. Some folks are actually, you know, creating everything from the beginning to the end. So they are writing the script, they recording the video, publishing the video, et cetera. And then we&#8217;ve, of course, have people reviewing content. We&#8217;ve got folks running online workshops. If maybe creating video content is not their, is not their forte, they can can run online workshops. So yeah, many ways getting involved.\n\n\n\n[00:12:16] Wes: But Josepha, I wanted to point something else out that I haven&#8217;t done. I think there was a real need for Learning Pathways because, at the moment, if somebody new to WordPress or new to developing with WordPress wants to find learning content. You know, where do they go? What&#8217;s the main platform to go to? I think most people probably go to YouTube, right?&nbsp;But a lot of the content there are, are scattered and fragmented. \n\n\n\nSo a lot of learning material or learning about WordPress is all over the place. It&#8217;s not in one place. And as I said, a place where you can actually learn from A to Z, learn progressively learning in a structured way. Yes, we know there are courses available that you can pay for, but the awesome thing about this project is that we are providing these Learning Pathways, these learning resources, for free for folks to be able to work through at their own time. I know that&#8217;s something else you asked earlier on. So yes, this is a course in quotation marks; this is a Learning Pathway that somebody can start whenever it suits them, you know, in the comfort of their own home, and they can work through the Learning Pathway from the beginning to the end. Or, if they feel I actually know everything taught in module one and two, I&#8217;m going to start at module three, they can do that. They basically come in at their skill level.\n\n\n\n[00:13:43] Josepha: Yes. I think it&#8217;s really important to try to meet people where they are. And I know that it&#8217;s difficult because, like, we don&#8217;t take a lot of data from our users. You don&#8217;t have to give us basically anything in order to use WordPress. And by basically, I mean you literally don&#8217;t have to give us anything to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:14:01] Josepha: And so we always have some difficulty in figuring out what is it that our users need the most in order to succeed the quickest. And so I agree that there was a real need for this not only because, like, there&#8217;s plenty of content for getting from, like, some knowledge to a good amount of knowledge. There&#8217;s almost no content around, like, I didn&#8217;t know CMSs existed until yesterday, and now I need to quickly learn how to do it because it&#8217;s become a thing I need to do in my job. There&#8217;s some really clear, like use cases for being able to onboard quickly and progressively. And I understand that, like, having a clear, structured way to learn doesn&#8217;t always fit with the idea of meeting people where they are. But I do really think that, that like what you were saying, it can be as structured as you need it to be. But also, if you get into it and you think to yourself, you know, I know this information already. I can move on to the next module. I can move on to the module after that. Similar to the way we do that at WordCamps also. If you get into a session and you thought it was going to be useful for you, and you discover that it&#8217;s not once you&#8217;re there, you don&#8217;t have to stay. You can go to a different room where they&#8217;re teaching about SEO if it turns out that you don&#8217;t need to learn about JavaScript today.\n\n\n\n[00:15:23] Josepha: And I think that that&#8217;s, it&#8217;s kind of the value that this is hoping to bring, like, because it is a little bit built one on top of the other when you discover that you have already learned something, you can easily try out the next step and know that it&#8217;s probably a good next step.\n\n\n\n[00:15:38] Wes: Exactly. And if you maybe want to teach this to other folks. The plan is to, you know, we had lesson plans. We have a lot of lesson plans on Learn. But the plan is also to, instead of having, as I said, two different content types, is to have lessons but then add a tab where you can click on teacher notes and actually teach something as well if that is your goal. But yes, our lessons and modules also include quizzes and, hopefully, some practical activities. We&#8217;ve incorporated WordPress Playground where, where folks can actually, you know, test out what they&#8217;ve learned or test their knowledge. So yeah, I agree with you that you can basically join the Learning Pathway wherever you feel the most comfortable.\n\n\n\n[00:16:28] Josepha: So we&#8217;ve been kind of in the weeds of the project itself, the program itself, and if you want to like do stuff with that and in that. Let&#8217;s switch gears a little bit and talk about just what people who are wanting to join those pathways would need to know. Do you have any advice for somebody who is just today learning about these Learning Pathways and they think to themselves, I definitely want to sign up for one of those. Like, for one, how do they get started? And for two, your like top two or three bits of advice for as they get started? \n\n\n\n[00:17:05] Wes: So you can make your way to learn.WordPress.org, and you can basically open the, the pathway, and you can start wherever, wherever you want to. We have made it possible to actually view these pathways or our content without logging in with your dot org profile. The other thing I also wanted to mention is that our content is actually hosted on YouTube now.\n\n\n\nSo the great thing is we have these pathways within YouTube as well. So, folks can go to the, YouTube channel and see our content. And, of course, that basically reaches a very wide audience. And hopefully some of those videos will also bring people to the dot org site so that they can access the content.\n\n\n\n[00:17:57] Josepha: I think it&#8217;s great that you don&#8217;t have to sign up for a profile. If you are a brand new WordPresser and ran into this in your dashboard and are listening to this podcast now. So dot org profiles are a place where you can kind of log your activity in the WordPress community and the WordPress project. You do not have to have one in order to use WordPress. You don&#8217;t have to have one in order to look at these courses or to learn from them. But I always think that it&#8217;s kind of nice to get your profile set up so that people kind of know who you are and what you&#8217;re doing. And then also your activity shows up. Like, you can see that you enrolled in the course and you get to know for yourself that you made some progress. I know that when you&#8217;re getting started, it&#8217;s hard to, like, see your progress because you don&#8217;t know how far you have to go. And so, like progress when you&#8217;re starting out is really difficult to feel is real. And so I like it just so that you have a few reminders to yourself, like, look how far I&#8217;ve come as you&#8217;re trying to figure out how far you still have to go. And so I like that a lot. \n\n\n\n[00:18:58] Wes: You won&#8217;t be able to access all the content on Learn without your dot org profile. But one of the things we&#8217;ve made possible is to access these Learning Pathways, the new ones being launched without, you know, removing those blockers. So, of course, when you work through a Learning Pathway, you will be able to track your progress, and you will be able to see which lessons you have completed. So yeah, one of the pieces of advice I would give to somebody starting with the Learning Pathways actually to first go through the modules. And go through the lessons to see which things you know and feel comfortable with so that you don&#8217;t waste time maybe going through the first module and say, oh, I know this, and you&#8217;ve wasted time. Rather do a bit of research, a bit of reading, and then find the right place for you to start the journey.\n\n\n\n[00:19:45] Josepha: That&#8217;s excellent. I also, just as a learner, I try to always learn some stuff. And also, as you get older, it&#8217;s harder and harder to learn things partially because like you&#8217;re in a set path, but also, and here&#8217;s my advice to new learners: you worry about looking foolish. Like you, you worry, you&#8217;re showing up, and you don&#8217;t know anything about anybody else in the classroom. And so there&#8217;s this feeling of like, what if I&#8217;m the only person who does not know how to make this work? What if I&#8217;m the only person who can&#8217;t figure out what Wes meant by &#8220;Playground&#8221; or whatever it is? There&#8217;s this real feeling of looking silly when you&#8217;re doing something like this.\n\n\n\n[00:20:25] Josepha: I can&#8217;t control what anybody else says or does to anyone else, unfortunately. But what I can say is that I think that there&#8217;s never a bad time to start something you wish you had done, right? Like, the best time to have learned how to use your CMS, your website, make your website work was probably a year ago or something, but the second best time is today. And so, like, why not go ahead and get started and be part of that small group of adults that are learning new things every single day? I think that&#8217;s great. And so that&#8217;s my tip is to just embrace looking silly sometimes because you&#8217;re making some choices about your future, and that&#8217;s always a good choice.\n\n\n\n[00:21:04] Wes: And I would also say test your knowledge. So you&#8217;ve mentioned WordPress Playground. And as I said, we&#8217;ve incorporated into the Learning Pathways, but sometimes you watch a video, or you read something, and you feel like, oh yeah, I know this, but you know, the proof is in the pudding. So go and test it out. Use a test website or use WordPress Playground and test yourself to see if you can actually implement this or do something. So yeah, that&#8217;s definitely one of the other tips I want to highlight; you know, they also say you, you learn by doing.\n\n\n\n[00:21:38] Josepha: Yeah, absolutely. And also, like if you have gotten to a point you&#8217;ve done the learning, you&#8217;ve done some practicing, you think you&#8217;ve got it and want to like try to figure out what other things can be done with it. I recommend this is how I did a lot of my early WordPress learning to organize an event with your local meetup. Like, I did not know enough about WordPress when I started organizing WordPress meetups. I literally knew nothing. And I basically brought people in and was like, hey, we need people to teach us about this, us being half me. Come in and teach us. And, and that can be a really good thing, partially because, like, you get to know your local folks and see what&#8217;s going on and get a sense for, like, what is out there, especially if you&#8217;re learning this in order to run a business or to accomplish something for your job that you already have, like knowing what&#8217;s out there is super helpful. But then I find that once you embrace the fact that sometimes you will look silly, and that&#8217;s the only way that we can know we&#8217;re learning something. Like once you&#8217;ve embraced it, having some people who are willing to look a little silly with you is kind of, kind of fun, kind of nice. Also, like we&#8217;re all going to look at this problem that we definitely don&#8217;t understand and hopefully look like, at the end, we know what we&#8217;re doing, but between looking at it the first time and at the end of this meetup, we&#8217;re all going to look a little bit silly, ask silly questions. And I think that that&#8217;s a really helpful thing, too. But yeah, knowing some basic information is a great place to start before you do that, especially if you get anxious about looking silly. And I think these pathways are going to really help to get folks a little bit of a leg up on those big questions that they have as you&#8217;re starting to learn how to use WordPress.\n\n\n\n[00:23:18] Josepha: So we talked about, like, tips and tricks for learners in general. But if you had something that you wanted to share with us that, like, you&#8217;re really excited about for either the Training Team or for the Learning Pathways in general, I think the Learning Pathways are slated to be shipped by, like, end of September or something. So, like, a lot of them are coming quite quickly.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:23:38] Wes: So I am most excited about the website redesign and the new look and feel of the website. And also, you know, one of the goals for us as a Training Team is for learn.WordPress.org to be one of the places people come to and learn about WordPress. And I feel these Learning Pathways and the new website redesign and all the hard work that&#8217;s gone into this project is hopefully going to, make that happen. As I said, our content is also available on YouTube. So we&#8217;ve really tried to make it easy for folks to find our content and also now to digest our content in a progressive and in a structured way. Because, you know, learning is hard. And hopefully, these Learning Pathways have made it easier for folks to, as you said, to build on your knowledge. You know, a lot of times, there&#8217;s knowledge gaps. And I think that&#8217;s what makes learning so hard. And hopefully with these pathways, you can build that knowledge one step at a time.\n\n\n\n[00:24:44] Josepha: Yeah. And as is the way with open source, like we can only make these pieces of content better if you all show up and help us like try it out, learn some stuff, and tell us what was confusing. Tell us what was too big a step. Cause yeah, you&#8217;re right. There are some knowledge gaps and when you&#8217;re on the other side of knowing something, it is so hard to tell how big a step is, you know?\n\n\n\n[00:25:11] Wes: Exactly.\n\n\n\n[00:25:12] Josepha: And so we need y&#8217;all to come in here and tell us very plainly as a new learner like that was eventually what I needed, but this part here was especially confusing. This part over here was too like too many little steps like we just we&#8217;re trying to make sure that it works for you WordPressers, future WordPressers of the world. And so yeah, come build some learning with us over here on the Training Team.\n\n\n\n[00:25:35] Wes: And yes, please, we want feedback because, as you say, as we iterate, we want to improve. So there will be a place where you can provide feedback, and at the end of the pathway where there will also be a satisfaction survey for folks to to complete.\n\n\n\n[00:25:50] Josepha: Great. Well, folks, we&#8217;re gonna have a bunch of links in the show notes. There&#8217;s so much stuff out here to learn with and about WordPress. Wes, thank you so much for joining me today.\n\n\n\n[00:26:01] Wes: Thank you for having me. And I will see you all on Learn.\n\n\n\n[00:26:05] (Music interlude)\n\n\n\n[00:26:12] Josepha: That brings us now to our small list of big things. Although I have to say we have a bunch of links that we&#8217;re going to share in the show notes. If you&#8217;re listening to this in a place where there are not show notes, you can head over to WordPress.org/news. That&#8217;s where we keep all of those. If you are lucky, we also will help you find it on Twitter/X, but I think that it&#8217;s hard to find things over there these days. So WordPress.org/news is your best bet. Now, it is time for the small list of big things.\n\n\n\nSo, first up on my list is that WordPress 6.5.5 is now available. It&#8217;s got a few fixes in it, some maintenance things and some security fixes as well. I recommend that you update your sites immediately. You can download it from WordPress.org/download, or you can just visit your WordPress dashboard. If you&#8217;re on a managed host, they may have already done this for you, too. But auto-updates, manual updates, CLI updates. However, you want to get it done, get it done. But it is recommended to do this as soon as possible. 6.5.5.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:27:16] Josepha: The second thing on my list is that the WordPress Contributor Mentorship program has a call for interest out. This is a program that we launched about a year ago as well. And we had such a good bit of success at the end of the first round in February that there was significant interest in doing another cohort. So, that program connects seasoned WordPress contribution experts with folks who are new to contributing and offer a fantastic opportunity for mentees to gain hands-on experience contributing to WordPress while their mentors share their expertise and improve their leadership skills. So, most of the time, what you are going to be contributing to is probably a release of WordPress, but there are also a lot of opportunities to contribute to things like the Training Team that we&#8217;ve been talking about today and other teams as well. Not everything is focused all around our release cycle. We have things happening in the WordPress project literally all the time. It is a project that never sleeps.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:28:17] Josepha: Speaking of projects that never sleep, our next official release, our second release of the year, is coming out. WordPress 6.6 is coming out just about a week from now. It is the second major release of 2024 and has a lot of things in it that you will want to check out. If you have not yet seen the hallway hangout where we take a look at what was happening in the release, what we intended to get into the release, take a look at it. And if you haven&#8217;t tested it yet, if you are one of our plugin developers, if you are building something on top of WordPress core, now is the time to check that out and test it against your products.\n\n\n\nAnd then the final thing is that it&#8217;s a new month, my friends. Here we are in July, and we have a ton of things happening in the project. That&#8217;s the theme of my small list of big things: the project that never sleeps. But we have a lot of team meetings that are happening. If you haven&#8217;t attended one in a while or even if you have never attended one of these meetings and you were trying to figure out when to start, now is as good a time as any. You can join your fellow community members and contribute to the WordPress project. And there are ways that you can do that from home and from your computer and for some parts of the project, like from your phone, if you are taking photos out and about and submitting those. So check out make.WordPress.org/meetings. It&#8217;ll give you a sense for everything that&#8217;s happening. Do not get overwhelmed by that calendar. You can just choose which team you think is most interesting to you. \n\n\n\n[00:29:45] Josepha: And that, my friends, is your small list of big things. Your small list of never-sleeping things. Don&#8217;t forget to follow us on your favorite podcast app or subscribe directly on WordPress.org/news. You&#8217;ll get a friendly reminder whenever there&#8217;s a new episode. If you liked what you heard today, share it with a fellow WordPresser. Or, if you had questions about what you heard, you can share those with me at WPBriefing@WordPress.org. I&#8217;m your host, Josepha Haden Chomphosy. Thanks for tuning in today for the WordPress Briefing, and I&#8217;ll see you again in a couple of weeks.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n[00:30:15] (Music outro)\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 08 Jul 2024 12:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Brett McSherry\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:140:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #103 – Create Block Theme Plugin, WordPress 6.6, Gutenberg 18.7, and Updates from the Training Team \";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=29223\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:106:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-103-create-block-theme-wordpress-6-6-training-team/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:57010:\"In this episode, Nadia Maya Ardiani and Birgit Pauli-Haack discuss the create block theme plugin, WordPress 6.6, Gutenberg 18.7, and updates from the training team.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-103-create-block-theme-wordpress-6-6-training-team/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-103-create-block-theme-wordpress-6-6-training-team/#transcript\">Transcript</a>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\nShow Notes\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Special Guest: Nadia Maya Ardiani</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/nadiamayaardiani/\">LinkedIn</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ardianimaya/\">WordPress profile</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/01/16/contributor-spotlight-nadia-maya-ardiani/\">Contributor Spotlight: Nadia Maya Ardiani</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.hostinger.com/tutorials/author/nadiaardiani\">Content Specialist at Hostinger</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.hostinger.com/blog/birgit-pauli-haack\">Birgit Pauli-Haack: Fostering Community Spirit Through Knowledge Sharing</a> by Nadia Maya Ardiani</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/25/recap-hallway-hangout-theme-building-with-playground-create-block-theme-plugin-and-github/\">Playground, Create-block-theme plugin, and GitHub</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/recap-hallway-hangout-exploring-grid-layouts/\">Recap Hallway Hangout: Exploring Grid Layouts</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyYdkXAx7qw\">Developer Hours: What’s new for theme developers in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>July 8th, at 16:00 UTC: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/hallway-hangout-section-styles-and-other-block-style-variation-updates/\">Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>July 9th, 2024, 15:00 UTC – Developer Hours: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301834541/\">Editor unification and extensibility in WordPress 6.6</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>July 23, 2024, at 15:00 UTC <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\">Developer Hours: Do you really need a custom block? Let’s explore alternatives.</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Training team updates</h3>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/tag/contributor-spotlight/\">Contributor Spotlight series </a>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gather Press</h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://gatherpress.org/\">GatherPress.org</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/training/2024/06/27/training-team-testing-gatherpress/\">Training team testing </a>Gather Press</li>\n\n\n\n<li>&nbsp;<a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/gatherpress/\">https://wordpress.org/plugins/gatherpress/</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">New Courses</h4>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-user/\">Beginner WordPress User</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/intermediate-wordpress-user/\">Intermediate WordPress User</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://learn.wordpress.org/course/beginner-wordpress-developer/\">Beginner WordPress Developer</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s released</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/create-block-theme/\">Create Block Theme plugin 2.3</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/04/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-7-03-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.7? (03 July)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.6</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-rc2/\">WordPress 6.6 RC2</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://nomad.blog/2024/06/26/wordpress-6-6-source-of-truth/\">Source of Truth on WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4D1dHTZvQQ\">WordPress 6.6 – Huge Changes Coming Soon!</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Dev Notes\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/28/updates-to-the-interactivity-api-in-6-6/\">Updates to the Interactivity API in 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/24/miscellaneous-editor-changes-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Miscellaneous Editor changes in WordPress 6.6</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/24/section-styles/\">Section Styles</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/21/wordpress-6-6-css-specificity/\">WordPress 6.6 CSS Specificity</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/roster-of-design-tools-per-block-wordpress-6-6-edition/\">Roster of design tools per block (WordPress 6.6 edition)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/20/site-wide-background-images-in-wordpress-6-6/\">Site-wide background images in WordPress 6.</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/19/theme-json-version-3/\">Theme.json version 3</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/06/28/editing-custom-fields-from-connected-blocks/\">Editing custom fields from connected blocks</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in the works</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive\">Twenty Twenty-Five</a> \n\n\n\nStay in Touch\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\">Please write us a review </a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\nTranscript\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Hello, and welcome to our 103rd episode of the Gutenberg Changelog Podcast. In today&#8217;s episode we will talk in detail about Create Block Theme Plugin, WordPress 6.6, Gutenberg 18.7, and updates from the training team too. Maybe not in that order.\n\n\n\nI&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress Open-Source Project sponsored by Automattic’s Five for the Future Program. \n\n\n\nI&#8217;m delighted to have again as co-host, my dear friend, Nadia Maya Ardiani from Indonesia, member of the WordPress training team, translating Learn WordPress content. And in her day job, Maya creates content for the Hostinger blog and social media. So glad you can make it this time, Maya. How are you today?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Hi, Birgit. It&#8217;s very nice to be back here. How are you by the way?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I&#8217;m good. I&#8217;m good. I&#8217;m good. So glad we&#8217;re doing this. And it&#8217;s summer in Munich.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: It&#8217;s always summer here in Indonesia.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, I definitely have to visit sooner or later.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yes, please.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Rather sooner than later because time runs out.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. The last time you invited me, I think it was around WordCamp. After I came back from WordCamp US and you were not attending it. And this time it&#8217;s the other way around. You&#8217;re attending WordCamp Europe and I&#8217;m not, and I&#8217;m getting so FOMO of everything. So yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. FOMO is something that I&#8217;m looking at for now. Also for WordCamp Canada. There are some great speakers on there. But I am really looking forward. Are you coming to WordCamp Asia in the Philippines next year? You don&#8217;t know?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, I plan to. I plan to. So hopefully, we can meet again.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I hope so too, in-person. Well, did you know that the call for speakers is out for WordCamp Asia?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Oh, not yet.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: I haven&#8217;t checked.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So dear listeners, if you want to come to WordCamp Asia and be on the speaker roster, now is the time to get your creative juices going on what you want to talk about. All right.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h3>\n\n\n\nBefore I forget again, because I did the last time, I want to mention our new music for the intro and the outro. So this is the second episode actually with new music dear listeners, and I hope you like it. A 100 episodes is a great run for Homer Gaines’ music that we started out with and we used for 100 episodes. But I&#8217;m also grateful that he allowed me to use his music for free. So big prompts to Homer Gaines. And I&#8217;ll share again the link to his music channel on Spotify or what was the other one? SoundCloud.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: SoundCloud.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes. Yeah, thank you. The new jingle, or what you call it, whatever you call it, is actually created by Udio, and that&#8217;s an audio AI site. Which I just was trying out. And the prompt was Jango Edwards style intro music, and it&#8217;s called Manouche Morning. I share the link also in the show notes, so you can go to the site and try out your music tastes. But let me know what you think about it, dear listeners. And also, of course, Maya.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, I really like it, because it sounds like something that you can hear from a gramophone and take you back to another time. And it&#8217;s really a nice change of vibe. Because before we have this cool guy, a cool person, who is more very chill and very calm person, and this time it&#8217;s more happy-go-lucky. So yeah, I think it&#8217;s really great. And it&#8217;s like Morning Spirit, like the name.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: You kind of get in a different mindset there. And I learned in between that music actually changes, depending on which music of course, your brainwaves. So your alpha waves and your mood. I find it really interesting. So I read more about it. Well good. So that&#8217;s music. Well, either comment on the episode or send me an email or just ping me on Twitter what you think about the music.\n\n\n\nSo last episode, we talked about the upcoming events and now those events have taken place, and I can share the recordings in the show notes. If you are a theme developer, but you are not so much into code and want to use the Site Editor to create your theme, the Hallway Hangout where Beatrice Fialo demonstrated how she changes a theme and then used to create Block Theme Plugin to save all the changes that are normally in the database to the theme files and then make those theme files part of Version Control and GitHub.\n\n\n\nSo that process she demonstrated very closely. And on the recap post, I actually also spelled out the steps so you can really follow along. It was really a cool event. And you can actually design a theme and Site Editor and still update the theme files and handle it in Version Control. That was one of the big questions we had on the Outreach channel.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. I personally also really love Playground because it really helps for content creation as well. Because I don&#8217;t have to keep on tweaking my WordPress site, even though that&#8217;s a special site for testing. But it&#8217;s very handy to have it. I can just test everything there and then forget about it.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: I don&#8217;t have to reset everything. So, yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Right. Yeah. You don&#8217;t mess up the site that you use for other things. Yeah. Totally get it. And so I use local or used to use local, and I have probably 25 sites in there. Because I spin up a new site for everything. But that also clogs up my computer, although I have a terabyte of hard drive. But it still clogs up my computer. Because every single site has all the WordPress files, and with Playground I have nothing stored there except what I wanted to store in the browser or something like that.\n\n\n\nSo, yeah. The other event was the exploration of Grid Layouts. It was also a Hallway Hangout. And Isabel Brison, also a regular co-host here on our show, gave a great demonstration on how to handle blocks with Grid Layout or the other way around, how to work with a Grid Block, which is a subset of the Group Block. And she showed off the 6.6 features, but also what she&#8217;s working on for 6.7 in an experiment. So that&#8217;s also something, if you are keen to learn more about Grid Layout and what you can do with it, definitely watch that recording.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. People already starting to work on 6.7. It&#8217;s like, wow, so fast.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. So once decided when the Beta 1 is of major release, then it was also decided which Gutenberg Plugin version will make it from the new feature point of view. So the week the Beta 1 is released, that&#8217;s the week where the Gutenberg Plugin released, and that&#8217;s the last release with new features.\n\n\n\nSo Beta 1 was on June 4th and the release candidate for 18.5 was already out. So those features made it into the major 6.6. And everything else afterwards, 18.6 and 18.7hat we&#8217;re going to talk to now, are either bug fixes and they will be ported to the release on WordPress but all the new features that add UI, that are enhancement to existing things, stay in the plugin.\n\n\n\nAnd Isabel Brison, and I think Robert Anderson, they were working on the Grid Layout, they actually started that experiment way earlier, but they were not ready to make it public. So if you want to test out what she showed off in the Hallway Hangout, you need to enable that experiment on the experiment page in Gutenberg before you can actually see that feature.\n\n\n\nSo there&#8217;s multiple levels of how you learn about new things. And if you want to get in early, the experiment page on the Gutenberg Plugin gives you a clue what people are actually working on. Some of them are pushed forward like the data views or the Grid Layout, and some of them are a little bit stale because there hasn&#8217;t been enough feedback to move forward with a lot of things.\n\n\n\nGoing back to the announcements or to the upcoming events, there&#8217;s also in the show notes a link to the recording of the developer hours, what&#8217;s new for theme developers in WordPress 6.6, where Nick Diego and Justin Tadlock were talking about all the good things that are coming, especially the overrides to sync patterns and also grid, but also most prominently the section styles, that&#8217;s it, block styles, and how that works with the reduced specificities for custom CSS.\n\n\n\nSo you can override. Well, how you can override some custom styles and block style. It&#8217;s a little bit highly technical, and if you&#8217;re not into that, the last part might be a little bit too technical, but it&#8217;s definitely worth checking out.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nAnd then there&#8217;s a set of upcoming events in July on Monday, you might not have listened to that, next week, July 8th there&#8217;s a Hallway Hangout where Justin Tadlock and Nick Diego are talking about the section styles and block style variations, want to discuss with the extenders what are the challenges and what are the problems or questions. Bring them all to the Hallway Hangout. That&#8217;s on July 8th, 1600 UTC.\n\n\n\nThen on July 9th, there&#8217;s a Developer Hour, Editor, Unification and Extensibility in WordPress 6.6. That&#8217;s with Ryan Welcher and Nick Diego. And they talk about how the slot fields and all the other extensibility works now for post editor, site editor, template editor. They&#8217;re all now one interface or almost, in how you can take advantage of it. And the additional ways to add your own interfaces to the sidebar.\n\n\n\nThen July 23rd at 1500 UTC is another Developer Hours, and that covers that topic, do you really need a Custom Block? And it explores the alternative, and it was one of the things that early on, but more and more you have already built in ways to modify core blocks without having to create your own blocks. So be based on the core blocks. And with pattern overrides, there&#8217;s another feature there where you can say, okay, maybe I don&#8217;t need my Custom Block. And the other part is the Block Bindings.\n\n\n\nSo for custom fields, that you don&#8217;t need a block for each custom field, your customer needs. So you could actually use the Block Bindings for that and bind those information or the values to certain core blocks. It&#8217;s not available for all the blocks, but it&#8217;s 6.6. Block Bindings came with 6.5 and all extended, especially the editing part in the interface for 6.6. All right.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Training Team</h3>\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. And speaking of events, so currently the training team is, we are trying to test GatherPress. So it&#8217;s like an event management application and it&#8217;s open source. So we are thinking, why not? We&#8217;re trying to move through this platform, we are looking for a tool that can help us to improve the flow management of our Learn WordPress online workshops, for the scheduling stuff.\n\n\n\nAnd we hope that by testing it, we can try to meet the diverse needs of even organizers and members of the WordPress community in general. And it&#8217;s not just training team members who can test it. Everyone basically can test it. And I will put the invitation to test it in the show notes. And the main areas that we follow will be including its ease of use and then the registering process, and then the editing attendance feature, and basically any other stuff that stands out.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That&#8217;s great. Thank you so much for bringing that to the show. I totally dig it. And I remember having conversations about replacing Meetup as the tool for the local Meetups with multi-site, for all the 700 local Meetups when I was a Meetup organizer in &#8217;16 and &#8217;17, so this is great that it comes together now.\n\n\n\nRecently, the GatherPress Plugin is also now available in WordPress Plugin Repo, so you can also test it on one of your other sites. You don&#8217;t have to use it for WordPress events. But yeah, I&#8217;m going to look at the invite. So that is really cool. When I look at the plugin page, it has blocks for everything and it has for RSVP, add to calendar, the online event, event date, menu and all that. So this is really great. And maybe could even be used for other events, not just WordPress events.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. And I myself haven&#8217;t tested as well, so sharing this also became a reminder for me to test it. Because it&#8217;s really great to have this alternative.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Absolutely. Oh, and speaking of the training team, there are three courses that came out in the last couple of months. One is the beginner WordPress user. So if you start out as a WordPress content creator and/or site owner, this is definitely a course to go through because it explains some of the WordPressy things that are a little bit harder to know. It&#8217;s like your driver&#8217;s license course for WordPress. Sometimes we just need a refresher as well. And I just realized that there&#8217;s also an Immediate WordPress User course out there. So I think it just went online. And for those who are….\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, it&#8217;s very new.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Have you worked on those?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Actually, these three stuff like Beginner WordPress User and then Beginner WordPress Developer, and then Intermediate WordPress Developer. WordPress user, sorry, they&#8217;re all part of the Learning Pathway Project. So lately we try to create learning pathway. Because sometimes people get into learn.wordpress.org and became like, oh my God, there&#8217;s so much stuff to learn. Where do I start?\n\n\n\nSo we&#8217;re thinking maybe it will help if we can have separate learning pathways, for example, for people who don&#8217;t have enough technical background, they can start by the Beginner WordPress User. As you already said, it&#8217;s like the driving license for WordPress. It&#8217;s a really nice way to put it. It&#8217;s when you want to really learn from the basics. And then we have Beginner WordPress Developer. It&#8217;s for those who want to start developing for WordPress.\n\n\n\nAnd then we have Intermediate WordPress User. So it&#8217;s for people who already have basic fundamental knowledge and then they want to level up their use of WordPress. Maybe for content creation, they want to make it more effective, and then they want to explore the advanced features. So this is what everyone can learn from this.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. No, really, and I know there&#8217;s a lot of work that goes into that, especially because WordPress changes so much in the recent year. What I also like is that the single lessons are actually available separately. You don&#8217;t have to go through the course or finish one lesson to go to the next. You can just look at the list of the course and then pick the lessons where you want to expand your knowledge. Or when you say, okay, I need to dive deeper in that topic, and hopefully the lesson covers that.\n\n\n\nThat&#8217;s a really good way also for people who actually build sites for others, to say, okay, if you want to learn that, why don&#8217;t you go to that lesson, instead of having to do that training themselves. Although it builds trust, sometimes it can be a bandwidth. You don&#8217;t have the bandwidth as a freelance developer or as a small agency to do all the training. And having an official site where you can point people to for certain explanations or for certain tools, on how to use them, is definitely a feature also very well-built for agencies that are out there and working with clients. You are pretty much the first line of support. So that definitely gives you support in supporting. I like that.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Support in supporting.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. So check out the <a href=\"http://learn.wordpress.org\">learn.wordpress.org</a> site and the three courses we will have in the show notes for you. And of course, yeah, the Beginner WordPress Developer course covers all the things that you might need to at least get started. Because there&#8217;s a lot of tutorials out there that assume a certain knowledge of certain things.\n\n\n\nAnd I know because I work with the writers on the developer blog on the WordPress Developer Blog, and some of it is kind of how can we get to the meat of that particular tutorial without having to explain about everything WordPress.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Everything.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So now we can point to the WordPress Developer lessons and say, okay, here you can beef up thinking about this or this and that. So it&#8217;s great fundamental work that the training team is doing there.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. And we try to facilitate the many ways people might prefer to learn. Some people prefer to learn audio/visually, some people prefer to just read it, because they can do it anytime and anywhere, and also for the accessibility reasons.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Excellent. Yeah, definitely. That was the section about the training team. Well done on the training team and everybody else out there.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; Create Block Theme Plugin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</h3>\n\n\n\nSo that brings us to the section, what&#8217;s released. And before we dive into WordPress 6.6 some more, I just wanted to give a shout-out to the latest release of the Create Block Theme Plugin. It has become my most favorite plugin that I actually use. And the team working on has released version 2.3 with a few more capabilities.\n\n\n\nAnd now you can add image credits to the theme modal. So there&#8217;s a theme modal where you can put all the information about a theme that you create in there. And there&#8217;s now also a section for the image credits if you use somebody else&#8217;s images in there that are not commonly licensed or public domain. So you can add this to it.\n\n\n\nExternal links are now translatable. So the translation team, whoever and polyglots wants to translate a theme can do that. There is a new About section in the editor that helps you with what the various pieces are about. And the landing page in the plugin has been majorly improved from the design, and it now looks a little bit more like that plugin is. And then now the font settings. When you clone a theme, the font settings actually persist over the cloning part. So what the original theme is doing you can do. The clone theme is also respecting that.\n\n\n\nAnd then there were quite a few bug fixes and all that. But it&#8217;s so great how this plugin actually evolves throughout the times and goes along with the WordPress features. I think that they&#8217;re working now on some pattern management, but they need to wait for the core to finish developing. Sometimes the heart of the matter, if you want to create, you can create patterns in the interface, but you need to export them separately and not with the theme. So that&#8217;s kind of a major stepping stone.\n\n\n\nAnd then the styles and section styles, they haven&#8217;t implemented that yet. But it&#8217;s coming along and stay tuned.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordPress 6.6</h3>\n\n\n\nSo for WordPress 6.6, release candidate two is now available for testing. Today, we are recording this on July 4th, thinking July 4th to our American listeners. Happy Independence Day. Hope you have a wonderful weekend.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And enjoy the summer coming in. But no rest for the wicked. WordPress 6.6 is scheduled to come out July 16th. That&#8217;s 12 days away. And there is with the release candidate one, also the Source of Truth came out, a compendium, it&#8217;s a book about that, WordPress 6.6. Compiled or composed, edited, authored by and&#8230;\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Curated.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Curated By Anne McCarthy. It&#8217;s all you want to ever learn about 6.6 in any detail, about every feature. It might not interest everyone. But you can actually&#8230; She tags each feature for the intended user, like this is the theme author, plugin author, end user or enterprise level or for everybody. So you can actually use the browser, find function for the tag theme author, and then go just hop from one occurrence to the next and read it that way. That&#8217;s how I do it.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: If you need a shorter version, Jamie Marsland summarized the most important feature in this video and calls it WordPress 6.6, huge changes coming soon.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: As a content writer, I am so thankful that Anne McCarthy always creates this source of truth every time there&#8217;s a major release. So it became our source of truth, literally, to write anything about WordPress.\n\n\n\nSo it&#8217;s also interesting that today&#8217;s marketing team, from the make teams shifting to Media Corps. Because it&#8217;s expanding the possibilities for the Source of Truth. Now that we are going to have that one place, one central to getting everything about WordPress and being updated on it. So it&#8217;ll be really helpful for content creators especially.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it&#8217;s actually meant for content creators. It&#8217;s not so much for end-users, because that also can be quite technical. So Jamie Marsland, in his video, points out pattern overrides, the grid layout, and we all talked about the negative margins, the custom shadows, and as well as the data views.\n\n\n\nAnd there were actually for the developers additional def notes since the last episode were published, and one was the updates to the interactivity API, miscellaneous editor changes. These are smaller changes, but still don&#8217;t overlook them. A definite about section and styles, is definite about the CSS specificity. That&#8217;s a very difficult word for me.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Me, too. It&#8217;s a tongue-twister.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And it reflects how hard it is to talk about that as well.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, yeah. 6.6 specificity.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Specificity.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: So many S.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And then there&#8217;s a roster of the design tools per block that&#8217;s just a table of lists, all the blocks, and then which design tool, line, typography, color, dimensions, background image, gradient, yay, duotone, which block does what. And then there&#8217;s another dev notes about the theme JSON version three that also covers the style variations or the section style variations, how you can manage them through theme JSON.\n\n\n\nMaya, from all the small and big features, what intrigues you as a content creator the most?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: I actually want to say the zoom out view, but sadly, based on the 6.6 Source of Truth, it&#8217;ll be available on a future release. But I was like, if it&#8217;s finally available, it&#8217;ll be a game changer, because I can&#8230; Instead of cut and then move it to somewhere else by scrolling up or down my mouse and put it on the wrong part of the website, being able to zoom it out will be, oh my God, it will be&#8230; What is it in English? Sorry. It&#8217;ll be really time-saving.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I can definitely see that. Because we are so focused on the block or on the section kind of thing that sometimes you need a full view of a page. And the zoom out view is&#8230; We are looking at things sometimes only for the block section and what&#8217;s in front of us, but the zoom out view gives you actually a view of the full page and how everything fits together.\n\n\n\nThat&#8217;s very important when you look at template previews or on pattern previews or even on when you go through the categories of patterns and then you see the pattern, how would that fit in into your full page kind of thing? Yeah. But if I understood it correctly, it wasn&#8217;t all that seamless to use. It was always a little bit of a surprise when it happened that the team still wanted to&#8230; And nothing is hated more than a surprise by an end user. What did I do?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Did I do something wrong?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. That&#8217;s the first question I always ask. What did I do? And how did that happen? So they wanted to finesse that a little bit more and make that usage a bit more intuitive. So apart from what&#8217;s not in 6.6.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: What else?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: I think it&#8217;s the unified editor experience. It just makes sense to me to have the featured image position way higher than before, because before it&#8217;s down there. Now it&#8217;s way up there. Because when we create a blog post after finishing the text, the first thing that comes to mind is what feature image we will put there to represent the blog post.\n\n\n\nBecause having a proper and featured image is also important for the SEO and for branding, especially if we name the featured image with the keyword that we target, it&#8217;ll boost the SEO performance as well. And I like how the publish flow looks more compact and less distracting. Because some stuff gets inside when we click something and&#8230;\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: The three-dot menu.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yes. It can be also less intimidating for newbies because there&#8217;s not so much stuff right there. And then I&#8217;m also interested in the pattern overrides, because it will be so handy and time-saving. And also help create a cohesive design across the site, especially for no-code or no designer, non-designer users, and then also the negative margins because it unlocks the design possibilities for us who don&#8217;t really design in our daily lives. So yeah, it will look really cool, I think.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, absolutely. And I like the combination between the grid block and the custom shadows. And then now you can have some overlap of images and text, and you don&#8217;t have to use a cover block to have that because it&#8217;s hard to organize that. Yeah,\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: It&#8217;ll be so fun to play with.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Great tools in there for designers that are no-coders. Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of cool. Yeah. I&#8217;m a total fan of the pattern enhancement that comes with 6.6. It&#8217;s not only the set pattern overrides that were punted from 6.5, I like the additional time, which really helped with the feature to bring it in. Because now you see it in the sidebar which content you can override and how they&#8217;re called.\n\n\n\nAnd to create this, you can actually guide your users, which piece of the pattern you can override. So there&#8217;s a sidebar on that, when the pattern comes in you really see it. And there&#8217;s also the full pattern management, is made available for sites that use a classic theme. So they get a menu item in the WP admin and also all the pattern management screens. So that&#8217;s a big deal for the classic themes because they still dominate the space of course.\n\n\n\nNot everybody changes themes every two years, but users can take advantage of the broader template part and pattern management. And theme developers can also make those available for their users. So I&#8217;m really happy about that. Yeah, we talked about the grid layouts. I&#8217;m absolutely a fan of that. And because you can have so much more design, although I want to do something like a Pied Mondrian kind of style, and I am….\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Oh, yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Looking forward to doing that. And now you can also create your own drop shadows and you don&#8217;t need a theme developer or a developer for it or wait for core. You can create your own drop shadows with the color, how they lean, what&#8217;s the angle and what&#8217;s the distance from the thing. It&#8217;s not available for all blocks. But I think it&#8217;s still only for four blocks, but it&#8217;s definitely changed for the content creators to make some interesting things.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yep, yep.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And one thing I really like is that it&#8217;s finally coming to WordPress, and that is, to use….\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: What is that?\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: The tab button to indent list items?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Oh, yeah, yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Every time.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, I forget about that too. It&#8217;ll be really nice too.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And because it trips me up every time I know I&#8217;m going to use it very much. I have not learned to work around it. Why can&#8217;t I do this? So I try it every time I use a list that needs to have multiple hierarchies. So I&#8217;m really happy about that. Thank you.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Finally.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: The time that I don&#8217;t spend in WordPress, I spend in Google Docs. So some things from Google Docs. What drives me crazy in Google Docs is that I can&#8217;t just highlight something and put a link underneath with copy paste. That kind of trips me up in Google. And I was like, Google, get on with it. And GitHub can do it, WordPress can do it, you can do it too. And this was the other way around. Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of what Google does nicely and WordPress does.\n\n\n\nWe talked a little bit on the podcast already about the new screens coming, called the data views. And those are the admin screens, that insight editor to manage pattern pages, styles, navigation and templates. And as they are tested for more admin redesigns to come. And yeah, I&#8217;m really excited about that because it kind of gives you a little view into the future, and also lets you already use it and see how that works well for you.\n\n\n\nI know for 6.7, they&#8217;re looking at making those available for the media library and also for the post because those two things on the content side, they still use the old WP admin for various reasons. Most of it because of the extensibility that needs to be built in, because a lot of plugins kind of tap into these screens right now.\n\n\n\nBut the 6.7 is probably going to have at least some first versions of that in that. If you&#8217;re a plugin developer, you might want to check out theWordPress&nbsp; component package data views. And there&#8217;s also one that contributors are working on, it&#8217;s called data forms, maybe to make them work for your plugins or at least test them out, and what it would bring for you later on in a year or so.\n\n\n\nAnd then of course, the last feature that I am really happy about is the extensions of the Block Bindings, they were a big deal in 6.5, but the enhancements that coming in 6.6 is even more useful for site owners and site content creators, because WordPress now offers various ways where you can update the custom fields through the Block Binding screen.\n\n\n\nSo the meta boxes that are on bottom of your screen are not the best interface. They also don&#8217;t have any validation and all that, but you can now change it right in the block. So if you have a typo of inner value for the meta, thinking of a book, if you have a typo in the author. Or you can change the author right there in the block, as well as if that&#8217;s in the archive, you can use those Block Bindings also in the archive pages through your templates, but users can then change, oh, this is a wrong date, or this is a wrong location. They can change it right there in the archive pages in the editor.\n\n\n\nSo it&#8217;s kind of nice to have that now built into the Block Editor, what before you actually needed custom blocks for it or you needed ACF for it or parts or something like that. But now you can just have the custom fields connected with blocks still in the early stages of course, but it&#8217;s not complicated fields or complicated connections. But it&#8217;s a start and it might make….\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: We&#8217;re getting there.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, it&#8217;s getting there. And it might make quite a set of custom blocks redundant if you could use those for that. And you don&#8217;t have to maintain the code for that. Yeah, that&#8217;s what I think about 6.6. What I like and what&#8230; I am really looking forward to it.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: It&#8217;s less than two weeks from now, I think.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: 12 days from today.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: 12 days.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So this comes out on Sunday, and you have only 10 days once you listen to that.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: 10 days.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. Or maybe today, Thursday. Well, it comes out on Sunday, so you only have eight days.&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 18.7</h3>\n\n\n\nBut that was not the only thing that was released today or this week. The WordPress 6.6 release candidate two, it was Gutenberg 18.7. Total of 115 PRs were merged in Gutenberg 18.7 with seven first time contributors. Yay.\n\n\n\nI was going to look at that and hope they contribute not only their first contribution, but also because now they&#8217;ve got the process right that there will be many, many more contributions from those users.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Of course, of many contributions after this.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Right, right. Yeah. And with WordPress 6.6 at our doorstep, many contributions are focused on bug fixes. So there&#8217;s not a whole lot of new features in there, but what we are talking about, some of them are really&#8230; We will find in 6.7, but let&#8217;s talk about them.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhancements</h3>\n\n\n\nSo there is now a content panel for template parts, and that is good because now developers, and when you create templates in the editor, you can add a description and that shows up in the content area for that template. So you can make your theme a little bit more descriptive. Then the next one is, we talked about the published workflow, right?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Mm-hmm. Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And there is the Sticky Toggle, which is something that means the sticky post.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: That is&#8230;\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: It&#8217;s now under&#8230; It will be under&#8230; Wait, I forget.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Those three dots.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, it&#8217;ll be under the status and visibility. And I think that will be great because it makes it more clear what sticky means, especially for non-English speakers and beginners. Because I remember the first time I learned using WordPress, I was confused what does this sticky mean? Because I was trying to make my first blog post and then I tried this sticky feature and nothing happened. Of course, because my post is only one. So I cannot see what this feature actually does. So by moving it under status and visibility, I think it makes it more intuitive. Because by that we know that, oh, this sticky might be related to the visibility. Oh, it&#8217;ll stick to somewhere in the website.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, I think you&#8217;re right. And it&#8217;s also not the first&#8230; The first few blog posts you probably wouldn&#8217;t need to know about Sticky Post to get that into your feature set that you would need. So why is it there? Yeah, you&#8217;re totally right. Yeah. What they also did in 18.7, why am I still two years, in 16?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Numbers are also hard.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, numbers are hard, especially for writers. But I&#8217;m actually a number person, so&#8230;\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Ahh. Yeah, yeah. Number person and alphabet person.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: I used to say, so it&#8217;s a real miracle what word people do with numbers. Because I looked at budgets from word people that didn&#8217;t work out. But off my tangents now. So one feature that comes with 18.7 is the alignment of the naming models. So we are renaming and naming quite a few things. One is we renamed the sections in the pattern overrides. We renamed template parts, we renamed posts and pages, titles, and all these models, they looked a little bit differently every time. So they are now aligned and use the same design.\n\n\n\nSo it makes it less of a friction, because every time you see something different, you think there might be something different, but there isn&#8217;t. So that&#8217;s really good for quality of life improvement on that. So we haven&#8217;t talked a lot about the writing mode support for blogs. What is that? That is&#8230; Do you know what that is? Have you ever used it?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: I tried it, but not really applied it to my daily process. But I think it opened more design possibilities. Because we can make any other element to be vertical or there are so many possibilities that we can do with the layout and then with the message that we want to share to the world.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so you could pretty much say in the fonts you see in the three dot menu in your font, typography, things you see, vertical alignment or orientation, is I think what you see. Font orientation.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Oh, yeah, orientation.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: So you can then say, okay, I want this headline to be vertically aligned with the paragraph that it kind of comes after. So it actually will be on the left-hand side instead of on top of it, but it is vertically aligned. And yeah, as you said, it&#8217;s a nice design tool to break up the wall of text, I call it.\n\n\n\nSo when you use headers and list items and all that, they need to be visually attractive at one point, so you can end this PR or with 18.7, the feature of the vertical alignment comes to other blocks. The writing mode support is now also available for buttons and verse and side tagline blocks and side title blocks. Not just for headings and paragraphs. There&#8217;s a theme JSON settings in there, and you can also kind of see it then in your style blocks. So I think that&#8217;s a great feature to have, that is added to a few more blocks.\n\n\n\nSo wonderful. Another tool, it&#8217;s not a tool, but what has changed, and you will see it in 6.6, is that with the entity that you&#8217;re editing. So what do I mean by that? Is it a pattern or is it a block or is it a template? And now you get a document bar on top of the screen that actually tells you where you are. And that document bar is now also available in 18.7 Gutenberg with the style book and the style revisions. So it&#8217;s one more piece of getting the orientation right for a content creator. So what am I actually doing? And I liked it for templates and for pages. So am I in template mode or am I in page editing mode, which is kind of a little different.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, I checked the GitHub issue and still cannot really comprehend what we will get from this feature? But then you just explained about it. It makes me, oh, yeah, yeah, I will&#8230; looking forward to this. That&#8217;s why even though I&#8217;m not really a technical person, I&#8217;m still keeping notes and updating myself of all these updates. Because, oh, this one, I might need this. And just taking notes of everything.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. And the last one, it&#8217;s also a very small thing, but it&#8217;s really improved the quality of life of these new features. And I&#8217;m sad it&#8217;s not going to come to 6.6. Not that I&#8230; Because it&#8217;s the tool top to hover over the color and to typography presets. So if your theme has, or if you&#8217;re a theme developer and you create color and typography presets for your theme, then the user can hover and identify that color palette or what typography, what&#8217;s the font like or what do you call those fonts. And you can then point people to it in your documentation and say, well look at that. Well look at this. And the Tooltip helps you identify really the things that are on screen. All right. Do you want to add something to the Tooltip?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah, I just want to say that this will be very handy for working with teams because you don&#8217;t have to pick that one that is the third one from the top. You can just say the name of, what is it? The color presets. The color palette. So yeah.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Bug Fixes</h3>\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah. No, you&#8217;re right. Yeah, it&#8217;s really hard to organize it. So we mentioned quite a few bug fixes in there. And there is one in there that we are talking about, that&#8217;s the writing flows, split the heading into a default block. You can split a block and then it&#8217;s still going to be a heading.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. Because sometimes when we enter in the middle of the heading and then it creates another H1, let&#8217;s say. It just didn&#8217;t make sense to have&#8230; Why do we want to have two heading one in a row? So yeah, it just makes sense to have when we enter, it automatically becomes a normal text like that.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yeah, a normal paragraph block. Or when you get carried away with writing a headline and say, ah, no, I want to break it and do that as a subheading. Yeah. Yeah. So that&#8217;s a very good fix. You can also now, it fixes the custom color palette. Because that was always a little bit hard to use when you wanted to create new ones.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. I also found this one really useful because sometimes, especially for brands, some brands have that very specific color and by being able to create the custom color palette, it will help us to have a website in our signature color.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Right. Yeah. And this fix actually makes that workflow much smoother and you don&#8217;t have to fiddle around with it too much. And the next one is that for the grid, we talked about the experiment, about the grid interactivity, and it now allows blocks to be positioned in manual mode using drag and drop.\n\n\n\nSo the handing of grid and grid cells is going to be much easier. And even in the manual mode you can use drag and drop to place your blocks on the grid. There were two things that I want to&#8230; There are quite a few documentation PRs that fix or add to the documentation, which is always appreciated.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Documentation</h3>\n\n\n\nThe interactivity API docs now have an addition of the WP-async directive documented. It&#8217;s for the developers when they go out and grab some data from somewhere and how to push that into the website. And then for the Query Loop Block, it clarifies some explanation about the variation examples that are in core, so developers can handle them. And I think that was it, what we have for Gutenberg&#8217;s 18.7. Yes, we are almost through.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>\n\n\n\nWe have one section for the&#8230; What&#8217;s in active development or discussed, and I just wanted to let you know that the GitHub repo for the next default theme can&#8217;t….\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Twenty Twenty Five.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Very good. We did not plan this.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And I connected with Carolina Nymark who created the repo, and she just said that it&#8217;s pretty much right now just to put the placeholders in. Because the release team for 6.7 hasn&#8217;t been announced yet. And the default theme Co leads, will be part of the release team. So we need to wait for that. But if you have any input or any ideas for Twenty Twenty Five, you can definitely create issues there and start and raise your hand if you want to contribute however you want.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: The Twenty Twenty Five will be part of the last release of this year.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Which is WordPress 6.7.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: 6.7. Oh, yes.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Yes. Yeah, it&#8217;s the next release and it will come out in November. But I think the release date is before Thanksgiving, so it&#8217;s November 12th. So it&#8217;s way before Black Friday and all the holidays are going to start. At least in America, between Thanksgiving and New Year, nobody really, everybody shops and not a whole lot of people work.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Yeah. It&#8217;s time for&#8230; Have fun.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, it&#8217;s time to have fun, but also to keep websites stable so the online shopping spray is not interrupted. And because that&#8217;s where most people make the year&#8217;s revenue.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Gift giving time.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: It&#8217;s giving time, it&#8217;s buying time. It&#8217;s Black Friday time, it&#8217;s Cyber Monday time. It&#8217;s all the discounts that come around for that. Yes. Yeah. So I&#8217;m so happy that you were on my show, Maya. Or on our show.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Me, too.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: And it&#8217;s always wonderful to chat with you about WordPress and all the things content creators do with it. So when people want to connect with you, where would they find you?\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: So you can find me on wordpress.org, of course. And then I have LinkedIn as well, and Twitter and Instagram. But lately I&#8217;ve been taking social media time off.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Okay.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: So if anyone wants to get in touch with me, I think wordpress.org. And maybe if you want to read anything related to me, so in training team, we recently developed&#8230; We have a new initiative, so it&#8217;s Contributor Spotlight. So we celebrate the journey of training team contributors. It&#8217;s initiated by Courtney Paulo-Kranzke or Courtney PK, we call her. It started this January, I think. And yeah, you can all read it on the training team made WordPress Blog.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Oh, wonderful, wonderful. I&#8217;m going to put a link in the show notes to that profile.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Thank you.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, thank you for that initiative. It&#8217;s always good to read the stories, contributor stories. And I will add your LinkedIn and your WordPress Slack profile or WordPress Slack account as well to the show so you can all follow up with Maya.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Thank you so much.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: You&#8217;re welcome. As long as the show notes ,dear listeners, will be published on gutenbergtimes.com for WordPress Podcast. This is episode 103. And if you have questions or suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>, that&#8217;s <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. Or just ping me on Twitter like many people do. And if you enjoy the show, please, please leave a review on Apple or Stitcher or whatever your favorite podcast directory is, so other people can find it too. Again, thanks to Maya and thanks for listening, and goodbye.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Thanks to Birgit as well.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Well, thank you.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: It&#8217;s always an honor.\n\n\n\nBirgit Pauli-Haack: Thank you. And a great pleasure for me. All right, this is the outro. Listen to it and I&#8217;ll see you in two weeks or talk to you in two weeks. Bye-Bye.\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani: Bye.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 07 Jul 2024 08:59:49 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:13:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:98:\"Gutenberg Times: Grid Layouts, curate the Editor experience, WordPress 6.6 — Weekend Edition 298\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=29127\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:103:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19927:\"Hi there, \n\n\n\nIt was a fairly normal WordPress week, apart from the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2024/06/29/password-reset-required-for-plugin-authors/\">general password reset for all plugin committers</a> on the repository. That was highly unusual. \n\n\n\nThe release of WordPress 6.6 is moving along right on schedule. <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/news/2024/07/wordpress-6-6-rc2/\">Release candidate 2</a> is out. The video <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF_UJQ0369c\">Watch the Build: How WordPress Release Pages are Created in the Site Editor</a> allows you a look behind the scene of this part of the release process. \n\n\n\nGutenberg 18.7 was also released. Together with my friend Maya, I recorded a Gutenberg changelog episode again, number 103. I just can&#8217;t get my head around that we already recorded over 100 shows. We also added new music.\n\n\n\nThis Weekend Edition has quite a few videos linked on what&#8217;s coming in WordPress 6.6, on Grid layouts, and Interactivity API. Something for everyone. To learn about new features and grasp their impact, it&#8217;s much easier to see them demo&#8217;ed in a video setting or screen share than just learn about it via a blog post or a podcast. \n\n\n\nWishing you a fabulous weekend! \n\n\n\nYours, 💕 Birgit\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\nPS: Thank you to <a href=\"https://x.com/chris_c\">Chris Clarke</a> for sharing his <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/554667b23a/\">Hong Kong Harbor photo</a> on WordPress Photo directory. \n</div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\nTable of Contents\n\n\n\n<ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/#upcoming-events\">Upcoming events</a></li></ol></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/grid-layouts-curate-the-editor-experience-wordpress-6-6-weekend-edition-298/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </a></li></ol>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\nFirst time release lead, <a href=\"https://x.com/kevin940726\">Kai Hao</a>, published Gutenberg plugin version 18.7 and highlighted in his release post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/04/whats-new-in-gutenberg-18-7-03-july/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 18.7? (03 July)</a>, the feature of moving grid items around via drag and drop in manual mode, and new content panels for template parts, allowing developers and users to add descriptions to those sections.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nNadia Maya Ardiani and I reviewed the latest Gutenberg version for our Gutenberg Changelog episode 103. We also discussed the latest learning path courses by the training team, upcoming events and WordPress 6.6. The episode will be published over the weekend and arrive shortly after at your favorite podcast app. It was lovely to chat with my friend, Maya from Indonesia again.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"185\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Screenshot-2024-07-04-at-17.07.21.png?resize=652%2C185&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29190\" /></a>\n\n\n\n🎙️ Latest episode: <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-104-block-themes-gutenberg-18-8/\">Gutenberg Changelog #104 – Block Themes, Gutenberg 18.8, WordPress 6.6</a> with special guest Carolina Nymark\n\n\n\nTammie Lister <a href=\"https://x.com/karmatosed/status/1808098791708315820\">wrote on X </a>(former Twitter): &#8220;Being sponsored to work on the WordPress default theme task force has been one of the most rewarding contribution areas for me in a while. I wrote a post about what has gone on so far. Thank you to everyone who supported me and collaborated.&#8221; You can read more about the project on her <a href=\"https://binatethoughts.com/update-on-default-theme-focus/\">Update on default theme focus</a>.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nThe work on the default theme <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/twentytwentyfive\">Twenty Twenty-Five</a> has begun with a fresh GitHub Repo. There isn&#8217;t much information available yet. After checking in with Caroline Nymark, who created the repo, I learned that the release squad for WordPress 6.7 hasn&#8217;t been announced; the repo is more a placeholder until the new theme leads are picked.\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"upcoming-events\">Upcoming events</h3>\n\n\n\nJuly 8th, 2024 at 16:00 UTC &nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/hallway-hangout-section-styles-and-other-block-style-variation-updates/\">Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates</a>&nbsp;with Justin Tadlock and others: &#8220;At a technical level, the expanded tool set does not add too many new concepts to learn. However, in practice, working with these updates can present challenges and may even have you rethinking your approach to theme design.&#8221; says the description. \n\n\n\nAs already mentioned in <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/796-block-themes-games-a-changing-for-custom-fields-more-dev-notes-weekend-edition-297/#upcoming\">Weekend Edition 297</a>\n\n\n\nJuly 9th, 2024, 15:00 UTC –&nbsp;Developer Hours:&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301834541/\">Editor unification and extensibility in WordPress 6.6</a>.\n\n\n\nJuly 23, 2024, at 15:00 UTC&nbsp;<a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/301860423/\">Developer Hours: Do you really need a custom block? Let’s explore alternatives.</a>&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\nIsabel Brison showed us in a Hallway Hangout how to work with the Grid block and what will be in WordPress 6.6. After answering questions, Brison also showed us what she is working on in a Gutenberg Experiment. Learn more via the post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/recap-hallway-hangout-exploring-grid-layouts/\">Recap Hallway Hangout: Exploring Grid Layouts</a>. \n\n\n\nYou can also try things out via this <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wordpress/blueprints/trunk/blueprints/grid-variations/blueprint.json\">Playground instance</a>. The experiment is already enabled. \n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>Find summary, transcript shared resources via the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2024/07/01/recap-hallway-hangout-exploring-grid-layouts/\">Recap post</a>\n\n\n\nAnne McCarthy published videos on YouTube around WordPress 6.6. for content creators and site builders.\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdh1hKAuXSQ\">Negative Margins, Grid Block, &amp; Custom Shadows</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidqPCJhze8\">The power of a shared publishing flow &amp; unified extensibility APIs</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhvEhnjbdyM\">Bringing a Modern Patterns Experience to Classic Themes</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n<div width=\"100%\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nBud Kraus selected for you the <a href=\"https://www.hostinger.com/blog/wordpress-6-6-preview\">6 Hot Changes Coming to WordPress 6.6</a> on the Hostinger Blog. He highlights Pattern overrides, the Grid block, Sections Styles, Data views, Pattern management for classic themes and negative margins. Kraus provides screenshots and instructions on how to use the features. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nYou might have waited for the video of WordCamp Europe&#8217;s edition of the Speed Build Challenge live on stage. Jamie Marsland published the actual Speed Build challenge and cut in from the Matt&#8217;s Summer Update and the Q &amp; A after. <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVW4vdBdtuk&t=116s\">Epic Showdown: Who will win WordCamp Europe&#8217;s First-Ever WordPress Speed Build?</a> with Jessica Lyschik and Rich Tabor.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nStephanie Pi just announced <a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/06/18/woocommerce-9-0-our-most-accessible-checkout-and-much-more/\">WooCommerce 9.0: Our most accessible checkout and much more</a>. It comes with an improved check-out experience, the next iteration of Product blocks, new REST-API endpoints for the refunds and much more. Actually, <a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/06/20/woocommerce-9-0-1-dot-release/\">WooCommerce 9.0.1</a> came out a few days later, fixing what caused a fatal error on installations. \n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://developer.woocommerce.com/2024/06/18/woocommerce-9-0-our-most-accessible-checkout-and-much-more/\"><img width=\"652\" height=\"416\" tabindex=\"0\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/image.png?resize=652%2C416&ssl=1\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-29184\" /></a>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\nCarlo Daniele, blogger at Kinsta, has all the pertinent information about WordPress 6.6 in his post <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/wordpress-6-6/\">What’s new in WordPress 6.6: Pattern overrides, Block Bindings API, Data Views, new design tools, and much more!</a> You&#8217;ll find short explanations, screenshots, and code examples on how to implement some new features into your projects.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\nOne of my favorite plugins lately is the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/create-block-theme/\">Create Block Theme</a> plugin. The team working on it just released version 2.3&nbsp;\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Add image credits edit capabilities to the edit theme modal by <a href=\"https://github.com/matiasbenedetto\">@matiasbenedetto</a> in <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/pull/662\">#662</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Make external links translatable by <a href=\"https://github.com/t-hamano\">@t-hamano</a> in <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/pull/663\">#663</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Add an about section in the editor by <a href=\"https://github.com/matiasbenedetto\">@matiasbenedetto</a> in <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/pull/667\">#667</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Landing Page: Improve design by <a href=\"https://github.com/t-hamano\">@t-hamano</a> in <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/pull/673\">#673</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Persist font settings when cloning a theme by <a href=\"https://github.com/mikachan\">@mikachan</a> in <a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/create-block-theme/pull/678\">#678</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2024&#8221;</a>&nbsp; A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a>&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\nNick Diego collected <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2024/07/04/15-ways-to-curate-the-wordpress-editing-experience/\">15 ways to curate the WordPress editing experience</a> and explained each of them in his latest post for the WordPress Developer Blog. Diego covered all possible ways from disabling parts of the design tools, Block directory or Pattern directory to Openverse. Also, how to unregister core block styles and variations or formatting options for RichText blocks. If you build bespoke themes for client projects, some of this might be quite useful to make the block editor a streamlined experience for the client&#8217;s content creators, and stay true to branding and design requirements.\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor. </h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/perezcarreno\">Armando J. Perez-Carreno</a> had a two-part conversation with Seth Rubenstein from the Pew Research Center, on how he and his team use the Interactivity API for their website. Rubenstein demonstrated the use of facets and the Interactivity API in creating dynamic and interactive blocks, as well as the concept of &#8216;atomic&#8217; blocks. <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otFjPLOWWsc\"></a>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUXoZQRVJcY\">The Interactivity API in Action, a conversation with Seth Rubenstein</a><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERXUMh1S2ws\"></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDkvVTmVSRQ\">Interactivity API: Getting Creative with Atomic Blocks</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://x.com/olawanle_joel\">Joel Olawanle</a>, technical writer at Kinsta, set out to help developers <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/react-19-wordpress/\">Preparing for React 19: a guide for WordPress 6.6 users</a>. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nMagdalena Paciorek gave a talk on <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2024/07/03/building-custom-post-types-with-blocks/\">Building custom post types with&nbsp;blocks</a> at WordCamp Europe. The recording made it to WordPress TV for your perusal. In this session, she took a look at how to create bespoke WordPress websites that make use of custom post types directly in the site editor. Paciorek also explored how to build templates with blocks and examined different ways to extend the editor, including the use of block filters, block formats, custom block styles, block patterns, inner blocks, block locking, interactivity API, building our own blocks, and more. \n\n\n\n		\n			<div class=\"jetpack-videopress-player__wrapper\"> <div class=\"toolbelt-video-wrapper\"></div></div>\n			\n			\n		\n		\n\n\n<a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a> Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. \n\n\n\nNow also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience\n\n\n\n<img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" />\n\n\n\nQuestions? Suggestions? Ideas? Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph.\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\nFor questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nFeatured Image: <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/554667b23a/\">Hong Kong Harbor</a> photo by <a href=\"https://x.com/chris_c\">Chris Clarke</a>, found in the WordPress Photos space. \n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\nDon&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? \n\n\n<form class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"> Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input type=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" name=\"ngl_email\" id=\"ngl_email\" /></div></div><button type=\"submit\" class=\"ngl-form-button\">Subscribe</button>We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" id=\"ngl_list_id\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input type=\"hidden\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" id=\"ngl_double_optin\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 06 Jul 2024 04:20:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:11:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:1:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"HeroPress: An Essay From Japan, Interviews From Italy, Photos From Romania!\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:29:\"https://heropress.com/?p=7226\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:189:\"https://heropress.com/an-essay-from-japan-interviews-from-italy-photos-from-romania/#utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=an-essay-from-japan-interviews-from-italy-photos-from-romania\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:12318:\"<img width=\"1024\" height=\"576\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/1566614a4ecc542f1.48731483-1024x576.jpeg\" class=\"attachment-large size-large wp-post-image\" alt=\"Colorful sunset at Sugar Beach, Costa Rica.\" /><div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-7226_5cc667-2b\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_83e99e-fb alignfull has-theme-palette9-background-color kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-2-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_ac77f0-9d\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/freed-from-the-soil-lab/\" class=\"kb-advanced-image-link\"><img width=\"300\" height=\"300\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/2015-WCORL-professional-300x300.jpg\" alt=\"Jesse Petersen\" class=\"kb-img wp-image-755\" /></a>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_f0688f-e1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\nThis week&#8217;s banner image is in memory of <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/freed-from-the-soil-lab/\">Jesse Petersen</a> who left us on this date in 2017. Godspeed Jesse.\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-7226_cec507-06\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_d1d005-3e alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_f7f055-32 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_fa34bf-0f wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\">HeroPress At WordCamp Europe 2024</h2>\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://europe.wordcamp.org/2024/accessibility-and-inclusivity/\"><img width=\"1024\" height=\"296\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/wceu_updates-1024x296.jpg\" alt=\"WCEU Latest Updates\" class=\"wp-image-6680\" /></a>\n\n\n\nWell, WordCamp came and went. We had a wonderful time, and like always met some people I&#8217;ve known for years, but never expected to get to meet in real life.\n\n\n\nWe did 4 interviews, check out these amazing people:\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_ef682a-a5 alignfull has-theme-palette9-background-color kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-2-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_86e4c2-f5\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/voices-of-wordcamp-europe-karolina-vyskocilova/\" class=\"kb-advanced-image-link\"><img width=\"768\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/IMG_8348-768x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Karolina pointing at her name on the contributor wall\" class=\"kb-img wp-image-6929\" /></a>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_b49a16-9f\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_181d04-ef wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/voices-of-wordcamp-europe-karolina-vyskocilova/\">Karolína Vyskočilová</a></h3>\n\n\n\nKarolina is from Prague and has been active in the WordPress community for many years. Despite that fact, I had never heard of her, which is one of the main points of these interviews. Find all the new people!\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/wceu2024_karolina.mp3\">Here&#8217;s the audio from our talk.</a>\n\n\n\n\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_7c50a9-ba alignfull has-theme-palette9-background-color kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-2-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_1f8bb5-b7\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<img width=\"1024\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/aida-1024x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Aida Correa-Jackson\" class=\"kb-img wp-image-7089\" />\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_677a35-3b\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_6cd39f-8c wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/voices-of-wordcamp-europe-aida-correa-jackson/\">Aida Correa-Jackson</a></h3>\n\n\n\nAida is from Florida, but grew up in Brooklyn New York. She works hard on Kids Camp, and I won&#8217;t spoil the rest of it for you.\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/wceu2024_aida.mp3\">Here&#8217;s the audio from our talk.</a>\n\n\n\n\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_fbc5c2-04 alignfull has-theme-palette9-background-color kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-2-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_94fcc7-79\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<img width=\"768\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/IMG_5117-768x1024.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"kb-img wp-image-7229\" />\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_8d7f86-12\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_9d47e0-82 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/voices-of-wordcamp-europe-josephine-rahissa-ngo-nonog-and-herman-ngembu/\">Josephine (Rahissa) Ngo Nonog and Herman Ngembu</a></h3>\n\n\n\nRahissa and Herman came to Italy from Cameroon and someone suggested they try WordCamp!\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/wceu2024_josephine_herman.mp3\">Here&#8217;s the audio from 4.</a>\n\n\n\nJosephine (Rahissa) Ngo Nonog and Herman Ngembu Interview\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_87b923-87 alignfull has-theme-palette9-background-color kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-2-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_68abf8-22\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<img width=\"576\" height=\"1024\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/thabo_topher-576x1024.jpg\" alt=\"Thabo Tswana and Topher\" class=\"kb-img wp-image-7194\" />\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_43cf02-5d\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h3 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_02c072-53 wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/voices-of-wordcamp-europe-thabo-tswana/\">Thabo Tswana</a></h3>\n\n\n\nThabo is from Zimbabwe originally, but since doing an Essay has had the means to move to South Africa!\n\n\n\nHere&#8217;s the audio from our talk.\n\n\n\n\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div></div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-7226_b7d0f5-fb\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_019df4-d1 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_295130-1d inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_f693a5-0a wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://heropress.com/\">HeroPress.com</a> &#8211; <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/a-welcoming-community-that-embraces-authenticity/\">A welcoming community that embraces authenticity – 本物らしさを受け入れる温かいコミュニティ</a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n<a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/a-welcoming-community-that-embraces-authenticity/\"><img width=\"600\" height=\"600\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/ben-2023-square-extra-small-1-scaled-1.avif\" alt=\"Ben Evans\" class=\"wp-image-7135\" /></a>\n\n\n\nBen Evans had a love for teaching that he was able to leverage in the WordPress community when the pandemic hit.\n\n\n\nI had opportunities to be part of educational projects within Automattic. I coached Japanese support agents, created internal training materials, and developed a new onboarding program for new employees. These experiences rekindled my love for education.\n\n\n\nBen&#8217;s essay is <a href=\"https://heropress.com/essays/a-welcoming-community-that-embraces-authenticity/\">available</a> on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress.com</a>.\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-spacer aligncenter kt-block-spacer-7226_c424c9-73\"><div class=\"kt-block-spacer kt-block-spacer-halign-center\"><hr class=\"kt-divider\" /></div></div>\n\n\n<div class=\"kb-row-layout-wrap kb-row-layout-id7226_f839c6-b2 alignnone kt-row-has-bg wp-block-kadence-rowlayout\"><div class=\"kt-row-column-wrap kt-has-1-columns kt-row-layout-equal kt-tab-layout-inherit kt-mobile-layout-row kt-row-valign-top kb-theme-content-width\">\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-kadence-column kadence-column7226_72e536-04 inner-column-1\"><div class=\"kt-inside-inner-col\">\n<h2 class=\"kt-adv-heading7226_2e134d-fe wp-block-kadence-advancedheading\"><a href=\"https://hallwaychats.com\">WPPhotos.Info</a></h2>\n\n\n\n\n\n<img width=\"200\" height=\"300\" src=\"https://heropress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/97066503502793e94.69715830-scaled-1-200x300.jpg\" alt=\"Kid on bike with yellow helmet on gravel, bird-eye view\" class=\"wp-image-7234\" />\n\n\n\nThis week&#8217;s <a href=\"https://wpphotos.info\">WPPhotos Info</a> is called &#8220;<a href=\"https://wpphotos.info/yellow-helmet-from-bird-eye-view/\">Yellow helmet from bird-eye view</a>&#8220;.\n\n\n\nThis photo was taken by&nbsp;<a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/psdtohtmlguru/\">Hapiuc Robert</a> on an iPhone 15, wide camera. In the photo is his daughter riding her bike. He used to be a professional photographer and he takes advantage of every opportunity to get a good photograph.\n\n\n\nThe photo it’s an instant photo, he just takes out the phone, plane it above her and press the shutter button a couple of times.&nbsp;\n\n\n\nHis taught was that her helmet will look amazing a bird eye view, and it does! The photo was taken around the house on a gravel road.\n\n\n\nRead more of the story at WP<a href=\"https://wpphotos.info/yellow-helmet-from-bird-eye-view/\">https://wpphotos.info/yellow-helmet-from-bird-eye-view/</a>Photos.info!\n</div></div>\n\n</div></div>\n\n\nThe banner at the top of this post is a <a href=\"https://creativecommons.org/share-your-work/public-domain/cc0/\">CC0</a> licensed <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/photo/1566614a4e/\">photo</a> by <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/author/pastelito/\">Ericka Barboza</a> from the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/photos/\">WordPress Photo Directory</a>.\n\n\n\n\n\nThat&#8217;s it for this week! If you&#8217;d like to get this post in your email every week, <a href=\"https://heropressnetwork.com/newsletter\">make sure you sign up</a>!\nThe post <a href=\"https://heropress.com/an-essay-from-japan-interviews-from-italy-photos-from-romania/\">An Essay From Japan, Interviews From Italy, Photos From Romania!</a> appeared first on <a href=\"https://heropress.com\">HeroPress</a>.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 05 Jul 2024 21:51:47 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:\"type\";i:128;s:7:\"headers\";O:48:\"WpOrg\\Requests\\Utility\\CaseInsensitiveDictionary\":1:{s:7:\"\0*\0data\";a:9:{s:6:\"server\";s:5:\"nginx\";s:4:\"date\";s:29:\"Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:55:16 GMT\";s:12:\"content-type\";s:8:\"text/xml\";s:13:\"last-modified\";s:29:\"Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:45:44 GMT\";s:4:\"vary\";s:15:\"Accept-Encoding\";s:15:\"x-frame-options\";s:10:\"SAMEORIGIN\";s:16:\"content-encoding\";s:4:\"gzip\";s:7:\"alt-svc\";s:19:\"h3=\":443\"; ma=86400\";s:4:\"x-nc\";s:9:\"HIT ord 1\";}}s:5:\"build\";s:14:\"20211220193300\";}','off');
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09:36:21','',0,'https://opengown.vajira.co/index.php/2024/06/21/wp-global-styles-twentytwentyfour/',0,'wp_global_styles','',0),(7,1,'2024-06-21 09:39:33','2024-06-21 09:39:33','\n\n\n<main class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"margin-top:0\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center is-style-asterisk\">opg</h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center has-x-large-font-size\"></h1>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<div style=\"height:1.25rem\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:1.25rem\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-base-2-background-color has-background\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น1</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น2</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น3</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น4</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น5</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น6</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center is-style-asterisk\">An array of resources</h2>\n\n\n\nOur comprehensive suite of professional services caters to a diverse clientele, ranging from homeowners to commercial developers.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading is-style-asterisk\">Études Architect App</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul style=\"line-height:1.75\" class=\"is-style-checkmark-list\">\n<li>Collaborate with fellow architects.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Showcase your projects.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Experience the world of architecture.</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-style-rounded\"><img src=\"https://opengown.vajira.co/wp-content/themes/twentytwentyfour/assets/images/tourist-and-building.webp\" alt=\"Tourist taking photo of a building\"/></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-style-rounded\"><img src=\"https://opengown.vajira.co/wp-content/themes/twentytwentyfour/assets/images/windows.webp\" alt=\"Windows of a building in Nuremberg, Germany\"/></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading is-style-asterisk\">Études Newsletter</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul style=\"line-height:1.75\" class=\"is-style-checkmark-list\">\n<li>A world of thought-provoking articles.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Case studies that celebrate architecture.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Exclusive access to design insights.</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-base-color has-contrast-background-color has-text-color has-background\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n\n			“Études has saved us thousands of hours of work and has unlocked insights we never thought possible.”\n		\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-thumbnail is-resized has-custom-border\"><img alt=\"\" style=\"border-radius:100px;aspect-ratio:1;object-fit:cover;width:60px\"/></figure>\n\n\n\nAnnie Steiner\n\n\n\nCEO, Greenprint\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading alignwide has-x-large-font-size\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);line-height:1\">Watch, Read, Listen</h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-query alignwide\">\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-contrast-3-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-contrast-3-background-color has-background alignwide is-style-wide\"/>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:72%\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:28%\"></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nNo posts were found.\n\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide has-base-2-background-color has-background\" style=\"border-radius:16px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center has-x-large-font-size\">Join 900+ subscribers</h2>\n\n\n\nStay in the loop with everything you need to know.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\">Sign up</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</main>\n\n\n','Blog Home','Displays the latest posts as either the site homepage or as the \"Posts page\" as defined under reading settings. If it exists, the Front Page template overrides this template when posts are shown on the homepage.','publish','closed','closed','','home','','','2024-06-21 10:14:16','2024-06-21 10:14:16','',0,'https://opengown.vajira.co/index.php/2024/06/21/home/',0,'wp_template','',0),(9,2,'2024-06-21 10:14:16','2024-06-21 10:14:16','\n\n\n<main class=\"wp-block-group\" style=\"margin-top:0\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center is-style-asterisk\">opg</h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<h1 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center has-x-large-font-size\"></h1>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<div style=\"height:1.25rem\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:1.25rem\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-base-2-background-color has-background\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น1</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น2</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น3</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น4</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น5</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-left is-style-asterisk has-body-font-family has-medium-font-size\" style=\"font-style:normal;font-weight:600\">มิ้น6</h3>\n\n\n\nExperience the fusion of imagination and expertise with Études Architectural Solutions.\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center is-style-asterisk\">An array of resources</h2>\n\n\n\nOur comprehensive suite of professional services caters to a diverse clientele, ranging from homeowners to commercial developers.\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading is-style-asterisk\">Études Architect App</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul style=\"line-height:1.75\" class=\"is-style-checkmark-list\">\n<li>Collaborate with fellow architects.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Showcase your projects.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Experience the world of architecture.</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-style-rounded\"><img src=\"https://opengown.vajira.co/wp-content/themes/twentytwentyfour/assets/images/tourist-and-building.webp\" alt=\"Tourist taking photo of a building\"/></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column\" style=\"flex-basis:50%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large is-style-rounded\"><img src=\"https://opengown.vajira.co/wp-content/themes/twentytwentyfour/assets/images/windows.webp\" alt=\"Windows of a building in Nuremberg, Germany\"/></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:40%\">\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading is-style-asterisk\">Études Newsletter</h3>\n\n\n\n<ul style=\"line-height:1.75\" class=\"is-style-checkmark-list\">\n<li>A world of thought-provoking articles.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Case studies that celebrate architecture.</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Exclusive access to design insights.</li>\n</ul>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull has-base-color has-contrast-background-color has-text-color has-background\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--60)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n\n			“Études has saved us thousands of hours of work and has unlocked insights we never thought possible.”\n		\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image aligncenter size-thumbnail is-resized has-custom-border\"><img alt=\"\" style=\"border-radius:100px;aspect-ratio:1;object-fit:cover;width:60px\"/></figure>\n\n\n\nAnnie Steiner\n\n\n\nCEO, Greenprint\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading alignwide has-x-large-font-size\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);line-height:1\">Watch, Read, Listen</h2>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-query alignwide\">\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-text-color has-contrast-3-color has-alpha-channel-opacity has-contrast-3-background-color has-background alignwide is-style-wide\"/>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns alignwide are-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"margin-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20);margin-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--20)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:72%\"></div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-vertically-aligned-center\" style=\"flex-basis:28%\"></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--30)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nNo posts were found.\n\n</div>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignfull\" style=\"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide has-base-2-background-color has-background\" style=\"border-radius:16px;padding-top:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-right:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50);padding-bottom:var(--wp--preset--spacing--40);padding-left:var(--wp--preset--spacing--50)\">\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading has-text-align-center has-x-large-font-size\">Join 900+ subscribers</h2>\n\n\n\nStay in the loop with everything you need to know.\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-buttons\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-button\"><a class=\"wp-block-button__link wp-element-button\">Sign up</a></div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:var(--wp--preset--spacing--10)\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"></div>\n</div>\n</div>\n</main>\n\n\n','Blog Home','Displays the latest posts as either the site homepage or as the \"Posts page\" as defined under reading settings. 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